2013-2014 Syracuse Basketball: Same Zone, New Conference

ivanvamp · Mar 4, 2014

Ok, I can't get the game at all, not on TV or on espn.com. But I am looking at the score and I see Georgia Tech, a 13-16 team, leading SU 28-23.

Now this crap is starting to piss me off. Losing at Duke and Virginia is one thing. Losing at home to the uber-sucky Boston College and the nearly equally sucky Georgia Tech is another thing altogether.

Time to get your crap together, gentlemen, or it'll be a VERY quick exit from the NCAA tournament, regardless of your seeding.

mabrowndog · Mar 4, 2014

ivanvamp said:
Ok, I can't get the game at all, not on TV or on espn.com. But I am looking at the score and I see Georgia Tech, a 13-16 team, leading SU 28-23.

Down a dozen now, 48-36 with 11:14 left. Can you say free fall?

I've been meeting suggestions that Cuse could fall out of a 2-seed with a dismissive eye roll, but a loss here coupled with any struggles in the ACCT will certainly get it done.

Rossox · Mar 4, 2014

Free fall indeed. This team could realistically be in the middle of a 7 game losing streak right now.

ivanvamp · Mar 4, 2014

Definitely. Good chance, with how they're playing lately, that they lose their last regular season game, then at best to 1-1 in the ACC tourney. That's a 3 or maybe even a 4 seed!

Collapse down the stretch of this season. Good grief it's painful to watch.

LeoCarrillo · Mar 4, 2014

I'd take a 3 seed and a healthy Grant. Wow. Cooney has dropped the slack.

Is it really not possible to get more than two FG attempts from Christmas all night with no Grant in the game? Is this guy not capable of baby-hooking his way to 8 or 10 a game? Maybe an alley oop ? I feel like we haven't had one since Carter-Williams.

Gbinije sucks too. There. Someone had to say it.

ivanvamp · Mar 4, 2014

Losing Coleman is really starting to hurt us. And Grant's absence is enormous. Can't be overstated.

So yes, Leo, I'll take a 3 seed and a healthy Grant. The problem is that they could end up with a 4 seed and still have an injured and ineffective Grant, and get bumped in the first round of the NCAA tournament.

bsj · Mar 5, 2014

I'm sorry but the biggest failure of the Boeheim era is his refusal to build bench depth. A 7 man rotation means that this team is far more impacted by 1 or 2 injuries than others. For Pete's sake, it would be one thing if we lost Ennis and Fair. But Grant and Coleman? Grant may be the 3rd most valuable player on this team but Coleman was maybe what, 7? 8? This team has one of the most dynamic (in theory) point guards in the country but has no ability to create offense.

If this team had lost only the Duke and VA game, I'd says, hey, bad luck, injuries happen, lets reload and move on.

But the BC and Ga Tech (in particular) losses were, frankly, an embarrassment. Losses to VASTLY inferior teams at home? I hope we don't get a 1 seed (I doubt we will) because this is a team ripe for a 1st round NCAA loss and I really don't want to be the first 1 to lose to a 16.

Rossox · Mar 5, 2014

I think this failure is a direct result of his main success - the 2-3 zone. He recruits, as we know, certain players for the zone but some of them (e.g. Roberson) don't grasp it right away. He has said on more than one occasion that Roberson is not helping this team on offense or defense. Probably why you see so many players of late ride the pine their frosh years and then explode into impact players during their soph campaigns (MCW, Fab, Waiters, etc.). These kids are learning on the fly a completely new system and Jimmy is impatient.

I hate to put the blame on one single player, but a lot of the offensive ineptitude of late falls squarely on Cooney's shoulders. Ennis & Fair are playing on fumes and yet are still consistently putting up 15-20 points a game. We know they can't win playing 2 on 5. Cooney has one role on this team - to make friggin 3's. His role is only heightened because it's a particularly bad shooting team, which is why he is getting so many minutes. If he cannot make 3-4 3's a game then with or without Grant, they're not going anywhere.

Also agree w/ Leo on the complete lack of offense from Christmas. The kid, like so many centers over the past decade, is an enigma. Freak athlete but he hasn't grown as a player at all.

Two consecutive losses at home to sub .500 teams is pretty inexcusable.

ivanvamp · Mar 5, 2014

As down on them as I am right now, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they make a final four run, assuming Grant comes back. If he comes back healthy, he should have fresh legs. Fair is consistently good, Ennis is solid, and, again, assuming Grant is healthy and fresh, all we need is for Cooney to get on track. If he starts shooting well, this team can still do a lot of damage in the tournament.

But with him ice cold, and with Grant out, they're ripe for a first or second round exit.

Dgilpin · Mar 5, 2014

I know it's not the same exact team , but remember Cuse went through a similar slide the end of last season losing 4 of 5 with the only win coming against lowly DePaul. Look at the slump Wisconsin went through in January. These skids are not uncommon in college bball, I would not be surprised at all to see Cuse make a long run in the tournament .

luckysox · Mar 5, 2014

They do need Grant back. If they get him back healthy, I agree with Dgilpin. No one thought this was a team that should destroy other teams. Great defense, eh offense, and with one key guy hurt and one key guy in a terrible shooting slump - well, here we are. It happens. Don't pull up stakes and run off with all your 'Cuse gear yet, though. Slumps happen. Then sometimes winning streaks happen, and at this time of year, a turn around could mean a deep run.

ivanvamp · Mar 9, 2014

Ok boys, can we please win a game today? Pretty please? Thanks in advance.

luckysox · Mar 9, 2014

The offense looked a bit better today. Hopefully that helps them get a little swagger back in their walk.

LeoCarrillo · Mar 9, 2014

Did Grant look healthy?

mabrowndog · Mar 9, 2014

Here's the tournament schedule. I've highlighted all the potential match-ups for Cuse.

Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC)
All games at Greensboro Coliseum, Greensboro NC ... All times EDT ... In addition to the ESPN family of networks, all games will also air on the Raycom ACC Network.

First Round - Weds, March 12
01:00 pm - Game 1 - #12 Wake Forest vs #13 Notre Dame (ESPNU)
03:30 pm - Game 2 - #10 Miami FL vs #15 Virginia Tech (ESPNU)
07:00 pm - Game 3 - #11 Georgia Tech vs #14 Boston College (ESPNU)

Second Round - Thur, March 13
12:00 pm - Game 4 - #8 Maryland vs #9 Florida State (ESPNU)
02:00 pm - Game 5 - #5 Pittsburgh vs Game 1 winner (ESPNU)
07:00 pm - Game 6 - #7 N.C. State vs Game 2 winner (ESPNU)
09:00 pm - Game 7 - #6 Clemson vs Game 3 winner (ESPNU)

Quarterfinals - Fri, March 14
12:00 pm - Game 8 - #1 Virginia vs Game 4 winner (ESPN2)
02:00 pm - Game 9 - #4 North Carolina vs Game 5 winner (ESPN2)
07:00 pm - Game 10 - #2 Syracuse vs Game 6 winner (ESPN2)
09:00 pm - Game 11 - #3 Duke vs Game 7 winner (ESPN2)

Semifinals - Sat, March 15
01:00 pm - Game 12 - Game 8 winner vs Game 9 winner (ESPN)
03:00 pm - Game 13 - Game 10 winner vs Game 11 winner (ESPN)

Championship - Sun, March 16
01:00 pm - Game 12 winner vs Game 13 winner (ESPN)

ivanvamp · Mar 9, 2014

By the way, today showed what a healthy Grant means to this team. Instead of a loss at home to a below average squad, it's a really good win on the road against a quality opponent. Just a different team with him in there healthy.

benhogan · Mar 9, 2014

ivanvamp said:
By the way, today showed what a healthy Grant means to this team. Instead of a loss at home to a below average squad, it's a really good win on the road against a quality opponent. Just a different team with him in there healthy.

The 2 largest variables to this team going forward are Grants' back and Cooneys' jump shot.

With a healthy Grant this is a solid top 10 team.

With a healthy Grant and Cooney hitting 3s, probably the best team in the country.

ivanvamp · Mar 10, 2014

benhogan said:
The 2 largest variables to this team going forward are Grants' back and Cooneys' jump shot.

With a healthy Grant this is a solid top 10 team.

With a healthy Grant and Cooney hitting 3s, probably the best team in the country.

Unfortunately, Cooney hasn't been good at shooting threes for a full month now. On 2/9 against Clemson he was 3-7. Since then, here's his 3-point shooting lines:

3-8 (.375)
2-6 (.333)
1-6 (.167)
0-3 (.000)
2-10 (.200)
3-10 (.300)
1-8 (.125)
2-8 (.250)

TOT: 14-59 (.237)

SU is 4-4 over that stretch.

He had scored in double digits in 20 of his first 24 games, but just once in his last seven, during which time SU is 3-4.

In other words, Cooney is a critical piece for this team, as you point out. I'd love to see more dribble penetration and kick out to him for spot up shots, because he doesn't seem to be getting great looks racing around screens.

luckysox · Mar 10, 2014

LeoCarrillo said:
Did Grant look healthy?

Eh. Somewhat, but not all the way. But he is the difference maker for this team.

LeoCarrillo · Mar 10, 2014

Wow, no. 11 in the poll. We're a 4-loss team that's behind a 5, a 6, two 7s and an 8-loss team.

Feeling a little underloved. Guess that means 3 seed unless we win an ACC semi, over Duke presumably, and then id think we're a 2.

ivanvamp · Mar 10, 2014

No love indeed. It's funny - it's almost always about WHEN you are playing well more than your actual record and resume. Because SU's resume is pretty stellar.

Oh well. Get to the ACC Championship game and all is good.

Rossox · Mar 11, 2014

Still can't believe this conference tournament is in Greensboro, NC.

Think about it, Saturday night at MSG vs. 1pm on a Sunday in Greensboro, NC.

Shesh, what a let down.

DukeSox · Mar 11, 2014

Go to Greensboro. You'll change your mind. The entire town buzzes the whole week like the host city of a Final Four weekend, with fans of every team inundating and interacting across the town, everywhere and every minute you are there. It's a college basketball playground, and you can't escape it.

In NYC, walk 2 blocks away from MSG and it's just taxis and subway exhaust.

ivanvamp · Mar 12, 2014

I don't care if it's on the moon. I just want SU to reach the final at least.

LeoCarrillo · Mar 12, 2014

Okay, so Cuse gets the NC State-Miami winner.

Beat Mia (17-15, 8-11 ACC) by 5 at the Dome. Beat NC St. (19-12, 9-9) by 1 at the Dome.

Bring on the Canes.

benhogan · Mar 12, 2014

ivanvamp said:
No love indeed. It's funny - it's almost always about WHEN you are playing well more than your actual record and resume. Because SU's resume is pretty stellar.

Oh well. Get to the ACC Championship game and all is good.

Since Feb.1st, when an undefeated #2 Syracuse played #17 Duke, Syracuse has gone 7-4 and Duke has gone 7-3.

Some of the highlights/lowlights in that span:

Syracuse beat a ranked Pitt team in Pitt, beat Duke at home, lost to Duke away, lost to a ranked Virginia away, and lost to BC/GTech at home.

Duke beat a ranked UNC at home, beat Syracuse at home, lost to Syracuse away, lost to an unranked UNC away, and lost to Wake away.

Syracuse also lost a potential first-round player in Jeremy Grant for a good amount of time in some of their losses. He looks healthy now after the Florida State trouncing.

Syracuse is now ranked #11 and Duke #7, so Duke has climbed 10 spots and Syracuse has dropped 9 spots since Feb.1

Look forward to playing Duke in North Carolina again, which will be considered a neutral court, excuse me while I go vomit.

tims4wins · Mar 12, 2014

As had been mentioned before, everyone roots against Duke in these settings. Everyone. One year they played the NCAA first and second rounds in either Raleigh or G'boro and UNC was also there. It was like Duke was playing a road game and they weren't even playing against UNC.

benhogan · Mar 12, 2014

tims4wins said:
As had been mentioned before, everyone roots against Duke in these settings. Everyone. One year they played the NCAA first and second rounds in either Raleigh or G'boro and UNC was also there. It was like Duke was playing a road game and they weren't even playing against UNC.

Save it buddy.

Thats because Duke was probably a top seed, and 3/4 of the fans want the top seed to go down in the NCAAs in the first 2 rounds. Cuse has been there and done that in the tournament.

Anything below the Mason-Dixon Line, and 'Northern Yankee scum' like Syracuse will be at a decided disadvantage.

DukeSox · Mar 12, 2014

Been there done that like when Cuse lost to Vermont? That time?

benhogan · Mar 13, 2014

DukeSox said:
Been there done that like when Cuse lost to Vermont? That time?

Nope that was a #4 vs a #13.

I was thinking about the #15 Richmond game in 1991, before your time, right?

The game he is probably talking about was 2012 game vs. #15 Lehigh in Greensboro, right?

tims4wins · Mar 13, 2014

Everyone who isn't a Duke fan hates Duke. Period. I was at the 2004 Final Four. Figured the Georgia Tech fans would support Duke after Duke fans supported Georgia Tech in the opener. Nooope.

DukeSox · Mar 13, 2014

benhogan said:
I was thinking about the #15 Richmond game in 1991, before your time, right?

Rossox · Mar 13, 2014

benhogan said:
Since Feb.1st, when an undefeated #2 Syracuse played #17 Duke, Syracuse has gone 7-4 and Duke has gone 7-3.

Some of the highlights/lowlights in that span:

Syracuse beat a ranked Pitt team in Pitt, beat Duke at home, lost to Duke away, lost to a ranked Virginia away, and lost to BC/GTech at home.

Duke beat a ranked UNC at home, beat Syracuse at home, lost to Syracuse away, lost to an unranked UNC away, and lost to Wake away.

Syracuse also lost a potential first-round player in Jeremy Grant for a good amount of time in some of their losses. He looks healthy now after the Florida State trouncing.

Syracuse is now ranked #11 and Duke #7, so Duke has climbed 10 spots and Syracuse has dropped 9 spots since Feb.1

Look forward to playing Duke in North Carolina again, which will be considered a neutral court, excuse me while I go vomit.

If the season ended today then I would agree about this being shady. However, if they both win on Friday then the above is irrelevant. The winner on Sat will get the #2 seed in the East w/ an outside shot at a #1 IMO if they run the table. Syracuse would be 30-4 w/ a very strong resume. You'd have to think that's an automatic #1 seed.

Of course they could just as easily lose to NC St. tomorrow, especially if Grant's back takes a turn for the worse.

bsj · Mar 13, 2014

So....this is overly simplistic, and I know there is a LOT more that goes into this...but is the following scenario reasonable?

Lose Qtrs- 4 (reach 3) seed
Lose Semis- 3 seed
Lose Final- 2 seed
Win Tourney- 1 seed

There is probably some wiggle room....

Rossox · Mar 13, 2014

You're right, I'd definitely say there is some wiggle room depending upon how the other conference tourneys shake up. If they lose to Duke in a close game then their final record would be 28-5. That's a borderline 2 seed IMO, but they'll need help.

A #1 would be nice, but right now I am just hoping for a #2 in the East. More importantly, I am hoping that Grant's back is close to 100% and Cooney finds his friggin' shooting stroke.

Otto · Mar 13, 2014

One fan's opinion: I can't stand all the talk about "we are ranked ABC and they are ranked XYZ, even though ... [etc., etc., and etc.]."

I don't even care about seeding.

Win a game or two in the conference tournament, get Grant healthy, and get Cooney to hit some 3's. Everything else is just noise, because we could be the #1 team with the #1 seed and play the entire tournament at the Dome ... if Grant isn't healthy and Cooney continues to stink, it won't matter because it would be short run.

And just to contradict myself and comment on irrelevant stuff: we didn't deserve to win the game at Duke anyway, refs, fans, and conspiracy theories notwithstanding. They were better that day. Nor would it matter today if we had managed to win: because Grant and Cooney are still very much question marks that will determine what happens from here.

bsj · Mar 13, 2014

Otto said:
One fan's opinion: I can't stand all the talk about "we are ranked ABC and they are ranked XYZ, even though ... [etc., etc., and etc.]."

I don't even care about seeding.

Win a game or two in the conference tournament, get Grant healthy, and get Cooney to hit some 3's. Everything else is just noise, because we could be the #1 team with the #1 seed and play the entire tournament at the Dome ... if Grant isn't healthy and Cooney continues to stink, it won't matter because it would be short run.

And just to contradict myself and comment on irrelevant stuff: we didn't deserve to win the game at Duke anyway, refs, fans, and conspiracy theories notwithstanding. They were better that day. Nor would it matter today if we had managed to win: because Grant and Cooney are still very much question marks that will determine what happens from here.

I want Buffalo (which is a lock thanks to pods) and New York (which is far from it) regardless of seed. Would I rather a 3 than a 4? Hell yes. Do I care if I am a 2 or a 3? Not really.

ivanvamp · Mar 13, 2014

bsj said:
I want Buffalo (which is a lock thanks to pods) and New York (which is far from it) regardless of seed. Would I rather a 3 than a 4? Hell yes. Do I care if I am a 2 or a 3? Not really.

This. Location locals location. Buffalo and MSG is the dream scenario, regardless of seed.

LeoCarrillo · Mar 13, 2014

Buffalo for the first two is gravy. Just get into the East bracket for the regional at MSG.

With Nova out, I'd think the ACC tourney champ (UVa, Cuse or Duke) gets the East No. 1 over even Louisville. I hope.

benhogan · Mar 13, 2014

DukeSox said:

Tims, I go to a Syracuse thread and have to see this, and you question why the whole nation hates Duke?

Face it, they are the NY Yankees disguised as college basketball players… I think Bernie Williams is somewhere in the background.

Take it as a compliment, they win a ton and its a damn good school academically.

tims4wins · Mar 13, 2014

benhogan said:
Tims, I go to a Syracuse thread and have to see this, and you question why the whole nation hates Duke?

Face it, they are the NY Yankees disguised as college basketball players… I think Bernie Williams is somewhere in the background.

Take it as a compliment, they win a ton and its a damn good school academically.

Um I didn't post that, and no, I don't question why the whole nation hates Duke - I was, in fact, pointing out that the whole nation DOES hate Duke, so you have no reason to complain about potentially playing Duke in Greensboro on a "neutral" court. Duke will in no way have a home court advantage for that game.

The Filthy One · Mar 14, 2014

I really hope CJ Fair can turn it around in the NCAA tournament. For a guy who played a big role on a Final Four team, this is a depressing coda to his career. He is 2-12 tonight so far. 2. For. 12.

DukeSox · Mar 14, 2014

give it a few more misses and he can approach JJ redick territory

ivanvamp · Mar 14, 2014

Gads. SU playing so poorly down the stretch here. Bad shots, bad turnovers. State banking in a three doesn't exactly help.

ivanvamp · Mar 14, 2014

Just an unbelievable sequence at the end. Ennis was fouled. No call. Grant misses the dunk outback. Cooney gets it, passes up a wide open three. They get another chance. Fair misses a wide open three. Another chance. Cooney misses a corner three. They get another chance. Cooney misses another wild three.

Five missed chances, including a drive where they should have gotten a foul call, a dunk, a wide open three, and two rushed threes.

Ridiculous.

EDIT: Forgot that Ennis missed a three pointer in there as well. SIX opportunities.

LeoCarrillo · Mar 14, 2014

4 seed.

ivanvamp · Mar 14, 2014

As I just posted in another thread: either SU loses in the first round or they get their s*** together and make a final four run.

No in-between.

DukeSox · Mar 14, 2014

Wasn't watching but the espn.com play by play was absurd for the last possession

2013-2014 Syracuse Basketball: Same Zone, New Conference

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