'19-'20 Warriors: who's left?

Ale Xander

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1) SOmeone (SRN? Dejesus?) needs to start a '19/'20 thread.
2) To recap, in June,
a) Klay and Durant injured/re-injured, causing them to get upset in NBA Finals
b) lose Klay for most of '19-20
c) lose Durant for good
d) lose Iggy
e) lose future 1st round pick
f) lose Looney (I think)
g) probably lose Cousins (could have been addition by subtraction if not c, f, etc.)

correct?
 

coremiller

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Supposedly the Iggy trade is so that they can sign and trade for D'Angelo Russell, which just ... makes no sense to me at all, unless they plan to flip Russell somewhere else down the line.
 

Ale Xander

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Cellar Door makes a great point that the rational thing to do would be trade Russell next offseason. The risk though is he reverts into the guy the Lakers got rid of. They're buying high on him . We'll see if it works.
 

ifmanis5

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With Klay out they do need more scoring and Russell can take over ball handling to give Curry some usage relief. It's just tough to fill out the rest of the roster with the salary slots they have left. Looney will be overpaid elsewhere, that was a given.
 

coremiller

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Cellar Door makes a great point that the rational thing to do would be trade Russell next offseason. The risk though is he reverts into the guy the Lakers got rid of. They're buying high on him . We'll see if it works.
As long as he's not a total headcase who's ok fitting into the hierarchy, playing alongside Steph and Dray (and Klay, whenever he returns) will make him look better than he really is, at least on offense. He'll get plenty of space and favorable matchups that he won't get anywhere else. With KD gone and Klay out the Warriors needed additional scoring/playmaking and Russell can give them that.
 

The Social Chair

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The Warriors are opening a very expensive arena and their fan base of tech millionaires aren't going to show up to see a 7th seed. I feel like they had no choice but to try to make some kind of move.
 

coremiller

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The Warriors are opening a very expensive arena and their fan base of tech millionaires aren't going to show up to see a 7th seed. I feel like they had no choice but to try to make some kind of move.
Most of the Chase Center tickets have already been sold. I don't think Warriors management is that short-term oriented that they'd do some kind of panic move in order to sell tickets. Presumably they had a Plan B if KD left and this is it.
 

Sprowl

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1) SOmeone (SRN? Dejesus?) needs to start a '19/'20 thread.
It's a whole new season, with a whole new thread.

Presumably the Warriors have given up Looney, a Big the Celtics will probably be looking at.
 
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maufman

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D’Angelo Russell is 8 months older than Jaylen Brown and the league’s savviest organization just placed a big bet on him. I think SoSH is seriously underrating Russell’s upside.
 

lovegtm

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D’Angelo Russell is 8 months older than Jaylen Brown and the league’s savviest organization just placed a big bet on him. I think SoSH is seriously underrating Russell’s upside.
The Warriors are very well-run, but “league’s savviest organization” is a bit much. Steph and Klay predate Myers even as assistant GM. He drafted Draymond (huge) and got KD to sign due to an unprecedented cap spike. Other than Draymond and Looney, they haven’t had great success betting on anyone young.

They’re solid, but this isn’t the Spurs.
 

jmm57

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They also drafted Jordan Bell who must be a stud by now given the nightly updates on his progress
 

bowiac

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D’Angelo Russell is 8 months older than Jaylen Brown and the league’s savviest organization just placed a big bet on him. I think SoSH is seriously underrating Russell’s upside.
Apart from the Warriors bragging about being geniuses, why do we think they're the savviest organization again? I may have my timing mixed up here, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like all the key acquisitions apart from signing Kevin Durant took place under Jerry West (who is since gone). And obviously the Durant situation was the sui generis situation, which doesn't really tell me about the management.

The Warriors built perhaps the strongest core ever with Curry, Klay, Draymond, and Iggy, but again, most of that was all done a long time ago, with Jerry West in the organization. Since then, they've mostly built teams where seemingly the entire bench was composed of backup centers. That never mattered since the core was so strong, but I'm actually not sure what they've done to make us confident that they're a top tier organization. Based on yesterday's moves (both the price paid to get rid of Iggy, and the DAR signing itself), I'm increasingly suspect.

This isn't a deeply thought out take yet, but are we sure they're good?
 

lovegtm

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Apart from the Warriors bragging about being geniuses, why do we think they're the savviest organization again? I may have my timing mixed up here, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like all the key acquisitions apart from signing Kevin Durant took place under Jerry West (who is since gone). And obviously the Durant situation was the sui generis situation, which doesn't really tell me about the management.

The Warriors built perhaps the strongest core ever with Curry, Klay, Draymond, and Iggy, but again, most of that was all done a long time ago, with Jerry West in the organization. Since then, they've mostly built teams where seemingly the entire bench was composed of backup centers. That never mattered since the core was so strong, but I'm actually not sure what they've done to make us confident that they're a top tier organization. Based on yesterday's moves (both the price paid to get rid of Iggy, and the DAR signing itself), I'm increasingly suspect.

This isn't a deeply thought out take yet, but are we sure they're good?
Giving away lightly protected 1st rounders years out to dump a contract is always a very strong negative indicator, especially when done for the right to pay DeAngelo Russell.
 

ehaz

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Giving away lightly protected 1st rounders years out to dump a contract is always a very strong negative indicator, especially when done for the right to pay DeAngelo Russell.
But if DLo ends up with huge numbers being showcased in an offense with Curry, it won’t be hard to get back a similar pick or multiple interesting role players in a 2020 offseason deal when Thompson is back and fully healthy.

I do wonder though if it would have been more wise to just keep the $30M trade exception and work out a Brogdon deal (would that have been possible?). He seems like a better fit as a 2019/20 Klay replacement and could even fit well on a team with Klay and Steph if he comes back and they make the playoffs this year. They probably don’t have to trade Andre either.
 

bowiac

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Giving away lightly protected 1st rounders years out to dump a contract is always a very strong negative indicator, especially when done for the right to pay DeAngelo Russell.
Agree. And that's not a bad contract even? Iggy had a good year. He's overpaid at $17M given his limited playing time, but he's remained productive while on the court. Pretty hefty price there.
 

Devizier

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Dumping Iggy was a real head scratcher. I hope someone else plies him from Memphis before they go the buyout route.
 

coremiller

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They had to dump Iggy once they agreed to the Russell deal because after a sign-and-trade they're hard-capped at the apron and so they had to dump the salary to get under. That's the main reason the Russell deal doesn't make sense -- they had to give up assets (Iggy + picks) to do it, and they left themselves with zero flexibility because of the hard cap. They can't really even use the taxpayer MLE because just minimum salaries for all the remaining empty roster spots eats up just about all their remaining space under the apron.
 

cheech13

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Kind of surprised that they straight salary dumped Iggy. Going back as far as last season I was of the opinion that they'd trade Draymond if Durant walked. That would allow them to get pieces to build the next team around Klay/Steph. So they kind of shortcut that by turning Durant into D'lo. They probably just bring Draymond back next summer and cash out Russell for whatever assets they can get. There's no way they go long-term with Steph/Klay/D'Lo. That's a very awkward fit.
 

nattysez

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They had to dump Iggy once they agreed to the Russell deal because after a sign-and-trade they're hard-capped at the apron and so they had to dump the salary to get under. That's the main reason the Russell deal doesn't make sense -- they had to give up assets (Iggy + picks) to do it, and they left themselves with zero flexibility because of the hard cap. They can't really even use the taxpayer MLE because just minimum salaries for all the remaining empty roster spots eats up just about all their remaining space under the apron.
I think the issues are that:
(1) they didn't want to get nothing for KD
(2) they gave up a single first-rounder and are arrogant enough to assume that it'll never be that great and that they can just buy one to replace it
(3) they view D'lo as a really good asset who'll fetch something better than an expiring Iggy+late first-rounder if he prospers next year
(4) they needed someone to fill Klay's shoes for the first half+ next year
 

Sam Ray Not

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Giving away lightly protected 1st rounders years out to dump a contract is always a very strong negative indicator
In fairness, that's exactly how they got Iguodala in the first place (which of course instantly transformed the defense and sowed the seeds of the 2015 championship team). Foisted the theretofore totally unmovable contracts of Biedrins, Rush and Jefferson on Utah for not one but three first rounders, and used the space to sign Andre. One can quibble with the basketball specifics of this deal (and I'll probably do that in another post) but in terms of degree of difficulty and the foresight/balls/timing it took to pull it off, this has to be Bob Myers' most creative move since the Iguodala trade.

I'm sort of an emotional wreck right now, but in broad terms: if they can somehow keep Looney around, I think I really like this deal for them. If they lose Looney, I swing more towards not liking it.
 

cheech13

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In fairness, that's exactly how they got Iguodala in the first place (which of course instantly transformed the defense and sowed the seeds of the 2015 championship team). Foisted the theretofore totally unmovable contracts of Biedrins, Rush and Jefferson on Utah for not one but three first rounders, and used the space to sign Andre. One can quibble with the basketball specifics of this deal (and I'll probably do that in another post) but in terms of degree of difficulty and the foresight/balls/timing it took to pull it off, this has to be Bob Myers' most creative move since the Iguodala trade.

I'm sort of an emotional wreck right now, but in broad terms: if they can somehow keep Looney around, I think I really like this deal for them. If they lose Looney, I swing more towards not liking it.
Is there any way they can actually keep Looney? I thought they have less than $5MM to spend before hitting the hard cap. There's no way that's enough, right?
 

bowiac

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From listening to Nate Duncan this morning, yes, Looney is gone. That's one of the issues with this move - it hard caps them for dubious benefit.
 

cheech13

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From listening to Nate Duncan this morning, yes, Looney is gone. That's one of the issues with this move - it hard caps them for dubious benefit.
In other words they dealt Iggy, Looney, Cousins and two firsts for D'Angelo Russell, right? That's a pretty brutal trade on its face.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Is there any way they can actually keep Looney? I thought they have less than $5MM to spend before hitting the hard cap. There's no way that's enough, right?
I haven't done the nitty gritty math, but from what I've read (1) they're still motivated to sign Looney; and (2) there are still a couple fat-trimming moves that could add a half-mil here and there to get them closer to 6 or 7 million (e.g. moving Livingston's guaranteed $2M into someone's cap space). But yeah, I'm basically with Nate Duncan that if the deal hard-caps them out of Looney it's a lot less appealing. (The loss of Andre, while sentimentally crushing, is not too hard to swallow given that he turns 36 next season and has spoken openly about retirement for a while).
 

coremiller

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So they basically traded Andre, two 1sts, and the right to go over the apron for the right to give Russell a max contract. That seems like a bad deal, unless they think a) they weren't winning the title this year no matter what they did, so being hard capped doesn't matter as much, and b) they can flip Russell 6-12 months from now for something more valuable than what they just paid.
 

edoug

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So they basically traded Andre, two 1sts, and the right to go over the apron for the right to give Russell a max contract. That seems like a bad deal, unless they think a) they weren't winning the title this year no matter what they did, so being hard capped doesn't matter as much, and b) they can flip Russell 6-12 months from now for something more valuable than what they just paid.
Or sooner,
 

lovegtm

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In fairness, that's exactly how they got Iguodala in the first place (which of course instantly transformed the defense and sowed the seeds of the 2015 championship team). Foisted the theretofore totally unmovable contracts of Biedrins, Rush and Jefferson on Utah for not one but three first rounders, and used the space to sign Andre. One can quibble with the basketball specifics of this deal (and I'll probably do that in another post) but in terms of degree of difficulty and the foresight/balls/timing it took to pull it off, this has to be Bob Myers' most creative move since the Iguodala trade.

I'm sort of an emotional wreck right now, but in broad terms: if they can somehow keep Looney around, I think I really like this deal for them. If they lose Looney, I swing more towards not liking it.
Yeah, I thought of that move specifically when I wrote my comment, and it’s why I wrote the “years out” qualifier. The difference there was that the pick was (iirc) for the upcoming year, so it was a lot easier to project the Dubs as a playoff team. It was a lot closer to the unprotected Dallas gave the Knicks.

When you go years out, you really hurt your team’s ability to plan, trade, and tank as necessary. It’s justifiable when the target is AD, not when it’s DeAngelo Russell (imo).
 

nattysez

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So they basically traded Andre, two 1sts, and the right to go over the apron for the right to give Russell a max contract. That seems like a bad deal, unless they think a) they weren't winning the title this year no matter what they did, so being hard capped doesn't matter as much, and b) they can flip Russell 6-12 months from now for something more valuable than what they just paid.
(a) might be "they weren't winning the title this year without a high-quality replacement for Klay, so landing such a guy and then trying to find a way to cram Looney under the hard cap was necessary"
 

Sam Ray Not

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When you go years out, you really hurt your team’s ability to plan, trade, and tank as necessary.
The picks surrendered in the Andre trade (in Summer of 2013) also went years out: two unprotected first rounders (2014 and 2017), two second-rounders (2016 and 2017), and a second-round pick from the Nuggets (2018), plus cash considerations.
 

coremiller

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The picks surrendered in the Andre trade (in Summer of 2013) also went years out: two unprotected first rounders (2014 and 2017), two second-rounders (2016 and 2017), and a second-round pick from the Nuggets (2018), plus cash considerations.
The pick they gave to Memphis can be rolled all the way to 2026, when it's unprotected. That's seven years out rather than four. And in 2013, the Warriors were a playoff team with young stars at the beginning of their primes, so the picks were very likely to be poor. In 2026, Steph will be 38 and Klay will be 37; nobody knows if they will even be on the team anymore, and they're very unlikely to still be all-star caliber guys. It's quite possible the Warriors are not good in 2026.
 

edoug

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You can't trade players acquired in a sign-and-trade before December 15. So they won't be flipping Russell right away.
Thanks but m point, heavily influenced by the story :), is he's just biding his time and is gone as soon as the Warriors can the best deal. Plus the way the NBA operates they may have already traded him but can't officially announce it until December.
 

lovegtm

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The picks surrendered in the Andre trade (in Summer of 2013) also went years out: two unprotected first rounders (2014 and 2017), two second-rounders (2016 and 2017), and a second-round pick from the Nuggets (2018), plus cash considerations.
I'll grant you the 2017 pick--the Warriors won that one. The 2nd rounders don't count because they can't win the lottery. (I also specifically said 1st rounders in my post).
 

cheech13

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Warriors are moving the other guys from the Russell trade (Treveon Graham and Shabazz Napier) to the Wolves. Very confused by this unless there is another shoe to drop. Those are actually useful players that they are going to have to replace with minimum salary guys. No real feel for what they are trying to accomplish at all.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Warriors are moving the other guys from the Russell trade (Treveon Graham and Shabazz Napier) to the Wolves. Very confused by this unless there is another shoe to drop. Those are actually useful players that they are going to have to replace with minimum salary guys. No real feel for what they are trying to accomplish at all.
Trying to clear sufficient space under their hard cap to re-sign Looney, I would assume.
 

nattysez

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Yeesh -- from Warriors beat writer:

Every penny matters, but make no mistake, the Dubs are more or less winging it at this moment, trying to maximize the no-win scenario of Durant's exit.
Very unlike the Warriors to be caught so flat-footed.

Edit: Jordan Bell just signed with Minny.
 
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Sam Ray Not

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trying to maximize the no-win scenario of Durant's exit.
I mean ... obviously?

Fwiw, Dieter Kurtenbach is viewed by most Warrior fans as an idiot and a drama king. Sort of the anti- Anthony Slater in the world of Warrior beat writers.

I'll be pretty pissed if Looney moves on; but for all we know they promised Looney a precise number in their meeting with him yesterday, and are quietly and methodically shedding every roster spot over the $1.6M minimum to hit that target.

By way of news: Jordan Bell is moving on to the Wolves. Godspeed, JB!
 

Sam Ray Not

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Alternatively, all these deals with the Wolves are tacitly paving the way for a future DLo-to-Minny deal.
 

DannyDarwinism

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I mean ... obviously?

Fwiw, Dieter Kurtenbach is viewed by most Warrior fans as an idiot and a drama king. Sort of the anti- Anthony Slater in the world of Warrior beat writers.
Huh. He’s often on Sam Vecenie’s Game Theory podcast and comes across as a decent and funny guy who’s fairly knowledgeable and reasonably plugged in. Now I like him even more.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Another piece of the equation, per Slater:


"Under the radar long-term tentacle of the Andre Iguodala trade: Warriors will get a $17.2 million trade exception. Won't be of use this season, since they're hard-capped. But it has 365-day expiration from day of trade. Could be used to absorb a piece at the start on next July."

So potentially for 2020/21: Big Three (including presumably a fully healthy Klay); a max slot / highly tradeable asset in 24 y.o. Russell (or just Russell himself, if they like the synergy with Steph and Klay), and another $17.2M to play with.
 

coremiller

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At the very least, they should be able to use the trade exception next summer to take on someone’s bad salary and get one of those first round picks back, if they can’t find anything better with to use it for.
 

Joe D Reid

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Bay resident but non-Dubs fan here. Popping my head in to see what folks thought about GS's announcement that they are soft-retiring KD's number. Celtics fans can't really throw stones in the glass house of questionable number retirements, but it struck me a as a little odd.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Haha. Why do you gotta hate on Anthony Slater???
Heh. I will say that Kurtenbach definitely relishes in the intrapersonal drama of the NBA, but I am 100% with him there. When the product is a good as it has been (credit to your boys there), and the personalities are as big as they are, then you throw in the amplifier that is social media, where a rogue Instagram like can spawn 10,000 tweets and a dozen think pieces, that’s how you get to a day that felt as culturally momentous as the one we had yesterday without a game having been played.

I’m skeptical of the Warriors ability to get back to championship contention level, but I hope I’m wrong, particularly if Kawhi goes to the Lakers. And I really hope Klay comes back 100%. He’d one of the aforementioned personalities that make this league so much fun to follow. I’m sure you saw this, but this story had me rolling:


My dude is a character.
 

Tangled Up In Red

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"Today, as he starts a new chapter in his incredible career, we thank KD for all of his contributions, for being an integral part to one of the most prolific runs in NBA history and wish him well as he continues his Hall of Fame journey," Lacob said in the statement. "As long as I am Co-Chairman of this team, no player will ever wear #35 for the Warriors again."

I take that as an temporary number retirement (if such a thing exists). Once KD retires or Joe Lacob steps down, it will be used again. A nice show/token or respect and thanks, but silly to do actually hang it in the rafters for all time. My 2 cents.