2013 Heisman
- Thread starter axx
- Start date
There's no charges against him so it should be a moot point. I think Winston, Miller, Tre Mason, and Andre Williams should get invited to NYC.axx said:
So the finalists were announced. Besides Winston, there's Jordan Lynch, Johnny Manziel, AJ McCarron, Tre Mason and Andre Williams. Most finalists since 1994. I thought they might invite more than necessary but 6 seems excessive.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10111560/heisman-trophy-finalists-jordan-lynch-johnny-manziel-tre-mason-aj-mccarron-andre-williams-jameis-winston
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10111560/heisman-trophy-finalists-jordan-lynch-johnny-manziel-tre-mason-aj-mccarron-andre-williams-jameis-winston
Likely bigger dropoff between 6 and 7, than 3 and 4, and 4 and 5, and 5 and 6, etc.DrewDawg said:
Interesting to see who'll get 2nd.
I don't see how Jordan Lynch is here though, competition has to count for something. Is there anyone who would take him over Boyd or Mariotta or Miller?
Dan to Theo to Ben said:
Jordan Lynch's numbers are ridiculous. This isn't a referendum on where they'll get drafted.
He was the #2 rusher in the FBS, had 2 games of over 300 yards rushing, scored 22 TDs, and passed for another 2700 yards and 23 TDs. Competition counts, but you don't see guys putting up those numbers every year.
DrewDawg said:
You are completely right. It is about a college football player, and honestly I think competition has been to be a factor in the past.
Lynch to me is an easy second place finisher this year, and there is no one close. And if Winston wasn't just insanely good I'd consider him for the top.
Lynch may never take a snap at the next level, but for me he is an absolute no doubt first ballot guy for the College football HOF
M
MentalDisabldLst
Guest
Just a hunch but I think this voting is going to be closer than most people think.
You can argue that the Winston investigation shouldn't affect the voting given that it didn't result in any charges being brought - and I'm not really looking to have that debate - but I think there will be some percentage of voters who won't want to pull the trigger on him for the top spot.
I still expect that he'll win it, but I think the story Saturday night will be that he didn't run away with it, and with some books offering Winston at odds-on and 30-1 or more on the field I could see taking a small flyer on the field.
You can argue that the Winston investigation shouldn't affect the voting given that it didn't result in any charges being brought - and I'm not really looking to have that debate - but I think there will be some percentage of voters who won't want to pull the trigger on him for the top spot.
I still expect that he'll win it, but I think the story Saturday night will be that he didn't run away with it, and with some books offering Winston at odds-on and 30-1 or more on the field I could see taking a small flyer on the field.
The Heisman seems to have evolved into a which front runner from a high profile team doesn't fuck it up down the stretch, and did your team win 10+ games. It's like the front runners are immediately downgraded based on one performance and we don't talk much about the body of work until the last few weeks. Winston didn't so much as separate but didn't fall. He gained steam midseason and didn't screw it up. Since he was never a strong early candidate, and he's a freshman, I expect it to be closer than expected. But again, no one behind him had momentum. Tre Mason would have been a cool pick, but got on the radar too late.
PaulinMyrBch said:
Mason wasn't even Auburn's #1 back for half the season as far as I can tell (for example in some of their garbage games, he was collecting his stats in the 4th quarter of blowouts)
Winston jumped into the heisman race in the first game of the season, and never fell off. He was a monster all year, but his numbers are suppressed a bit by the number of blowout games where he was shut down early
I think Winston wins by a whole lot, because it is really hard to justify a first place vote for anyone else
Andre Williams? Good back on a mediocre team, but how does he gain traction where Kevin Smith couldn't in the same scenario a few years ago.
McCarron. Mediocre numbers everywhere except W/L
Manziel - lots of controversy, and a tough year winning games
Lynch - Amazing player, but in the MAC
Marriota - Struggled after getting hurt
I think you can justify a first-place vote for McCarron and I'll admit that he would have my vote. You'd have to view it as sort of a career achievement vote. 36-3 career record as a starter in the country's best conference. Two national titles and one miraculous play away from playing for another SEC title and shot at the national crown. Credible individual numbers this year: 67% completions, 5:1 TD:INT ratio.
The kid played the most important position on the team that has defined the last three seasons of college football. He played it well, won it all twice and has never had a whiff of controversy. I'm not a Bama fan at all and even less of a Saban fan but I don't know what more a kid can really do in a collegiate career.
The kid played the most important position on the team that has defined the last three seasons of college football. He played it well, won it all twice and has never had a whiff of controversy. I'm not a Bama fan at all and even less of a Saban fan but I don't know what more a kid can really do in a collegiate career.
M
MentalDisabldLst
Guest
Plus McCarron wasn't "one miraculous play away" from playing for the SEC title. If that short FG as time expired went 2 feet farther and is never returned, the game goes to OT and it's a 50-50- shot. The Auburn defense had basically shut down his passing game for four quarters.
BigMike said:
Mason was absolutely Auburn's #1 back for the entire season. He collected some carries late in the garbage games because the actual bruiser/end the game guy, Cameron Artis-Payne, probably needed a breather (or maybe he was in the doghouse), and they didn't want to use Marshall or the speedy outside guy (Corey Grant) for those plays. His carries weren't distributed 100% as the primary, early-in-the-game guy in every single game because of game-planning, things that they wanted to work on, etc., but he was absolutely the starter and #1 HB for the entire season. He had 283 attempts, Artis-Payne had 90 and Grant had 65.
JMDurron said:
My bad. yeah I saw some results in those games that looked odd. He really didn't seem to take off until midseason. I did do some calculations at one point, and Adre Williams had about 400 more yards against garbage OOC opponents than Mason didin his OOC games (Nova, Army and the abysmal NMSU)
BigMike said:
One of the starting guards, Alex Kozan, was a FR(RS), and he really seemed to start bulldozing people as the season went along. He made the Freshman All-SEC team, and I suspect him peaking is what led to a shift from distributing between Mason (between tackles) and Grant (speedster) to ramping up the doses of Mason. I'd vote for Williams over Mason, FWIW, as there are certain stat totals that trump levels of competition, particularly when playing for a mediocre team with zero other offensive weapons.
DrewDawg said:
That game was the worst performance by the Auburn secondary for the entire season. I think some people were surprised that Missouri didn't throw more during the SEC Title game because Auburn got torched during the Iron Bowl, but the Iron Bowl was a deviation from the middling-to-good performance by the CBs that Auburn had for most of the season. He would have had 400 yards with fewer high throws/dropped passes.
This seems like it was right. They could have reasonably kept it to three, but if they wanted to invite anyone in 4-6 (including last uear's winner), they were kind of forced to bring them all.Dan to Theo to Ben said:
Given all of the stink surrounding Winston, it doesn't surprise me that they'd want to include a few extra better "stories". After his acceptance speech I'm sure they are glad they did.