10/20 - ALCS Game 5 - Valdez vs. Sale Redux

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You really think Coras reaction caused the redsox players to back off?

Rodriguez firing up the astros players seems a lot more likely to me.

Or much more likely neither had a meaningful impact and both teams pulling some reversion from a lopsided couple of games.
No I don't. It was a stupid game thread joke near the end of a shitty blowout
 

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Yeah Sale should have been pulled after 5, and turned it over to Houck. I assumed that was the plan….why stick with Sale so long?
I generally hate the now typical pulling the pitcher before the third time through. But the Sox tend to be pretty wed to it, which made today's decision a bit odd. I didn't hate it, because I like to ride good starting pitching performances, but it seems to go directly against their philosophy.
 

Sandman5756

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The Astros are getting a lot of press for their two out runs. … I find their seven three out runs last night to be just as impressive.
 

bosox1025

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This is the story of the 2021 Red Sox. Whether it’s a comeback win or looking awful for a series and then unstoppable in the next… not betting against them on Friday (or Saturday).
 

genoasalami

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Amazing to me that this offense basically put up nothing the last 18 innings of the series.
How many times have you seen a team absolutely mash the ball for a few games and then suddenly they can't buy a hit? Happens a lot. That's when pitching and defense need to take over. We failed at both.
 

DeadlySplitter

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^ I'm personally tired of still looking for signs of cheating. The Astros didn't make Whitlock's FB leak over the middle.

If the Astros are actually still cheating, then it's MLB's disgrace to bear.
 

nazz45

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^ I'm personally tired of still looking for signs of cheating. The Astros didn't make Whitlock's FB leak over the middle.

If the Astros are actually still cheating, then it's MLB's disgrace to bear.
So ridiculous. Altuve was swinging first pitch all night hunting for a fastball. Make a better pitch than a fastball right down the middle.

Also, whistles at a baseball game may be a common occurrence. I’d at least make the sound a coo-coo-ca-chaw or something distinct.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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I generally hate the now typical pulling the pitcher before the third time through. But the Sox tend to be pretty wed to it, which made today's decision a bit odd. I didn't hate it, because I like to ride good starting pitching performances, but it seems to go directly against their philosophy.
yeah, I agree, but if anyone should be limited, it should be Sale, coming off injury and some lousy appearances. Take the 5 innings and don’t get greedy, esp with a rested pen. OTOH, a mediocre pen can make a lot of managerial decisions look poor.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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yeah, I agree, but if anyone should be limited, it should be Sale, coming off injury and some lousy appearances. Take the 5 innings and don’t get greedy, esp with a rested pen. OTOH, a mediocre pen can make a lot of managerial decisions look poor.
For sure. So can walking the leadoff hitter.
 

cantor44

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Valdez just eliminated any pitching advantage the Sox may have had going into Friday. If their starter doesn't have it they have the horses to mix and match their way to a win.
That's in part because their manager isn't an ideological hostage of the no 3rd time through the order. His team was ahead, his starter was dealing, and he was going to ride him as long as he could (without over-stressing his arm with too many pitches), in the hopes of resting his pen. ScottyNo's link yesterday gave evidence that is certainly true: pitchers are less effective third time through. But less effective doesn't necessarily mean ineffective. In certain circumstances, its in a team's best to let an effective starter go deep into the game.
 

soxhop411

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That's in part because their manager isn't an ideological hostage of the no 3rd time through the order. His team was ahead, his starter was dealing, and he was going to ride him as long as he could (without over-stressing his arm with too many pitches), in the hopes of resting his pen. ScottyNo's link yesterday gave evidence that is certainly true: pitchers are less effective third time through. But less effective doesn't necessarily mean ineffective. In certain circumstances, its in a team's best to let an effective starter go deep into the game.
How does that explain the offense falling off a Cliff the last two games
 

scottyno

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For sure. So can walking the leadoff hitter.
he gave up 2 soft infield grounders after walking the leadoff hitter. The problem was the Sox failed miserably to convert the first one.

I probably would have brought in Houck, but they didn't lose the game because Sale walked the leadoff guy.
 

normstalls

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That said, the Schwarbs error was brutal and super costly. And the offense was non existent, so I don’t think it matters too much.
 

scottyno

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Except factually, they kind of did.
It should have been at worst a man on 3rd and 2 out with Alvarez coming up, at best they may have been out of the inning on the 2 infield grounders. That makes it much easier to walk Alvarez, or if Sale still faces him and gives up a hit the inning ends at 2-0 after Brasier comes in and strikes out Correa.

Instead because of a bunch of largely soft contact and bad defense after the walk the inning ended 6-0 and the game was effectively over.