The Second War on Theis: Celtics trade for Daniel Theis

TripleOT

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Since TL was still on his rookie deal this season, and will be paid short month (for a center of his caliber) the rest of Theis’ deal, trading for him was a smart move. Theis filling in well for an injured TL has already validated that trade.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Fair points...The reality is Theis is much more than an "8th man" on the Celtics. The odds that DT would be needed were greater with the minutes TL/Al were being asked to play. Heck, we're too close to comfort with seeing Kornet getting minutes for my liking.

Now that Brad has sorted out their ballhandling depth with Marcus/White for the next few seasons he should be shopping for a defensive-minded/mobile BIG this summer. I believe he can get that guy on the cheap. Brad has been buying defense/selling offense before the paint dried in Danny's office. IMO he's arbitraging an NBA inefficiency and expect him to continue with that theme. Here is an initial/generic list of potential targets
The core moving forward is already intact and under contract. Which roles could we be looking to replace/upgrade? Horford due to age (even though I’ve been saying since his last stint here that his game projected to age well), Grant due to contract he could get elsewhere similar to Big Baby, Posey, etc, and Pritchard who we can upgrade and/or not have to pay if someone values him. That’s pretty much it…..those 3 guys then you have Begarin coming up and any other young fliers that you can develop into a future role. That’s the team next year imo.
 

benhogan

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The core moving forward is already intact and under contract. Which roles could we be looking to replace/upgrade? Horford due to age (even though I’ve been saying since his last stint here that his game projected to age well), Grant due to contract he could get elsewhere similar to Big Baby, Posey, etc, and Pritchard who we can upgrade and/or not have to pay if someone values him. That’s pretty much it…..those 3 guys then you have Begarin coming up and any other young fliers that you can develop into a future role. That’s the team next year imo.
Brad can sit tight on PP/Grant. Maybe get Grant on the dotted line on the cheap? Those two will never force the minutes or score enough to get a ton of interest, waiting until RFA could be an option if they balk at team-friendly deals.

Al Horford, the ageless one, is really the only question mark. Horford is on the books for $26.5M but only $14.5M is gtd unless the C's make the Finals ($19.5M) or Win it ($26.5M). Brad has until Jan 10, 2023 to decide on the Horford guarantee if they don't win it all.

So I don't see a whole bunch happening this summer, except shopping for a cheap 5 as a hedge on Horford age/trade or TL injury insurance. Kornet is a #15/break glass in emergency, but I'd prefer a Center between him and Theis
 

HomeRunBaker

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Brad can sit tight on PP/Grant. Maybe get Grant on the dotted line on the cheap? Those two will never force the minutes or score enough to get a ton of interest, waiting until RFA could be an option if they balk at team-friendly deals.

Al Horford, the ageless one, is really the only question mark. Horford is on the books for $26.5M but only $14.5M is gtd unless the C's make the Finals ($19.5M) or Win it ($26.5M). Brad has until Jan 10, 2023 to decide on the Horford guarantee if they don't win it all.

So I don't see a whole bunch happening this summer, except shopping for a cheap 5 as a hedge on Horford age/trade or TL injury insurance. Kornet is a #15/break glass in emergency, but I'd prefer a Center between him and Theis
Grant has solidified himself as a rotation 4 who can knock down 3’s. He’s a 4/$40 from someone but his production can be replaced on the cheap if we have to imo. I don’t think Pritchard generates a ton of interest but I think we can upgrade the position without having to lock into a bad deal.
 

JakeRae

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Grant has solidified himself as a rotation 4 who can knock down 3’s. He’s a 4/$40 from someone but his production can be replaced on the cheap if we have to imo. I don’t think Pritchard generates a ton of interest but I think we can upgrade the position without having to lock into a bad deal.
I think we agree on this, and I’d note that Grant is the type of player that is almost certainly going to be a good contract as an RFA unless there’s another team that’s in love with him, which is unlikely. Everything Brad did this year emphasizes that he sees real value in acquiring good but not great players with good contracts. Horford, White, Richardson, and Theis fall into this category, as does keeping Smart. Timelord too, but that was a bit different since Timelord has an impact player ceiling. The bottom line is that there’s no reason to think Brad is doing this accidentally. He’s always believed in versatility and seems focused on surrounding Tatum (and Brown) with good players all the way down the rotation instead of another star and scrubs. That could change with the right third star opportunity but I think it’s more likely we keep building the same way we did this year and should anticipate paying reasonable rates to keep our young players in Green.
 

lovegtm

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I think we agree on this, and I’d note that Grant is the type of player that is almost certainly going to be a good contract as an RFA unless there’s another team that’s in love with him, which is unlikely. Everything Brad did this year emphasizes that he sees real value in acquiring good but not great players with good contracts. Horford, White, Richardson, and Theis fall into this category, as does keeping Smart. Timelord too, but that was a bit different since Timelord has an impact player ceiling. The bottom line is that there’s no reason to think Brad is doing this accidentally. He’s always believed in versatility and seems focused on surrounding Tatum (and Brown) with good players all the way down the rotation instead of another star and scrubs. That could change with the right third star opportunity but I think it’s more likely we keep building the same way we did this year and should anticipate paying reasonable rates to keep our young players in Green.
And even if you find a 3rd star, Grant at 4/40 is exactly the type of contract you want/need to have on a top-heavy team. That's below MLE money when the cap bumps.
 

HomeRunBaker

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And even if you find a 3rd star, Grant at 4/40 is exactly the type of contract you want/need to have on a top-heavy team. That's below MLE money when the cap bumps.
It’s tough with Theis there as well and he provides more positional value. The ideal guy would be a ready-to-contribute college veteran on a rookie deal like Big Baby and Powe on the cheap.

We may be past the need for a “3rd star” when our 1/2 are so dominant with Smart and TL right there. It’s now more of less finding a younger Horford type and a cheaper Granite while maybe adding another Derrick White level player for the second unit.
 

benhogan

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It’s tough with Theis there as well and he provides more positional value. The ideal guy would be a ready-to-contribute college veteran on a rookie deal like Big Baby and Powe on the cheap.

We may be past the need for a “3rd star” when our 1/2 are so dominant with Smart and TL right there. It’s now more of less finding a younger Horford type and a cheaper Granite while maybe adding another Derrick White level player for the second unit.
If Brad did extend Grant he'd still be on his rookie deal next season. PBS would have a full year to figure out things.

Pay that man hizzz money (or wait until RFA) either way Brad has hand...

Agreed on drafting Big Baby/Powe in the 2nd round or uncovering that type from the G-League, Europe or another roster.

At the end of the day, as far as CAP, it's Horford's salary that will lessen Wyc's dividend checks
 

Eddie Jurak

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The book on this deal is officially closed, as Theis was shipped out with additional salary ballast for Brogdon. Without Theis, there would have been no Brogdon deal unless the Celtics wanted to ship out one of their playoff top 6 - they had no one else making $8.6 million, not even Grant and Pritchard combined, and so would have fallen short.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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The book on this deal is officially closed, as Theis was shipped out with additional salary ballast for Brogdon. Without Theis, there would have been no Brogdon deal unless the Celtics wanted to ship out one of their playoff top 6 - they had no one else making $8.6 million, not even Grant and Pritchard combined, and so would have fallen short.
Stevens loading up on mid-range contracts has been huge.
 

lovegtm

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The book on this deal is officially closed, as Theis was shipped out with additional salary ballast for Brogdon. Without Theis, there would have been no Brogdon deal unless the Celtics wanted to ship out one of their playoff top 6 - they had no one else making $8.6 million, not even Grant and Pritchard combined, and so would have fallen short.
They also got some mileage out of him in the Nets series, didn't pay the 2022 tax, and would have had Theis as ballast all this year and next.

Lots of nailed moves around the margins to get Brogdon, including all the non-guaranteed years for minimum guys.

Now, instead of having to use White to match, they have him both as a good player and a positive contract for further upgrades if a pick-heavy deal becomes available for a player making $15-25M.
 

Euclis20

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I think I always liked Theis more than most. He was a capable 3rd center and 2nd big off the bench, allowing Boston to do a lot of the same things they did with their starters. It was nice having him play 15-20 minutes in the regular season, and when Rob went down it was good when he didn't [totally] go to shit. Still, he didn't play a second in the last 3 games against Miami, nor did he get off the bench in the last 4 games against GS. Another center is needed for depth (even if Boston goes away from the 2 big starting lineup), and likely he won't be quite as useful as Theis in that role. Oh well.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think I always liked Theis more than most. He was a capable 3rd center and 2nd big off the bench, allowing Boston to do a lot of the same things they did with their starters. It was nice having him play 15-20 minutes in the regular season, and when Rob went down it was good when he didn't [totally] go to shit. Still, he didn't play a second in the last 3 games against Miami, nor did he get off the bench in the last 4 games against GS. Another center is needed for depth (even if Boston goes away from the 2 big starting lineup), and likely he won't be quite as useful as Theis in that role. Oh well.
If we do end up with Bryant he will be an upgrade on Theis if he’s fully recovered from his ACL. He’s a real good offensive player, which is what separates him from Theis, who can rebound similarly.
 

CaptainLaddie

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If we do end up with Bryant he will be an upgrade on Theis if he’s fully recovered from his ACL. He’s a real good offensive player, which is what separates him from Theis, who can rebound similarly.
Yeah, Bryant was really on an upward trajectory before getting hurt. His first 10 games of 2020-21 were 14.3 / 6.1 a game -- on .648 shooting and he had led the league in 2P% shooting in 18-19 with a .685. Basically -- the guy scores near the hoop (and has a career .350% from 3, which isn't bad at all for a guy who's 6-10 and is a center). I'd love Bryant.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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If we do end up with Bryant he will be an upgrade on Theis if he’s fully recovered from his ACL. He’s a real good offensive player, which is what separates him from Theis, who can rebound similarly.
Really trying not to get my hopes up here because Bryant seems like a really great get.
 

Jimbodandy

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Stevens loading up on mid-range contracts has been huge.
Yep. They had LOTS of flexibility this offseason in what they could and couldn't do.


They also got some mileage out of him in the Nets series, didn't pay the 2022 tax, and would have had Theis as ballast all this year and next.

Lots of nailed moves around the margins to get Brogdon, including all the non-guaranteed years for minimum guys.

Now, instead of having to use White to match, they have him both as a good player and a positive contract for further upgrades if a pick-heavy deal becomes available for a player making $15-25M.
Yes, this is really a nice ending to the Theis story in Boston. He helped with the defensive culture here in the first go-around. Then he helped us duck under the tax. Then he helped provide TL injury insurance and some replacement value for him. Then he helped us get Brogdon without losing someone who is going to play. Kudos also to PBS and the whole FO for having the accounting solid and multiple puzzle pieces in addition to DT.


Of course, we don't know how the saga of Malcolm Brogdon will play out here, but the story of how we got him here includes PBS, the Celtics FO, ownership, and Daniel Theis. Best of luck to DT in his travels.
 

Van Everyman

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Yep. They had LOTS of flexibility this offseason in what they could and couldn't do.




Yes, this is really a nice ending to the Theis story in Boston. He helped with the defensive culture here in the first go-around. Then he helped us duck under the tax. Then he helped provide TL injury insurance and some replacement value for him. Then he helped us get Brogdon without losing someone who is going to play. Kudos also to PBS and the whole FO for having the accounting solid and multiple puzzle pieces in addition to DT.


Of course, we don't know how the saga of Malcolm Brogdon will play out here, but the story of how we got him here includes PBS, the Celtics FO, ownership, and Daniel Theis. Best of luck to DT in his travels.
Great post and I completely agree. Theis actually played a pretty critical role in the 2020-21 season and the drop off was real when he was moved. I’m not sure he fully grokked Ime’s system when he returned (in fairness it took the rest of the team about 3 months) but still provided some valuable minutes when Rob went down as they prepared for the postseason. I wish him best of luck as well.
 

lovegtm

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Great post and I completely agree. Theis actually played a pretty critical role in the 2020-21 season and the drop off was real when he was moved. I’m not sure he fully grokked Ime’s system when he returned (in fairness it took the rest of the team about 3 months) but still provided some valuable minutes when Rob went down as they prepared for the postseason. I wish him best of luck as well.
It looked like he had lost something physically this year; the guy in 2019-2021 was a better player. Best of luck to him, although I think he's firmly on the back side of what turned out to be a solid NBA career.