12/27 vs. Houston: Shave that stupid friggin beard!!!

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
30,186
He is playing by the same rules as everyone else. It’s just that others can’t take advantage of them like he does.
It's because the refs don't call the game for anyone else the way they do for Harden, so it may not be a different set of a rules, it's the enforcement of the rules that's different. If Kyrie were officiated like this, or Lebron or any other superstar, OMG, it would be ridiculous and every game would be unwatchable shit.

Jaylen and Kyrie go to the hoop and their defenders are allowed to body the hell out of them. The only difference is, they bounce off of them and keep going. Harden and guys like Eric Gordon scream, and throw the ball at the rim and the refs give them a call. Maybe Brad should stop coaching whatever he's been coaching and start teaching guys how to scream like my 8 year old daughter every time someone makes contact with them. It might have a bigger impact.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
34,809
Does anyone have insight into why the late game is blacked out for me? I’m in North Jersey which is decidedly not Philly territory so I’m at a loss.
 

lars10

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
5,210
66 free throws tonite. Refs made this game damn near unwatchable.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
8,647
Waltham, MA
It's kinda hard to say that when the argument hinges on a third party treating a guy like Kyrie the same. That's not in Kyrie's control. Harden gets a ton of calls that almost nobody else in the league would get outside of maybe LeBron.
I believe if another player played the game like Harden they’d get the calls. Harden hasn mastered the skill of manipulating the refs...living on the edge of making it look like there was contact on a shot, for example. From there, superstar treatment exacerbates the issue - refs get used to blowing the whistle for him so he gets the benefit of the doubt most of the time - but that should be no surprise.

You don’t have to like the way he’s called. I hate it. But he’s doing something differently from other players to get a lot of those calls.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
30,186
Look at the minutes played tonight:

Harden: 39
Capela: 38
Gordon: 34
Tucker: 35
Rivers: 33

Kyrie: 36
Smart: 31
Morris: 29
Tatum: 29
Brown: 24
Hayward: 24

With Al on a restriction, and no Baynes, you'd think some of the other guys would be asked to step up, but nope, same story. If the games don't matter, then I guess they don't matter. I'm just not sure why other team's coaches don't feel the need to rest up for the playoffs like Brad does?
 

ugmo33

Member
SoSH Member
May 6, 2016
55
I know its been said but those calls on Harden's 3 pointers made this game literally unwatchable for me. I had to turn it off. And it was made so much more frustrating by the blatant choice not to show replays and the announcers just washing over it. They always show replays of fouls!!!!!!!!!!
 

Light-Tower-Power

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2013
8,029
At least one of the Tatum/Brown/Hayward trio of wings lays down a complete egg every game. Tonight it was both Tatum and Hayward. If those guys can’t get in sync and play well together consistently than this team is a second round exit at best. Can’t expect Kyrie to carry them to the Finals.
 

lars10

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
5,210
I believe if another player played the game like Harden they’d get the calls. Harden hasn mastered the skill of manipulating the refs...living on the edge of making it look like there was contact on a shot, for example. From there, superstar treatment exacerbates the issue - refs get used to blowing the whistle for him so he gets the benefit of the doubt most of the time - but that should be no surprise.

You don’t have to like the way he’s called. I hate it. But he’s doing something differently from other players to get a lot of those calls.
You can't play defense against him because you barely are allowed to touch him. How do you change the way you play to combat that besides letting him go to the hole every trip? or not contesting any threes?
 

lars10

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
5,210
No it was both, but if I had my choice they can have the board if they miss the put-back.
Sorry I was unclear... I think your point stands, but I also think the way the game was called (especially with Harden) has a big impact.. which is what I thought you were countering.

One of the biggest factors was also that second T on Morris... as well as the offensive foul that got him to go off.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
2,460
At least one of the Tatum/Brown/Hayward trio of wings lays down a complete egg every game. Tonight it was both Tatum and Hayward. If those guys can’t get in sync and play well together consistently than this team is a second round exit at best. Can’t expect Kyrie to carry them to the Finals.
Hayward had 9 points on 5 shots with 6 boards and 5 assists. It wasn’t great but it wasn’t nothing.
 

lars10

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
5,210
If Aaron Baynes (Horford being out for extend stretches, your other backup center being hurt, Gordon Hayward, Tatum and Brown trying to figure out their roles and get back their game/confidence back) being hurt totally derails your team then you've probably got a team still trying to find it's identity.
edit: this team hasn't been in sync all season.. not sure why you think Baynes getting hurt is now the reason they aren't playing well.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
30,186
Hayward had 9 points on 5 shots with 6 boards and 5 assists. It wasn’t great but it wasn’t nothing.
Well, he played 24 minutes. Just based on that, he's got to have at least a few counting stats. I think the problem with Hayward right now offensively is he doesn't know what he is. Sometimes, he gets aggressive and takes the open shot, sometimes he passes it, sometimes he drives hard to the hoop, sometimes he gets there and decides to kick it out instead of going up strong, etc. One play tonight where he went to the hoop, but instead of finishing, he carried himself under the hoop and then tried to fire a pass into Semi, who wasn't ready for it, and it got batted away, etc.

All that said, I thought defensively, he was atrocious tonight. He was wandering away from his man, leading to guys like Gerald Green getting wide open looks for 3.

I'm still willing to wait things out with Gordon That injury was so horrific that I'll continue to give him the benefit of the doubt that he'll get back to his old self. But except for that one 30 point outburst earlier in the season, he hasn't shown anything close to that guy yet. I just don't know how much longer he can be given 25+ minutes a night playing the way he is. He's just not good enough to be taking minutes away from some of the other options on this team, IMO.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
8,647
Waltham, MA
You can't play defense against him because you barely are allowed to touch him. How do you change the way you play to combat that besides letting him go to the hole every trip? or not contesting any threes?
Right. He's made himself extremely difficult to guard.
 
Last edited:

lars10

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
5,210
Right. He's made himself extremely difficult to guard.
He's impossible to guard because you are not allowed to physically touch him without getting a call. There's a difference and you know it.

edit: and in many cases you don't even have to touch him. There should be significant obvious contact before a foul is called on a three. Harden just has to fall down.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
8,647
Waltham, MA
He's impossible to guard because you are not allowed to physically touch him without getting a call. There's a difference and you know it.
I don't know how to explain myself any better than the first post that you replied to. I admit that he gets superstar calls, and he gets superstar calls to an extreme because of his ability to draw fouls and always make it appear that there was contact...so there's a kind of amplification effect going on. I don't know that there's any difference other than the fact that he's really really good at manipulating the system. Another player with his skill level of manipulating the system would get similar treatment.
 

DrewDawg

Dorito Dink
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
34,063
Good teams, and Houston is one, will make you look bad at times, especially in their building. Bounce back against Memphis.
 

DrewDawg

Dorito Dink
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
34,063

D’Antoni reportedly confronted Barnaky after halftime, and—in what I am sure is a total coincidence—calls seemed to shift the other way in the second half. Boston outproduced Houston from the line 14 attempts to five in the first half; in the second half the Rockets got to the line for an eye-opening 30 free throws, including 17 by James Harden alone. Boston was also hit with three technical fouls in the second half, although to the officials’ credit the whistles seemed well-earned, certainly compared to the three Houston techs in the first half.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
31,084
Good teams, and Houston is one, will make you look bad at times, especially in their building. Bounce back against Memphis.
Memphis is the more important game anyways due to Tankathon reasons. This is a big one.
 

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
15,773
where I was last at
Sorry I was unclear... I think your point stands, but I also think the way the game was called (especially with Harden) has a big impact.. which is what I thought you were countering.

One of the biggest factors was also that second T on Morris... as well as the offensive foul that got him to go off.
The refs were flat out bad last night.

I thought the 1st half Ts against the Rockets were ridiculous and in a weird way vindictive (the hanging on the rim call seemed way over the top) And then the calls in the 2nd half seemed one-way against the Celts.

Losing Morris hurt (particularly with no Baynes and limited Al) but as bad as the refs were they weren't the reason the Celts lost last night. It was the inability to control the glass.

I don't want to point fingers but it was the second game in a row (76ers game in the 3rd qtr) where a combo of Hayward-Theis-Smart got smoked and lost control of the game. Last night that combo killed them in the 4th, and the game got away from them.
 

ugmo33

Member
SoSH Member
May 6, 2016
55
But also worth noting that Smart is an incredible defender on James Harden and he looked completely flustered at points in the game until he started hitting ridiculous shots and getting ridiculous calls. What a terrible game it would be if every player started to fall down after every 3 point shot. There's no risk and possibly huge reward