16 Days in January—Determining Trade Deadline Activity
- Thread starter RSN Diaspora
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Theoretically, I guess, although the C’s seem to have had issues finding such a player, no?
it’s cool that the C’s are yet again interested in a guy like Jerami Grant, but there’s no way to get him.
Lots of chatter around the deadline every year and very little happens.
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preferably one in the same, though I wouldn't mind a 2nd shooter as well. I'm done with playmakers who can't shoot unless it's Ben Simmons.
I get it’s rhetorical, but even Simmons. Our D is good. Maybe we could hold teams to 85 pts/gm. But losing 85-83 won’t feel much better!
The thing about Simmons is he brings you a better version of what Smart does, but with positional versatility that makes it a lot easier to offset the weaknesses
They already have two Cs. It's just that they view Horford as salary ballast for a larger deal, and if they trade Horford they need something better than Eno Freenando for all the games that Time Lord misses. They don't want that larger deal to be a backup C and salary filler while sacrificing draft picks that could, in theory, be used for an actual impact player. Deals like that are how you end up rebuilding around top eight picks as your stars force their way out of town.
Don’t confuse shooting with scoring. Simmons has been a better and more efficient scorer than Smart since his rookie season.
“They’ll look for a big upgrade without having to give up anything”
You don’t say…
Do you think he enhances Tatum/Brown? We’d still have spacing and shooting issues. I’d rather replace Horford with Simmons than Smart.
I absolutely think Simmons enhances the Jay’s. He’s such a skilled passer and would create tons of opportunities for them. The half court issues would remain but I think the offense would expand quite a bit with Simmons.
The biggest thing Simmons would do is push pace, which I do think would help Brown and Tatum (particularly Brown). He's not a perfect fit, but having two wings who can shoot helps him fit, even acknowledging he and TL are somewhat duplicative from a shooting perspective...
Omg absolutely! Simmons is one of best playmakers in the game who softens rhe defense because they back off him allowing dribble penetration which opens up passing lanes for scorers like Tatum and Brown.
Take this with a pretty big grain(s) of salt, but I'm hearing discussions about a Marcus Smart for Duncan Robinson deal. My level of confidence with the information is a 4 on a scale of 1-10 (my information comes from the Heat side, not the Celtics)
What’s going on with Robinson’s shooting? Conceptually, this is a deal I would consider if we think 2019-2020 Robinson is coming back.
I would do that trade too if I were Miami. I suspect there are Cs fans who would love this for a variety of reasons too - maybe not the least of which is that Smart won't be playing for their team.
Given how both franchises have fared over the past few years, I won't bet against the Heat in any deal they make. Miami seems like a great fit for Smart too. He can just go wreak havoc without having to do all the other stuff he is asked to do in Boston.
Finally, I think Miami getting Smart for Robinson helps their playoff prospects. They are actually kind of scary at full strength with that roster. YRMV.
Given how both franchises have fared over the past few years, I won't bet against the Heat in any deal they make. Miami seems like a great fit for Smart too. He can just go wreak havoc without having to do all the other stuff he is asked to do in Boston.
Finally, I think Miami getting Smart for Robinson helps their playoff prospects. They are actually kind of scary at full strength with that roster. YRMV.
Based purely on the Juancho trade, and the team's overall position in the standings, one would assume that any deal Brad makes is going to be for the future, not the present. Would Robinson be that kind of acquisition?
I heard some Heat writers throw out Robinson/Smart, in conjunction with National people saying MIA wants off that Robinson contract since he's losing his job to Struss.
I would want ZERO part of it. Robinson is a tall PP, he is a bad defender with basically no plus qualities other than shooting, and this year his shot is gone. He had 1 year (bubble) as a good player. His contract looks like an albatross.
I would want ZERO part of it. Robinson is a tall PP, he is a bad defender with basically no plus qualities other than shooting, and this year his shot is gone. He had 1 year (bubble) as a good player. His contract looks like an albatross.
Also, for all that he's a bad fit, Marcus Smart has been a very good NBA player for a number of years, Duncan Robinson not so much.
Breaking up this shyt show of a team would be for the future AND the present.
Breaking up this team is fine; I would hate for next season to be another "run it back with Smart and the Jays" insanity.
Still, dumping Smart for a Duncan Robinson player seems like a sideways move at best, and could easily be worse.
Yeah, I'd rather just tank than do that.
I know, I know, "the Jays won't like it if we tank", but that's the path to better players, and the Celtics need better players to keep them happy.
Are there realistic expectiaons for anything more than sideways moves? We don’t have touted young players with value like say a Kuminga that will return an upgrade. You aren’t getting back a better player than Marcus Smart in a trade for him…..only a different player. You aren’t getting back a better player than Jaylen Brown in a trade for him…..only a different player(s) who project as better positional fits.
I’m all for breaking up this team but with the realism that the return isn’t going to be for better players due to the limited value every one of ours have sans Tatum and Brown.
Yeah that’s pretty much it. It’s hard to make good deals when you don’t really have any assets to trade. A sideways deal changes the mix up, which may be worth a shot since this current mix is clearly not working and not going anywhere.
I don't necessarily disagree. But all the moves last summer were clearly touted by nearly everyone (here and in the media) as getting the C's in position to add an impact player. So the reality setting in is a bit disappointing.
Where I do disagree is that Duncan Robinson is the right target for a Marcus Smart trade. Robinson maybe checks one box (shooting, assuming his last season wasn't a fluke), but unchecks a lot of others.
Yeah I’m just not convinced Duncan Robinson is a sidegrade. I’m up for trying almost anything to change the mix of similarly talented players but I don’t think Robinson is similar in talent to Smart. There has to be something more interesting we could do
It was two years, not 1.
19/20 he shot 45% from three on 8.3 attempts
20/21 he shot 41% from thee on 8.5 attempts
I think there are hypothetically Smart upgrade moves if you package him with picks but also, I think that a sideways move can be a solid upgrade if the fit is better.
I don't like Robinson because I think that's not a sideways move, it's a clear downgrade to me.
A sideways move for a better fit player would be very a very nice move as it would probably give a bump to a bunch of other players
2 years as a good shooter, his 20/21 season was pretty unimpressive in every other aspect of the game and made his overall value more neutral than positive given his garbage D. You don't pay what he's getting paid for a guy who has every bit of his value in having to hit 40% on 8 3PA a game just to be a neutral player.
I’m not the biggest Smart fan on this board (I was calling for him to be traded most of last year) but straight up for Duncan Robinson seems like a horrendous trade.
Robinson’s a one trick pony (albeit it’s a very good trick to have) who’s kind of stunk this year and is losing playing time to Max Strus. All of this even after he just signed a 5 yr, 90 million dollar contract (yikes. Thats already looking like a really bad contract)
He’s also the same age as Marcus so it’s not like you’re improving your future either.
Robinson’s a one trick pony (albeit it’s a very good trick to have) who’s kind of stunk this year and is losing playing time to Max Strus. All of this even after he just signed a 5 yr, 90 million dollar contract (yikes. Thats already looking like a really bad contract)
He’s also the same age as Marcus so it’s not like you’re improving your future either.
Positional fit is one of the areas where the "deck chairs" need to be re-shuffled
File this under OBVIOUS, but Brad needs to unearth that IT/Kyrie/Kemba of the future ballhandler/PG to make the modern NBA team work. Smart isn't that (but a good wing). Adding shooting before a playmaker seems premature, but I guess Brad can walk/chew gum at the same time.
Here are some PG rocks that could be flipped/examined (obviously they are good and would be costly):
Blocked PGs/potential leaps: Jalen Brunson, Tyus Jones, Monte Morris, Quickly, Coby White
Young Cadillacs that would need Jaylen Brown's name involved to start conversations: SGA, DeJounte Murray, Haliburton, Ben Simmons
Vet PGs that I'd just rather avoid (+ they'd be costly): Lilliard, Fox
Adding our next ballhandler is Brads' #1 priority at the trade deadline/this summer. Is there any world where Rozier could return without including Brown? Maybe Terry could be that 3rd star? still love his edge/attitude
File this under OBVIOUS, but Brad needs to unearth that IT/Kyrie/Kemba of the future ballhandler/PG to make the modern NBA team work. Smart isn't that (but a good wing). Adding shooting before a playmaker seems premature, but I guess Brad can walk/chew gum at the same time.
Here are some PG rocks that could be flipped/examined (obviously they are good and would be costly):
Blocked PGs/potential leaps: Jalen Brunson, Tyus Jones, Monte Morris, Quickly, Coby White
Young Cadillacs that would need Jaylen Brown's name involved to start conversations: SGA, DeJounte Murray, Haliburton, Ben Simmons
Vet PGs that I'd just rather avoid (+ they'd be costly): Lilliard, Fox
Adding our next ballhandler is Brads' #1 priority at the trade deadline/this summer. Is there any world where Rozier could return without including Brown? Maybe Terry could be that 3rd star? still love his edge/attitude
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Brunson is definitely not blocked he's starting for the 5 seed in the West. Might get traded anyway given his contract issue, but it won't be cheap.
At the end of last year I proposed a Jrue Holiday type of package to get Dejounte Murray and was basically laughed off of the board talking about how awful of an overpay it was.
I still think that would be a good trade for the Celtics but that may not even be enough anymore.
I think a Holiday type trade (basically punting all of your picks for a borderline All Star/top 30-40 player who’s a good system fit) is the only real avenue for improvement.
That is unless Beal or Mitchell essentially force their way to Boston (putting them on the short list of acceptable teams with other teams who can’t offer much)
Yep he's started half the games especially with Luka's CPAP machine going into overdrive this season.
Not happening now (trade deadline), but rumors of a sticky contract situation might make him available this summer.
You'll catch arrows in the back for most fake trade suggestions around here, just another part of the Cellars charm
Last summer HRB suggested Murray/Keldon Johnson for Brown. I kicked around Barnes/Haliburton for Brown. Nighthob threw out SGA. All were criticized. I'm a Brown fan but would be interested in all three of those PGs
Here's a weird/interesting would you do it question:
A deal based around:
Al Horford
for
Buddy Hield
Buddy is overpaid, but he's a shooter. Gets Celtics under the tax this year, adds about 6M over cutting Al next year, and has a 3rd year at $18.5M (interesting decreasing salary structure).
I think I'd need SAC to add something, but it's an interesting basis for a deal.
A deal based around:
Al Horford
for
Buddy Hield
Buddy is overpaid, but he's a shooter. Gets Celtics under the tax this year, adds about 6M over cutting Al next year, and has a 3rd year at $18.5M (interesting decreasing salary structure).
I think I'd need SAC to add something, but it's an interesting basis for a deal.
The C's would have to pick up another center somewhere, because with Time Lord's frequent absences, the prospect of all those minutes going to Bruno and Freedom is terrifying.
Al Horford is not a good basketball player. Sacramento is desperately trying to make the playoffs/playin this year. Trading Hield for Al makes them a much worse team.
No team is taking Horford without a pick stapled to him or BOS taking back a worse contract. Hield's descending contract is not the albatross it once seemed to be.
The more recent word is that SAC is going to re-set if they don't make up ground fast. They'll still try to get someone like Simmons if they can, but if not they'll cash out Hield and Barnes now.
Honestly... Al Horford is probably still a better basketball player than Buddy Hield who is not good at all, but really it's about clearing a lot of cap space for SAC and having the flexibilty in the offseason to:
1. Guarantee Horford and use him as a $26M expiring in trades
2. Use him as $14.5M in expiring trade to a team that cuts him
3. Cut him and save cap space.
I’ve been beating this drum for a while; think it makes sense, and is realistic. Either keep Hield or he’s a guy to include with picks for a “third star” in the off-season.
This is hyperbolic. Second on the team in box +/-. One of the better passing bigs in the league still (93rd percentile in assist rate and 97th in assist/TO ratio) and doesn't turn it over (84th percentile). Hasn't shot well this year and is a little underwater in on/off (-1.8). Not a good basketball player is a stretch.
I'd pass on Duncan. He's the type of player you hope to get lucky with, not the type you give up assets for when he's in the middle of a down year just to have the privilege of paying him $18 mil for the next 4+ years. Strus would be the guy to trade Smart for, but the contracts obviously don't line up.
I grew up 15-20 minutes from Duncan Robinson so I'm a bit of a fan. If they did trade for him, I'd learn to like it. I worry how he ages though. While shooting is the last skill to go, the rest of his game can't really afford any type of declines.
Getting Duncan Robinson for Smart also REQUIRES making another move for a PG (at the very least, someone who can bring up the ball), regardless of what the team does with DS. I would heavily prefer Huerter if that were a real option. While not a PG either, Huerter could probably fake it for a few minutes a game and I like his overall game more. He's also 4 years younger.
Robinson would be a gamble. The C's would be getting rid of one of their more valuable trade chips in the hope Robinson will rebound. If he gets back to 40%+ from 3 on 8+ attempts a game, it'll do wonders for the Celtics offense, especially Jaylen Brown. I could also see TL benefiting a lot with no MS and a return to form from Tatum and DRob. TL/Tatum/Jaylen/Duncan/xxx is a very intriguing lineup If Tatum/Brown/Duncan are all hitting 38%+ from 3 on around 8 attempts a game. 2 of TL's biggest strengths are offensive rebounding and his passing/vision.
Ideally, xxx would be a PG who can shoot the open 3, doesn't need a lot of FGA, and has better playmaking skills than DS and Smart but with TL/Tatum/Jaylen/Duncan, the team could get by with a non shooting PG. DS would be an ok fit with that core, though I think he'd still be better coming off the bench where he'd be the 2nd scoring option.
I dunno, maybe I would trade Smart of Duncan if I knew Duncan (and Tatum) would revert back to form. I see Jaylen Brown and TL thriving in that situation, but Tatum would benefit too. Whoever the 5th player is could drastically change the look of the team too. Go with PP and you have 4 deadly shooters and TL on the court.
Seriously though... adding Duncan to this team would completely change the identity. On paper, it would go from a meh shooting team to an awesome one. Tatum, Brown, Duncan, PP, JRich, Grant Williams. One would almost have to go out of their way to not have enough shooting on the court. Outside of the 2 big lineup, anyway. One would think if the C's acquired Robinson for Marcus Smart, it would be the death of the 2 big lineup. I can't see Ime going with TL/Horford/Jay/Jay/Duncan and I can't see trading Smart for Duncan if Duncan wasn't going to start.
I grew up 15-20 minutes from Duncan Robinson so I'm a bit of a fan. If they did trade for him, I'd learn to like it. I worry how he ages though. While shooting is the last skill to go, the rest of his game can't really afford any type of declines.
Getting Duncan Robinson for Smart also REQUIRES making another move for a PG (at the very least, someone who can bring up the ball), regardless of what the team does with DS. I would heavily prefer Huerter if that were a real option. While not a PG either, Huerter could probably fake it for a few minutes a game and I like his overall game more. He's also 4 years younger.
Robinson would be a gamble. The C's would be getting rid of one of their more valuable trade chips in the hope Robinson will rebound. If he gets back to 40%+ from 3 on 8+ attempts a game, it'll do wonders for the Celtics offense, especially Jaylen Brown. I could also see TL benefiting a lot with no MS and a return to form from Tatum and DRob. TL/Tatum/Jaylen/Duncan/xxx is a very intriguing lineup If Tatum/Brown/Duncan are all hitting 38%+ from 3 on around 8 attempts a game. 2 of TL's biggest strengths are offensive rebounding and his passing/vision.
Ideally, xxx would be a PG who can shoot the open 3, doesn't need a lot of FGA, and has better playmaking skills than DS and Smart but with TL/Tatum/Jaylen/Duncan, the team could get by with a non shooting PG. DS would be an ok fit with that core, though I think he'd still be better coming off the bench where he'd be the 2nd scoring option.
I dunno, maybe I would trade Smart of Duncan if I knew Duncan (and Tatum) would revert back to form. I see Jaylen Brown and TL thriving in that situation, but Tatum would benefit too. Whoever the 5th player is could drastically change the look of the team too. Go with PP and you have 4 deadly shooters and TL on the court.
Seriously though... adding Duncan to this team would completely change the identity. On paper, it would go from a meh shooting team to an awesome one. Tatum, Brown, Duncan, PP, JRich, Grant Williams. One would almost have to go out of their way to not have enough shooting on the court. Outside of the 2 big lineup, anyway. One would think if the C's acquired Robinson for Marcus Smart, it would be the death of the 2 big lineup. I can't see Ime going with TL/Horford/Jay/Jay/Duncan and I can't see trading Smart for Duncan if Duncan wasn't going to start.
yeah, Al Horford is not a $27M a year player, but he's definitely a player a lot of playoff teams would like if he made $15M. I would guess the Celtics' plan is to wait and see if someone gets hurt on a contender that makes an Al trade make sense. One tough thing is matching. Like Al would be a great fit for GS given Draymond's health issues, but I just don't see the salary match. Nuggets would love him too given how they run offense through a big and get obliterated when Jokic is out, but salary matching is tough.
In the end I bet they hold him and trade him in the summer as a flexibly sized expiring, but he's not a BAD player
He'd be far more effective in a 20-22 minute roll but it's clear he's in steep decline. I doubt the Kings would be all that interested unless it's to save money. So Hield for Horford might work. The Kings definitely aren't adding anything of value to that deal to make it work.
Playing off theme of Horford/Smart for shooting, you could do those two for D'Angelo Russell, Okogie, and salary flotsam. That helps Minny right now and gets the Celtics the kind of talented but imperfect asset you might have become a third star, one who is offensively-oriented and can pass. But ultimately I don't think Russell is a great fit.
Not sure it helps Minnesota either, especially when you factor in DLo and KAT are buddy buddy and DLO has been playing really well of late.
What you said and I think Ime would want to strangle DLo after about a week with his defensive “intensity” and “effort”