2014-2015 NC Hoops: Duke Rules the Road

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
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Dec 22, 2005
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Seriously tho 10 point lead with under 4 min to go
 

DukeSox

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Dec 22, 2005
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DURHAM, N.C. -- North Carolina fans are a lot like Kentucky and Kansas fans. UNC's supporter base isn't content with just getting into the NCAA tournament, or even with reaching the second weekend. 

They want national championships. They expect Final Four appearances. 

But even in the shadow of Wednesday night's loss to Duke -- in which the Tar Heels looked like the better team for much of the game -- the chances are beginning to look more and more remote that UNC will hang banners in the Roy Williams Era. For the third straight season, the Heels are not going to finish first or second in the ACC. For the third straight season, barring an unlikely run of consistency over the next month, North Carolina (18-8) will finish with double-digit losses. Not since Frank McGuire struggled at the beginning of his tenure in the mid-1950's has a single UNC coach presided over three consecutive seasons of 10 or more losses.
http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/jeff-goodman/post?id=4738&ex_cid=InsiderTwitter_GoodmanCarolinaRoyWilliams
 
Summary (ripped from another board):
 
Reasons for decline:
-No star power
-Can't recruit the big boys anymore

Reasons to not be optimistic:
-RoyWill is old
-Academic scandal
-10 losses in the last two seasons (making it three in a row if UNC loses two more games, something that hasn't been done since the 1950s)
 

Greg29fan

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Some of that's true (Roy's also four years younger than Coach K is though) but people were writing and saying the same thing about Duke when UNC had Tyler, Ty, Danny, etc. and won four straight in Durham and a National Title.  It all goes in cycles.  UNC still has a chance to have a good season (who would have picked UCONN to win the title at this time last year?) and should have everybody back next year.
 

DukeSox

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Dec 22, 2005
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I agree.  The everybody back next year thing is terrifying.  Fuck, i thought Paige was a senior.  
 

tims4wins

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Greg29fan said:
Some of that's true (Roy's also four years younger than Coach K is though) but people were writing and saying the same thing about Duke when UNC had Tyler, Ty, Danny, etc. and won four straight in Durham and a National Title.  It all goes in cycles.  UNC still has a chance to have a good season (who would have picked UCONN to win the title at this time last year?) and should have everybody back next year.
 
While true, overall Duke wasn't nearly as down as UNC over the last 3 years. During the period of time where UNC won 4 straight in Cameron, Duke lost a total of 28 games.
 
UNC has already lost 29 games over the past 3 years.
 

Greg29fan

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tims4wins said:
 
While true, overall Duke wasn't nearly as down as UNC over the last 3 years. During the period of time where UNC won 4 straight in Cameron, Duke lost a total of 28 games.
 
UNC has already lost 29 games over the past 3 years.
 
Fair point, but I don't think they've really been that "down," despite the loss totals.  Two years ago they made the ACC tourney final and lost to a really good Miami team, and even last year they beat you guys, Michigan State, and Louisville just for three.  And they've won a tournament game both years, which as you guys know, isn't always the easiest thing to do.  And they signed a fantastic recruiting class last year (top five by all the recruiting gurus) so the notion that Roy can't get elite guys to come to Chapel Hill any more I find a little far-fetched too.
 
UNC has had some really weird/unexpected stuff happen too.  Their best player last year doesn't get to play b/c of eligibility stuff, Reggie Bullock leaves when nobody expected him to, Kendall Marshall leaves when nobody expected to, this year a whole pile of injuries (Paige playing through plantar fascitis, Joel Berry gets hurt, Theo Pinson, Desmond Hubert).  Roy has had to have JV guys and former walk-ons come in just so they can practice; that's not going to help you get better as the season goes on.
 
I feel pretty confident that if Kendall doesn't get hurt that UNC wins the title in 2012 (or at least makes the final against Kentucky) and none of this UNC is never going to win again stuff doesn't even come up.
 

DukeSox

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrsCZE91aN8
 

RedOctober3829

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Greg29fan said:
 
Fair point, but I don't think they've really been that "down," despite the loss totals.  Two years ago they made the ACC tourney final and lost to a really good Miami team, and even last year they beat you guys, Michigan State, and Louisville just for three.  And they've won a tournament game both years, which as you guys know, isn't always the easiest thing to do.  And they signed a fantastic recruiting class last year (top five by all the recruiting gurus) so the notion that Roy can't get elite guys to come to Chapel Hill any more I find a little far-fetched too.
 
UNC has had some really weird/unexpected stuff happen too.  Their best player last year doesn't get to play b/c of eligibility stuff, Reggie Bullock leaves when nobody expected him to, Kendall Marshall leaves when nobody expected to, this year a whole pile of injuries (Paige playing through plantar fascitis, Joel Berry gets hurt, Theo Pinson, Desmond Hubert).  Roy has had to have JV guys and former walk-ons come in just so they can practice; that's not going to help you get better as the season goes on.
 
I feel pretty confident that if Kendall doesn't get hurt that UNC wins the title in 2012 (or at least makes the final against Kentucky) and none of this UNC is never going to win again stuff doesn't even come up.
Sounds like the Patriots with Gronk in 2011.
 

Greg29fan

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Was really cool to see UNC run the four corners to start the game today (and got an easy backdoor layup out of it)
 
 

DukeSox

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Running a play that was the reason for a literal change to the rules of how the game is played, because its implementation made the game so shitty, hardly seems an honor. Not to even mention he ripped it from a D2 coach.
 

Greg29fan

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DukeSox said:
Running a play that was the reason for a literal change to the rules of how the game is played, because its implementation made the game so shitty, hardly seems an honor. Not to even mention he ripped it from a D2 coach.
 
I dunno, having to change the entire rule book b/c of the effectiveness of an offensive set is pretty cool to me.
 

Drocca

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Jul 21, 2005
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DukeSox said:
Running a play that was the reason for a literal change to the rules of how the game is played, because its implementation made the game so shitty, hardly seems an honor. Not to even mention he ripped it from a D2 coach.
I hope, when Coach K passes, I don't act/sound like this.
 

BostonFanInCanesLand

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Roy thought more UNC fans should have recognized the play (and held up 4 fingers like he).
 
https://twitter.com/_andrewcarter/status/569230914330492929
 



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Roy Williams says "we need some dadgum help" from fans. With correct spelling of "banshee," his full comments:


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Greg29fan said:
Was really cool to see UNC run the four corners to start the game today (and got an easy backdoor layup out of it)
 
 

Greg29fan

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Roy gets on his soapbox about the fans about once every three years.  I think he wanted to make sure it was loud for NC State Tuesday night too.
 

DukeSox

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Dec 22, 2005
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Thank you ND for losing, popping Duke up to #2 in the ACC and on the other side of UVA in the conference tourney.  
 

minischwab

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Fewest Pts for UNC ever in the Dean Dome.  Whoops. 
1st road win for NCST vs UNC since 2003, 1st when UNC was ranked since 1998!
 
Edit:
Also, anyone find tire marks on Meeks' back?  Thrown under the bus:
http://m.fayobserver.com/blogs/sports/acc_basketball/unc-s-offense-has-historically-bad-night-in-home-loss/article_453cbf4e-bca5-11e4-994e-ebefe4ce8627.html?mode=jqm
 
Williams initially used the phrase "silly poise" to describe his team’s late-game execution. He immediately issued a correction.
"No poise is what it was," Williams said. "I've never had a play where our big guy shoots the 3-point shot unless he could really shoot 3s, like Joe Wolf and Tyler Zeller and those guys who could do it. Kennedy didn't know what to do, so he shot it. We had a set play called twice in a row and didn't execute that, so it's the coach's fault."
 

tims4wins

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Fewest ever points in the Dean Dome? Holy smokes.
 
When Roy left KU for UNC, I (along with the rest of the planet) figured he would coach there until he chose to retire, and UNC would be among the elite every year. I never imagined that he could possibly have a hot seat and be forced out. But I think the seat is definitely warming up...
 

tims4wins

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DukeSox said:
Thank you ND for losing, popping Duke up to #2 in the ACC and on the other side of UVA in the conference tourney.  
 
Yup we are pretty much a lock for a top 3 seed, and probably top 2. UVA finishes with 3 out of 4 on the road so swooping in for the 1 seed is still a possibility, although I think we are gonna lose at UNC.
 

DukeSox

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I don't think we lose at UNC.  Duke's freshmen were rattled in that game given their first exposure to the rivalry, Okafor was hurt, etc.  I think they clean things up and play a smoother game at UNC.  Not a blowout, but I could see a game like this NC State game - comfortable lead that gets tight near the end but never really in doubt. 
 

tims4wins

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Let's face it, who knows with this rivalry. When we got up 13 in the first game I thought we would run away with it. I've come to learn to expect anything.
 

Greg29fan

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tims4wins said:
Fewest ever points in the Dean Dome? Holy smokes.
 
When Roy left KU for UNC, I (along with the rest of the planet) figured he would coach there until he chose to retire, and UNC would be among the elite every year. I never imagined that he could possibly have a hot seat and be forced out. But I think the seat is definitely warming up...
 
Roy is not on the hot seat but boy is this team frustrating.
 

DukeSox

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apparantly VT is a 3 point shooting team now, who knew?
 

TheDeuce222

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That Virginia Tech team is going to be tough to contend with in a year or two.  Have not closed any games out this year, but they have given both UVA and Duke all they want in Blacksburg.  Seth Allen was a very nice player at Maryland as a freshman, and he joins the team next year (redshirting as a transfer this year), with a couple of impressive recruits as well, including Chris Clarke, a borderline top 50 guy who could be a prolific scorer.  Of course, Virginia brings nearly everyone back, Duke brings in Jeter and Kennard, Carolina brings everyone back, Louisville has a few good recruits.  Should be another year with excellent teams at the top, but I could see Virginia Tech as a bubble NCAA team next year.  
 

DukeSox

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How about that FSU guy last night?  Holy shit.
 

tims4wins

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Will never forget that one. My sophomore year, the National Championship year. I remember basically giving up on the game and starting to change into clothes to go out in - it was a Saturday night. J-Will drives for 2, whatever, still down 8. Steal the inbounds, bury a 3, ok, I guess the game isn't over, but still down 5 and likely have to foul. Drew Nicholas somehow misses two, J-Will brings it up, and fires up the first open look he sees - I was thinking, have a good possession, get a good look, any bucket you can, and when he shot it I was all "no no no YES YES YES". Then of course Duke steals it again, got it to Dunleavy with a wide open 3 that for sure was going to fall, but it didn't. Then a couple of ballsy free throws from Nate James. And one last defensive stand before OT. Just awesome.
 

tims4wins

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Been saying that since late December. Feel like it is 50-50 we make it to the second weekend and maybe 25% we make it to regional final.
 

SuperManny

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minischwab said:
https://okafortheory.wordpress.com

These numbers are alarming for Duke. Defense clearly better without Okafor. But the offense is too? Uh oh, I smell an early exit.
 
I find it hard to believe that Duke is better off with Okafor on the bench. He's so efficient offensively although he is a huge liability at the end of close games due to his horrible free throw percentage. I'd like to see these same calculations run against every player on the team to see if they pass the smell test. If they come back with Plumlee as the most important player on the team then I'm completely out on it as a statistic. 
 
I think Duke will be fine in the tournament and would think they will make at least the Elite 8. Literately no one can stop Okafor offensively. 
 

minischwab

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I think the offensive stats are skewed by the 1st half of the home notre dame game when they shot lights out. But the defenive stats are not wrong. I agree they need him to play well to make a tournament run, but plumlee needs more 2nd half minutes when stops become a priority.
 

DukeSox

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Dec 22, 2005
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SuperManny said:
 
I find it hard to believe that Duke is better off with Okafor on the bench. He's so efficient offensively although he is a huge liability at the end of close games due to his horrible free throw percentage. I'd like to see these same calculations run against every player on the team to see if they pass the smell test. If they come back with Plumlee as the most important player on the team then I'm completely out on it as a statistic. 
 
I think Duke will be fine in the tournament and would think they will make at least the Elite 8. Literately no one can stop Okafor offensively. 
The point is the guards are EVEN MORE efficient offensively - turn it over less, and can shoot FTs.
 

DukeSox

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Dec 22, 2005
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Fuck I hate that article because it's absolutely true
 

DukeSox

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Greg29fan said:
Duke's a little smelly at the foul line
 
or maybe more Okafor is a lot smelly.
Okafor is a clown
 

DukeSox

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Dec 22, 2005
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Just realized that unless UNC wins both the ACC tourney and the NCAA a tourney, they will finish with at least 10 losses again.
 

tims4wins

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DukeSox said:
Just realized that unless UNC wins both the ACC tourney and the NCAA a tourney, they will finish with at least 10 losses again.
 
They lost 10+ in 2002-2004 but with different coaches. As noted above this will be the first time in like 60 years that the same coach has 3 straight 10+ loss seasons.