1/8 - Playoffs?!

8slim

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Yes they do. And we can point to several enormous, horrible calls/non-calls that directly impacted the game in a huge way that went against the Pats. Open invitation to anyone here: If you can find similar calls that hurt the Bills, we can talk about those too.
FWIW, seemed like the cut block call against them was bad.
 

patinorange

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I'd be more upset about the refs if we didn't give up 2 KR tds and throw 3 picks and the playoff spot if they didn't lose to the legitimate worst team in the league and blow the Raiders (and Bengals!) game. They deserved a little better today, but they ended up where they deserved in the grand scheme of the year.
Yup. They found ways to beat themselves all year. Not your typical Bill team.
 

8slim

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To Baseball Jones place, he brought up three errant calls with notable impact no one is disputing. That's at least an argument based in evidence. You are likely right, I am sure there were bad non calls and calls against Buffalo (I think there was a very iffy no call on a face mask for instance) but it's not BJs job to present that as he isn't disputing that. You or Roderick or whoever can if you want to posit it wasn't a difference maker in my view.

To be clear, I don't think the refs cost the Pats this game but I do think the net of call impact went against them. Like two KR TDs mattered more even with the missed hold, as did the INTs among other items
My point is that if one is going to say 3 calls cost us 18 points and the game, it’s not a thorough analysis unless you also look at how many bad/non calls impacted points the other way.

Maybe they offset? Maybe the Bills still would have won?

Honestly, I just find the ref excuses exhausting. It’s literally every week here. Every loss is because of the refs, according to some folks.
 

Dotrat

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Yes they do. And we can point to several enormous, horrible calls/non-calls that directly impacted the game in a huge way that went against the Pats. Open invitation to anyone here: If you can find similar calls that hurt the Bills, we can talk about those too.
You sound like Raiders fans did from January 19, 2002 until around 10 minutes ago. The last 20 years have given us more than any NFL franchise is likely to have for a millenium—but by all means keep complaining about admittedly shitty calls in a game that, had the Pats won, would in all probability led to them being walloped next week.
 

Dotrat

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I’d love to see Slater become the new ST coach—though I obviously have no idea if he’d even be interested.
 

BaseballJones

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You sound like Raiders fans did from January 19, 2002 until around 10 minutes ago. The last 20 years have given us more than any NFL franchise is likely to have for a millenium—but by all means keep complaining about admittedly shitty calls in a game that, had the Pats won, would in all probability led to them being walloped next week.
I'm not sure I get your point, but honestly, I'm not sure I care.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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I’d love to see Slater become the new ST coach—though I obviously have no idea if he’d even be interested.
Slater isn't super interested in being a coach, given the kind of hours they have to put in. That could change, of course.

He does love the Pats' organization and always wants to be connected to it, so we'll see how it all shakes out.
 

astrozombie

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View: https://twitter.com/PhilAPerry/status/1612202697209577473

Matthew Slater says he’s “shellshocked” by the performance of the kicking game today. Doesn’t say whether or not that was the final game of his career.
I love Slater, but for all the praise bb has gotten over the years for special teams and constantly giving roster spots to ST specialists and really emphasizing that phase of the game... that unit let the team down today and has honestly been pretty shaky the last few seasons and especially this one. That doesn't fall on slater alone and I know schooler was out but... man, it was painful to watch, especially by a guy, bb, who seems to treat st as 1b to the 1a of defense.
 

Dotrat

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I'm not sure I get your point, but honestly, I'm not sure I care.
Be happy and grateful that you root for this team--which has accomplished more in the last two decades than any other franchise ever likely will. Why let let a few horrid calls that, at best, might have had the ripple effect of moving the team down a few draft spots, get in the way? They didn't lose because of the refs, they lost because they weren't as good as the Bills today.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Be happy and grateful that you root for this team--which has accomplished more in the last two decades than any other franchise ever likely will. Why let let a few horrid calls that, at best, might have had the ripple effect of moving the team down a few draft spots, get in the way? They didn't lose because of the refs, they lost because they weren't as good as the Bills today.
I understand that you probably don't really see me post very often, and of course you have no reason to read my posts. But I'm one of the most "count your blessings for what this team has given you over the last 20 years" guys on this entire board. I'm old enough to have been here for all the awful years. I know we've had it very, VERY good.

Doesn't mean I can't be frustrated with the calls today.
 

54thMA

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Since they will win by fewer than 14, that’s the narrative but in fairness even without the two TDs that is two possessions where the Bills could have still scored. Can’t really assume zero.
BINGO

In all likelyhood, if they don't score on the kickoff, they march down the field and probably score regardless.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Not to mention two extra drives by the Bills offense likely means at least one fewer drive for the Patriots.
Not counting the last possession of the game for Buffalo, the Bills scored:

14 points on two kickoff returns and 21 points on 9 drives. Those 9 drives averaged 2.3 points per drive. I mean, yeah, it's totally possible the Bills score TDs on those drives anyway. But the Pats' defense actually did a pretty good job holding them in check today, and averaging 2.3 points per possession compared with 7.0 points per KO return TD is a huge difference.
 

54thMA

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Buffalo is good and fun and hating on McDermott is the loseriest of loser shit. They're good and they own us and good for them for rubbing our faces in it.
Yeah, good for Buffalo for owning the Patriots the past three years; rubbing it in their faces after being owned by the Patriots for the previous nineteen is................

Something.

Pent up anger/frustration would be my guess.
 

Dotrat

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I understand that you probably don't really see me post very often, and of course you have no reason to read my posts. But I'm one of the most "count your blessings for what this team has given you over the last 20 years" guys on this entire board. I'm old enough to have been here for all the awful years. I know we've had it very, VERY good.

Doesn't mean I can't be frustrated with the calls today.
I read the site's NFL forums every day, read your posts, and applaud your optimism, even when I disagree with you. And forgive me if I've misread you, but today's ref kvetching seemed to imply that this was a game for high stakes--and it may well have been for you. To me, a victory today, while certainly nice in and of itself, would have only served to prolong the inevitable. It would have 'entitled' them to the chance for a resounding beating next week.

So we are probably in fundamental disagreement about who the 2022 Pats were. I saw a mediocre team that, on both offense and ST, was consistently sloppy, unprepared, and unimaginative (in terms of scheme and play-calling), one that made the 2009 squad look like a poised assemblage of talented, 'never say die' players (in other words, like the 2003 Pats). A playoff berth would not have changed that view. I thought they mostly played their asses off today--it was a gutty, gutsy effort.

Still, I'm not at all upset that they didn't make the playoffs. They have so many needs to fill, and I'd prefer the higher draft slot than the (IMO) highly unlikely chance of catching lightning in a bottle and making a run toward the AFCCG. Because I can't see how doing so would make them appreciably better than the team we saw all season.
 

BaseballJones

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I read the site's NFL forums every day, read your posts, and applaud your optimism, even when I disagree with you. And forgive me if I've misread you, but today's ref kvetching seemed to imply that this was a game for high stakes--and it may well have been for you. To me, a victory today, while certainly nice in and of itself, would have only served to prolong the inevitable. It would have 'entitled' them to the chance for a resounding beating next week.

So we are probably in fundamental disagreement about who the 2022 Pats were. I saw a mediocre team that, on both offense and ST, was consistently sloppy, unprepared, and unimaginative (in terms of scheme and play-calling), one that made the 2009 squad look like a poised assemblage of talented, 'never say die' players (in other words, like the 2003 Pats). A playoff berth would not have changed that view. I thought they mostly played their asses off today--it was a gutty, gutsy effort.

Still, I'm not at all upset that they didn't make the playoffs. They have so many needs to fill, and I'd prefer the higher draft slot than the (IMO) highly unlikely chance of catching lightning in a bottle and making a run toward the AFCCG. Because I can't see how doing so would make them appreciably better than the team we saw all season.
Yeah obviously they're a mediocre team. But I want them to win all the time and always advance as far as they can go. I'm not "upset" either, but of course I wanted them to win, and it bothered me that those calls had a huge impact in the game.

But it was really the abysmal kickoff unit that killed them.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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So we are probably in fundamental disagreement about who the 2022 Pats were.
Looking now at the whole body of work it really all seems pretty clear.

7-2 against non playoff teams. 1-7 against playoff teams. (If the Packers win.)*

If you squint you can imagine that if this break or call went the other way, we win more. But you can always do that in the NFL. And it took a third string QB to get that one win against the Dolphins.

This team is good enough to have a good chance against bad teams and not good enough to beat good teams.

*There is a chicken and egg thing here I realize. Still as a blunt instrument it kind of sums things up.
 

lars10

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Still crazy to me that this game would have been completely meaningless for a playoff-bound Pats team if they had just held on during that long Raiders drive (and of course the Meyers lateral). 7 point lead, 4th and 10 for Vegas at the Raiders' own 19 with under 2 minutes left, and then the rest.
Or if the toe that was out of bounds wasn’t called a TD that game?
 

BaseballJones

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The thing is, the Pats had a bunch of winnable games this year, but poorly timed mistakes, bad calls, bad luck, etc., all came into play. Now here's the thing. In the past, the Pats were good enough to overcome those things. I mean, they won SB 38 after Brady made a terrible pick in the end zone. Brady threw TWO picks in SB 49, and a pick-six in SB 51. He threw a pick in SB 53 and the offense made a bunch of mistakes in that game. Brady, in the AFCCG in KC, threw a pick in the end zone that cost them 7 points.

But in all those cases, they came back to win because they were GREAT. This team is mediocre, and doesn't have the ability to overcome bad mistakes, awful ref calls, and bad fumble luck. Hopefully they'll get better and have that ability next year but they certainly didn't have it this year.
 

Helmet Head

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