2013-2014 Syracuse Basketball: Same Zone, New Conference

LeftyTG

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I'm not a grad.  I was born in Syracuse in 1979.  My dad was a Syracuse fanatic and raised my brother and I to be the same.  Now as adults, Syracuse athletics is probably the only topic the three of us have in common.  We left Syracuse when I was only 3 (moved to Scranton, PA then Albany, NY before setting in to Sturbridge, MA for the rest of my childhood).  The commitment to Syracuse never waned though.  One of my earlier childhood memories was the Keith Smart shot and how upset my dad was.  I remember the family cleared our schedule any time Syracuse was on tv.  To this day I maintain a healthy dislike of anything Indiana (and Penn St too, for that matter) and, of course, all things Georgetown.
 
Like BenHogan, I always tell people that while I enjoy all sports and follow most of them, the only teams I'm deeply invested in and loyal to are the Red Sox and all Syracuse teams.  True story - I ditched the Patriots the day they drafted Terry Glenn over Marvin Harrison.  I'm totally an NFL and NBA nomad, though this may be heresy but I just can't warm up to Carmelo Anthony as a pro.  I'll be eternally grateful for his time at Syracuse, but I just hate his pro game. I'm sick enough to still check the Wes Johnson box scores hoping against hope he puts it together.  Heck, I even followed Darryl Watkins when he was picked up on a 10 day contacts by the Hornets at the end of last year.
 

benhogan

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Syracuse class of '89, but had an older sister (6yrs older) that also went to Cuse. So I've been invested in SU hoops since 1980, just post Louie/Bowie, and really picked them up when they had Eric Santifer, Leo Rautins (yes Andy's dad), and Tony "Red" Bruin.  Boeheim employed a 2-1-2 defense originally, but it morphed into a 2-3 after a few years. He always reluctantly played man to man up until 5 seasons ago and then got beat by LeMoyne in the pre-season, he hasn't played man since.
 
Their are a few things I've noticed with this years team that makes them different (and better) from past Cuse teams.
1. free throw shooting is better and some guys have really been improving during the course of the season (Grant and Ennis especially), even Xmas is decent from the line.
2. players know their roles.  Fair is the top dog, but Ennis, Grant and Cooney are willing to step up on a given night.
3. players don't take silly quick shots, seems like this team exhausts the shot clock to look for the best shot
4. ego's are in check, little to no celebrating after a basket (esp from Ennis) or a win. After watching years of Eric Devendorf celebrate wildly down the court beating his chest after a break away lay up, its nice to see players act like they have hit a shot before.. 
5. "Clutchness", ok I know this doesn't exist in baseball, but these guys execute better then any Cuse team, I've ever witnessed, in the last 5 minutes of a game.
 

Rossox

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CNY native but not a grad (mom is). Early childhood memories are rooted in Cuse hoops. Was at Pearl's half courter against BC as a young kid, but nothing topped the G-Town games at the Dome. In my house you would have thought that John Thompson was the devil.

I think I cried 3 times over sporting events and they were all in a 12 month span --- from Ron Rowan to Bill Buckner to Keith Smart. Each more painful than the next.

Anyway, 23-0 feels good.
 

LeoCarrillo

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ivanvamp said:
 
Me too.  Newhouse grad.  Freshman year in Flint.  That was pretty fun.
 
Sweet. I was in school of management, which was a waste of time. Lived in Booth and then Delplain, and then off-campus for two years down by Westcott. A frequenter of Chuck's and by senior year Faegan's for flip night. Freshman year block party down along Walnut Park was righteous. I shroomed and Fishbone killed it. Was in a frat briefly but bagged it because my off-campus crunchy granola friends were cooler. Once saw Derrick Coleman in a fistfight with our nose tackle Fred DeRiggi right in the fucking middle of Marshall Street. DC was shirtless, going gangsta. Tore off his shirt. It was in like January. Probably 15 degrees outside. They got in some beef inside the new bar 44's and took it outside. It was surreal. He was the star of the basketball team. Fighting in front of 200 people in Marshall Street. Shirtless. And there was never a word of it in the papers. Gotta love it.
 
Well, that about sums it up.
 

benhogan

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Nothing yet on Keita. We'll be holding our breath on Baye, we need those 10 fouls at the 5, especially against Pitt.
 
Leo, I do remember DC wearing some sort of large gold South African necklace during his years at the Cuse. And he drove around some sort of white Jeep Bronco, courtesy of Bill Rapp I'm sure. Derrick Coleman was definitely gangsta, before their was gangsta...
 
I also saw Fishbone at Walnut Park, but thought Floyd at the Dome was the best show I caught up there...
 

LeoCarrillo

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benhogan said:
Nothing yet on Keita. We'll be holding our breath on Baye, we need those 10 fouls at the 5, especially against Pitt.
 
Leo, I do remember DC wearing some sort of large gold South African necklace during his years at the Cuse. And he drove around some sort of white Jeep Bronco, courtesy of Bill Rapp I'm sure. Derrick Coleman was definitely gangsta, before their was gangsta...
 
I also saw Fishbone at Walnut Park, but thought Floyd at the Dome was the best show I caught up there...
 
Yeah, he had like a Jeep Cherokee with custom license plate DC 44. Stevie Thompson had one too.
 
Skipping that Floyd show is one of my greatest regrets ever. Did see U2 at the Dome, though. And Phish played Chuck's (nobody ever played Chuck's) in my junior or senior year. That was incredible.
 
Almost as incredible as Sal's Birdland.
 

benhogan

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LeoCarrillo said:
 
Yeah, he had like a Jeep Cherokee with custom license plate DC 44. Stevie Thompson had one too.
 
Skipping that Floyd show is one of my greatest regrets ever. Did see U2 at the Dome, though. And Phish played Chuck's (nobody ever played Chuck's) in my junior or senior year. That was incredible.
 
Almost as incredible as Sal's Birdland.
Jeep Cherokee, thats right. Plates, good memory.
 
Sorry man, dosing at Floyd with 10 of my buddies was epic.
 
Swimming in sassy huh?  I made the mistake of buying the franchise rights to Sal's Birdland for the NYC area back in 1994.  Sal Nalbone did OK, but I ended up losing a bunch of money on that venture. The restaurant business is a tough one.  It killed me when someone from Cuse would show up and say they remembered Sal's Birdland and then proceed to order wings with Frank's Red Hot sauce because they liked the 10 cent wings at Sutter's Mill better.  
 
Just had Sassy sauce last week on some chicken tenders and they were awesome.
 

LeoCarrillo

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benhogan said:
Jeep Cherokee, thats right. Plates, good memory.

Sorry man, dosing at Floyd with 10 of my buddies was epic.

Swimming in sassy huh? I made the mistake of buying the franchise rights to Sal's Birdland for the NYC area back in 1994. Sal Nalbone did OK, but I ended up losing a bunch of money on that venture. The restaurant business is a tough one. It killed me when someone from Cuse would show up and say they remembered Sal's Birdland and then proceed to order wings with Frank's Red Hot sauce because they liked the 10 cent wings at Sutter's Mill better.

Just had Sassy sauce last week on some chicken tenders and they were awesome.
Yeah, the wings biz is a tough dollar. Know what else is? "Backflip for a quarter" off the guardrail beam in the Chucks and Sutters alley. Those kids earned their pay.
 

luckysox

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Grew up just north of Rome NY, which is about 45 minutes east of Syracuse. Watching them was what we did in the Winter - that and play hockey on homemade rinks.  All it did was snow and Pearl, Seikaly, Douglas, Addison, Triche, DC, Owens...then onto the years with Wallace and Etan Thomas and Lawrence Moten (God I loved him), it's what we had.
 
And I don't want to talk about the Buckner/Smart year. I just don't want to talk about it.
 

ivanvamp

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Jul 18, 2005
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I once got dunked on by Stevie Thompson in a pickup game at Archbold. I'll never forget it. I was guarding him at the top of the key, he gave a little shimmy, I moved a half step to my left (big mistake), he took one dribble, a huge step, and just threw down a monster jam. You know, you think you're a pretty good player (and I was...still am actually), but then you actually play with a guy like that, and you realize that it's a completely different universe.
 

benhogan

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ivanvamp said:
I once got dunked on by Stevie Thompson in a pickup game at Archbold. I'll never forget it. I was guarding him at the top of the key, he gave a little shimmy, I moved a half step to my left (big mistake), he took one dribble, a huge step, and just threw down a monster jam. You know, you think you're a pretty good player (and I was...still am actually), but then you actually play with a guy like that, and you realize that it's a completely different universe.
He had crazy hops, if you played off him and let him shoot an open jumper there was a good chance of a front rim clank...
 

benhogan

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LeoCarrillo said:
Sounds like Keita a longshot for Pitt, but I'm just glad he's not done. By all means, sit him a couple weeks if needed and get a Grant at center + Roberson lineup some minutes now, in case we ever need it later.

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/index.ssf/2014/02/syracuse_center_baye_moussa_keitas_status_uncertain_for_pittsburgh_basketball_ga.html
good point.
 
A hobbled Keita will be useless against Pitts big men, so hopefully he will sit if he is less then 100%.  Its a good time to start developing Roberson and giving Gbinije more minutes at the 3. We will definitely need both those guys this year and over the next few seasons.
 

LeftyTG

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Boeheim thinks that Ennis will be back next year:
 
SI.com: Do you think he'll turn pro after the season is over?
Boeheim: I don't think so. I think he knows and his father knows that he's a really good college player. He has to become a better shooter and get stronger to go to the next level. He'd go in the first round, but look at the number of first-round picks who are already out of the league in the last two years. It's a huge number.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20140210/hoop-thoughts-marcus-smart-jim-boeheim-syracuse-duke-north-carolina/#ixzz2syg6xGQL
 
There's a long way between now and the NBA draft and I'd rather hear this from Ennis than Boeheim, but there is reason for optimism here.  Boeheim isn't a guy blow smoke, and his quote sure makes it seems like he has had conversations with Ennis and his family about his NBA future.  Ennis leaving after one year would really cripple next year's team at the PG position.
 

LeoCarrillo

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While we're waiting for Cuse to quite possibly take a loss at Pitt (might not be the worst thing) without Keita, how about a sub-forum on the best greasy college food at the Cuse? I'm going top five of:
 
1. Zorba's (toasted sandwiches, place was kinda hidden behind Faegan's)
2. Cosmos (tuna bomber!)
3. Sal's Birdland (Sassy Sauce!)
4. Acropolis (solid everything)
5. Haven dining hall (all-girls dorm but the bepenised students were allowed to eat there)
 
My favorite here-and-gone place was Yash's pizza. Cheap, probably a front for a weed dealer, disappeared overnight.
 
Edit: Gotta give Varsity props, too. Especially on wings.
 

ivanvamp

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Jul 18, 2005
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Haven is no longer an all-women's dorm.  That changed many, many years ago, Leo.  Like I think 15-20 years ago.  
 
Sal's was amazing.  Absolutely amazing.  I loved Cosmo's cheap pasta plates.  I loved Varsity's wings.  I was there recently and the same dude was working behind the counter as when we were there.  Big, tall guy, glasses.  Been there forever.  He's an institution.  
 
Never ate at Zorba's.  
 
I loved after-hours at Brockway.  Greasy hamburgers and fries, all on your SUpercard.  Nice.  Though a $50 balance on my SUpercard once prevented me from registering for classes.  That sucked.  
 
SU will lose to Pitt tomorrow.  Book it.  If they win that minus Keita, look out.
 

LeoCarrillo

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ivanvamp said:
Haven is no longer an all-women's dorm.  That changed many, many years ago, Leo.  Like I think 15-20 years ago.  
 
Sal's was amazing.  Absolutely amazing.  I loved Cosmo's cheap pasta plates.  I loved Varsity's wings.  I was there recently and the same dude was working behind the counter as when we were there.  Big, tall guy, glasses.  Been there forever.  He's an institution.  
 
Never ate at Zorba's.  
 
I loved after-hours at Brockway.  Greasy hamburgers and fries, all on your SUpercard.  Nice.  Though a $50 balance on my SUpercard once prevented me from registering for classes.  That sucked.  
 
SU will lose to Pitt tomorrow.  Book it.  If they win that minus Keita, look out.
 
Gus. My father loved that guy (we'd always go when he dropped me off in September and picked me up at the end of the year) and asked his name.
 
"Ivanvamp, your wings are ready, Ivanvamp."
 

Bucknahs Bum Ankle

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Yep, Gus is still at the Varsity, or was as of about a year ago anyway.   We used to make up stupid names just to hear him call them over the loudspeaker.  "Buttnose, your wings are ready, Buttnose."
 
Ali Baba's food truck was always a late night favorite outside of Sadler.  Eventually I did figure out that if I stopped getting a couple of his slices while wasted off my ass at 2:00 am, I'd reduce my chances of puking by about 85%.
 
Stumpy, class of '95  -- you guys are really old!
 

ivanvamp

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Gus! Right! Thanks for jarring my memory. My freshman year I went to Chuck's (Hungry Charlie's) to watch the tip off classic between SU and North Carolina. Went to OT. Pete freaking Chilcutt hit a buzzer beater that hit the back rim, bounced high in the air, and dropped through. Killer.

Great year to be introduced to SU football though. Sugar bowl, undefeated season, blew out Penn State, crazy win over West Virginia, the works. Lots of time spent on M street. Funny I don't remember as much of that though. I wonder why. Got absolutely wrecked at the block party that year. Yikes.

College was great. :)
 

Rossox

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ivanvamp said:
Gus! Right! Thanks for jarring my memory. My freshman year I went to Chuck's (Hungry Charlie's) to watch the tip off classic between SU and North Carolina. Went to OT. Pete freaking Chilcutt hit a buzzer beater that hit the back rim, bounced high in the air, and dropped through. Killer.

Great year to be introduced to SU football though. Sugar bowl, undefeated season, blew out Penn State, crazy win over West Virginia, the works. Lots of time spent on M street. Funny I don't remember as much of that though. I wonder why. Got absolutely wrecked at the block party that year. Yikes.

College was great. :)
 
If anyone can find online the audio of Doug Logan calling the winning 2 pt conversion by Michael Owens in the win over WVU, I will buy them a (virtual) beer. Classic!
 

Otto

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Redshirt senior in 1995.  
 
Wimpy Wagon was my preferred vendor for late night grease.
 

bsj

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Haven doesnt actually have a dining hall anymore either. 
 
I lived there in 96-97. Had been co-ed for many years prior. Dining hall was around then, but then they built a new one up my Dellplain and they closed up the Haven one about 4-5 years ago.
 
Old Chuck's was cool, but the new one that they opened about, oh, 10 years ago, sucks. 
 
Did you ever order extra lettuce from Ziggy's Wagon?
 

LeoCarrillo

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Otto said:
Redshirt senior in 1995.  
 
Wimpy Wagon was my preferred vendor for late night grease.
 
Are you aware there was a Wimpy Wagon War in 1988-89? For those uninitiated, the Wimpy Wagon was a late-night burgers etc truck parked in front of DellPlain. 
 
Details are hazy from the fog of battle, but I remember it like this: Wimpy, the truck's owner, was doing well and upgraded to the Ziggy Wagon, a vehicle with double the griddle space etc. It wasn't as charming. The wimpy wagon was yellow and had Popeye drawings on it. A bunch of old stickers that students had slapped on it. It had charm. But it was gone. And instead, "Wimpy" was there in the Ziggy Wagon (the guy's name was Zigfeld or something), a newer shinier truck with less charm but the same food. Maybe even a few more offerings. Whatever. Same difference ...
 
Until, like six months later, the guy who had bought the Wimpy Wagon pulled up behind the Ziggy Wagon and opened for business. Apparently breaking some verbal agreement to park elsewhere. It got ugly. All the students were like, Yay, Wimpy's back and lined up at the old truck -- as the Ziggy Wagon did zilch for business. So Ziggy goes apeshit, plastering the side of the Ziggy Wagon with extra signs saying "I'm the Real Wimpy!" and "Don't Go To the Fake 'Wimpy!' " 
 
Which just played weird, since the truck right behind him said Wimpy Wagon right on it. Even though Ziggy was probably in the right legally, everyone thought he was lame for becoming Ziggy and bashing neo-Wimpy so everyone backed the bogus Wimpy anyway and "original Wimpy" Ziggy finally had to bail somewhere else.
 

benhogan

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I'm surprised to not see Archie's listed, always seemed to stay open late and was a last ditch effort on your way back from Faegan's to grab a slice.
 
Zorba's - toasted hot pastrami dripping with oil and vinegar down my sleeve, very tasty.
 
Varsity wings were good but Sal's had the steroid wings, sometimes with feathers attached, swimming in Sassy. Don't forget about the wedges, leave them soaking in Sassy while you work on the wings.  Also they delivered in less then 30 minutes, think their phone # was 477-FAST
 
Bonzai Pizza introduced Hawaiian pizza to me, still a favorite of mine.
 
Ennis not going pro would be a shocker, but Jimmy has a point, Johnny Flynn could have used an extra year.
 
I'm more optimistic then the rest of you about the Pitt game, think its a coin toss, looking forward to seeing how Roberson and Gbinije play.
 

Otto

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I vaguely remember hearing about the wagon war, but that's about it.  The one I went to was the one on Walnut Park, near the library, with the red-headed dude running it.  
 
I don't think Flynn has that much in common with Ennis, but I'll still note that Flynn played two seasons.
 
Ennis has great instincts and feel for the game, but he still needs to develop the skills players need to play at the next level, when you can't get by on instincts and feel.  To name the easy ones: he has to improve his jump shot and I think prove he can score in the lane after he's put the ball on the floor and broken down a defense.  I don't think he would be a lottery pick at this stage of his development, and that's the real test: not whether he's actually ready, but whether a team will invest that pick.  Flynn figured out that a team would.  I suspect Ennis would not be taken that high, not with this draft class and not from what he's shown so far.
 

Doooweeeey!

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Haha, thanks for all the memories, boys.  I'm class of '87.  Newhouse and A&S...
Favorite watering hole was by far Hungry Chuck's.  Faegan's second.  
Acropolis and Archie's for puke prevention.  Best traditional Buffalo wings were at a place on Westcott Street (not FastBreak).  Acropolis? (no relation?)
 
Saw The Police, The Grateful Dead, David Bowie and The Who at the Dome.
Was on campus for a reunion in '95 when the Orange made it to the Final.  
Was hanging with some fraternity brothers (FIJI) at the Sheraton and after the semifinal win (the Cipolla shot?) wandered over to M Street where a raucous crowd gathered to hang and celebrate.
Good times.
 
I think this Keita injury will hurt, but hopefully not for long.  He's an important piece, being a senior an all.
 
Oh, and I think I had a Cheese Jaw from the Original Wimpy Wagon once.  Meh.
 

LeftyTG

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Otto said:
I vaguely remember hearing about the wagon war, but that's about it.  The one I went to was the one on Walnut Park, near the library, with the red-headed dude running it.  
 
I don't think Flynn has that much in common with Ennis, but I'll still note that Flynn played two seasons.
 
Ennis has great instincts and feel for the game, but he still needs to develop the skills players need to play at the next level, when you can't get by on instincts and feel.  To name the easy ones: he has to improve his jump shot and I think prove he can score in the lane after he's put the ball on the floor and broken down a defense.  I don't think he would be a lottery pick at this stage of his development, and that's the real test: not whether he's actually ready, but whether a team will invest that pick.  Flynn figured out that a team would.  I suspect Ennis would not be taken that high, not with this draft class and not from what he's shown so far.
I agree with this take on Ennis.  In a way, I think Ennis is a bit overrated, in that much of what makes him stand out is how "unfreshmanlike" his game is.  He is mature in his thinking and decision making and doesn't struggle with going too fast or trying to do too much, in the way a typical freshman needs to adjust.  That doesn't take anything away from Ennis, but I think a big part of his narrative is not just his game, but his game relative to the expectations of a freshman.  If he were a junior or senior, he'd be seen as a great, solid college player but I don't think there would be the same gushing.  Of course, he isn't a junior or senior, and as a freshman he has much room to mature in his body and sharpen his skills.  He still has projection and potential on his side.  But right now he is a game manager, which isn't a bad thing of course.  He's a very good game manager.  But since he'll never be a "wow" athlete, he's going to have to prove that he is a game manager with certain skills if he is going to be worth a lottery pick (especially in this loaded class).  Otherwise he is just a decent backup PG in the NBA.  I think he has what it takes to sharpen his shot and do more getting to the rim and creating offense for teammates, but he is going to need to get stronger and prove he can do those things.  If you believe Boeheim, it seems that Ennis and his father realize this.
 

ivanvamp

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Jul 18, 2005
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While waiting for the game tomorrow night, I'm just enjoying this classic SU game:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9RgGPrCDyw
 

Warning Track Speed

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Fantastic win at Pitt. What a shot. Man. Those are the moments that make you think.... you know. 
 
A loss wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world, but that was way, way cooler. I sure like this team.
 

LeoCarrillo

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Good, lord. Starting to get a 2013 Sox feel-good feeling about this team.
 

Greg29fan

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Hell of a shot make by Ennis - Dixon calling timeout after the two free throws when you guys were out of them is a fire-able offense.
 

Rossox

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Greg29fan said:
Hell of a shot make by Ennis - Dixon calling timeout after the two free throws when you guys were out of them is a fire-able offense.
Jimmy doesn't usually like to call TO in those circumstances anyway.
 

LeftyTG

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Greg29fan said:
Hell of a shot make by Ennis - Dixon calling timeout after the two free throws when you guys were out of them is a fire-able offense.
agreed.  I also was cursing when Christmas and Grant were in the game and Gbinije was on the bench for that last play...but I'm not complaining now.
 

DukeSox

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I mean...wow

Plus, now Duke has to play at UNC 48 hours before Duke plays Cuse which clearly helps Cuse in Cameron. Think Cuse could easily be undefeated into the ACC
 

LeftyTG

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DukeSox said:
I mean...wow

Plus, now Duke has to play at UNC 48 hours before Duke plays Cuse which clearly helps Cuse in Cameron. Think Cuse could easily be undefeated into the ACC
wow, didn't realize the way that lined up.  You're right, that absolutely is an advantage for Syracuse.  But I still don't think Syracuse is winning that game in Cameron.  Sooner or later the grind of these close games and being undefeated is going to catch up to them.  
 

ivanvamp

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Jul 18, 2005
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Amazing game, unbelievable shot.  My daughters and I were watching it on my iPad at Starbuck's (there are reasons why we were there doing that) and when Ennis' shot went in, we all screamed and the entire place turned and looked at us like, what in the world??
 
It was awesome.  
 

Greg29fan

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DukeSox said:
Plus, now Duke has to play at UNC 48 hours before Duke plays Cuse which clearly helps Cuse in Cameron. Think Cuse could easily be undefeated into the ACC
That's your own team's fault
 

Overlord

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Class of '94. What a great game. I've been rewatching those final 4.4 seconds over and over.

I miss Syracuse home games, though not living in Brewster my freshman year with all those prank fire alarms in the dead of winter.