Liverpool had to play their 3rd string keeper in an FA Cup semi at Wembley a few years ago thanks to the top 2 being sent off within a week of each other.lars10 said:
2014-15 Champions League: the Quixotic Quest to Qualify
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As an aside, does anyone with directv have a clever way to record all champions league matches on the DVR? Right now I have to manually record each one but based on the way they categorize the games I can't figure out how to get a "season pass" for them (Europa league same thing).
UEFA is going to change the seeding rules for the Champions League next year. Instead of the eight teams with the highest UEFA coefficients, Pot 1 will consist of the winners of the seven biggest leagues (currently England, Spain, Germany, Italy, France, Portugal, and Russia) and the previous years UCL champion. Its not yet clear what happens if, as is likely to happen relatively frequently, the previous years' champion is also a league winner.
The big winners are clubs like Zenit/CSKA, Juventus/Roma, and Porto/Benfica, who will get into Pot 1 by winning their national competitions. Some of these teams - especially the Portuguese ones - currently have high UEFA rankings anyway, largely due to their recent performance in the Europe League. But those rankings were probably not sustainable in the long run so having an auto-entry into Pot 1 is a boon.
The big losers here are clubs in England and Spain, which had been accustomed to having at least two and often three spots in Pot 1. A club like Arsenal would seem to be the biggest loser, given its longtime standing in Pot 1 without having won the league, but Arsenal were quite likely to drop out of Pot 1 anyway next year. Clubs like City and (when they return to the competition) United might be short term beneficiaries, given that their current UEFA coefficients aren't good enough for Pot 1 anyway, but still long term losers.
The big winners are clubs like Zenit/CSKA, Juventus/Roma, and Porto/Benfica, who will get into Pot 1 by winning their national competitions. Some of these teams - especially the Portuguese ones - currently have high UEFA rankings anyway, largely due to their recent performance in the Europe League. But those rankings were probably not sustainable in the long run so having an auto-entry into Pot 1 is a boon.
The big losers here are clubs in England and Spain, which had been accustomed to having at least two and often three spots in Pot 1. A club like Arsenal would seem to be the biggest loser, given its longtime standing in Pot 1 without having won the league, but Arsenal were quite likely to drop out of Pot 1 anyway next year. Clubs like City and (when they return to the competition) United might be short term beneficiaries, given that their current UEFA coefficients aren't good enough for Pot 1 anyway, but still long term losers.
The other big losers are the Big 4 champions who would have been seeded anyway, because their draw just got potentially much more difficult. Under the new system, Bayern Munich (ranked 3rd) could draw Barcelona (2nd) or Chelsea (4th) in their group, while the old system prevented that. One of Real Madrid/Barca is almost guaranteed to not be seeded every single year (unless one wins the league while the other wins the CL) -- those are currently the two highest ranked clubs.
coremiller said:
Yup, definitely true. Assuming that at some point Manchester United becomes a top team again, you're likely to have a situation in which Pot 2 regularly includes 2/3 of the United/City/Chelsea trio, one of Barca/Real, and one of Bayern/Dortmund (most likely Dortmund obviously). One of those teams may be bumped to Pot 1 due to the identity of the previous year's champion but that is still a pretty tough "core" within Pot 2.
Edit: Looking closer, Dortmund and Schalke are among the bigger losers as well. Their recent successes had them well positioned to become Pot 1 teams in the future but now they'll have to beat Bayern in the league to get there.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
It's quite possible that in many years Pot 2 will actually be stronger than Pot 1.
Average coefficient of 2014 hypothetical Pot 1 teams (Top 7 winners + holder): 12.375
Average coefficient of 2014 hypothetical Pot 2 teams (8 highest ranked teams in the competition that did not win their league): 10
It's not that bad for the teams in Pot 2, since, say, the English non-champs avoid one of Real/Barca, one of Dortmund/Bayern, and also have a 1/7 or 1/6 shot at being in a group headed by Zenit/CSKA, depending on if the previous champs were English.
edit- However, if Barca/Real/Bayern/Dortmund win it, those countries would be the only ones with two teams in Pot 1. English teams will certainly be hoping a fellow EPL team wins it.
edit- However, if Barca/Real/Bayern/Dortmund win it, those countries would be the only ones with two teams in Pot 1. English teams will certainly be hoping a fellow EPL team wins it.
Even as an Arsenal fan, I love the proposed changes. They take the competition back slightly in the direction of being a "Champions League" again...and if that means some teams get screwed in the group stage draw every year, well, in the old European Cup the two best teams in Europe could draw each other in the first round, with one of them getting knocked out before October. Which, coincidentally, can still happen in domestic competitions like the FA Cup all across Europe every year; the chaotic nature of cup draws is a historical part of football/soccer, and these changes should make the group stage much more watchable.
ConigliarosPotential said:
I don't find "but tradition!" to be a compelling argument with the European Cup. which existed for less than 40 years in its original incarnation. Besides the fairness issue for particular clubs (which I think is legitimate), an unbalanced draw hinders the goal of having the best team win. The FA Cup is a bit different, as the tradition argument there has real force (it's been basically the same since the 1860s) and the goal isn't really to determine the best team (we have league play for that). The European Cup winner can call itself Champion of Europe, the FA Cup winner is not Champion of England.
Even from an entertainment perspective, the result of an unbalanced draw usually ends up being much less interesting late-stage knockout games. Remember when, due to some upsets and a favorable draw, Man Utd throttled an overwhelmed Schalke 6-1 in the 2011 semifinals? An unbalanced draw will give you more of that. I'll trade a boring group stage for good semifinals every time. Nobody in their right mind thinks Federer and Nadal should play in the second round in order to spice up the first week of Wimbledon.
coremiller said:
These are great arguments, but ultimately I think this is largely a matter of personal taste. Personally, I'd love to see Federer and Nadal get drawn against each other in the first round of Wimbledon, because sport is ultimately about entertainment more than it is about merit; if the latter were true, you'd probably re-seed the draw after every round of Wimbledon to help ensure that the best two players remaining in the field always had the best chance of reaching the final. Upsets happen, and some teams will have easier or harder paths to the final; that's just the nature of knockout competitions. And wouldn't the World Cup be a tad boring without at least one "Group of Death" to spice things up?
One point re: "Champion of Europe": the Champions League winner isn't "the best team in Europe" any more than the World Cup winner is "the best national side in the world", or the Super Bowl winner is "the best team in the NFL". The Champions League winner deserves to be crowned "Champion of Europe", but to me that means something different than saying "if the 2013-14 Champions League had been held 1,000 times, Real Madrid would have won it more often than any other club". Sometimes the best team clearly does win, but I wouldn't enjoy sport nearly as much as I do if it always won.
And the ref didn't call a probable red + pen in the 1st half. This is City. Every fucking year in this competition.
City got jipped there with the penalty, but what was Yaya doing with the back heel flick in the middle of the park?
And it's a disgrace that City weren't able to take travelling fans to the game.
And it's a disgrace that City weren't able to take travelling fans to the game.
Well, City went into this match knowing that there was a good chance they'd have to beat Roma away to advance...and now they almost definitely have to beat Roma to advance. They just have to hope that Roma doesn't get a result against Bayern later today as that would really put them behind the 8 ball.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Bayern is up 5-0 after 36 minutes in Rome. Didn't see that one coming.
[SIZE=13.63636302948px]Sporting was down 3-1 and playing with ten men, but fought back to tie the match at 3. That was until the ref gave Schalke a penalty because Sporting's defender handled a Huntelaar header with his face. 4-3 final. [/SIZE][SIZE=13.63636302948px] [/SIZE]
Yeah, both defenders actually read the move pretty well, he just took a great touch and put it in.
While that's true, I don't think there is much he could have done on that Benzema header.PedroSpecialK said:
Yeah, our defense is scary, but Real have scored twice on world class finishes.
I feel for Raheem. He's Champion's League class, but the rest of Liverpool barring the aging Gerrard, not so much.
The good news is that Basel and Ludogorets is still scoreless. Need Basel to drop some points somewhere.
Liverpool's defense is a fuckin mess. No one knows what they're doing. No one has any confidence. And they're not closing down around the box. The worst thing you can give quality players is time. Problem is, quite a few big teams are looking for a quality central defense.
I actually think Lovren can be pretty good. The biggest problem is Mignolet, he doesn't seem to communicate very well and the defenders never know if he's going to come off the line or not.fletcherpost said:
I hope Lovren is gonna get better. But he's been dropped in the deep end and so far he hasn't risen to the challenge. A great team needs a great spine. The goalie and the two central defenders are the bedrock of a good solid team, add in a quality holding midfielder and you're on your way. It's not a great mystery. If you can't buy all the big players like Real then you have to be canny.
I remember when Utd bought Pallister, for a big price at the time, he came from a small club, but he rose to the challenge. Same with Rio when he went to Leeds, wasn't too long before Utd broke the bank for him. Lovren has to embrace this opprtunity.
I agree mignolet is a bust. If he can't marshall the defense it all goes to pot. QPR carved Liverpool open several times on Sunday. Maybe its for the bestin the long run that we get to see Liverpool sans Suarez and Sturridge and see what those guys papered over. At least Sterling is the real deal, he oozes class, he's got that nasty edge too.
I remember when Utd bought Pallister, for a big price at the time, he came from a small club, but he rose to the challenge. Same with Rio when he went to Leeds, wasn't too long before Utd broke the bank for him. Lovren has to embrace this opprtunity.
I agree mignolet is a bust. If he can't marshall the defense it all goes to pot. QPR carved Liverpool open several times on Sunday. Maybe its for the bestin the long run that we get to see Liverpool sans Suarez and Sturridge and see what those guys papered over. At least Sterling is the real deal, he oozes class, he's got that nasty edge too.
Cazorla misses a golden chance. He's not doing much to show me that he should be starting over Ox, or Walcott for that matter pretty soon.
Dortmund is 3-0 up on Galatasaray so even if Arsenal squeek a win here our chances of finishing first in the group are very slim. They're going to be way ahead of us on goal differential so we'd probably need to win all our remaining games (including vs BvB at Emirates) and have them slip up at home against Gala or Anderlecht.
Dortmund is 3-0 up on Galatasaray so even if Arsenal squeek a win here our chances of finishing first in the group are very slim. They're going to be way ahead of us on goal differential so we'd probably need to win all our remaining games (including vs BvB at Emirates) and have them slip up at home against Gala or Anderlecht.
There's the morale-raising come from behind goal, as expected. Not holding out hope for a winner.
Pro: 1-2 Arsenal!
Con: Podolski was the one who scored, and the camera immediately went to Wenger, who was scowling, thinking "drat, now I have to play him more often"
Con: Podolski was the one who scored, and the camera immediately went to Wenger, who was scowling, thinking "drat, now I have to play him more often"
That's huge. I was just hoping for a draw, this is better.PedroSpecialK said:
Of course, Liverpool have to actually win their games against both teams for it to matter.
Some critical CL matches today and tomorrow. I'm sure most of us will be watching Liverpool-Madrid or Arsenal-Anderlecht, but its the other matches that seem more important in terms of qualification.
-Leverkusen are now 2-0 up on Zenit. A win here virtually clinches qualification and makes them huge favorites to win the group. We're likely to see four German teams in the round of 16, and probably three going there as group winners.
-That result helps keep Benfica alive. They only have one point from three matches but if they can beat Monaco today, then they've still got a real chance to qualify, especially as they could face a Leverkusen squad at home on the last matchday that had already locked up first place in the group.
-Juventus is facing an almost must-win against Olympiacos at home. If they draw here, they go into the final two matches, including one against Atleti, needing to make up three points on the Greeks.
-Basel-Ludogorets might be interesting as neither club is particularly dynamic in attack but both really need a win to have a good chance of qualifying from the group.
-Arsenal's group is by far the most boring at this point. A Dortmund win today virtually assures them of first place while anything but a loss virtually assures Arsenal of qualification in second.
-Leverkusen are now 2-0 up on Zenit. A win here virtually clinches qualification and makes them huge favorites to win the group. We're likely to see four German teams in the round of 16, and probably three going there as group winners.
-That result helps keep Benfica alive. They only have one point from three matches but if they can beat Monaco today, then they've still got a real chance to qualify, especially as they could face a Leverkusen squad at home on the last matchday that had already locked up first place in the group.
-Juventus is facing an almost must-win against Olympiacos at home. If they draw here, they go into the final two matches, including one against Atleti, needing to make up three points on the Greeks.
-Basel-Ludogorets might be interesting as neither club is particularly dynamic in attack but both really need a win to have a good chance of qualifying from the group.
-Arsenal's group is by far the most boring at this point. A Dortmund win today virtually assures them of first place while anything but a loss virtually assures Arsenal of qualification in second.
Skrtel just did his best to give Real the lead, but they put it over the bar.
This is going to be a very long 80 minutes.
This is going to be a very long 80 minutes.
Arsenal have had a couple great chances but also a couple bad giveaways that a better opponent would have done better with on the break. In other words, par for the course.
Ox really needs to improve his final ball to turn into a top player. If he was a little sharper and more composed in picking passes in the box, he'd be deadly.
Ox really needs to improve his final ball to turn into a top player. If he was a little sharper and more composed in picking passes in the box, he'd be deadly.
I will say that it's nice to see that Liverpool aren't just sitting back and defending, they are still trying to get forward when they can.
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