2013-14 Michigan Basketball: Big Ten Champions!

[sachmoney]

I honestly like the way Michigan State plays. I mean, I get why people would say they are "thuggish" but I like the way they play. Adreian Payne was probably one of my favorite players in the B1G. I've sort of cooled on their hype though. They looked incredible in the final, but I don't think they'll carry it through out the tournament. I have them going out in the Sweet Sixteen.

 

[Granite Sox]

 
That's really the answer.  I mean, I hate MSU more than I can possibly articulate, but I can't kill their kids for how they acted after they won the tourney. 
 
Izzo doesn't really bother me, but that's probably more of a reflection of the fact that Tom Crean breathes air in the same conference.  (Well, for now at least.)

 
Yeah... Izzo is annoying.  He gives me the impression that he knows the camera will be on him, so he goes all hysterical to pander to the crowd and audience.  He knows better.
 
I reserve a special kind of contempt for Crean, however.  Such a phony.  The Boo-Hoosiers are now beginning to understand that the emperor may not be wearing any clothes...
 

I honestly like the way Michigan State plays. I mean, I get why people would say they are "thuggish" but I like the way they play. Adreian Payne was probably one of my favorite players in the B1G. I've sort of cooled on their hype though. They looked incredible in the final, but I don't think they'll carry it through out the tournament. I have them going out in the Sweet Sixteen.

 
I agree.  I hate Sparty, but I respect their toughness.  I also agree that the physical B1G style won't play all the way through the tournament.  Meaning I think some games will be officiated like they are for other conferences, while other games they'll let'em play. Hard to predict, but MSU may need to modulate how much they barrel into other players or drape themselves (literally) over the ball possessor.
 
Conversely, Michigan's lack of physicality will be more and more of a concern as they go deeper into the tournament due to the teams they're likely to play.  It's a very risky play to think you can just shoot your way to the 'ship.

 

[sachmoney]

I reserve a special kind of contempt for Crean, however.  Such a phony.  The Boo-Hoosiers are now beginning to understand that the emperor may not be wearing any clothes...
 
Conversely, Michigan's lack of physicality will be more and more of a concern as they go deeper into the tournament due to the teams they're likely to play.  It's a very risky play to think you can just shoot your way to the 'ship.

I hate Crean too. I don't really have hatred for Indiana itself, but Crean, oh yeah!
 
It's not just the lack of physicality, but just the sheer fact that all of these teams are good. Michigan is the 2 seed, but there are 5 teams (Wichita, Kentucky, Louisville, Tennessee, Duke) above them going by KenPom pythag. They are going to play some good ass teams. I hope they win, and I hope it turns out that they exceed my expectations like last year. Honestly, a win over Duke would be great, but that's where I have the bus stopping.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Solid win, very methodical. gr3 continued to exert a bigger impact on the game (was 6/14 from the field at one point, don't know how he finished). Thought j mo played a terrific game, nik was hitting, Walton looked a little jittery at first to me, but he settled down. There was a sketchy stretch in 2nd half where the lead got down to 8 or 10, but if those are your complaints, they aren't complaints. Great day of ball so far (here here for ohio going down and old friend amaker getting a nice win).

 

[sachmoney]

Eh, it was a boring win and they didn't play well (besides JMo). They'll need better on Saturday to beat Texas or Arizona State. Wofford shot woefully and it's no doubt that if Michigan faced a better opponent and played like they did, they would be on upset alert. If this was them getting their tournament jitters out, good. There were a lot of them on display.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Not to get too far ahead, but DOOK losing today really opened the bracket for UM. UM's path wasn't too bad to begin with, but now anything less than a trip to the Elite 8 will seem like a missed opportunity.

 

[Dgilpin]

Great win , when Michigan shoots like that they can beat anyone in the country. Good to see GR3 continue to put up quality games. Spike was also a real stabilizing force in the second half when Texas went on a few runs. Jordan Morgan also deserves some props for putting up a really nice game against Texas frontline.

 

[sachmoney]

Morgan has played two of his best games in a Michigan uniform to start the tournament. I really love what he's done thus far. This was a solid win and a much better performance than the first. Getting to the second week is always nice.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Props to Morgan and GR3 who both played outstanding games. Tennessee scares me quite a bit, but I'm hoping the 'give Beilein a week' meme holds true. Honestly, I think UM wins on Friday, but at this point, I think it's hard to look at Trey, THJR, and Mitch and not consider anything from here on out gravy. A rematch with Louisville would be a lot of fun, but I'm n ot counting UK out either.

 

[Dgilpin]

That was one of the most stressful games I can remember but HAIL TO THE VICTORS!!!

 

[Chief Wahoo]

This is certainly the wrong topic but I can't find a more appropriate one and it might be interesting to SOSH readers.
 
Bullpen Cop (Steve Horgan) is currently standing guard where the fire occurred two days ago at 298 Beacon.  He was there both at  6 & 9 pm when I was out walking my doggeh

 

[mgoblue2]

That was the nerviest I've seen them play in a close game this season. Solid W, Morgan and Horford will have to play very good games against the athleticism of Randle and Poythress.

 

[Average Reds]

This is certainly the wrong topic but I can't find a more appropriate one and it might be interesting to SOSH readers.
 
Bullpen Cop (Steve Horgan) is currently standing guard where the fire occurred two days ago at 298 Beacon.  He was there both at  6 & 9 pm when I was out walking my doggeh

 
Notwithstanding the disclaimer (which I don't believe in any case) this is about the most misplaced post I've ever seen and I am preserving it for that reason.

 

[LogansDad]

 
Notwithstanding the disclaimer (which I don't believe in any case) this is about the most misplaced post I've ever seen and I am preserving it for that reason.

But Michigan is going to the Elite 8.  BP Cop Steve was standing guard at both 6 and 9.  8 is between 6 and 9.  Ergo, relevance!!!
 
On topic, if you would have told me this team would be in the Elite 8 two years in a row three years ago, I would have laughed in your face.  I don't watch much, but they seem to be pretty young too.  The things Beilein has done with this program are awesome, even if they took a while (I honestly had no idea he was hired in 2007), and kudos to the program for sticking with him.
 
Now go beat Kentucky tomorrow.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

Let's do this.

 

[Dgilpin]

Disappointing but an incredible run , great to see Michigan up there as an elite program in college bball again

 

[RIrooter09]

Sorry guys, you deserved better.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

Tough ending to a roller-coaster ride of a year. Now we'll probably lose Stauskas, GR3, and McGary. Hoping Mitch decides being a second-rounder isn't worth it, and comes back, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[Zososoxfan]

I don't claim to know much about transition from the college to the pro game, but Caris seems like a 1st rounder to me. I'd also be slightly surprised to see Mitch go.

As for the game, just a roller coaster. Could've really used Mitch today. Played very well but Kentucky couldn't miss 3s at the end of the game. Still a huge success of a season.

 

[sachmoney]

Tough loss. I'm dizzy and out of breathe. Proud of the kids. They played their hearts out.

 

[Dgilpin]

Even if all 3 of GR3 , Nik , and Mitch go and I don't think all three leave (probably 2 out of 3). Walton , Irvin, and LeVert are a hell of of a core for next year . Beilein has this program in a good place .

 

[sachmoney]

Even if all 3 of GR3 , Nik , and Mitch go and I don't think all three leave (probably 2 out of 3). Walton , Irvin, and LeVert are a hell of of a core for next year . Beilein has this program in a good place .

Don't forget Spike!
 

Wouldn't it make more sense for McGary to come back, re-establish his value, and leave in 2015?

Conventional thinking would say yes.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

A "source" tells espn.com Nik is leaving, but Nik himself vehemently denies having made a decision. Great journalism here; way to get the scoop, guys.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

JFC, Horford transferring. Really need Mitch to come back now.

 

[Dgilpin]

JFC, Horford transferring. Really need Mitch to come back now.

I feel that this is a pretty strong indication Mitch is coming back . Horford is probably looking for a situation where he can get significant minutes his last season, he's due to graduate this spring so he won't have to sit out a year. Horford's comments about the program lead me to believe there wasn't any bad blood with Beilien. Mark Donnal is also coming off his redshirt and was a pretty highly regarded recruit (top 100), him , McGary and Beilfeldt should give them a solid big man rotation.

 

[sachmoney]

IF GR3 stays, we have a team capable of winning everything imo. That's accounting for improvement from Walton and Irvin, though we know Walton is the guy that has to improve the most.

 

[Dgilpin]

GR3 has signed with an agent and will be entering the draft. One year too late for GR3 not that I didn't enjoy having him around last season . I do think he will be a good pro , but I don't think his talents were maximized with his time at Michigan. He doesn't really have the body to play the 4, something he was asked to do the last 2 years without complaining and I do think he was going to significantly improve his draft stock with another year in college. The biggest domino is McGary , if he does come back I still feel they can be really good next year (this is assuming Nik is as good as gone )

 

[sachmoney]

Stauskas presser is tomorrow, not sure if GR3 will announce then as well. Hopefully Mitch stays. Hopefully.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

Nik and GR3 both gone. Mitch still undecided.

 

[Dan Murfman]

Mitch gone. Because he flunked marijuana test and was going to be suspended a year.
 
 
 

One night in mid-March, with the NCAA tournament about to begin without him, McGary was hanging out with a group of friends at Michigan. He had a few drinks. Someone offered some marijuana – a common occurrence, he said, on campus.
"I always turned it down," McGary told Yahoo Sports. "But that night I didn't."
Less than two weeks later, McGary "dressed" for the Wolverines' Sweet 16 game against Tennessee. He was never going to play, but coach John Beilein thought the sight of him in maize and blue on the sideline, pumping up his teammates, would add some enthusiasm. Michigan eked out a 73-71 win.
Amid the post-victory celebration, an NCAA representative told McGary that he, of all people, had been selected to undergo a random drug test, even though he hadn't played in months.
A week later, after Michigan was knocked out of the tournament, McGary was contemplating whether to enter the NBA draft or return for his junior season. Coming back would allow him to prove his back was fine and continue enjoying life in Ann Arbor. His play could bolster his NBA draft stock. It was an attractive option.
That's when he was called into a meeting with Beilein and athletic director Dave Brandon. They told him he failed the drug test during the NCAA tournament. Then they informed him of the NCAA's harsh penalty for a first failed test: a minimum one-year suspension from all competition.
If he wanted to play college ball again, it wouldn't be until the 2015-16 season.
"The penalty is a year," McGary said.
No longer was there a debate about his future. McGary will enter the NBA draft by Sunday's deadline, he told Yahoo Sports. He's confident in his future, but says he didn't really have a choice. The NCAA penalty cemented the decision for him.

 
 
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mitch-mcgary-heading-to-nba-after-positive-marijuana-test-nets-him-shocking-year-long-ncaa-ban-073833742.html

 

[WayBackVazquez]

No words.

 

[Zososoxfan]

derp if there ever was one.

 

[Average Reds]

I have a few words.

 

[Dgilpin]

It's a dumb mistake , including the decision to let him dress. But really NCAA ... 1 year for smoking weed.

 

[RedOctober3829]

It's a dumb mistake , including the decision to let him dress. But really NCAA ... 1 year for smoking weed.

It's not the weed.  If you test positive for any banned substance during any NCAA Tournament, you are automatically suspended for 1 year from the date of the failed test.  Players are told this multiple times both at the start of the season and before the NCAA's. 

 

[Zososoxfan]

It's a dumb mistake , including the decision to let him dress. But really NCAA ... 1 year for smoking weed.

 
Also, didn't matter that he dressed - he could've been tested if he was in street clothes or if he had stayed in AA.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

Also, didn't matter that he dressed - he could've been tested if he was in street clothes or if he had stayed in AA.

Not sure this is right. This was part of tournament testing, and would only happen at a tournament site.

Tourney testing is different from year-round testing, which doesn't test for weed.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

It's not the weed.  If you test positive for any banned substance during any NCAA Tournament, you are automatically suspended for 1 year from the date of the failed test.  Players are told this multiple times both at the start of the season and before the NCAA's.

What's that got to do with the belief that imposing a one-year ban for a positive marijuana test is utterly outrageous?

 

[RIrooter09]

I'm shocked that we don't see more of these suspensions.  There must be a good supply of clean urine floating around. 

 

[RedOctober3829]

What's that got to do with the belief that imposing a one-year ban for a positive marijuana test is utterly outrageous?

Your belief, or anyone's belief, about the ban is irrelevant.  It's the rule.  Doesn't matter if it's steroids or weed or anything else.  You get a year ban regardless.  The players are well aware about this too.  Hell, you can get a year suspension for drinking an energy drink because there's banned substances in those as well.  Is that ridiculous?  Yes, but it's the rule and everybody knows. 
 
In short, Mitch McGary is an idiot.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

Your belief, or anyone's belief, about the ban is irrelevant.  It's the rule.  Doesn't matter if it's steroids or weed or anything else.  You get a year ban regardless.  The players are well aware about this too.  Hell, you can get a year suspension for drinking an energy drink because there's banned substances in those as well.  Is that ridiculous?  Yes, but it's the rule and everybody knows. 
 
In short, Mitch McGary is an idiot.

No, a belief about a ridiculous NCAA is not irrelevant to an NCAA basketball discussion on a message board. It's kind of exactly what message boards are for. Nobody is saying he didn't break the rule, some of us are saying the rule is stupid. Because a rule is known and not vague doesn't make it any less stupid or disproportional.

Everybody knows lots of the NCAA rules are stupid, yet we talk about how stupid they are all the time.

 

[RedOctober3829]

No, a belief about a ridiculous NCAA is not irrelevant to an NCAA basketball discussion on a message board. It's kind of exactly what message boards are for. Nobody is saying he didn't break the rule, some of us are saying the rule is stupid. Because a rule is known and not vague doesn't make it any less stupid or disproportional.

Everybody knows lots of the NCAA rules are stupid, yet we talk about how stupid they are all the time.

There are a lot of stupid rules in the NCAA, but this is not one of them.  It's a standard penalty across the board so there's no room for interpretation and discussion.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

There are a lot of stupid rules in the NCAA, but this is not one of them.  It's a standard penalty across the board so there's no room for interpretation and discussion.

You seem to be having trouble with the idea that some/many/most people believe that having marijuana be part of a regime for which the "standard penalty" is a one-year suspension (which, by the way is no longer the case, in tacit acceptance of how disproportional it is) is stupid.

If a government passed a law saying all criminal penalties for every crime from jaywalking to murder are punishable by death, it would be stupid and utterly outrageous. Yes, you'd be taking a very unwise risk by jaywalking, but that wouldn't prevent us from thinking the government's execution of jaywalkers was outrageous.

 

[Dan Murfman]

There are a lot of stupid rules in the NCAA, but this is not one of them.  It's a standard penalty across the board so there's no room for interpretation and discussion.

It must be stupid as they're changing it to half a season (though that is still stupid)

 

[Zososoxfan]

Not sure this is right. This was part of tournament testing, and would only happen at a tournament site.

Tourney testing is different from year-round testing, which doesn't test for weed.

 

Beilein said the fear of the NCAA's one-year suspension is so significant it caused the program, which already tests relentlessly, to drug test the entire team prior to the Big Ten tournament.
 
"Just to make sure, we make a conscious choice to test everyone," Beilein said.
 
McGary, however, smoked between the Big Ten and NCAAs. During its tournament, the NCAA can test any player on a roster or in the team's traveling party – even players in street clothes not affecting the outcome of games.
 
McGary may have worn a uniform for the Tennessee game, but it didn't matter. The NCAA can demand a school test an injured player who remains back on campus.
 

 
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mitch-mcgary-heading-to-nba-after-positive-marijuana-test-nets-him-shocking-year-long-ncaa-ban-073833742.html

 

[WayBackVazquez]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mitch-mcgary-heading-to-nba-after-positive-marijuana-test-nets-him-shocking-year-long-ncaa-ban-073833742.html

Yeah, And I think the last sentence is wrong. I've looked at the NCAA materials available online as well as FAQs from universities online, and they all indicate testing is done at the site of the championship only:

For championship and postseason bowl-game testing, student- athletes will be selected from the official travel party roster, gate/credential list, championship participation sheets or official championship form.

Q: When is drug testing conducted at the championship?
A: Drug testing can occur at any phase of an NCAA championship. Testing is
conducted immediately after the event (for example, a game or a race) at that site.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Yeah, And I think the last sentence is wrong. I've looked at the NCAA materials available online as well as FAQs from universities online, and they all indicate testing is done at the site of the championship only:

For championship and postseason bowl-game testing, student- athletes will be selected from the official travel party roster, gate/credential list, championship participation sheets or official championship form.

 
That's fair and would make more sense, wanted to be clear I didn't just pull that out of nowehere. 

 

[RedOctober3829]

You seem to be having trouble with the idea that some/many/most people believe that having marijuana be part of a regime for which the "standard penalty" is a one-year suspension (which, by the way is no longer the case, in tacit acceptance of how disproportional it is) is stupid.

If a government passed a law saying all criminal penalties for every crime from jaywalking to murder are punishable by death, it would be stupid and utterly outrageous. Yes, you'd be taking a very unwise risk by jaywalking, but that wouldn't prevent us from thinking the government's execution of jaywalkers was outrageous.

We'll agree to disagree then.  I like the rule the way it is.  My feeling is that if you are smoking weed or doing banned substances as an athlete during the most important time of the season then you deserve the year ban. 

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

We'll agree to disagree then.  I like the rule the way it is.  My feeling is that if you are smoking weed or doing banned substances as an athlete during the most important time of the season then you deserve the year ban. 

 
I'm sure his guaranteed 2 million dollar contract will teach him an important lesson about the dangers of weed.

 

[Granite Sox]

He certainly won't be able to skip rookie orientation, that's fo sho.
 
Dumb choice?  Clearly.
 
Length of penalty match the "crime"?  Not even remotely.
 
My mind immediately flashed to Sweet Leaf (or any Florida Gator or rival-of-your-choice) and wonders how on Earth some of these kids have avoided this penalty.
 
I'm not suggesting Michigan's or the NCAA's "standards" are better or worse, just that with the known extracurricular activities of so many NFL and NBA players, how are the college kids getting around this?  I have to imagine "Bowl Week" has quite the double-meaning, yet you almost NEVER hear about kids getting suspended in NCAA football for this rule.
 
McGary comes across as a bit of a Good Time Charlie, but not as some chronic-addled ne'er-do-well...