2008 NFL Draft Game Thread, Day 2

Feb 28, 2003
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Right, but we're talking about 3rd and 4th rounders...and a number of reaches. A number of late round picks also branch out. The Pats have made a lot of selections on QBs over the years since we took Brady and it seems they never really are sold on those picks. But to grab a guy here is a head scratcher. Hey I'm not the GM nor can I say BChick doesn't know what he's doing but it still makes you wonder. My point is, don't you think this guy would have been available in the 4th round or even the 5th (possibly)?


Two things:

1--How many 3rd rounders and on do you really expect to stick on a team that goes 16-0? The Pats had an insane amount of talent. It's hard to break into that.

2--No one is really saying this QB is a huge reach as far as draft slot, it's only confusing because of the Pats taking him. It's doubtful he'd have been there in the 5th round.
 

Ed Hillel

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Mayock gives us the best theory yet: They can't hold on to Cassel all the way until Brady is done and has his contract up after this year, and they need an heir or at least a good #2. Cassel gets moved after this year and O'Connell becomes that guy, and not a bad year to do this because they've already addressed their biggest needs.
Maybe, but Brady probably has at least 5 years left of playing at a high level (knock on wood), so it's a bit of a reach to think O'Connell will stick around that long. Given the other immediate needs we have, I probably would have gone corner again.
 

finnVT

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Yeah...the only diffence is Steve Young was a stud in college...stud.

Anyone know what San Diego gave up other than a 5th and their 3rd for the Pats 3rd? Probably nothing else I guess.

I'm dissapointed...even more so that the Gints got Manningham right after.
It wasn't their 3rd, it was next year's 2nd. So a 2008 5th, and a 2009 2nd.



The QB pick is interesting. One of the NFLN guys made the point that Cassel's only got a year left on his contract. This way if he walks to find a place to start (or if they're able to trade him for a mid-round pick), you've got another qb ready to step in and be a backup, perhaps already with a year in the system.

edit: way too slow.
 

SoxScout

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Mort: "Chance to be a star"

Some people: "First round grade"
 

Sille Skrub

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I think we're all missing the obvious answer:

Next season the Pats will unveil a new, revolutionary two QB set.

Obviously, they didn't think Cassel or Guiterrez could play QB2.
 

SaysBill

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Jul 30, 2005
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Is this kid really going to be that much of an upgrade over Gutierrez? I mean, if Brady goes down we're fucked anyways, so why burn a third round pick on someone who is irrelevant? What a waste that was. If you're going to waste a pick, why not see if Manningham can not be a douche bag?

I think Gutierrez is the #2. There were times last year when they pulled Brady and put him in over Cassel. I think that they are going to look to trade Cassel or maybe even Gutierrez during the preseason. Jaws is saying that O'Connell is going to be a star with good coaching.
 

Tony C

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well, the ESPN guys are creaming their jeans over him....sort of unanimously. some had him as a 1st rounder?
 

Guinevere

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Mayock gives us the best theory yet: They can't hold on to Cassel all the way until Brady is done and has his contract up after this year, and they need an heir or at least a good #2. Cassel gets moved after this year and O'Connell becomes that guy, and not a bad year to do this because they've already addressed their biggest needs.

Reiss says the same thing (and KOC was on the Reiss list):

In selecting San Diego State QB Kevin O'Connell with the 94th overall selection, the Patriots used a high chip in the draft to add a highly touted prospect behind Tom Brady on the depth chart.

Offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels had traveled to San Diego to privately work out O'Connell, so the Patriots had him in their crosshairs in the pre-draft process.

No. 2 quarterback Matt Cassel becomes an unrestricted free agent after the 2008 season, and he's never been tested with having to assume the top post. This also opens the possibility that if Cassel shines in the preseason -- and generates trade interest -- the Patriots have more layers on the depth chart.

While No. 3 quarterback Matt Gutierrez showed promise last year after making the club as a 2007 rookie free agent, he remains a work in progress.

So O'Connell, who has prototypical size at 6-foot-5, 225 pounds, adds another piece to the QB puzzle, and in a manner that gives him time to develop with limited pressure/expectations.

The Patriots have been fortunate that Tom Brady has been an ironman. This move adds to the team's options if Brady's run comes to an end.
 

BTwnDreamin

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BTwnDreamin, none of those guys stuck with the Pats because there weren't many spots available for rookies because they were very deep last year. ALL of the Pats selections from last year are still playing in the NFL. In fact, a couple of the OL started games last season. I think it was a solid draft but there just wasn't room for them because they weren't going to make the team over the vets that we had.
You're right, and that's why I'm confused by some of their picks. I'm not just refering to last year. They picked a RB (Mills) out of UConn which I thought was a wierd pick. Trading up for Chad Jackson (an overrated player at the tie and and a slight reach in that spot IMO) was also questionable (now moreso since he's been injured ever since he stepped on the field it seems).

Mind you, they have made a lot of trades out of the 3rd and 4th rounds, so you are right it seems they are simply drafting for need and then seeing if any of those less risky, less expensive picks stick. I guess sometimes in these 2nd and 3rd rounds I wish they would grab a guy that is highly rated who has dropped a bit and that's more my heart talking (Manningham, King et al).

I still trust they know crap load more than I do sitting here on my couch.
 

mascho

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In the end, I really think the issue isn't whether KOC is an upgrade over Guiterrez, it's whether he's a upgrade over Cassel. I think we'll see, eventually, that he is.

This guy was a four year team captain at SDSU. He has much more live fire experience than Cassel had coming into the NFL. I really think the Pats just drafted Brady's caddy for the next 5 years....
 

NickEsasky

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Mayock had 90 of his top 100 drafted in the first 100 picks. That is insane.

He has pieces of Kiper in his stool
 

BTwnDreamin

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I will admit, I did want them to grab someone solid to stick behind Brady and maybe this is their guy...well...I hope he is. If he isn't I hope Cassel is ready to prove as much.

Not that Bady is done (god forbid), but you never know in this league and nothing is forever.
 

Catcher Block

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Not that lightning would strike Foxborough twice....but Brady was a backup taken in the 6th round.

edit: Not that anyone needed a reminder...Just sayin'. ;)
 

Ed Hillel

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After thinking about the pick more, I can understand KOC, especially the praise he's being given. I guess just the thought of the Pats without Brady is scary to me.
 

SoxScout

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Damn, Browns take Bell

Romeo like him, he could have played here.
 

SaysBill

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Belichick must really be turned off by the backups, in general, to take a QB in the 3rd round. Can't say I understand that one.
Maybe he was the best player on their board and were shocked he was still there. Some GMs/coaches saw him as a late first/second rounder and most had him in the T-5 QBs in the draft, according to Mort and Jaws. Why not take him and develop him? I like Gutierrez a lot and actually have some faith in him if Brady was to go down. I cannot say the same for Cassel. The word is that KOC could be a stud with some coaching on his mechanics and with some talent around him (his OL in college sucked). I like the pick.
 

dividius

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Maybe, but Brady probably has at least 5 years left of playing at a high level (knock on wood), so it's a bit of a reach to think O'Connell will stick around that long. Given the other immediate needs we have, I probably would have gone corner again.
I think that's a bit optimistic. As much as we would all love to believe Brady can keep playing at a high level into his mid-late 30's, it's certainly not a given. QB's generally begin to decline after age 32. Brady turns 31 in August. Granted, Brady isn't your average QB by any stretch, but I wouldn't assume he'll continue playing at a high level 3-5 years from now. That doesn't mean he can't, and I wouldn't bet against him, but it isn't a given.

From what I'm hearing and reading, the sky is the limit for O'Connell. Why not roll the dice on a potential heir apparent? Even if he only becomes a capable backup, that's still a worthwhile value in the 3rd round. People here might be forgetting how valuable a backup QB is because we've all been spoiled by Brady's remarkable durability. We should all remember how Brady got his job in the first place. Frankly, I don't get all the hate for O'Connell. Surprising, yes, but not a bad pick at all.
 

SaysBill

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You're right, and that's why I'm confused by some of their picks. I'm not just refering to last year. They picked a RB (Mills) out of UConn which I thought was a wierd pick. Trading up for Chad Jackson (an overrated player at the tie and and a slight reach in that spot IMO) was also questionable (now moreso since he's been injured ever since he stepped on the field it seems).

Mind you, they have made a lot of trades out of the 3rd and 4th rounds, so you are right it seems they are simply drafting for need and then seeing if any of those less risky, less expensive picks stick. I guess sometimes in these 2nd and 3rd rounds I wish they would grab a guy that is highly rated who has dropped a bit and that's more my heart talking (Manningham, King et al).

I still trust they know crap load more than I do sitting here on my couch.

I hear what you're saying. I agree with you in some regards. None of these guys are "sexy" picks. I often look at the ESPN Big Board to see who's left and you see "name"-players. The Pats just don't draft that way. It obviously works, but sucks because it's not entertaining and sometimes we don't know who the player is that they selected and what to expect. They always go BPA for their system and Grammar is a concept I fail at about ESPN and Mel Kiper.

Mills out of Tulane was a good pick. He was a TE/FB that could run, was a good receiver and blocker. unfortunately, he got injured and never saw the field. All I can say about Jackson is that they worked him out hard and tested him on the offense (went back to him at FLA later and ran him through it and he remembered it). He just needs to stay healthy.
 

Steve Dillard

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I think Gutierrez is the #2. There were times last year when they pulled Brady and put him in over Cassel. I think that they are going to look to trade Cassel or maybe even Gutierrez during the preseason. Jaws is saying that O'Connell is going to be a star with good coaching.
This pick isn't about the backup QB spot. For that they can get a 40 year old filler. This is about 2011 forward. If you don't have a "good" QB, you're f'd. So, they can wait till 2011 and hope to draft a replacement at that point, or start playing the lottery now, hoping that a ticket gets lucky. Better to play that lottery from 2005-2011, and quickly throw the losing tickets out and pick again once it becomes clear the kid is nothing special.
 

Mr. Baseball

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Players available the Pats have visited with/worked out. Mayo and Wheatley were both in the group, so it's no smokescreen.


CB Zack Bowman (Nebraska)
WR Keenan Burton (Kentucky)
OL John Greco (Toledo)
CB Charles Godfrey (Iowa)
OL Jamey Richard (Buffalo)
DE Darrell Robertson (Georgia Tech)
CB Orlando Scandrick (Boise St.)
TE Matt Sherry (Villanova)
LB Hilee Taylor (North Carolina)

Other players of interest:

Beau Bell, LB UNLV
Ezra Butler, LB Nevada
Philip Wheeler, LB Georgia Tech
Justin King, CB Penn State
Tyvon Branch, CB Connecticut
Brad Cottam, TE Tennessee
Kendell Langford, DT Hampton
Earl Bennett, WR Vanderbilt
Chevis Jackson, CB LSU
Jonathan Goff, ILB Vanderbilt
Reggie Smith, S Oklahoma
Dan Connor, LB Penn State
DaJuan Morgan, S NC State
Shawn Crable, OLB Michigan
Tom Zbikowski, S Notre Dame
Mario Manningham, WR Michigan
Oneil Cousins, OT UTEP
King Dunlap, OT Auburn
Steve Slayton, RB West Virginia
Mario Urrutia, WR Louisville
Josh Johnson, QB San Diego
for the sake of reference, as of about 12:17

edit: clarity
 

SoxScout

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Wow, Balt 4th rounder for Fabian Washington

Some Raiders sites expected a 2nd rounder for him
 

ragnarok725

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Baltimore gives up a 4th for Fabian Washington.

I like the O'Connell pick, but if we could have moved that pick for Washington, I would have loved that... I'm a fan of day 2 draft deals with the Raiders.
 

SoxScout

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I think he fits nicely as a future 3rd down back. Great receiver, unlike most of the backs left, and he can hold his own blocking. His 40 and bench press were pretty damn good too, at least better than expected.
 

Hambone

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Hoping Josh Barrett (SS-ASU) is still around for us at 129. He is a freak.

I'm not sold on Barrett. He was benched for inconsistent play a few times his senior year after starting every game as a junior and that was on an inexperienced secondary that was starting a true freshman at corner. He's an absolute burner and can recover quickly on routes, has absolutely amazing talent, but has never proven to be able to maintain consistent high-level play. The right system where he can learn from an intense pro could change that though.

I wish him the best as he's an absolutely great kid that I've had the pleasure of meeting a few times, but having watched him play the last 4 years (I'm an ASU season ticket holder) I felt he was rated too high on draft boards.
 

DegenerateSoxFan

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I wish him the best as he's an absolutely great kid that I've had the pleasure of meeting a few times, but having watched him play the last 4 years (I'm an ASU season ticket holder) I felt he was rated too high on draft boards.
Maybe, nay, probably, Belichick would do better with him than Dennis Erickson.

Not that Erickson's bad. I'm an ASU grad myself and cautiously optimistic that he may be able to recruit well enough to bring the program back to an elite level.
 

SpacemanzGerbil

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I'm not sold on Barrett.
I agree with you entirely. He should've done more and been better at ASU. He's got All-American physical gifts but his head just isn't there. I wouldn't mind the Patriots taking him on a lark but he's got a pretty high chance of being cut in training camp.
 

Chemistry Schmemistry

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Yeah, Crable was a wasted pick. He'll never see the field except on special teams, if he makes the team.

He's very good at slanting his way into the backfield and chasing people. I don't think he has much football intelligence. He's not a bad kid at all, personally, from the stories I've read.

He has decent speed (4.63) for his size, and he has the tools that will get people excited, though. So it could be a boom or bust pick.

He also will live in Ann Arbor infamy for being the guy who forgot his assignment as Corey Lynch blocked the field goal at the end of the Appalachian State game.

I don't hate him, I just think he needs to find another profession.