07/31 vs. Bucks aka Starting The Short Road to #18

BaseballJones

goalpost mover
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
8,764
I do think it was unintentional. But..... players get called for fouls all the time when they’re not trying to foul.
 

fairlee76

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,178
jp
I think he did move when Gianis was already in the air though..

edit: def doesn't seem set to me.. but Gianis shouldn't be in this game still so this shouldn't be a question.
He certainly did move after Giannis was in the air. Was a blocking foul.

Love the fight tonight though. They win with a mediocre night from JT.
 

scottyno

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
5,855
It's nice that Wanamaker had a great game, and hopefully he can get on a run like he had earlier this year, but unfortunately, his playoff potential is probably capped at whatever minutes Kemba ends up not playing. Other than getting nothing at all from the frontcourt bench it's hard to come out of this game not feeling good about the team. I thought 4 of the starters looked at least good or better, and Tatum won't shoot that bad again all year.
 

128

lurker
May 4, 2019
916
Seems like we're starting right where we left off when the season was suspended - "I know we lost, but we looked really good!"
It sucks that Tatum was a no-show and that officiating played such a big role in the final minutes, but the Bucks have the world's best player and are the NBA's best team. I'm plenty critical of the C's when they play down to the level of inferior opponents and/or lose to teams they should beat. But there was much more good than bad last nite, especially considering that Boston trailed 17-2 early.
 

bigq

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,911
It's nice that Wanamaker had a great game, and hopefully he can get on a run like he had earlier this year, but unfortunately, his playoff potential is probably capped at whatever minutes Kemba ends up not playing.
We should be prepared for Wanamaker to get a lot of minutes. Kemba being on a minutes restriction in his first game in more than four months is concerning. I have no doubt that Stevens has a view toward preserving him for the playoffs but Walker’s durability appears to be a significant limiting factor to this team’s ceiling. Ironically prior to coming to Boston, Walker was among the league’s most durable players. I like Wanamaker a lot and hope he continues to play well. Frankly there is no one I would rather see at the charity stripe in a close game. However I hope he never takes another pull up three with 15+ seconds on the shot clock and I would always prefer to see Kemba running the offense.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
23,742
Here
Seems like we're starting right where we left off when the season was suspended - "I know we lost, but we looked really good!"
The Celtics were kicking ass when the season was suspended, so I'm confused?

As for the calls, the first one was an absolute joke. "Not a hostile act" is some of the dumbest bullshit I've ever heard. That is a foul every single time and to review it and make up some bullshit is completely unacceptable. That is just plain crooked. That's not hyperbole or overreaction, that is literally fixing the rules to keep a superstar in.

The second call was, in fact, a block. Both of Smart's feet were in the circle when Giannis left his feet.

Smart flat out said the refs and league wanted to keep Giannis in the game. Glad he said it, but obviously a big fine is coming.
 

shawnrbu

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
27,490
The Land of Fist Pumps
5-5 in the 10 following the All Star break before the pause. The close losses come to mind:

Lost by 2 at the Lakers: Tatum is awesome! The refs screwed us!

Lost by 1 in OT against the Rockets: Looked really good in the 1st Half. The refs again.

Lost by 1 to the Thunder: Totally would have won if Kemba wasn’t awful tonight. Imagine how good this team will be when everyone is healthy!
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
23,166
I disagree that it was a charge. But I think the only thing that’s reviewable there is in/out of the circle, just as you couldn’t call the obvious foul on the “hostile act” review on the other end.
Are you sure? What I saw was Marcus shift his feet to make sure he was outside the restricted area..but Gianis had already left his feet. Anyone able to get screen shot?
Yes, I believe you are both misinterpreting the rule, unless it has been updated more recently and I have missed it.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/10/28/6419373/nba-block-charge-rule-official

People think it is all about the feet—it is not. The reason that was a charge is the torso and body were in place when Giannis took off. Smart slid his foot out of restricted area after his body had moved, which is what you both are alluding too. But I don’t believe that is a block under the rules since his body was there sooner.

I realize most people and announcers get this wrong most of the time. But that is, I believe, still the rule. Does anyone know of a change?

I also, as Mauf alludes to, do not understand how you can 1) stop the first play and not call anything (I believe the stoppage itself had to be a foul, as VG noted, otherwise there is no basis to stop the play. If it is an inadvertent whistle, then it would have to be a jump ball I believe) which is compounded by 2) you can’t overturn the block/charge on review anyway—-especially if you get it wrong.
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
10,003
Santa Monica, CA
The NBA replay rule allows for a de novo review of the call, right? Like, they just watch the video and call whatever they want, there's no requirement that it be conclusive or egregious or anything?

I hate all replay in all sports, but allowing a 52/48 type call to be overturned by random review in a huge spot after they've already blown a dozen other calls like last night...that sucks bigtime.
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
6,646
Yes, I believe you are both misinterpreting the rule, unless it has been updated more recently and I have missed it.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/10/28/6419373/nba-block-charge-rule-official

People think it is all about the feet—it is not. The reason that was a charge is the torso and body were in place when Giannis took off. Smart slid his foot out of restricted area after his body had moved, which is what you both are alluding too. But I don’t believe that is a block under the rules since his body was there sooner.

I realize most people and announcers get this wrong most of the time. But that is, I believe, still the rule. Does anyone know of a change?

I also, as Mauf alludes to, do not understand how you can 1) stop the first play and not call anything (I believe the stoppage itself had to be a foul, as VG noted, otherwise there is no basis to stop the play. If it is an inadvertent whistle, then it would have to be a jump ball I believe) which is compounded by 2) you can’t overturn the block/charge on review anyway—-especially if you get it wrong.
That’s interesting.. I always thought you had to be set. As in not shift your feet.

2 things though.. in order for smart to get outside the restricted area he had to move towards the player in the air already.. so imo he’s submarining the player in the air. It’s super close but he has to move forward to get out of the restricted area. I also think he shifted a bit to his right.

If your feet are moving out of the restricted area but your torso stays in.. is that ok or is it just based on feet?

Edit: with that said Gianis uses his off arm a ton when he goes to the hoop.. and he’s regularly out of control which I was sort of shocked about. IF you can stay in front of him he goes through the body every time.

The Call on their at the end I thought was also pretty bad.. given the amount of contact the other way and that Theis had his arms straight up I’m not sure how you call that (other than it’s GA)
 

HowBoutDemSox

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2009
5,214
Last two minute report on the Smart call, call it a correct call against Smart:
After communicating with the Replay Center, the ruling on the floor of an offensive foul on Antetokounmpo (MIL) is overturned to a shooting foul on Smart (BOS). Smart was not established in a legal guarding position at the time of Antetokounmpo's gather on the driving shot attempt.
I guess the Theis play was before the final two minutes, since it’s not mentioned that I can see.
 

Sprowl

mikey lowell of the sandbox
Dope
Jun 27, 2006
32,392
Haiku
Was gonna say, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen Bledsoe play well.

Full Kemba will make a massive difference. With Tatum off they had trouble creating any mismatches and the sets broke down.
We should be prepared for Wanamaker to get a lot of minutes. Kemba being on a minutes restriction in his first game in more than four months is concerning. I have no doubt that Stevens has a view toward preserving him for the playoffs but Walker’s durability appears to be a significant limiting factor to this team’s ceiling. Ironically prior to coming to Boston, Walker was among the league’s most durable players. I like Wanamaker a lot and hope he continues to play well. Frankly there is no one I would rather see at the charity stripe in a close game. However I hope he never takes another pull up three with 15+ seconds on the shot clock and I would always prefer to see Kemba running the offense.
Why would we think we will see Full Kemba again this season? If his knee has not repaired after 4 months of rest and recuperation, including a Synvisc shot, he is looking like damaged goods.
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
23,166
That’s interesting.. I always thought you had to be set. As in not shift your feet.

2 things though.. in order for smart to get outside the restricted area he had to move towards the player in the air already.. so imo he’s submarining the player in the air. It’s super close but he has to move forward to get out of the restricted area. I also think he shifted a bit to his right.

If your feet are moving out of the restricted area but your torso stays in.. is that ok or is it just based on feet?

Edit: with that said Gianis uses his off arm a ton when he goes to the hoop.. and he’s regularly out of control which I was sort of shocked about. IF you can stay in front of him he goes through the body every time.

The Call on their at the end I thought was also pretty bad.. given the amount of contact the other way and that Theis had his arms straight up I’m not sure how you call that (other than it’s GA)
I agree it was close, and I think his body was set.

I still don’t understand the Theis thing—there is not, so far as I am aware, a mechanism to stop play without a dead ball or a foul call other than an “inadvertent whistle” ruling. I agree with Van Gundy that refs simply didn’t want to foul GA out and there is no more legitimacy to it than that. Which is why I think neither VG nor Jaylen will be punished.

In the post-game they said they reviewed for a hostile act. But I have understood that review to require a stoppage in play event
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
37,696
Why would we think we will see Full Kemba again this season? If his knee has not repaired after 4 months of rest and recuperation, including a Synvisc shot, he is looking like damaged goods.
Because it’s better than thinking about the alternative.
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
6,646
I agree it was close, and I think his body was set.

I still don’t understand the Theis thing—there is not, so far as I am aware, a mechanism to stop play without a dead ball or a foul call other than an “inadvertent whistle” ruling. I agree with Van Gundy that refs simply didn’t want to foul GA out and there is no more legitimacy to it than that. Which is why I think neither VG nor Jaylen will be punished.

In the post-game they said they reviewed for a hostile act. But I have understood that review to require a stoppage in play event
I assume they can stop play for a player injury? At the time Theis looked hurt.