Celtics vs. Bucks, Round 2 Discussion
- Thread starter tims4wins
- Start date
Very top heavy Milwaukee team without Middleton but far from a walkover. Giannis is Giannis and Jrue is great on both ends. But not having Middleton as the consistent deep threat is huge.
Injuries are the story of this post season. Just hoping that JB isn't the celtics contribution to this story.
This is going to be a close one. Obviously the elephant in the room is Middleton, but the Bucks have other solid players with well defined roles not to mention the best player in the NBA. I think the Celtics are better - especially without Middleton, but whoever wins this series is going to the Finals IMO.
I don’t think the Bucks are very deep. Giannis will get his. You need to stop Holiday from getting easy buckets on penetration. Their bench of Portis / Connaughton / Allen / Ibaka / Mathews is not scary. The Celtics exterior defense can handle this team — it’ll just be a matter of KD-ing Giannis as best they can and not letting their shooters get easy looks.
Celtics in 5.
Celtics in 5.
Has anyone chimed in on the effort level of the Celtics yet? Don’t want to get too excited after a sweep in case a few plays went the Nets way over a 48-minute game.
The fear of a Giannis series is always that he's going to have 15-20 FT games. The Celtics had that with Durant, and made it through. If anything, it will be nice to get a series against a star who isn't a threat to rise up and rain fire anywhere inside 30 feet.
Between Grant/Theis/Rob/Al the Celtics have more than enough fouls to use on Giannis, and without Middleton, it's hard for the Bucks to really punish shrinking the floor against Giannis. On the other end, the Bucks have been low-key attackable by the Cs on offense for awhile now, and we tend to put up points on them.
Celtics in 6, which I know implies closing it out in Milwaukee.
Between Grant/Theis/Rob/Al the Celtics have more than enough fouls to use on Giannis, and without Middleton, it's hard for the Bucks to really punish shrinking the floor against Giannis. On the other end, the Bucks have been low-key attackable by the Cs on offense for awhile now, and we tend to put up points on them.
Celtics in 6, which I know implies closing it out in Milwaukee.
In all likelihood the Celtics get Milwaukee next. They need to be better than they were against Brooklyn to win that series.
Reasons for optimism:
Reasons for optimism:
- Tatum showed he could step up and lead the team in the playoffs. Brown, Horford, Smart all did their part, too.
- Rob is healthy, and they need him to play their best defense. But watch the lob he scored on from game 4 - he doesn't look to have any physical limitations whatsoever.
- They did not always play their best 4th quarter basketball against the Nets, but other than a blip after Tatum fouled out in game 4, they closed out the games down the stretch - a perceived weakness going into the series.
- Good work by each of their three bench players, thugh Grant was the most consistent of them.
- Jaylen's hamstring. Probably not a major cause for concern, as the sweep in Brooklyn gives Brown extra time to recover/rehab. But not a great thing to see happen in the playoffs.
- Rob's timing was way off, leading to Ime playing him many fewer minutes (14) than planned (24) in game 4. This isn't unexpected, but it is something that needs to be fixed for the Celtics to be at their best. He has played only 2 games in the past month and doesn't have that much regular practice time with the team either.
- It would have been nice to just easily put the Nets away at least once.
I guess we were all hoping for a blowout win but outside of game 1 I didn't sweat any games against the Nets. Particularly games 3 and 4 were far more comfortable than the final scores indicated as the Cs nearly led wire to wire and pushed the lead to double digits for long stretches. The Nets are full of experienced pros so they weren't going to fold, but they were very overmatched.
Brown should have time to rest and hydrate. Rob wasn't great last night but as you say that's to be expected.
As you note the bench was great -- I think that was the biggest question coming into the playoffs but everyone has stepped up and performed well in their roles. I think we win in 5.
I think that closing out all of the close games trumps not blowing out one of the games. As noted in the game thread, the Celts were 11-18 in the regular season in games decided by < X points (I forget the number), then went 4-0 this series. That has to help build their confidence. And doing it last night without JT, even moreso.
I don’t agree with this this at all. The Bucks are not a 70-win juggernaut, and they’ll be missing their second best player for probably at least 3-4 games. The Nets role players played probably as well as they could have hoped for, but the Celtics clamped down on two of the best offensive players in the league—two Hall of Famers in their prime—and swept them. While getting basically nothing from Robert Williams, which is almost certain to improve.
If the Celtics play at the level they just did and Williams regains form, the question becomes who can stop them. You can make a real argument that the Celtics starting lineup contains four of the ten best defenders in the entire league. When’s the last time we saw that?
Last edited:
After Pritchard hit his long step back to go ahead by 2 with 7:49 left in the 4th quarter of game 2, the Nets were never again either tied or ahead at any point in the series’ remaining 4th quarter minutes. Their next possession was the last time they had the ball with a chance to take the lead in a 4th quarter.
There were no blowouts, but since that point in G2 there was never a sense that the Celtics were not in total control of the series.
Giannis is a different animal. Very happy to have homecourt especially against a team that will really need its role players to excel with Middleton out.
There were no blowouts, but since that point in G2 there was never a sense that the Celtics were not in total control of the series.
Giannis is a different animal. Very happy to have homecourt especially against a team that will really need its role players to excel with Middleton out.
The Bucks with Middleton are better than the Nets, but without him they may not be.
The Celtics have a bunch of guys who go can attempt to guard Giannis, but I expect it to mostly be Horford and Grant, with Rob and Tatum playing off the ball and trying to eliminate large portions of the floor. Smart against Jrue should be a key matchup, as limiting Jrue would really limit the Bucks options outside of Giannis.
Without Middleton the Bucks don’t have a guy who matches up well against Tatum other than Giannis, and given then offensive load he will need to carry, I would imagine they don't also want him chasing Tatum around on defense. I expect Tatum to have a couple of big games when they find ways to get guys like Grayson Allen or Bobby Portis switched into him in space or coming off picks againat drop coverage.
I will say Celtics in 5.
The Celtics have a bunch of guys who go can attempt to guard Giannis, but I expect it to mostly be Horford and Grant, with Rob and Tatum playing off the ball and trying to eliminate large portions of the floor. Smart against Jrue should be a key matchup, as limiting Jrue would really limit the Bucks options outside of Giannis.
Without Middleton the Bucks don’t have a guy who matches up well against Tatum other than Giannis, and given then offensive load he will need to carry, I would imagine they don't also want him chasing Tatum around on defense. I expect Tatum to have a couple of big games when they find ways to get guys like Grayson Allen or Bobby Portis switched into him in space or coming off picks againat drop coverage.
I will say Celtics in 5.
I expect it to be a tough series because Giannis is terrifying, but that Bucks team really needs Giannis to be dominant on both ends every single night. They're extremely shallow - Jrue is great, but without Middleton they're really short on ballhandlers, and there's way too much Wes Matthews happening for a team with championship aspirations. They also have guys who can be exploited on defense - Lopez and Grayson Allen can and should be attacked to the point they might be unplayable in a playoff series.
As others have said, the Celtics have a lot of options to throw at Giannis and Jrue. Definitely reason to think the Celtics should win this series, unless Middleton plays the majority of it.
As others have said, the Celtics have a lot of options to throw at Giannis and Jrue. Definitely reason to think the Celtics should win this series, unless Middleton plays the majority of it.
This is not a hugely courageous take, but: if Giannis and Tatum are something close to a push, the Celtics should win this in 5.
For the Bucks to win, esp with little-to-no Middleton, they need Giannis to be head-and-shoulders the best player on the court. Like what we've been seeing in the Bulls series, where he's routinely putting up 30 something on .500+ shooting with near double-digit assists and can seemingly get a basket whenever he wants it. That, plus a late-series Middleton return can get it done for the Bucks.
Edit: or, as said directly above by previous poster.
For the Bucks to win, esp with little-to-no Middleton, they need Giannis to be head-and-shoulders the best player on the court. Like what we've been seeing in the Bulls series, where he's routinely putting up 30 something on .500+ shooting with near double-digit assists and can seemingly get a basket whenever he wants it. That, plus a late-series Middleton return can get it done for the Bucks.
Edit: or, as said directly above by previous poster.
It will be interesting to see how Coach Bud plays this. I presume he's going to continue with his drop coverage, which the Cs have exploited in the past (I mean the G-League Cs put 121 on MIL a few weeks ago).
As for defense, the Cs should be able to guard MIL in the half-court. The regular Cs haven't played MIL since they turned their season around but even in the first half of the season, the Cs held MIL to 113 in OT and 103 until they gave up 117 on Xmas Day.
I think if the Cs take care of the ball and limit Giannis's points in transition, they will control this series as well. Without Middleton, I think BOS has more ways to score than MIL.
As for defense, the Cs should be able to guard MIL in the half-court. The regular Cs haven't played MIL since they turned their season around but even in the first half of the season, the Cs held MIL to 113 in OT and 103 until they gave up 117 on Xmas Day.
I think if the Cs take care of the ball and limit Giannis's points in transition, they will control this series as well. Without Middleton, I think BOS has more ways to score than MIL.
Are we sure he's not, though? NBC Sports Boston seemed to hint that he wasn't being strict about the holiday:
I wonder about Jaylen's health. Seen too many mediocre months from him that start with nagging injuries.
If he is basically sound, and Middleton really misses most of the series (or comes back quickly and isn't very effective), this thread's optimism is believable.
But if not ... the bucks seem to be far more mentally sound than the Nets -- the fact that they recovered from the game 2 loss (where both Middleton and Portis went out) with 2 drubbings tells me something (even though Chicago is mediocre)
If he is basically sound, and Middleton really misses most of the series (or comes back quickly and isn't very effective), this thread's optimism is believable.
But if not ... the bucks seem to be far more mentally sound than the Nets -- the fact that they recovered from the game 2 loss (where both Middleton and Portis went out) with 2 drubbings tells me something (even though Chicago is mediocre)
Last edited:
He was talking about Jaylen, not Kyrie, unless I'm missing something in that article?
My hope is that Jaylen's hammy issue is cramping from lack of food/water this month. Ramadan will be over after Game 1 of this series. It could be all that this is.
Without Middleton, I'm building a wall in front of Giannis at the 3 point line, and daring him to try to put his shoulder down and go through it. If you hold Giannis to less than 25 points a game, you win basically every game. Maybe a couple of their shooters get hot and steal a couple games, but in a 7 game series, it's all about stopping Giannis, and while I know the NBA won't let it happen, there is a very good chance that White/Smart/Grant frustrate him enough on the offensive end that he starts getting called for at least a couple of charges, which may force him into being a bit tentative.
On the other side of the ball, I have very little concern about this Celtics team scoring on anyone right now. They just shot as poorly as they have in months, and put up 115+ a night.
On the other side of the ball, I have very little concern about this Celtics team scoring on anyone right now. They just shot as poorly as they have in months, and put up 115+ a night.
So casual fan here - who’s left that’s scary scary: Milwaukee, Miami, Golden State…. Are Memphis or Phoenix legit?
Just my 2 cents...
A big part of the Cs round 1 success/strategy was the disfunction they caused when they paid significant attention to Durant and KI. Forcing Durant into quick decisions that he's not often had to his whole career. Banking on KI not consistently distributing to punish the double teams and trying to go mano-o-mano. The result was 2 games where Durant/KI fought the defense and still lost, 1 game where Durant decided to be a facilitator and still lost, and 1 game where Durant put it all together (with a bit of protection from the ref's whistle), and still lost because KI didn't have a significant/complementary impact.
The difference between MIL and BRK beyond the obvious differences in talent (and availability) is that MIL has had all season to play as a team, and do play as a team. I don't think the Celtics can pay the same kind of attention to Giannis as they did to Durant and not get burned by the team play (finding cutters off the double, etc.). That is not to say they can't win by using a similar defensive approach as they did during the late season rampage through the league, but it's not going to be as simple as applying the same round 1 Nets formula against Giannis.
A big part of the Cs round 1 success/strategy was the disfunction they caused when they paid significant attention to Durant and KI. Forcing Durant into quick decisions that he's not often had to his whole career. Banking on KI not consistently distributing to punish the double teams and trying to go mano-o-mano. The result was 2 games where Durant/KI fought the defense and still lost, 1 game where Durant decided to be a facilitator and still lost, and 1 game where Durant put it all together (with a bit of protection from the ref's whistle), and still lost because KI didn't have a significant/complementary impact.
The difference between MIL and BRK beyond the obvious differences in talent (and availability) is that MIL has had all season to play as a team, and do play as a team. I don't think the Celtics can pay the same kind of attention to Giannis as they did to Durant and not get burned by the team play (finding cutters off the double, etc.). That is not to say they can't win by using a similar defensive approach as they did during the late season rampage through the league, but it's not going to be as simple as applying the same round 1 Nets formula against Giannis.
From what I've seen, Giannis seems perfectly content letting Grayson Allen shoot open 3s all day. Allen will have to guard someone, but he's just one example of more-willing distribution than KI or KD were used to or willing to.
Last edited:
Right, but the article said "Celtics star Jaylen Brown has observed Ramadan in the past as well". If he was observing Ramadan now, wouldn't the writer just say that rather than framing it as something he did in the past?
Phoenix was the favorite in the west until Booker got hurt. They are legit if he is healthy. I think Memphis is still a year away.
It was mentioned during Game 4 (or maybe Game 3) that Jaylen was observing it as well as Kyrie. The difference is that you don’t have Jaylen making a show of it.
That's an interesting way to frame it, because it sort of mirrors what Ime has been demanding from the offense: quicker decisions. That's where Tatum has really shined as the year went on. He thinks the game much faster and is more decisive in his decision making.
I think part of that is he is prepared and has a plan based on what he reads. You can tell, for example, when he goes into the lane that as soon as help takes a step toward him that the pass fired Grant in his corner office was pre-ordained - that is, that Tatum was baiting that defensive reaction because the open corner three was his desired outcome. Of course, he also processes the game quickly enough that if the help doesn't come, he can usually still find a good shot for himself or someone else.
Yeah, if this piece is legit (and there's no reason to think it's not *if* TL regains form), they're the 04 Pistons with an MVP caliber offensive player.
I think you might be reading too much into it. The quote from Jaylen at the end of the article was from April 14th of this year (a week before the article was published). It''s been reported everywhere that Jaylen was observing Ramadan this season too, this author just wrote it poorly:
https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2022/04/celtics-jaylen-brown-on-ramadan-fasting-during-nba-playoffs-its-something-thats-saved-my-life.html
Milwaukee's roster around Giannis and Jrue, with Middleton out, is pretty meh.
The Bucks did not go through anyone nearly as good as this year's Celtics on their way barely out of the East last year, and this year's Bucks are worse with Middleton out/hobbled.
It’s great going into a series knowing who to develop an irrational dislike for already…the Bucks roster seems pretty anodyne in that sense, with the exception of Allen and maybe Lopez.
There are fewer players to hate in the next series, presuming MIL, and I especially like Holiday. I will enjoy hating Allen.
It's hard to overestimate how remarkable the Celtics have been in round one and in the second half. I think this might be the best defensive team in the NBA in many years. The Bucks are better than (and have their shit together more than) the Nets. But it's not a tremendous difference and I think they will also need Giannis to dominate in any game they win. I don't think he can do it against this defense.
Celtics in 4.
It's hard to overestimate how remarkable the Celtics have been in round one and in the second half. I think this might be the best defensive team in the NBA in many years. The Bucks are better than (and have their shit together more than) the Nets. But it's not a tremendous difference and I think they will also need Giannis to dominate in any game they win. I don't think he can do it against this defense.
Celtics in 4.
Can PP get playing time against the Bucks? They seem really big, but I’m not sure if they have many who can hunt him.
But I’m no Buck expert
But I’m no Buck expert
With respect to the bolded, while the Giannis/Tatum comparisons will dominate the headlines but the really interesting one to me is to compare how Marcus and Holiday will play since they are similar players and I suspect that Holiday will be extra motivated because of Smart's DPOY.
I'm guessing Holiday will have to guard Tatum or Brown so he'll have a lot more responsibility than Marcus is my guess but like you, I like watching him (when he's not playing the Cs).
