Michigan will beat Uconn 51-3. trust me. Uconn has no talent and kids already quit on the staff knowing theya re going to be fired after this game or at the end of the season
2013 Michigan Wolverines Football: Strugglin'
- Thread starter sachmoney
- Start date
this will be the smallest crowd Michigan will play in front of in a long time. I bet there are about 15k people, all michigan fans, left in the stadium in the fourth quarter.
Hey, it'll be the biggest home crowd for UConn ever. At least in the parking lot. Sooooooold out. 42K or so.
You guys even added extra seats for us, hahaha. It's like a payout game except you're home...kind of.
I'm headed out to CT shortly.
I'm headed out to CT shortly.
This is troubling in so many ways, both about this season, and the direction of the program.
This. Heads need to roll. I'm at the game listening to douchey uconn fans make Chris Weber references. Michigan is not supposed to lose to uconn in football. Ever.
This. Heads need to roll. I'm at the game listening to douchey uconn fans make Chris Weber references. Michigan is not supposed to lose to uconn in football. Ever.
That was probably the right call to go for it. That's not a 100% kick either is the thing to remember.twibnotes said:
That was probably the right call to go for it. That's not a 100% kick either is the thing to remember.
Gibbons would have hit that. Was like a 39 yarder, no?
Thing is, our o-line is not very good and Gardner can't take care of the ball. A short gain is not our forte
Gibbons would have hit that. Was like a 39 yarder, no?
Thing is, our o-line is not very good and Gardner can't take care of the ball. A short gain is not our forte
39 yarders are not sure things. It's not a binary like "would have hit it". That's like a 75% field goal from there, and Gardner is probably about 50% to pick up the 2 yards.twibnotes said:
4-0 and a bye week. The D played well 14 of the points were directly tied to turnovers, and Fitz ran effectively as the game wore on and the line started to get some push. 4 turnovers is unacceptable and will kill this team in the Big Ten season but this to me is still a building year and its a classic young team problem to get up for the big moments (Opening Day) and big teams (ND) and play down to competition they should walk over(Akron, UConn). I see nothing that is unexpected here.
They were favored by 55 points combined over the last 2 weeks and won by 7. There's about 48 points of unexpected there...thehitcat said:
I'm not a bettor so I don't follow lines. That said I agree that both games were much closer than I thought they would be mostly because of turnovers. Did I want them to win 77-7 like Miami? You bet I did but they could have been Arkansas this week or KState in week 1 but they got the W. I'll take it and hope they work on hanging onto the ball for the next game.bowiac said:
I'm concerned. We have a QB who is extremely mistake-prone (10 turnovers!) and an offensive line that can't establish the line of scrimmage vs Akron or UConn.
I've been bullish on Hoke, especially given his strong recruiting, but there is a bad trend developing here. This team has gotten worse over the last couple years. Can Hoke and is staff keep the pace with Urban Meyer? That's the expectation, and I'm not feeling it right now.
I've been bullish on Hoke, especially given his strong recruiting, but there is a bad trend developing here. This team has gotten worse over the last couple years. Can Hoke and is staff keep the pace with Urban Meyer? That's the expectation, and I'm not feeling it right now.
twibnotes said:
I'm still bullish on Hoke. He's now been held hostage for the third year in a row at the QB position. Damned if you do/damned if you don't players in Robinson and now Gardner. Morris' inexperience and reputation for locking in on receivers/not being able to read defenses wouldn't help at this point.
I'm perplexed about the OL. The Center and Guards have been awful. Hoke spoke about Magnuson, Bryant, and Braden practicing better and getting time this week, but other than Magnuson playing LT with Lewan shifted to an extra TE position, I didn't see any of those three. Glasgow, Miller, and Kalis just aren't getting it done right now.
I think Gardner's turnovers and Jim Marshall imitations (that's running in the wrong direction for you kids) are the biggest problem at the moment.
I'm still bullish on Hoke. He's now been held hostage for the third year in a row at the QB position. Damned if you do/damned if you don't players in Robinson and now Gardner. Morris' inexperience and reputation for locking in on receivers/not being able to read defenses wouldn't help at this point.
I'm perplexed about the OL. The Center and Guards have been awful. Hoke spoke about Magnuson, Bryant, and Braden practicing better and getting time this week, but other than Magnuson playing LT with Lewan shifted to an extra TE position, I didn't see any of those three. Glasgow, Miller, and Kalis just aren't getting it done right now.
I think Gardner's turnovers and Jim Marshall imitations (that's running in the wrong direction for you kids) are the biggest problem at the moment.
Gardner's limitations are definitely this team's biggest issue, but I can't help but link said issue to coaching. If Bill O'Brien or Urban Meyer is coaching this team, don't you think we'd be seeing better play from the QB position? RichRod was rightly criticized for not using the guys he inherited the best possible way. That rule still applies unless you want to give every coach 5-6 years to prove himself.
Getting more specific, Borges continues to be a concern, and he's Hoke's guy.
I'm perplexed about the OL. The Center and Guards have been awful. Hoke spoke about Magnuson, Bryant, and Braden practicing better and getting time this week, but other than Magnuson playing LT with Lewan shifted to an extra TE position, I didn't see any of those three. Glasgow, Miller, and Kalis just aren't getting it done right now.
I think Gardner's turnovers and Jim Marshall imitations (that's running in the wrong direction for you kids) are the biggest problem at the moment.
Gardner's limitations are definitely this team's biggest issue, but I can't help but link said issue to coaching. If Bill O'Brien or Urban Meyer is coaching this team, don't you think we'd be seeing better play from the QB position? RichRod was rightly criticized for not using the guys he inherited the best possible way. That rule still applies unless you want to give every coach 5-6 years to prove himself.
Getting more specific, Borges continues to be a concern, and he's Hoke's guy.
The biggest problem with the o line, which is also the biggest problem of the team (not Gardner), is age. It's important to remember that the 3 interior guys are all freshmen or sophs. Even our vaunted 5-stars are going to have trouble going up against 21 and 22 year olds who have been in a college lifting program (any college lifting program) for more years. My hope and expectation was that these hyped recruits would neutralize lesser programs (I.e. the last 2 games), but it seems like that's not the case. The line will hopefully improve over the course of the year as well as the kids get more starts together. It's certainly fair to worry about this season (no game should be considered a w prospectively), but I think it's reactionary to worry about the direction of the program. If we're getting the same results in 2 years, then there's likely a systemic issue, but when you're starting teenagers on the lines, this is what you get. Devin hasn't played well either, but there's been bad pass pro and the running game hasn't been the safety valve you'd want for a young qb. He still has the potential to be the qb from the ND game, he just has to improve decision making and consistency. Turnovers are crushing this team right now. As someone posted above, the d played reasonably well and points off turnovers has been a significant problem. I'd like to see more blitzing since Mattison is a g in that dept. but I can understand trying to get pressure with 4 because of the lb coverage we've been seeing - morgans insane int notwithstanding. Countess has been awesome and Taylor's been ok, I wouldn't mind seeing the cb play tighter coverage and more blitzing, but I'm sure Greg has his reasons for not doing so. At the end of the day, the team is undefeated going into the bye week and conference play, so the potential to turn this around is still very much there.
Last night is pretty much why I don't like going to games as much as I used to. The game stunk. My voice is pretty horse from yelling. The last two games I've been to, this and the Sugar Bowl, have been awful. This was the type of game where you need a hug afterwards.
While I appreciate that Hoke was dealt a dubious hand, teams still do plug in redshirt freshman on the lines sometimes without it being a train wreck. The struggles on the line by someone like Kalis vs. Akron aren't great. The D-line isn't even all that young, and they're still having trouble generating push.
As for the QB situation, that's also not something where Hoke is blameless. There are schematic issues with what they're trying to do with the offensive. Brian at MGoBlog had a post about Michigan being on the wrong side of history with respect to their direction of the offense, and I think that looks to be the case. While they haven't abandoned the RichRod elements of the offense, a lot of their struggles have come from repeated efforts to move away from them. Whether that's because the talent isn't there to do so, or because the offense is so wildly predictable when they're not running an inverted veer, it's not a great sign about how Hoke/Borges think about things that we're in year 3 of them trying to do this and failing. This year less so, but that's a general concern I have with the direction of the program going forward.
They also got a little cute by not taking a QB in 2012. That affects things both with respect to not being willing to run with Gardner as much, and also by restricting their options if they think Gardner's decision making has reached impermissibly bad levels. It also commits them to going with Shane Morris either next year or the year after that, and while he was obviously a high end recruit, he wasn't a can't miss guy. I hope he's a star obviously, but it'd be nice to have someone else who can compete for the job.
Anyway, obviously not calling for anybody's head, but recruiting aside, there are a couple of warning flags out there. The recruiting may be at such a high level as to cover them up of course.
As for the QB situation, that's also not something where Hoke is blameless. There are schematic issues with what they're trying to do with the offensive. Brian at MGoBlog had a post about Michigan being on the wrong side of history with respect to their direction of the offense, and I think that looks to be the case. While they haven't abandoned the RichRod elements of the offense, a lot of their struggles have come from repeated efforts to move away from them. Whether that's because the talent isn't there to do so, or because the offense is so wildly predictable when they're not running an inverted veer, it's not a great sign about how Hoke/Borges think about things that we're in year 3 of them trying to do this and failing. This year less so, but that's a general concern I have with the direction of the program going forward.
They also got a little cute by not taking a QB in 2012. That affects things both with respect to not being willing to run with Gardner as much, and also by restricting their options if they think Gardner's decision making has reached impermissibly bad levels. It also commits them to going with Shane Morris either next year or the year after that, and while he was obviously a high end recruit, he wasn't a can't miss guy. I hope he's a star obviously, but it'd be nice to have someone else who can compete for the job.
Anyway, obviously not calling for anybody's head, but recruiting aside, there are a couple of warning flags out there. The recruiting may be at such a high level as to cover them up of course.
Anyway, obviously not calling for anybody's head, but recruiting aside, there are a couple of warning flags out there. The recruiting may be at such a high level as to cover them up of course.
This is about where I am, but I'm probably a bit more pessimistic. I still want to see UM be a program that competes for National Championships, and that is a really tough level to reach if your coach is just good at recruiting, especially when the SEC generally benefits from lower academic standards and over-signing. It's really hard to see UM competing for championships without having a really excellent coach (Harbaugh of course would have been ideal) who can out-develop players and out-scheme the opposition. I'm not saying Hoke can't deliver on those fronts, but I'm a lot less optimistic today than a year ago.
This is about where I am, but I'm probably a bit more pessimistic. I still want to see UM be a program that competes for National Championships, and that is a really tough level to reach if your coach is just good at recruiting, especially when the SEC generally benefits from lower academic standards and over-signing. It's really hard to see UM competing for championships without having a really excellent coach (Harbaugh of course would have been ideal) who can out-develop players and out-scheme the opposition. I'm not saying Hoke can't deliver on those fronts, but I'm a lot less optimistic today than a year ago.
bowiac said:
Actually, I thought that mgoblog post was funny to read in light of the Uconn game. Maybe Michigan's effort was largely the result of trying to plug a spread-qb peg into a pro-style qb hole, or maybe it's what happens when your QB recruiting strategy is just to get the best affolete possible and put him back there. If I were a Michigan fan, I would really find it difficult to put too much blame on Hoke for the fact that Gardner makes horrible decisions and can't read a defense when Hoke didn't recruit him and doesn't even recruit QBs like him.
redinchicago wrote:
Michigan has more than adequate location, tradition, facilities, etc. to field a top 10 team that is occasionally a nat championship contender, IMO. Like a lot of Michigan fans, I'm hopeful we are on that track, which is why the last couple games are a concern (albeit a small sample).
I acknowledge we need to give Hoke more time, but overall I can't think of a sport where the coach has a bigger effect than college football. He recruits the players, selects the staff (and correspondingly the systems), sets strategy, influences player development, etc. A guy like Saban or Meyer could go to any major program and make it a contender.
Michigan has more than adequate location, tradition, facilities, etc. to field a top 10 team that is occasionally a nat championship contender, IMO. Like a lot of Michigan fans, I'm hopeful we are on that track, which is why the last couple games are a concern (albeit a small sample).
There's actually two issues here. 1. You work with the talent you have. Other than the totally mystifying inability of Michigan to field punts, snap the ball cleanly, or kick field goals under RichRod, my #1 complaint with him was not the defense. It was his attempt to force square pegs into round holes. Devin Gardner is the quarterback Brady Hoke has. He's a 5 star redshirt junior - you should be able to make that work for you, regardless of the offense you "want" to run. That said, the UConn result was not so much a result of poor scheme with Gardner. That's an issue going forward, but it didn't cause what happened on Saturday.AgentOrange said:
Issue 2 is that Hoke deserves blame for not wanting to use spread option QBs. That's where that MgoBlog post comes in. Michigan is coming down on the wrong side of history with "manball". I don't think this is a quaint quirk of Hoke's that it's just his style. This isn't a one gap, two gap issue where I think there's a legitimate difference of opinion about whether a pro-style QB offense is the way to go or not. Such debate still exists in the NFL, but in college, it's just putting yourself at a disadvantage. That may be fine, since Michigan's recruiting is so good that the talent edge will overcome leaving hypothetical points on the field. But it's still a mistake if that's really the way they go with it.
The microcosm of this is the spread punt issue. Almost every team in college uses the spread punt, since it largely eliminates punt returns. It's wildly effective in college, but it's not used in the NFL, because the formation is illegal there. What does Hoke use? The pro punt protection formation of course, presumably because that's how the NFL does it, and Hoke wants the team to be as NFL-like as possible. Again, this isn't a huge issue, but it's also giving up yards they don't need to.
Buffalo 41
UConn 12
I know comparing scores can be a silly exercise, but I really hope UM looks sharp vs. Minnesota. Hard not to be a bit concerned.
Bowjac - enjoyed your post and agree strongly with point 1 about using your talent. As for point 2 (the wrong side of history with the spread), aren't some programs (Stanford, Bama, UGA) showing that you can compete for a nat championship with a pro style system? Maybe it is bc of the tough RichRod years, but I feel Iike UM is at its best from a recruiting standpoint if we are an NFL feeder. Seems like that has to be part of the draw to Ann Arbor if we're competing with, in some cases, schools with better weather, lots of goofy alternative unis (which players seem to like), etc.
UConn 12
I know comparing scores can be a silly exercise, but I really hope UM looks sharp vs. Minnesota. Hard not to be a bit concerned.
Bowjac - enjoyed your post and agree strongly with point 1 about using your talent. As for point 2 (the wrong side of history with the spread), aren't some programs (Stanford, Bama, UGA) showing that you can compete for a nat championship with a pro style system? Maybe it is bc of the tough RichRod years, but I feel Iike UM is at its best from a recruiting standpoint if we are an NFL feeder. Seems like that has to be part of the draw to Ann Arbor if we're competing with, in some cases, schools with better weather, lots of goofy alternative unis (which players seem to like), etc.
Important changes coming on the OL: Glasgow to C, Bryant to LG, Miller to bench.
Gotta make it work. Interested to see Bryant in action. Gets excellent reviews from his teammates, but has battled significant injuries.
Gotta make it work. Interested to see Bryant in action. Gets excellent reviews from his teammates, but has battled significant injuries.
Important changes coming on the OL: Glasgow to C, Bryant to LG, Miller to bench.
Gotta make it work. Interested to see Bryant in action. Gets excellent reviews from his teammates, but has battled significant injuries.
And hopefully Glasgow can make the right calls and make communication better.
Gotta make it work. Interested to see Bryant in action. Gets excellent reviews from his teammates, but has battled significant injuries.
And hopefully Glasgow can make the right calls and make communication better.
Mgoblog has also been pointing out recently that the TE haven't been blocking particularly well either and that Fitz isn't hitting the holes fast enough (zing!). I tend to agree with this analysis, since it assesses fault throughout the offense, which would be in line with the results we've been seeing. However, the o-line performing well can paper over the faults of other offensive positions, whereas the converse isn't true. I'm very glad to see Miller-->Bryant, we needed to get more talent and size on the line. Cautiously optimistic. Also, MN sucks.
Of what I remember of the UConn game, Funchess missed numerous blocks that had me calling for his head. That kid has so much promise as a receiver, but if he can't block, he's not going to see the field. Heck, our wide receivers can block better than him. It's terribly disappointing. Right now, I'm a Butt man as far as tight ends go.
That line is high.
That line is high.
sachmoney said:
Fantastic.
Also, I agree that the line ABSURD - has no one been watching UM the last 2 weeks (lucky them!)????
I'm glad somebody enjoyed that.Zososoxfan said:
Jerry Kill suffered a seizure before the game and will not be on the sidelines today. A bummer before the Little Brown Jug game.
It is depressing.
On one hand, he has improved the team, if only a little more than marginally. But, it's getting to the point where this stuff is not only a distraction, it's gotta affect the performance on game day.
I wish the best for the guy, and hope he sticks around to see what he can do. But Jesus...
On one hand, he has improved the team, if only a little more than marginally. But, it's getting to the point where this stuff is not only a distraction, it's gotta affect the performance on game day.
I wish the best for the guy, and hope he sticks around to see what he can do. But Jesus...
Yeah, it's to the point where Minnesota has to fire the guy "amicably" or he has to resign. And the former seems unrealistic.
Not sure what I can say. It WAS better. It wasn't great, but it was better. I just want progress at this point. I really want this team to be good. It's hard to gauge how this offense is from this particular sample cuz Minnesota ate a ton of clock. Are any of you "happy?"
Not sure what I can say. It WAS better. It wasn't great, but it was better. I just want progress at this point. I really want this team to be good. It's hard to gauge how this offense is from this particular sample cuz Minnesota ate a ton of clock. Are any of you "happy?"
The line was a huge improvement yesterday. As expected, Bryant looked good in run blocking, but was weak in pass pro. I switched over to the sox a lot in the 2nd half but Glasgow only had 1 handoff with Gardner go poorly. Devin was more conservative with the ball which was a nice change - no int or fumbles, but as the announcers correctly pointed out, there was very little yac to be had for the receivers because he wasn't too accurate. Speaking of the receivers, funchess is basically a receiver now, which is a good thing. He can't block well and butt and Williams can handle that. I think if you consider funchess a te, we will be seeing more 3 te sets. I really liked the game Borges called. The shifting of lewan and schofield was creative and created a lot of holes. Lewan is a beast. I wasnt impressed with green but he needs to get more carries before I even start worrying about him. I think the d played reasonably well - minn was a completely different offense from their usual and that led to problems in the first half. But the d did create that big early fumble so hard to complain. Countess is amazing. Losing pipkins will hurt, but if we get Ryan back soon, that should be ok. All in all, a much better performance that restored some of my (and I'm sure the teams) confidence. Need to see them do it again next week and establish some consistency.
What offense could he be competent in as a QB? He doesn't know how to protect the football, can't avoid throwing into the hands of renders, and has zero accuracy. He is not a major college QB, and no offense could hide his many flaws.
What offense could he be competent in as a QB? He doesn't know how to protect the football, can't avoid throwing into the hands of renders, and has zero accuracy. He is not a major college QB, and no offense could hide his many flaws.
He has SOME talents - how can anyone possibly argue that Borges is properly leveraging them?
He has SOME talents - how can anyone possibly argue that Borges is properly leveraging them?
When your QB turns the ball over 3 times a game, the only thug to blame the coaches for is not benching him.