16 Days in January—Determining Trade Deadline Activity

PedroKsBambino

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Purely talent-wise Cousins is a better fit than Kanter.

But....

the problem with Cousins is never the talent, it's the rest of it. I get it is not impossible he somehow puts together 30 really good games, but to me nearly the last thing this team needs is a selfish, unreliable, undisciplined addition even if it is a talented one. There's a reason no one signed him (and thus, that we can be pretty sure if he has any trade value it is quite minimal)
 

Cellar-Door

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Purely talent-wise Cousins is a better fit than Kanter.

But....

the problem with Cousins is never the talent, it's the rest of it. I get it is not impossible he somehow puts together 30 really good games, but to me nearly the last thing this team needs is a selfish, unreliable, undisciplined addition even if it is a talented one. There's a reason no one signed him (and thus, that we can be pretty sure if he has any trade value it is quite minimal)
Cousins is easily waivable if he has locker room issues (though there's been no indications of that for several years) and as a player he's a very good fit for our bench. He rebounds better than anyone on our team other than Enes, he passes well (his AST% this year is the same as TL, his career numbers are better), he doesn't turn it over much, and he plays good defense.

He seems like a no-brainer in some ways if he's free. He'd slot in as our 4th best big behind Al, TL, Grant. If he's a problem you just cut him
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Technically not "trade" related, but with Ime seemingly committed to "TWO BIGZ NO MATTER WHAT",
Al and TL played together for only 10+ minutes last night and did not play together down the stretch.

I mean TL is a favorite of mine but if they aren't going to use him for vertical spacing down the stretch, I'm not sure how much he adds so maybe even the threat of Al shooting might open up the court in the 4Q.

Ideally, though, the Cs will learn to use TL more down the stretch as he really could be a weapon.
 

Cellar-Door

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Is that true? I thought he got hunted a lot on defense.

He can hit the 3, though, which would be useful as Horford mistakenly left his 3 point shot in his locker in OKC.
he's been good this year in MIL system, and both DARKO and RAPTOR have liked his defense the last several years. He's going to have matchup issues at times like most bigs, but off the bench he's pretty solid in a lot more situations than Kanter or Jabari
 

slamminsammya

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I don’t disagree in theory but Grant Williams played 22 minutes with 2 points, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, and 2 turnovers. He has far too many games where he’s invisible. His efficient shooting percentages are nice but he needs to actually shoot the ball more than a few times a game to be useful.

Hard to feel good about this team at all. They look like Tatum, Brown, and not much else.
This post seems to indicate a misunderstanding of how role players like Grant get shots. 80% of his 2s and 100% of his 3s are assisted. A game where he is "invisible" (at least wrt scoring) is an indictment of his teammates and the creators, and has very little to do with Grant.
 

Cesar Crespo

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This post seems to indicate a misunderstanding of how role players like Grant get shots. 80% of his 2s and 100% of his 3s are assisted. A game where he is "invisible" (at least wrt scoring) is an indictment of his teammates and the creators, and has very little to do with Grant.
unless he's failing to get open. I guess you could put that on the creators. Grant is going to struggle in some match ups though.
 

slamminsammya

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unless he's failing to get open. I guess you could put that on the creators. Grant is going to struggle in some match ups though.
That is a good point generally but in his case most of his shots involve him sitting in a corner and maybe relocating a few feet to either side. He isn't a prolific cutter and he isn't a great roll man so its not like he normally is generating opportunities for himself with a lot of off ball action.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Where only 4 games separate the 5 seed from the 12 seed in the east and 2 games separate the 5th seed and the 9th in the West...

It would probably be a sellers market. While I think the C's should be looking to add players, I don't think they should be opposed to moving players if they are looking like no better than a 9-10 seed come February. This is especially true if it is a seller's market.

edit: The Kings pick this year unprotected has the potential to be really nice. It's probably gettable too.
 
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Cellar-Door

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Where only 4 games separate the 5 seed from the 12 seed in the east and 2 games separate the 5th seed and the 9th in the West...

It would probably be a sellers market. While I think the C's should be looking to add players, I don't think they should be opposed to moving players if they are looking like no better than a 9-10 seed come February. This is especially true if it is a seller's market.

edit: The Kings pick this year unprotected has the potential to be really nice. It's probably gettable too.
I'm just waiting, I can FEEL the terrible Kings move coming, only question is with whom. I think the only reason they haven't done something stupid yet is they really think they can get Simmons (which would not be stupid). It's early, they're still dreaming of trading Hield and some pieces for Simmons, or Fox for Brown. When those dreams die... that's when it gets interesting.
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

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So I'd rather watch the marginally more competitive team that includes Schröder that the weaker team that would take the court in the second half of this season if Schröder is traded. I don't know what he'd fetch, but aren't we taking about netting some longshot/ eurostash / Tacko-style project who might -- might -- make the end of the roster in 2024, a latter day Fab Melo? Covid will kill us all by 2025, so let's try to make the second round this year so I can have an extra week of basketball. Schröder, warts and all, is a real NBA player who might go off in a playoff game.
This is just a dumbass uninformed piece of crap of a post; just a disgrace to the Port Cellar. It is the J.R. Giddens of Schröder takes.

Looking at what he "brings" to the table, especially in the Spurs/Knicks debacle pf the last few days, I think you take anything you can for him. Second rounder. Bag of balls.

With Schröder on the floor at crunch time, you have three guys on the court whose instincts are to go iso. And with the Jays and Schröder all taking turns bulling into double- and triple- teams, that leaves Smart drifting on the perimeter (where he isn't that dangerous) and a big trying to get out of the way.

Getting Schröder off the roster is addition by subtraction--now you have only two iso-guys at crunch time, both of whom still have potential to improve. And maybe with Schröder out of the way, an actual shooter can get on the floor to counter the cacophony of congestion that is the Celtics crunch-time offense. Grant, PP, Richardson...even if they stand in the corner they might pull somebody away from our stars.
 
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RSN Diaspora

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I realize it's only 1/7, but after the debacle that was last night's game, it's hard not to see the Celtics as sellers right now. Yes, this is a rash assessment based on two awful games against bad teams, but given that the season's mediocrity has left the Celtics with virtually zero margin for error in the new year, I think you have to start expanding the universe of players you're willing to consider trading. Jays are probably untouchable, but that should likely be it, even as much of a gut punch as trading TL or Smart would be.
 

NomarsFool

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With the 11th pick, the mock draft has them picking whichever PG they think is the best on the board. Unfortunately, neither of them look super exciting. Doesn't look like a strong PG draft, I'd say.
 

Eddie Jurak

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This is just a dumbass uninformed piece of crap of a post; just a disgrace to the Port Cellar. It is the J.R. Giddens of Schröder takes.

Looking at what he "brings" to the table, especially in the Spurs/Knicks debacle pf the last few days, I think you take anything you can for him. Second rounder. Bag of balls.

With Schröder on the floor at crunch time, you have three guys on the court whose instincts are to go iso. And with the Jays and Schröder all taking turns bulling into double- and triple- teams, that leaves Smart drifting on the perimeter (where he isn't that dangerous) and a big trying to get out of the way.

Getting Schröder off the roster is addition by subtractions--now you have only two iso-guys at crunch time, bot of whom still have potential to improve. And maybe with Schröder out of the way, an actual shooter can get on the floor to counter the cacophony of congestion that is the Celtics crunch-time offense. Grant, PP, Richardson...even if they stand in the corner they might pull somebody away from our stars.
Co-sign!
 

Cellar-Door

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So Schroder for Delon Wright works under the cap.

Probably not a ton of incentive for either side, given ATL may prefer Wright, and the Celtics may not want to add tax for a fit change at backup PG, but he's a guy you CAN play with Smart late in game given he's shot 38% over the last 3 years from 3
 

benhogan

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So Schroder for Delon Wright works under the cap.

Probably not a ton of incentive for either side, given ATL may prefer Wright, and the Celtics may not want to add tax for a fit change at backup PG, but he's a guy you CAN play with Smart late in game given he's shot 38% over the last 3 years from 3
I suspect the C's won't be adding to the tax bill. DS, due to his salary and his ppg, makes him a more valuable chit.

but I've always liked Wright and wanted to see the C's get him. They could have had him for TT when SAC got desperate for a BIG this summer.
 
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Eddie Jurak

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Maybe they will ship out Schroder and Juancho for a top 55 protected second round pick and some partially offsetting salary to get under the tax line.
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

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With Schröder on the floor at crunch time, you have three guys on the court whose instincts are to go iso. And with the Jays and Schröder all taking turns bulling into double- and triple- teams, that leaves Smart drifting on the perimeter (where he isn't that dangerous) and a big trying to get out of the way.
You are all noise, no signal, and a fucking moron to boot.

Schröder is a flawed player, but when defenses lock down and take away the easy baskets, being able to break your man down off the dribble becomes the most valuable offensive skill on the floor. There are exactly three players on the Celtics roster who have a good enough handle and sufficient hops to beat their man to the rack in the half court:

Tatum
Brown
Schröder

That's it, every other Celtic needs a pick, or motion, or the defender to make a mistake.

So you want to dump one of the few players that can get you a basket in the teeth of the defense because Smart can't hit a three? Because Horford has regressed to the point that nobody guards him more than ten feet from the hoop?

The "problem" with Schröder is that defenses know they can collapse on him and have no fear that they are giving up an open three. Stevens and Ime need to pair Schröder in the backcourt with someone who can shoot, not trade Schröder so as to gratify braying asses who don't understand the game.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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You are all noise, no signal, and a fucking moron to boot.

Schröder is a flawed player, but when defenses lock down and take away the easy baskets, being able to break your man down off the dribble becomes the most valuable offensive skill on the floor. There are exactly three players on the Celtics roster who have a good enough handle and sufficient hops to beat their man to the rack in the half court:

Tatum
Brown
Schröder

That's it, every other Celtic needs a pick, or motion, or the defender to make a mistake.

So you want to dump one of the few players that can get you a basket in the teeth of the defense because Smart can't hit a three? Because Horford has regressed to the point that nobody guards him more than ten feet from the hoop?

The "problem" with Schröder is that defenses know they can collapse on him and have no fear that they are giving up an open three. Stevens and Ime need to pair Schröder in the backcourt with someone who can shoot, not trade Schröder so as to gratify braying asses who don't understand the game.
Dude, criticize the post, not the poster.

The other guy has one thing correct. Yes, DS is one of the few guys who can break the defender down but if he's not getting the ball in crunch time, he's not breaking anyone down.

Just by way of offense, playing DS and MS together at crunch time with the Jays doing most of the ball handling is suboptimal. (I agree that there are defensive reasons that might argue for both being on the floor.)

Ime is still trying to win. I wonder how much longer it has to go for him (and Brad) to write off this year.
 

benhogan

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Ime is still trying to win. I wonder how much longer it has to go for him (and Brad) to write off this year.
when you say "write off this year" do you mean trade short-term assets (Schroder) for future assets (pick/young blocked player)?

I hope Brad is working the lines pretty hard now until Feb.10

I doubt they will ever "write off this year" by committing to develop Nesmith/PP with big minutes (unless forced due to injuries). They'd rather play exp. veterans big minutes for an extra win this season.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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when you say "write off this year" do you mean trade short-term assets (Schroder) for future assets (pick/young blocked player)?

I hope Brad is working the lines pretty hard now until Feb.10

I doubt they will ever commit to developing Nesmith, PP with big minutes unless forced due to injuries. They'd rather play exp. veterans big minutes for an extra win this season.
My own opinion is that they aren't going to get anything decent enough to make a trade by the deadline but if this trajectory continues, they should commit to figuring out what they have in RL and AN.

I don't think growth in linear and certainly there's a legitimate possibility that lightbulbs go off and they figure out the right path and personnel to being better in the 4Q but until then, man it's tough to watch (or to even think about watching).
 

Cesar Crespo

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You are all noise, no signal, and a fucking moron to boot.

Schröder is a flawed player, but when defenses lock down and take away the easy baskets, being able to break your man down off the dribble becomes the most valuable offensive skill on the floor. There are exactly three players on the Celtics roster who have a good enough handle and sufficient hops to beat their man to the rack in the half court:

Tatum
Brown
Schröder

That's it, every other Celtic needs a pick, or motion, or the defender to make a mistake.

So you want to dump one of the few players that can get you a basket in the teeth of the defense because Smart can't hit a three? Because Horford has regressed to the point that nobody guards him more than ten feet from the hoop?

The "problem" with Schröder is that defenses know they can collapse on him and have no fear that they are giving up an open three. Stevens and Ime need to pair Schröder in the backcourt with someone who can shoot, not trade Schröder so as to gratify braying asses who don't understand the game.
They need to trade Schroder because as your post says, he's a terrible fit on the team. Schroder isn't worth building around or bringing in players to "pair" with him. He's a role player and his role has less value on the C's because he's a square peg and the Celtics are round holes.
 
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PedroKsBambino

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I do think they should be playing RL and AN (as well as PP) because they need to be assessing. That occurs in practice as well as games, but my sense over last two weeks is they’ve been focused on winning games more than assessing. And given where they are it’s time to adjust.

the reason to deal DS for me is primarily about enabling the above. I’m fine keeping him and seeing if they get hot as he’d be useful in playoffs….but they need to utilize more guys to enable some learning if they keep him
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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I am fine with “assessing” the Romeo’s and Nesmith’s of the world; with the likely ancillary benefit of improving the teams draft pick for next year. The challenge there remains what the Jay’s think about what would probably be seen as punting this season.
 

benhogan

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I am fine with “assessing” the Romeo’s and Nesmith’s of the world; with the likely ancillary benefit of improving the teams draft pick for next year. The challenge there remains what the Jay’s think about what would probably be seen as punting this season.
This team wins/loses based on Tatum/Brown's performance and that's probably how they think.

I'm sure they are confident they can & should WIN regardless of whether Schroder or PP or Romeo is on the floor with them

This hand wringing worrying about the JAYs mental state after trades/roster construction is absurd. Of course, Brad is in contact with them and their agents about the roster. Heck, he canvassed them and Smart about IME pre-hire.
 

chilidawg

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Dude, criticize the post, not the poster.

The other guy has one thing correct. Yes, DS is one of the few guys who can break the defender down but if he's not getting the ball in crunch time, he's not breaking anyone down.

Just by way of offense, playing DS and MS together at crunch time with the Jays doing most of the ball handling is suboptimal. (I agree that there are defensive reasons that might argue for both being on the floor.)

Ime is still trying to win. I wonder how much longer it has to go for him (and Brad) to write off this year.
Wasn't he quoting his own post?
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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This hand wringing worrying about the JAYs mental state after trades/roster construction is absurd. Of course, Brad is in contact with them and their agents about the roster. Heck, he canvassed them and Smart about IME pre-hire.
Confident players ask out of what they deem to be non ideal situations all the time; presumably it’s not due to a lack of confidence in their own skills but of those around them (both on and off the court). I have no idea as to the mental state of anyone on the team but if fans have concerns about the future of the team and it’s ability to win, I suspect those in the team may as well.

The teams future seemed a lot brighter a few years ago than it does now.
 

Cesar Crespo

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The teams future seemed a lot brighter a few years ago than it does now.
They pissed away too many assets over the years. Getting no value out of RL+AN for a combined 4 seasons has hurt them a lot. We've moved on from them to dreaming on Begarin. Unfortunately, the cellar has had to dream on rookies and young players because the team has lost too much talent for nothing.
 

benhogan

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Confident players ask out of what they deem to be non ideal situations all the time; presumably it’s not due to a lack of confidence in their own skills but of those around them (both on and off the court). I have no idea as to the mental state of anyone on the team but if fans have concerns about the future of the team and it’s ability to win, I suspect those in the team may as well.

The teams future seemed a lot brighter a few years ago than it does now.
Trading DS will have zero effect on this team's future, if anything it would improve it.

There is nothing Brad can do about the JAYs asking out due to a non-ideal situation. Brad publicly gave them the keys and so far they haven't pulled the car out of the driveway.
 

HomeRunBaker

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They need to trade Schroder because as your post says, he's a terrible fit on the team. Schroder isn't worth building around or bringing in players to "pair" with him. He's a role player and his role has less value on the C's because he's a square peg and the Celtics are round holes.
It’s funny bc I’ve never been a big Schroder guy but I wanted him here at the end of the summer bc his skillset is one that we desperately lack. We have no other PG on the roster capable of playing effective starters min against majority of teams (there are select matchups you can get by with Smart/PP but they are few) and as was discussed above we have nobody else outside of JT/JB who can break down their man and certainly not another PG.

It’s like the best fit out of the options that remained for both the Celtics and the player……yet some feel the fit is awful. My head hurts.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Trading DS will have zero effect on this team's future, if anything it would improve it.
Agreed. So do we forfeit the rest of the game? Tell JT and JB to coast since we aren’t going to try and win? Don’t make me post Herm Edwards clips all day! This season matters to those in the trenches……they aren’t like us who can simply log off or turn the channel. Tons of dollars at stake too.

The only way it makes sense (assuming a limited return) is if done as part of a full blow up over the next 8 months. As much as I’d like to see this it is doubtful Wyc gives Brad the go ahead here as he would have to Ainge with the trust that was built up. Major financial and brand implications if a blowup fails. I don’t feel this is why Brad was hired. Who knows though.
 
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benhogan

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Agreed. So do we forfeit the rest of the game? Tell JT and JB to coast since we aren’t going to try and win? Don’t make me post Herm Edwards clips all day! This season matters to those in the trenches……they aren’t like us who can simply log off or turn the channel. Tons of dollars at stake too.

The only way it makes sense (assuming a limited return) is if done as part of a full blow up over the next 8 months. As much as I’d like to see this it is doubtful Wyc gives Brad the go ahead here as he would have to Ainge with the trust that was built up. Major financial and brand implications if a blowup fails. I don’t feel this is why Brad was hired. Who knows though.
No, we don't forfeit the season. Brad will access where they are by Feb. 10 and make the moves that make the C's better. I still like the work he did last summer. Continue to play hard and try to implement Ime's system. I don't even think it's an effort thing this season

My point is Celtic wins/losses are mostly dictated by Tatum and Brown's play. This is their team.

They aren't firing IME, so the team is somewhat hamstrung with a rookie HC that has been pressing from Day 1.

I like Schroder as a bench scorer BUT the difference between Dennis Schroder vs. JRich/PP/Romeo more minutes isn't going to change Celtics' contention status. We all can agree now they aren't a contender. We've even seen supernova Tatum unable to stop the Q4 collapse that has defined this season.

Not trading Schroder based on What Would J's Do? in two seasons is a complete strawman.
 
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SteveF

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What worries me is how much this team is going to be willing to give up in draft capital to move off of Hernangomez to get under the tax.

I get the idea that the draft doesn't really help this core, but I'm personally at the point where I am looking past this core to what might happen if they can't resign brown/tatum demands trade.
 

lexrageorge

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If the Celtics give up what could be a lottery pick just to get rid of a player, Stevens and Ime should be fired instantly.
 

Cellar-Door

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What worries me is how much this team is going to be willing to give up in draft capital to move off of Hernangomez to get under the tax.

I get the idea that the draft doesn't really help this core, but I'm personally at the point where I am looking past this core to what might happen if they can't resign brown/tatum demands trade.
Can't see that happening. Worst case someone will take Schroder for free (likely you'd get 2nd or 2 minimum honestly).
 

SteveF

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I'm not usually the kind of guy that suggests trades, but here's a plan going forward I'll submit for the rest of you to savage:

Two separate deals. Smart to Utah for Ingles + draft equity. Pritchard (or whoever Dallas wants among Nesmith, Langford, Pritchard) + draft equity to Dallas for Brunson, or expanded into a 3 way with OKC to get off of Hernangomez (and under the tax), especially if Dallas likes a player on OKC instead. Smart is a better fit in Utah coming off the bench, and they need another perimeter defender to be a legit title contender in my opinion (plus there's the Ainge connection). Pritchard fits next to Doncic because he can shoot and Doncic is big enough to address the size issues of Pritchard playing the 2.

Brunson satisfies the need the Celtics have for a point guard and letting Ingles walk creates the cap room to resign him.
 

benhogan

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I'm not usually the kind of guy that suggests trades, but here's a plan going forward I'll submit for the rest of you to savage:

Two separate deals. Smart to Utah for Ingles + draft equity. Pritchard (or whoever Dallas wants among Nesmith, Langford, Pritchard) + draft equity to Dallas for Brunson, or expanded into a 3 way with OKC to get off of Hernangomez (and under the tax), especially if Dallas likes a player on OKC instead. Smart is a better fit in Utah coming off the bench, and they need another perimeter defender to be a legit title contender in my opinion (plus there's the Ainge connection). Pritchard fits next to Doncic because he can shoot and Doncic is big enough to address the size issues of Pritchard playing the 2.

Brunson satisfies the need the Celtics have for a point guard and letting Ingles walk creates the cap room to resign him.
hard no on trading Smart for Jingles

would love to see Brad target Brunson
 

nighthob

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I'm not usually the kind of guy that suggests trades, but here's a plan going forward I'll submit for the rest of you to savage:

Two separate deals. Smart to Utah for Ingles + draft equity. Pritchard (or whoever Dallas wants among Nesmith, Langford, Pritchard) + draft equity to Dallas for Brunson, or expanded into a 3 way with OKC to get off of Hernangomez (and under the tax), especially if Dallas likes a player on OKC instead. Smart is a better fit in Utah coming off the bench, and they need another perimeter defender to be a legit title contender in my opinion (plus there's the Ainge connection). Pritchard fits next to Doncic because he can shoot and Doncic is big enough to address the size issues of Pritchard playing the 2.

Brunson satisfies the need the Celtics have for a point guard and letting Ingles walk creates the cap room to resign him.
You don’t want to re-sign Ingles because he’s already 34. Who the hell wants his ages 35-37 seasons? That essentially amounts to moving Marcus for air and the hope that you can sign someone really good with the MLE after. And hope is not a plan.

There’s a 0% chance that the Mavs swap a legit NBA player for Payton Pritchard (I hate that pick more every time I watch Jaden McDaniels play) or even Romeo Langford or Aaron Nesmith. Or all three for that matter. That’d require a lot of draft capital. Which is a waste if the return’s Jalen Brunson.
 

Swedgin

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I'm not usually the kind of guy that suggests trades, but here's a plan going forward I'll submit for the rest of you to savage:

Two separate deals. Smart to Utah for Ingles + draft equity. Pritchard (or whoever Dallas wants among Nesmith, Langford, Pritchard) + draft equity to Dallas for Brunson, or expanded into a 3 way with OKC to get off of Hernangomez (and under the tax), especially if Dallas likes a player on OKC instead. Smart is a better fit in Utah coming off the bench, and they need another perimeter defender to be a legit title contender in my opinion (plus there's the Ainge connection). Pritchard fits next to Doncic because he can shoot and Doncic is big enough to address the size issues of Pritchard playing the 2.

Brunson satisfies the need the Celtics have for a point guard and letting Ingles walk creates the cap room to resign him.
If Ingles was 7 years younger, he would be a perfect return for Smart. A playmaker who can shoot would be ideal. But he is 34, he's already slowed and a cliff rapidly approaches.

Brunson is a great target, but I think that package is too light. One thing to keep in mind, even though Brunson's coming off a rookie deal, he's unrestricted. Brunson will get paid. He's only a target if ownership is willing to pay the resulting tax bill.
 

Cesar Crespo

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You don’t want to re-sign Ingles because he’s already 34. Who the hell wants his ages 35-37 seasons? That essentially amounts to moving Marcus for air and the hope that you can sign someone really good with the MLE after. And hope is not a plan.

There’s a 0% chance that the Mavs swap a legit NBA player for Payton Pritchard (I hate that pick more every time I watch Jaden McDaniels play) or even Romeo Langford or Aaron Nesmith. Or all three for that matter. That’d require a lot of draft capital. Which is a waste if the return’s Jalen Brunson.
I thought he meant letting Ingles walk so they can re-sign Brunson, but yeah. The Mavs aren't dumping Brunson.
 

SteveF

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
487
Yes. I meant letting Ingles walk to create the cap space to resign Brunson. I apologize for the lack of clarity (and thanks for not assuming I was a moron, CC.)

Brunson is in the last year of his deal. Unless the Mavs intend to pay him $20 million a year (unlikely in their current situation) they need to trade him now or do a sign and trade in the offseason (which may make more sense for them). So the issue is more what other teams are going to offer and whether they think they can resign him (assuming he is traded in season). It's going to take draft equity kicked in, to be sure. But it's not beyond the realm of possibility.

The Celtics would need to get off the Smart (or Horford) contracts to actually have the cap space to resign Brunson since they wouldn't have his Bird rights. (And thinking about it now, I'm not even sure it's actually possible.)