The Game Ball Thread: Wk. 7 vs NYJ

RoDaddy

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In addition to everything else, the screens looked great today and could be a real weapon moving forward.

Barmore continues to impress. Mac, Barmore and Stephenson probably make this the best draft in a long time

The Pats needed this but so did the city after the tough Red Sox elimination
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Plenty of guys deserve gameballs today, but the Patriots that stood out for me was Josh McDaniels. From jump, he could do no wrong. The run calls worked, the screens worked, the trick plays worked, he pushed every button. Mac's accuracy (Maccuracy?) seemed a little off today for much of the game and it didn't even matter because dudes were so open or they had the playcall to overcome a miss on the next play.
You know it's a good win when SN starts making puns
 

Al Zarilla

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Was Mac’s accuracy off or did we see some progression here. Seemed like he was more willing to take some shots and chances down the field instead of the check down. That may be growth.
I watched all of the Bucs game until it got out of hand and I was thinking maybe late in the first half that Mac had a better game than Tom was having. Tom overthrew a few receivers including one in the end zone when he got really mad and was yelling into his hands. You could say well, the Jets, but you can say the same thing, well, the Bears.
 

Marciano490

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I watched all of the Bucs game until it got out of hand and I was thinking maybe late in the first half that Mac had a better game than Tom was having. Tom overthrew a few receivers including one in the end zone when he got really mad and was yelling into his hands. You could say well, the Jets, but you can say the same thing, well, the Bears.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dm0NQgDQWY


I’m excited too, but....
 

johnmd20

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I watched all of the Bucs game until it got out of hand and I was thinking maybe late in the first half that Mac had a better game than Tom was having. Tom overthrew a few receivers including one in the end zone when he got really mad and was yelling into his hands. You could say well, the Jets, but you can say the same thing, well, the Bears.
This is such a weird post.

What compelled you to compare Mac's game against a D-III college team versus the Bucs destruction of the Bears where TB basically stopped trying in the 3rd quarter? There is no comparison here.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I wouldn’t give him too much credit. The Jets are really that bad. Same old play calling as usual, a lot of the same thing he’s been getting crap for, it’s just this week they played a Swiss cheese defense and they finally had a competent oline.



He’s really not. I really enjoyed the offense today but I found myself still questioning a lot of the calls. It took him 6 weeks to figure out how to use Jonnu Smith. And before I hear “well the oline played better so he didn’t have to block” they started the game getting the ball to Smith. Sorry, I’m really just unimpressed with his game planning. It was cool to see the cute plays work but most were unnecessary.
The Jets defense has been put in tough spots all season because of the offense. Until yesterday, the defense had actually played very well. They gave up more points in the first half yesterday than they had in any game this season.

The teams squared off a handful of weeks ago. If the playstyle and results from this game doesnt scream "coaching adjustments" to you, I'm not sure what game will.

We know this offense isnt a powerhouse. But they just put up 54 points - the most points in a game so far this season. A gameplan can be a good one without 30 yard strikes downfield, and this game proved it.
 

BaseballJones

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I wouldn’t give him too much credit. The Jets are really that bad. Same old play calling as usual, a lot of the same thing he’s been getting crap for, it’s just this week they played a Swiss cheese defense and they finally had a competent oline.
The Jets absolutely are not "really that bad". No NFL team should beat another NFL team like the Pats beat the Jets yesterday. Going into yesterday's game...

- The Jets' D allowed opponents an average of 24.2 points a game. The Pats scored *54*.
- The Jets' D allowed opponents an average of 372.8 yards a game. The Pats gained *551*.
- The Jets' D allowed opponents an average of 23 first downs a game. The Pats had *32*.

And in some ways, the Jets' offense actually helped out a little more than normal. The Jets' offense through five games had averaged 267 yards and 15.6 first downs. Yesterday they gained 299 and had 18 first downs.

Pats' possessions yesterday:
- 4 plays, 65 yds, TD
- 7 plays, 53 yds, TD
- 8 plays, 41 yds, FG
- 12 plays, 73 yds, TD
- 11 plays, 72 yds, TD
- 9 plays, 43 yds, FG
- 4 plays, 32 yds, punt
- 5 plays, 43 yds, FG
- 4 plays, 53 yds, TD
- 9 plays, 78 yds, TD

That's what Alabama does to Louisiana Tech, not what one NFL team does to another. The Jets are bad, no doubt about that. But NO NFL team is *that* bad, not by a long shot. Hell, just two games prior, the Jets beat Tennessee 27-24.

There's no way to downplay how good the Patriots were yesterday. Would they have been able to do THAT against the Rams? No. But they shouldn't have been able to do THAT against ANY team in the NFL. But they did. It was a fantastic performance, period. No qualifiers.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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The Jets defense has been put in tough spots all season because of the offense. Until yesterday, the defense had actually played very well. They gave up more points in the first half yesterday than they had in any game this season.

The teams squared off a handful of weeks ago. If the playstyle and results from this game doesnt scream "coaching adjustments" to you, I'm not sure what game will.

We know this offense isnt a powerhouse. But they just put up 54 points - the most points in a game so far this season. A gameplan can be a good one without 30 yard strikes downfield, and this game proved it.
The Jets were without their best defensive player. That wasn’t the same defense.

Cool that he was able to make “adjustments” after 2 weeks and a ton of video, other than the handful of plays we saw designed to get Jonnu the ball I didn’t see anything different. His in game decision making and ability to adjust on the fly are sub par. We’ve seen that all year when running up the middle doesn’t work.

Again, I loved the offensive output yesterday. Everything they ran worked. The plays he drew up were finally effective. I’m not quite ready to give McD a pass.
 

DJnVa

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Was Mac’s accuracy off or did we see some progression here. Seemed like he was more willing to take some shots and chances down the field instead of the check down. That may be growth.


It really seems like he adds a little bit to his game each week.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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The Jets were without their best defensive player. That wasn’t the same defense.
Mosley was out but just got back Marcus Maye. Sure, Mosley is like their defensive QB but missing one (however important) shouldn't let the other team drop a 50-burger.

I thought most of the blame was on the Jets' coaching staff & the lack of preparation. They just came off the bye and looked completely out of sorts.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Mosely isn't worth 30 points and 179 yards. I mean, if he is, he's the league's MVP by a mile.
Obviously not, but he would have made a difference. A couple of key stops could have changed things. Not drastically, but it would have been a different plan. Their defense was poorly prepped and completely gassed by the end of that game. No NFL defense should give up a scoring drive to Brian Hoyer. I don’t think you can watch yesterdays game and say that Jets D was anywhere near what they have been the rest of the season. Derrick Henry would have run for 300 yds against them yesterday.
 

johnmd20

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Obviously not, but he would have made a difference. A couple of key stops could have changed things. Their defense was poorly prepped and completely gassed by the end of that game. No NFL defense should give up a scoring drive to Brian Hoyer.
This is really a take. The Jets gave up 54 points. 31 of those points in the first half when the defense wasn't presumably gassed.

No player for the Jets defense would have made a sliver of difference in this game.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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The Jets were without their best defensive player. That wasn’t the same defense.

Cool that he was able to make “adjustments” after 2 weeks and a ton of video, other than the handful of plays we saw designed to get Jonnu the ball I didn’t see anything different. His in game decision making and ability to adjust on the fly are sub par. We’ve seen that all year when running up the middle doesn’t work.

Again, I loved the offensive output yesterday. Everything they ran worked. The plays he drew up were finally effective. I’m not quite ready to give McD a pass.
Yes, he had a few weeks of prep. As did the Jets coaches, who also had a bye. So...he should be penalized for doing a good job for some reason?

You're complaining you didnt see anything different. I guess you would have preferred they do a bunch of things different and NOT be successful? I dont understand your point.

If anything, the point you should take from this is that, when the team doesnt turnover the ballamd commit stupid fucking penalties, their offense is actually pretty good. Which is what weve all thought throughout the season.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Yes, he had a few weeks of prep. As did the Jets coaches, who also had a bye. So...he should be penalized for doing a good job for some reason?

You're complaining you didnt see anything different. I guess you would have preferred they do a bunch of things different and NOT be successful? I dont understand your point.

If anything, the point you should take from this is that, when the team doesnt turnover the ballamd commit stupid fucking penalties, their offense is actually pretty good. Which is what weve all thought throughout the season.
I’m not complaining about anything. I’m continuing to believe that McDaniels isn’t a very good OC despite the performance yesterday. I’ve been on his case for a few years now. I more wanted to slow down the perception that everything is awesome because we hung 50 on a team that played its worst game of the season. I had a blast watching yesterdays game.
 
1) Since no-one has mentioned it yet and he took a lot of stick here (including from me) for being too conservative, BB for going for it on 4th and 1. Woohoo.

2) Pretty much everyone else, particularly on offense, particularly the line. I actually thought (as others have mentioned) that Mac didn't have his best game but whereas in the first few weeks I thought he was playing better than his numbers suggested, this week he had the numbers anyway (it felt like an awful lot of YAC on screen passes to me) so I'm happy to give him one. Very encouraged that he now has 4 100+ rated games in his first 7.

3) The playcalling. Forget running for zero yards on 1st and 2nd down. The more times passes are thrown back and forth behind the line, the happier I am, even when they didn't work out that well in general in this occasion. That's the kind of excitement I want to see! Now if they can just trade for Kelce and add his catch and toss routine to the mix things will really start looking up...
 

ragnarok725

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In addition to everything else, the screens looked great today and could be a real weapon moving forward.
It really is a shame that James White went down so early in this season. I think he might have had a truly monster year in this offense. He would have been such a huge asset to Mac.
 

BusRaker

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Not taking anything away from a fine defensive performance (everyone is going to miss a tackle or two a game, we call him Mills), but it seemed as though every one of our 9 people not QB or ball carrier on offensive physically dominated their defensive counterparts. If it was a wrestling match we'd have gone home 9-0. Whether it was the Jets sucking or us beating the shit out of them (or most likely a combination) remains to be seen, but it was nice to watch.
 

Eddie Jurak

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3) The playcalling. Forget running for zero yards on 1st and 2nd down. The more times passes are thrown back and forth behind the line, the happier I am, even when they didn't work out that well in general in this occasion. That's the kind of excitement I want to see! Now if they can just trade for Kelce and add his catch and toss routine to the mix things will really start looking up...
The on play I didn't like was the Blden bacwards pass to Mac. Bolden's throw was off line and I thought that it was close to being a forward pass. Mac caught it and threw incomplete, and no penality was called, so I guess it was still backwards but a penalty there might ahve been a drive killer. In general, they have done a good job working those plays in, though. Just can't throw a forward pass there!
 

tims4wins

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I wouldn’t give him too much credit. The Jets are really that bad. Same old play calling as usual, a lot of the same thing he’s been getting crap for, it’s just this week they played a Swiss cheese defense and they finally had a competent oline.



He’s really not. I really enjoyed the offense today but I found myself still questioning a lot of the calls. It took him 6 weeks to figure out how to use Jonnu Smith. And before I hear “well the oline played better so he didn’t have to block” they started the game getting the ball to Smith. Sorry, I’m really just unimpressed with his game planning. It was cool to see the cute plays work but most were unnecessary.
I think as fans we equate play calling with game planning and it’s really not quite the same thing. I think McDaniels is a masterful game planner. I think he gets opposing teams into bad situations. He calls plays early with tweaks later that expose flaws. He puts the offense in a great position to succeed nearly every week.

That said, I feel like he is only “adequate “ as a play caller. He gets too cute more often than I’d like to see, and occasionally falls in love with concepts that aren’t working. So I’m with you in that department.

But I think when you add it all up it still makes him an upper echelon OC.
 

8slim

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I think as fans we equate play calling with game planning and it’s really not quite the same thing. I think McDaniels is a masterful game planner. I think he gets opposing teams into bad situations. He calls plays early with tweaks later that expose flaws. He puts the offense in a great position to succeed nearly every week.

That said, I feel like he is only “adequate “ as a play caller. He gets too cute more often than I’d like to see, and occasionally falls in love with concepts that aren’t working. So I’m with you in that department.

But I think when you add it all up it still makes him an upper echelon OC.
I suspect that at, any given time, 90% of NFL fans are complaining about their OC. It's the nature of the beast. McDaniels is absolutely an upper echelon OC.
 

Shelterdog

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I suspect that at, any given time, 90% of NFL fans are complaining about their OC. It's the nature of the beast. McDaniels is absolutely an upper echelon OC.
The quickest way to identify football idiots is to find people who criticize an offensive coordinator's playcalling-- particularly after a bad game or two. Most of us can't reliably identify what the defensive coverage is , whether it's an odd or even front, etc. so saying McDaniels, wow, too many screens (and the next week McDaniels, wow, not enough screens) is proof of someone who doesn't know what they 're talking about.

There are of course better and worse offensive coodinators but our ability as fans to identify them -- or to identify as bad one who has been an offensive coordinator for more than a decade and coached a wide variety of offeneses to outstanding seasons and is now getting solid offensive play out of rookie quaterback without great surroundng talent--is pretty questionable.
 

DJnVa

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He’s really not. I really enjoyed the offense today but I found myself still questioning a lot of the calls. It took him 6 weeks to figure out how to use Jonnu Smith. And before I hear “well the oline played better so he didn’t have to block” they started the game getting the ball to Smith.
Yes--could this be perhaps because the OL played well last week, and carried that over in practice, so they thought they could game plan differently?
 

Over Guapo Grande

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Yes--could this be perhaps because the OL played well last week, and carried that over in practice, so they thought they could game plan differently?
As my grandfather used to say- "My mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts."

A draw on 3 and 5 that get stuffed gets blamed on the OC for a bad play call. But- did an OL miss a block? Did the RB choose the wrong gap? Was it just a"tip your cap to the defense" play? Hindsight is always 50/50(c) , so we feel like instead of running those draws, they would have been automagic 9-yard slant completions. Those 9 yard slants could have also become pick 6's... and we'd have half the forum saying "why did you throw it there?". But did the OL miss a block (see a theme?), did the QB make the wrong read? Do you just need to tip your cap to the D for a nice play?
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Point taken guys. When you’re in the minority I guess that makes you less intelligent. I have been sour on McD for a while and I don’t really think that makes me a “football idiot” but ok. I didnt see any of his defenders come out of the woodwork a couple weeks ago when he was getting trashed in the other threads. Good win! We’re on to LA
 

BusRaker

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A lot of the game strategy comes down to the matchup of one OC versus the other team's DC. So just like any player versus player matchup in sports, sometimes an OC will have a good matchup or simply lucky guessing on how the other DC will be preparing. Sometimes they will shit the bed. If you surveyed the other 31 team's DC's I think you will find that Josh is good .
 

joe dokes

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A draw on 3 and 5 that get stuffed gets blamed on the OC for a bad play call. But- did an OL miss a block? Did the RB choose the wrong gap? Was it just a"tip your cap to the defense" play? Hindsight is always 50/50(c) , so we feel like instead of running those draws, they would have been automagic 9-yard slant completions. Those 9 yard slants could have also become pick 6's... and we'd have half the forum saying "why did you throw it there?". But did the OL miss a block (see a theme?), did the QB make the wrong read? Do you just need to tip your cap to the D for a nice play?
Aside from being the right analysis, the bolded is either a wonderful typo or a wonderful new word.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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Aside from being the right analysis, the bolded is either a wonderful typo or a wonderful new word.
I use it all the time in my line of work when the customer wants things to instantly work with no effort from their end. I, at one point back in the early aughts, bought a Harry Potter wand for the client-side PM at an oil refinery who kept asking why customizations that were never asked for weren't implemented.
 

kartvelo

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The on play I didn't like was the Blden bacwards pass to Mac. Bolden's throw was off line and I thought that it was close to being a forward pass. Mac caught it and threw incomplete, and no penality was called, so I guess it was still backwards but a penalty there might ahve been a drive killer. In general, they have done a good job working those plays in, though. Just can't throw a forward pass there!
Mac also had to dodge a defender who was in his lap when the ball arrived from Bolden.
 

Jimbodandy

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I use it all the time in my line of work when the customer wants things to instantly work with no effort from their end. I, at one point back in the early aughts, bought a Harry Potter wand for the client-side PM at an oil refinery who kept asking why customizations that were never asked for weren't implemented.
Mockery is a dangerous thing, but it can be the perfect answer.

I once told a GM of Retail that we could implement his (ridiculous) suggestion, as long as he was willing to bring in David Copperfield as a project manager. It was the longest 5 seconds of my life before he burst out laughing.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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Mockery is a dangerous thing, but it can be the perfect answer.

I once told a GM of Retail that we could implement his (ridiculous) suggestion, as long as he was willing to bring in David Copperfield as a project manager. It was the longest 5 seconds of my life before he burst out laughing.
I had the kind of relationship with her that it was taken in the right way. She kept it at her desk that she brought out upon subsequent visits. We would go professionally bared teeth and claws out.... until the whistle sounded at the plant. Then we'd go to Jalapeno's to get some 2 for 1 margaritas... make fun of her users... and start again the next day.
 

lexrageorge

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Point taken guys. When you’re in the minority I guess that makes you less intelligent. I have been sour on McD for a while and I don’t really think that makes me a “football idiot” but ok. I didnt see any of his defenders come out of the woodwork a couple weeks ago when he was getting trashed in the other threads. Good win! We’re on to LA
I do wonder what the fine folks on the Sons of Len Dawson board are saying right now about Eric Bieniemy.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Point taken guys. When you’re in the minority I guess that makes you less intelligent. I have been sour on McD for a while and I don’t really think that makes me a “football idiot” but ok. I didnt see any of his defenders come out of the woodwork a couple weeks ago when he was getting trashed in the other threads. Good win! We’re on to LA
Who's calling you dumb?

McDaniels absolutely sticks to his script. Sometimes it bites him (shitty performance against Rams in SB), other times it makes him look like a savant (Falcons SB).

He studies the shit out of film and has his ideas about what works. I think that lends itself to a lot of first half points, and makes him look worse when he has to pivot mid game. Nobody disagrees.

But I think you're placing too much importance on the ability to pivot during a game. Players make mistakes, you cant change your gameplan for that. Defenses throw wrinkles, what do you do when they throw a wrinkle one out of every 4 or 5 plays? Do you throw out the baby with the bath water?

It's easy to say a coach isnt great at making adjustments, but theres a ton more variables that go into that than a coach that can create a gameplan before the first snap. I'm happy to have a guy that puts in a ton of work before Sunday, because a lot of guessing and luck is involved when changing a gameplan during a game.
 

tims4wins

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Who's calling you dumb?

McDaniels absolutely sticks to his script. Sometimes it bites him (shitty performance against Rams in SB), other times it makes him look like a savant (Falcons SB).

He studies the shit out of film and has his ideas about what works. I think that lends itself to a lot of first half points, and makes him look worse when he has to pivot mid game. Nobody disagrees.

But I think you're placing too much importance on the ability to pivot during a game. Players make mistakes, you cant change your gameplan for that. Defenses throw wrinkles, what do you do when they throw a wrinkle one out of every 4 or 5 plays? Do you throw out the baby with the bath water?

It's easy to say a coach isnt great at making adjustments, but theres a ton more variables that go into that than a coach that can create a gameplan before the first snap. I'm happy to have a guy that puts in a ton of work before Sunday, because a lot of guessing and luck is involved when changing a gameplan during a game.
He did famously pivot in the Rams SB, they scored 10 points in the last two drives, but it was pretty late by then
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Who's calling you dumb?

McDaniels absolutely sticks to his script. Sometimes it bites him (shitty performance against Rams in SB), other times it makes him look like a savant (Falcons SB).

He studies the shit out of film and has his ideas about what works. I think that lends itself to a lot of first half points, and makes him look worse when he has to pivot mid game. Nobody disagrees.

But I think you're placing too much importance on the ability to pivot during a game. Players make mistakes, you cant change your gameplan for that. Defenses throw wrinkles, what do you do when they throw a wrinkle one out of every 4 or 5 plays? Do you throw out the baby with the bath water?

It's easy to say a coach isnt great at making adjustments, but theres a ton more variables that go into that than a coach that can create a gameplan before the first snap. I'm happy to have a guy that puts in a ton of work before Sunday, because a lot of guessing and luck is involved when changing a gameplan during a game.
Appreciate the thoughtful response. Thank you.
 

rodderick

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He did famously pivot in the Rams SB, they scored 10 points in the last two drives, but it was pretty late by then
The Pats put up 410 yards of offense that game, it really wasn't as bad a performance as the 13-3 score would indicate. They just had terrible field position all day and never made the big play as the drives got going.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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The Pats put up 410 yards of offense that game, it really wasn't as bad a performance as the 13-3 score would indicate. They just had terrible field position all day and never made the big play as the drives got going.
It was an off cuff example. You wieners know what my point was.
 

richgedman'sghost

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Shame they couldn't find a way to get Slater a reception.
Is there a way to find out if Slater even gets snaps as a receiver anymore? I know he plays special teams but can't see if he even gets any offensive snaps?
I have this dream where before week 18 Slater announces his retirement. Then with the Pats up big; BB puts him in for 1 play and he catches TD from Jones.