'18-'19 Warriors: Trouble In Paradise?

DrewDawg

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Some guys say stuff like that, and then they leave anyway. None of it means anything.
Well, it clearly meant enough for Draymond to react, no?

I'm not saying it's actually meaningful, I'm saying the perception clearly has repercussions.
 

bosox79

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Because he is a cry baby. How many other NBA players are whining about someone else's contract status?
 

cheech13

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Because he is a cry baby. How many other NBA players are whining about someone else's contract status?
But isn't Green's criticism that Durant is holding his free agency over the team and using that leverage to make himself the focal point of everything? And that he's doing so at the potential detriment of the team? I'm not saying he's right, but the issue certainly seems to run much deeper than Durant's contract or free agent decisions next summer.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Because he is a cry baby. How many other NBA players are whining about someone else's contract status?
I think its safe to say that there are much bigger issues at work beyond Durant's contract status. Tensions have been brewing in that locker room since last year. After they won, David West made reference to some sort of big issue around that squad but nothing else came up that I saw after. My WAG is that it had something to do with Durant/Green.
 

bosox79

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I think its safe to say that there are much bigger issues at work beyond Durant's contract status. Tensions have been brewing in that locker room since last year. After they won, David West made reference to some sort of big issue around that squad but nothing else came up that I saw after. My WAG is that it had something to do with Durant/Green.
Probably, otherwise it's a really bad look for Draymond. Every year there are tons of players on the last year of their deal who haven't made a commitment and it's never been an issue until now. But like you said, it's probably not the actual issue.
 

bosox79

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In a hypothetical scenario where KD is going to leave at the end of the year, what does he have to gain by saying that?
 

DrewDawg

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In a hypothetical scenario where KD is going to leave at the end of the year, what does he have to gain by saying that?
I think there are ways to tamp that down--"I'm concentrating on winning another title for the Warriors" but (and we can keep saying it should not matter, but it clearly does) he's not doing it.
 

BigSoxFan

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I think Durant is gone this summer. He knows it. The team knows it. And it's clearly causing some friction and getting a little awkward. Green is the Warrior lifer. Durant is the mercenary. I would be willing to bet that this dynamic is playing a role. Green is probably telling Durant that he needed them more than they needed him and Durant is probably sitting there like, umm, I'm the best player on this team.

The Warriors clearly aren't going to trade Durant but it's certainly fun to speculate. Durant going to LA to team up with LeBron would be a WWE move that Adam Silver would be salivating over.
 

cheech13

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I think Durant is gone this summer. He knows it. The team knows it. And it's clearly causing some friction and getting a little awkward. Green is the Warrior lifer. Durant is the mercenary. I would be willing to bet that this dynamic is playing a role. Green is probably telling Durant that he needed them more than they needed him and Durant is probably sitting there like, umm, I'm the best player on this team.

The Warriors clearly aren't going to trade Durant but it's certainly fun to speculate. Durant going to LA to team up with LeBron would be a WWE move that Adam Silver would be salivating over.
Isn't the narrative from the media that Durant feels like he doesn't get enough credit for the Warriors success and that it'll never be seen as "his" team despite the Finals MVPs? If that's the case I can't see him signing up to be Lebron's sidekick in LA. Now the Clippers? That's kind of interesting.
 

BigSoxFan

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Isn't the narrative from the media that Durant feels like he doesn't get enough credit for the Warriors success and that it'll never be seen as "his" team despite the Finals MVPs? If that's the case I can't see him signing up to be Lebron's sidekick in LA. Now the Clippers? That's kind of interesting.
Personally, I think he's going to the Knicks. Not many people are on board with me but the Knicks have Porzingis ready to be the Robin to his Batman (which is probably the role the unicorn is best-suited for). They have young talent and valuable 2019 pick to get a 3rd star. They have a well-respected head coach. Dolan is still a clown and the media's expectations may swallow Durant whole but I think it's a real viable solution. Clippers make less sense since I don't know how they would be able to put enough talent around Durant.
 

nighthob

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The reality is that a team like GS that is in luxury tax hell isn’t going to want Hayward’s deal. He’s probably pretty untradeable right now.
It's not like Hayward blew out his knee, he broke his ankle. It will take some time for him to get his athleticism back, but it's going to get there. In short if Boston were inclined to trade him, they'd have suitors.

Isn't the narrative from the media that Durant feels like he doesn't get enough credit for the Warriors success and that it'll never be seen as "his" team despite the Finals MVPs? If that's the case I can't see him signing up to be Lebron's sidekick in LA. Now the Clippers? That's kind of interesting.
The difference being that the Warriors were already a title winner when Durant showed up. There's a real chance that LeBron's Lakers don't make it past the first round.
 

cheech13

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Personally, I think he's going to the Knicks. Not many people are on board with me but the Knicks have Porzingis ready to be the Robin to his Batman (which is probably the role the unicorn is best-suited for). They have young talent and valuable 2019 pick to get a 3rd star. They have a well-respected head coach. Dolan is still a clown and the media's expectations may swallow Durant whole but I think it's a real viable solution. Clippers make less sense since I don't know how they would be able to put enough talent around Durant.
IF Porzingis is healthy, and IF they get a top 3 pick, and IF they clear space for a second star, and IF Durant's agent gets the GM spot he's been lobbying for then yes, I could see Durant making the jump. That's a whole lot of ifs though. It's hard to imagine a player like Durant giving up his prime years to Dolan even with the allure of making the Knicks relevant.
 

bosox79

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I've said it before, but why not Durant to Dallas?

They'll have tons of room next year and the year after with a few nice pieces already in place and it's less fan/media pressure.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Do the Clippers have the space to sign both Durant and Kwahi, or do they need to dump Gallinari’s salary first?
 

bosox79

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I think only the Nets would have room to sign both. There are lots of teams that are close though, but young. Kings, Mavs, NY, Pacers. Clips.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Because he is a cry baby. How many other NBA players are whining about someone else's contract status?
Antonio Daniels on SiriusNBA the other day saying that contract talk is commonplace in NBA locker rooms. He spoke specifically of Shawn Marion who exhausted the entire locker room for 3 years until he was traded bitching about his contract (when he was the highest paid player on the team). Also had high praise for Nate McMillian the year he won coach of the year for addressing the issue from Day One on a team that had like 9 expiring contracts and not once were contracts discussed in the locker room.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think only the Nets would have room to sign both. There are lots of teams that are close though, but young. Kings, Mavs, NY, Pacers. Clips.
They are all close enough to be able to clear the space if they felt they had a chance. Realisitically only the Knicks and Clippers would make that bold of a move but it would be easily doable for them.
 

BigSoxFan

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Antonio Daniels on SiriusNBA the other day saying that contract talk is commonplace in NBA locker rooms. He spoke specifically of Shawn Marion who exhausted the entire locker room for 3 years until he was traded bitching about his contract (when he was the highest paid player on the team). Also had high praise for Nate McMillian the year he won coach of the year for addressing the issue from Day One on a team that had like 9 expiring contracts and not once were contracts discussed in the locker room.
Complaining about your own contract sure is commonplace but is complaining about someone else's contract or contract status really that common? I remember John Wall making some snide remark when Reggie Jackson got his extension. But they were on different teams. Are there recent comparable situations as this Draymond/Durant stuff?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Complaining about your own contract sure is commonplace but is complaining about someone else's contract or contract status really that common? I remember John Wall making some snide remark when Reggie Jackson got his extension. But they were on different teams. Are there recent comparable situations as this Draymond/Durant stuff?
Daniels didn't dive into comparable but he did say that contract talk is part of every locker room.
 

Cellar-Door

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So he's mad at Durant for doing the same thing basically every FA to be does?
He's pissed that he took a paycut to help get Durant there and now Durant is going to leave and the Warriors aren't going to max Green.

Do the Clippers have the space to sign both Durant and Kwahi, or do they need to dump Gallinari’s salary first?
Not quite even if they renounced everyone. They could however do a sign and trade with Tobias Harris, Gallinari or Bradley involved
 

cheech13

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Draymond Green signed his contract in 2015. Well before anyone thought Kevin Durant would be going to Golden State
Not only that, Durant took significant discounts the last two summers so that they could bring back guys like Livingston and Igoudala. Had he just maxed out it's questionable whether or not they'd have been able to keep that team together.
 

the moops

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I’d trade Green before ever trading Durant, especially if Greens departure makes Durant more likely to stay. They can win without Draymond.
Their team is good enough that they could win without either one of them. And that is not even considering who they get as a return in this hypothetical trade
 

lovegtm

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In the 2% chance that things get totally bonkers in Oakland and the Warriors feel that the relationship with Durant is totally fucked, which team would offer most in a trade?

We've seen with Butler and Kawhi (who, if healthy, is better than Durant) that rentals are REALLY limited in the return they fetch. Who would get involved in the bidding war? The Knicks would probably wait till FA since they can't win this year anyway. The Lakers could make a decent package around Lonzo. Philly can't do much without giving up a key piece, although you could make a case for Butler + Miami 2021 working for both sides.

All total speculation, but hey, I'm bored.
 

ifmanis5

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If they don't get Green and Durant on the same page soon then something has to happen. I'm guessing Kerr gets it solved but this is the first dent in the juggernaut.
 

BigSoxFan

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Durant is going nowhere. But trading Draymond is potentially on the table if things don’t improve. I don’t expect it to reach that point but this is a team that is already at odds with each other AND is about to add Boogie to the mix.

Would Danny give up Smart (when he can be traded) and Jaylen for Draymond? Would GS accept? Probably not on both fronts but it works cap wise.

Smart replaces some of the things that Draymond gives the Warriors and Jaylen gives them a cheap young starter to extend their window. The Celtics would be adding an elite defender and playmaker in Green and he’d be a nice fit in a lineup that has Kyrie, Tatum, and Hayward to score.

None of this is happening but fun to speculate.
 

HomeRunBaker

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In the 2% chance that things get totally bonkers in Oakland and the Warriors feel that the relationship with Durant is totally fucked, which team would offer most in a trade?

We've seen with Butler and Kawhi (who, if healthy, is better than Durant) that rentals are REALLY limited in the return they fetch. Who would get involved in the bidding war? The Knicks would probably wait till FA since they can't win this year anyway. The Lakers could make a decent package around Lonzo. Philly can't do much without giving up a key piece, although you could make a case for Butler + Miami 2021 working for both sides.

All total speculation, but hey, I'm bored.
Running with this 2% scenario you can wager with close to 100% certainty yhat the Warriors would deal him to an EC team that they view as the least threat rather than looking to maximize a return. Myers isn't going to giftwrap Durant to pair with LeBron to challenge them in the WC. I'd imagine that EC team would offer a quality expiring player unless they felt they could win Durant over similar to what Toronto and Philly are trying to do with Kawhi and Butler respectively.

Ironically, the best match I see to accomplish goals for both teams would be the Knicks in exchange for Kanter's expiring which gives the Warriors frontcourt rotational depth for this years run while moving him to a team where he can't hurt them in this years playoffs. The Knicks get to generate an enormous buzz (don't forget the value of back page headlines in NY) while putting them in the drivers seat to retain him if they handle it properly.
 

HomeRunBaker

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So I go to RealGM Trade Checker to see if including Hezonja's expiring would make the numbers work (they do) when the restriction warnings popped up. Hezonja can't be traded until Dec 15th which is no big deal as even at 2% this trade isn't occurring prior to that but then this also came up...…….


Durant is a one year bird player, which means he must agree to the deal for any trade to happen. Further, if Durant agrees to be traded, his Bird status will be reset and he will be viewed as a non-bird free agent this summer.
 

lovegtm

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https://sports.yahoo.com/warriors-primary-concern-draymond-greens-conduct-detrimental-kevin-durants-future-team-053226752.html

Mostly just what was already known - but it strikes me once Green says something like that, there is no going back. We all know there are some conversations you just can’t take back once said
Particularly when they're aired publicly. Now that these reports have come out in the media, no one is going to let Durant forget that Green challenged his manhood and he did nothing.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Particularly when they're aired publicly. Now that these reports have come out in the media, no one is going to let Durant forget that Green challenged his manhood and he did nothing.
In another thread the other day we were discussing players energy levels in good/bad environments. Last night we saw a glimpse from the Warriors, particularly last nights "Big Three" of what coming to work into a negative setting dues to ones individual performance and energy level. It's a real thing.
 

lexrageorge

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So I go to RealGM Trade Checker to see if including Hezonja's expiring would make the numbers work (they do) when the restriction warnings popped up. Hezonja can't be traded until Dec 15th which is no big deal as even at 2% this trade isn't occurring prior to that but then this also came up...…….
As the one that was disagreeing with you on this, I stand corrected. I also noticed the following line in the NBA CBA FAQ that I had missed earlier regarding "Non-Qualifying Veteran Free Agents":

Players who were to be Larry Bird or Early Bird free agents, were playing on one-year contracts, and were traded mid-season.
In the hypothetical that Durant were to be traded to Boston, the Celtics would still have the "Non-Bird Exception" available to them, which would allow them to offer Durant a 20% raise. He is making $30M, and has a 15% trade kicker. So KD would still be near or at the max were he to stay with Boston. Same applies to almost any team to which he gets traded.

So, I'm not sure how much it matters if KD loses his Bird rights, but I could be overlooking something. He would still have to agree to the trade. And, there is no way, no how GS is going to trade him within the West.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Particularly when they're aired publicly. Now that these reports have come out in the media, no one is going to let Durant forget that Green challenged his manhood and he did nothing.
If Durant wants Green gone (either because he can’t deal with him day to day, or because letting this one incident stand would be an affront to his manhood) he can easily ask management to move him, and I’m 99.9% sure they’d oblige.

Indeed, If I’m management, I’d tell him and Kleiman (in so many words) “we love Draymond but we love you even more — so while we’d love to keep you both, if he’s a sticking point to you, we’ll trade him.” I suspect this is roughly how they’ll proceed. Draymond is obviously an integral part of everything they do, but between Looney, Bell, and whatever they can get for Draymond, I suspect they could still build a championship team around Steph, Klay and KD.

Basically, I’m not sure how this incident changes all that much. Given that Durant’s weakness is that he can be hypersensitive, and Green’s is that he can be a loudmouth bully, something like this was bound to happen (and likely had happened before this, if in milder form). If KD was planning on leaving next summer anyway, that obviously doesn’t change now. If he really wanted to stay but just can’t live with Dray$ anymore, the team can and almost certainly will oblige him.

Or: this whole thing completely blows over, and two weeks from now Dray and KD are BFFs (kinda like Dray and LeBron are, past dramas notwithstanding) and the media has found a new earth-shattering drama to obsess over.
 
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ifmanis5

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My theory is that Dray got on KD about his burner accounts. Maybe said something like 'oh, what are you gonna do, hide on Twitter and at me?' This stuff either permanently burned a bridge or it may bring them together after everybody makes up but it won't be the same. Clearly a line was crossed, KD felt disrespected and whatever Dray said, there is no going back to before that laundry was aired in the huddle. If for some reason you missed it, video below.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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As the one that was disagreeing with you on this, I stand corrected. I also noticed the following line in the NBA CBA FAQ that I had missed earlier regarding "Non-Qualifying Veteran Free Agents":



In the hypothetical that Durant were to be traded to Boston, the Celtics would still have the "Non-Bird Exception" available to them, which would allow them to offer Durant a 20% raise. He is making $30M, and has a 15% trade kicker. So KD would still be near or at the max were he to stay with Boston. Same applies to almost any team to which he gets traded.

So, I'm not sure how much it matters if KD loses his Bird rights, but I could be overlooking something. He would still have to agree to the trade. And, there is no way, no how GS is going to trade him within the West.
I think the 5 th year is the big thing.
 

HomeRunBaker

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My theory is that Dray got on KD about his burner accounts. Maybe said something like 'oh, what are you gonna do, hide on Twitter and at me?' This stuff either permanently burned a bridge or it may bring them together after everybody makes up but it won't be the same. Clearly a line was crossed, KD felt disrespected and whatever Dray said, there is no going back to before that laundry was aired in the huddle. If for some reason you missed it, video below.
Thoughts from this clip:

* Klay immediately moves to the chair between them as he can tell things are beginning to get contentious. He's a FA this summer as well and doesn't come across as the type who enjoys this type of drama. Note that he also had a rough game last night without his usual spunk. He hated this shit.

* The value of veteran leadership shown by Iguodala and Livingston jumping in the huddle to be peacemakers. In the NBA it is the Players, and not the coaches, who self-police best in these situations. Last time I recall a coach getting involved in an altercation was Jeff Van Gundy tackling a player (Mourning maybe?). Could you imagine if this beef took place on the Wizards back in the Arenas, Blatche, JaVale, Crittenton days without these guys around to maintain the peace in front of the cameras?

* The Warriors are moving into a new arena next year with outrageous ticket prices. Assuming Dray and Durant cannot co-exist any longer why would Myers/Lacob allow the former to run the latter out of town? Durant has stated that he is done taking discounts. Referring back up to lexrageorge's response above....Durant does leave money on the table by signing anywhere but Golden State. Was his choice of words "not taking a discount" a hint that he DOES intend on remaining with the Warriors provided that a few "minor" details are ironed out first? Namely, ridding himself of having to deal with Dray on a daily basis. Just a thought but Durant surely holds all the power if he does wish to remain by not demanding to be traded...….but in demanding that Draymond be traded.

* Sign me up for the first and every Draymond/Durant matchup on opposite ends of the floor moving forward.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Isn't the narrative from the media that Durant feels like he doesn't get enough credit for the Warriors success and that it'll never be seen as "his" team despite the Finals MVPs? If that's the case I can't see him signing up to be Lebron's sidekick in LA. Now the Clippers? That's kind of interesting.
Funny KD would feel like he isn't getting enough credit when he specifically picked this team (or so we're told) because he didn't want to be lead dog . . . .
 

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When you watch the full video, it looks like a common huddle disagreement. Nothing really that bad other than some jawing back and forth. Klay and Iggy continue to be some of my favorite non-Celtics. They're just class acts and handled the situation perfectly. The problem here is that you have a hot head in Draymond and an ultra thin-skinned person in Durant. That's a combustible combination.

We'll see how this plays out but I'm starting to think Draymond might actually get traded. Durant is a top 3 player in the league in his prime so you have to pull out all the stops to keep him even if he might be leaning towards leaving. He clearly has trouble co-existing with headstrong guys like Russell and Draymond. With that said, there have been plenty of beefs over the course of NBA history. Bird and McHale couldn't stand each other but they made it work. The Warriors will give it a try but if things don't improve, I think Draymond is gone.
 

cheech13

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I see a growing consensus for "trade Draymond", but what happens if you do that and KD still leaves? You'd go from four (five if you count Boogie) All-Stars to two. The championship window would effectively be closed. That seems way too risky.