The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

luckiestman

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We just saw Wilson throw 3 awful INTs out of 4 total.

Only 1 was awful, imo. The 3rd one. 1st great play Pats DB, 2nd on the receiver, 3rd awful, 4 bad but 8 cut to sideline instead of in. However, there was another bad throw that Zach was lucky it wasn’t picked (it got tipped at the line).
 

Over Guapo Grande

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That was ... pretty much verbatim:. "We did some things well, there are some things we need to improve upon. We'll take a look at the tape and go from there" BB stuff.

(Edit- Cam had the same types of responses last year- so that isn't a negative going that way)
 

BrazilianSoxFan

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Well, one good indicator of Mac's success is that no one, I mean no one, is talking about how releasing Cam was a mistake.

Jones' poise & performance have only matched my greediest of expectations, right down to his press conferences:

View: https://youtu.be/wnibtG_Pygc
Well, there were some saying that Cam would have won the first game. I think they're insane, but the talk was there. And even with Cam we probably would have won today.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Only 1 was awful, imo. The 3rd one. 1st great play Pats DB, 2nd on the receiver, 3rd awful, 4 bad but 8 cut to sideline instead of in. However, there was another bad throw that Zach was lucky it wasn’t picked (it got tipped at the line).
Agree to disagree. He made awful decisions and threw into coverage he shouldn’t have. The Pats D made some great plays but he missed obvious defenders he shouldn’t have thrown at. He’s got the arm but he made some really bad Decisions.
 

Euclis20

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Only 1 was awful, imo. The 3rd one. 1st great play Pats DB, 2nd on the receiver, 3rd awful, 4 bad but 8 cut to sideline instead of in. However, there was another bad throw that Zach was lucky it wasn’t picked (it got tipped at the line).
Awful is a pretty relative term, but #1 was a bad decision, #2 was a bad throw, #3 was awful and #4...somebody messed up really bad there. If you want to split the difference and give half credit to the WR on that one, go for it.
 

luckiestman

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Awful is a pretty relative term, but #1 was a bad decision, #2 was a bad throw, #3 was awful and #4...somebody messed up really bad there. If you want to split the difference and give half credit to the WR on that one, go for it.

One of the worst throws was a completion. He had 8 for an easy TD and he led him out of bounds.
 

Euclis20

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One of the worst throws was a completion. He had 8 for an easy TD and he led him out of bounds.
Sure, but that doesn't make his picks any less bad. None of the interceptions were phenomenal plays by the Patriots, and none of them were terrible bobbles or drops by the WR. The first one was the only one when he was under any pressure from the D-line. His footwork is hot garbage, which you'd hope is fixable.
 

NortheasternPJ

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One of the worst throws was a completion. He had 8 for an easy TD and he led him out of bounds.
It’d be helpful if you could use the players names and not just their numbers. It’s pretty hard to keep straight one teams numbers neveremind opponents especially with no more number scheme as of this year.
 

luckiestman

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It’d be helpful if you could use the players names and not just their numbers. It’s pretty hard to keep straight one teams numbers neveremind opponents especially with no more number scheme as of this year.
Rookie Elijah Moore doesn’t seem easier to me. it’s the play where the defender got picked by Berrios
 

Over Guapo Grande

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The first pick was probably the best play by the D. JCJ reached back behind him to get a tip on the ball, which DMac volleyballed back. The second was a catchable ball. The 3rd was bad and the 4th seemed like a punt. I was surprised DMC didn't call for a fair catch on that one. If I recall correctly on the 4th, Zach was backpeddling/throwing off his back foot. (Definitely off the back foot- he had plenty of time, though).
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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I'm absolutely thrilled with Mac so far and convinced he is the answer for the future. Now they just need to keep building around him as he learns and improves at this level.
 

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Borderline meaningless stat given how the league has changed, but Mac has as many games his first year as a starter with 22+ completions (2) as Brady had in the 2001 regular season.
 

Willie Clay's Big Play

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There’s been a few posts about which one of Wilson’s picks was the worst/his fault. That alone makes me fell pretty good about Mac’s performance and development.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I think Mac was actually better last week. I think the Jets rattled him with some early pressures - having Yasir Durant play like Nosir Durant (h/t Chad Finn) didn't help - and Mac never got into the kind of rhythm he had last week.

He was 22-30 but a lot of his completions were for less than 2 yards.

But, bottom line, I don't think the receivers or the pass protection has been great, and it has led Mac to check down a lot, maybe sometimes when he could have waited.

Hopefully, the pass protection will improve.
 

Big McCorkle

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There’s been a few posts about which one of Wilson’s picks was the worst/his fault. That alone makes me fell pretty good about Mac’s performance and development.
Mac Jones discussion: I wonder what's causing his conservative play and relative lack of driving the ball down the field. When he does do it, he shows that he's absolutely physically capable of it, but he's just not doing it that much. Is it him not taking opportunities that are there, or are those opportunities just not there with enough frequency because either the coaches aren't putting them out there to begin with or the receivers aren't getting open?

Zack Wilson discussion: lol lmao which one of those four interceptions was the shittiest?
 

BrazilianSoxFan

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Mac Jones discussion: I wonder what's causing his conservative play and relative lack of driving the ball down the field. When he does do it, he shows that he's absolutely physically capable of it, but he's just not doing it that much. Is it him not taking opportunities that are there, or are those opportunities just not there with enough frequency because either the coaches aren't putting them out there to begin with or the receivers aren't getting open?

Zack Wilson discussion: lol lmao which one of those four interceptions was the shittiest?
If I had to guess, it's the amount of pressure the OL is letting get to him and he got too cautious about getting sacked, specially after the 4 sacks in the last preseason game.

His worst decisions, the backwards pass and the intentional grounding, were when trying to avoid being sacked, when taking the sack was the correct choice.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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My sense with the lack of "chunk" plays is that it has been drilled into Mac's head that there are 3 areas that you cannot afford to turn the ball over. Inside your own 20, Inside the opponent 20, and between the 20's. Ok, 3rd an long at midfield is probably the "ok-ist" place to try to jam a ball in, But I can live as a fan with a check down when the alternative is a 7 step drop with a rusher coming free after the RT whiffs.
 

wiffleballhero

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Is the Jets defense good?

For the most part I thought Mac seemed great, but on a couple of the sacks it seemed like a more experienced QB (Brady) would have thrown the ball away. It looked like the game was moving a little fast for him at those spots. Maybe they need to get some more tape for Trent Brown's calf.

(I also know plenty of QBs would have tried to force it into coverage for an INT, so I'll take the sack.)
 

lexrageorge

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Is the Jets defense good?

For the most part I thought Mac seemed great, but on a couple of the sacks it seemed like a more experienced QB (Brady) would have thrown the ball away. It looked like the game was moving a little fast for him at those spots. Maybe they need to get some more tape for Trent Brown's calf.

(I also know plenty of QBs would have tried to force it into coverage for an INT, so I'll take the sack.)
I think it's less about the Jets defense being good, than it is about it being faster than anything he has seen in NCAA. Game speed is probably the toughest adjustment for rookie QB's; even a bad NFL defense is a collection of college ball's fastest defenders. And the OL's performance didn't help at all.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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I said this with my game company yesterday- these weren't Cam Newton sacks. On one, someone said "He needs to learn how to throw the ball away" But Durant whiffed on the block -- it was early season Bobby Dalbec chasing a slider, so taking a sack and securing the ball was the best outcome there.
 

rodderick

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I'm more than fine with what they've been doing with Mac so far, I think that's the correct way to bring him into the game. Take the short stuff if it's there, don't force it, use your accuracy and decisiveness to keep the team out of bad situations, he's been doing all of that (aside from panicking with bodies around him, just take the sack). What remains to be seen in his development is what happens when they're chasing? They haven't really played from behind up until this point. What if the Bucs come out Week 4 and the Pats are down 10-0 in 8 minutes? Is that still the game plan? Does the game plan then change and does he adjust to a more aggressive approach? It's so hard to evaluate by this point because in both Weeks the ball control script never really had to be altered.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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I'm more than fine with what they've been doing with Mac so far, I think that's the correct way to bring him into the game. Take the short stuff if it's there, don't force it, use your accuracy and decisiveness to keep the team out of bad situations, he's been doing all of that (aside from panicking with bodies around him, just take the sack). What remains to be seen in his development is what happens when they're chasing? They haven't really played from behind up until this point. What if the Bucs come out Week 4 and the Pats are down 10-0 in 8 minutes? Is that still the game plan? Does the game plan then change and does he adjust to a more aggressive approach? It's so hard to evaluate by this point because in both Weeks the ball control script never really had to be altered.
I posted this in the game ball thread pretty much simultaneously with you:

My guess is that they will open the playbook as much as they feel that they need to. They were "in" the Miami game, so they could keep doing what was working-ish. Ahead on the Jets early, so why change. If/when they ever fall down 14 - I think that will show how much the coaching staff feels comfortable releasing the hounds.
 

rodderick

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I posted this in the game ball thread pretty much simultaneously with you:
Yeah, I think that's where we'll see how much is on Mac and how much is just them drilling into him to be cautious. I don't think he'll ever be a gunslinger and I don't want/need him to be one either, and I know it's incredibly early and that the returns so far have been really good, I just want to catch a glimpse of something that gives me confidence he won't be Teddy Bridgewater/Jimmy Garoppolo (I think he'll be better than those guys, but I want to see it).
 

Gash Prex

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Anybody watching other QBs not named Mahomes and Brady play yesterday should be ecstatic with Macs play. The last thing I want is Mac forcing it down the field based on these types of comments. Thus far they have had very little need to force the ball down field and when they did in the Miami game it looked good.

The line needs to play better and give him a chance to get the ball down the field. The running game needs consistency to open up the playbook as well. The occasional long run is great but consistently getting 1-2 yards on 1st and 2nd down is a real problem for the offense as a whole.

The All 22 showed very little last week in terms of Mac missing throws downfield (except for one to Smith on a PA) - essentially he was reading the defense well and going to the open man. Moreover, this idea of "reads from bottom up etc" doesn't seem on point as the QB is supposed to identify favorable matchups based on the pre-snap read and then watch what the defense does post snap.

I think with more time in the pocket and experience at the NFL level, he will make smart downfield throws but anybody expecting huge down field plays on a regular basis is simply wishcasting a different offense for the patriots. Except for 2007 I cannot recall a big time downfield passing attack by the Patriots.
 

Eddie Jurak

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So far, he's at worst holding his own. That's good enough for now, but he needs to get better over the course of the season.
 

rodderick

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Anybody watching other QBs not named Mahomes and Brady play yesterday should be ecstatic with Macs play. The last thing I want is Mac forcing it down the field based on these types of comments. Thus far they have had very little need to force the ball down field and when they did in the Miami game it looked good.

The line needs to play better and give him a chance to get the ball down the field. The running game needs consistency to open up the playbook as well. The occasional long run is great but consistently getting 1-2 yards on 1st and 2nd down is a real problem for the offense as a whole.

The All 22 showed very little last week in terms of Mac missing throws downfield (except for one to Smith on a PA) - essentially he was reading the defense well and going to the open man. Moreover, this idea of "reads from bottom up etc" doesn't seem on point as the QB is supposed to identify favorable matchups based on the pre-snap read and then watch what the defense does post snap.

I think with more time in the pocket and experience at the NFL level, he will make smart downfield throws but anybody expecting huge down field plays on a regular basis is simply wishcasting a different offense for the patriots. Except for 2007 I cannot recall a big time downfield passing attack by the Patriots.
No one is saying he needs to be throwing 50 yard bombs into double coverage or anything like that, just, you know, 18 out of 30 attempts under 5 yards seems a tad conservative.
44416
 

Gash Prex

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No one is saying he needs to be throwing 50 yard bombs into double coverage or anything like that, just, you know, 18 out of 30 attempts under 5 yards seems a tad conservative.
Did you look at the pass charts for other QBs? Herbert had 21 of his 41 attempts within 5 yards. Mahomes had 7 attempts past 10 yards and was 3/7 with a TD (13 of his 31 were within 5 yards).

They called 6 screen plays at least based on that chart. Not sure what he is supposed to do there
 

rodderick

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Did you look at the pass charts for other QBs? Herbert had 21 of his 41 attempts within 5 yards. Mahomes had 7 attempts past 10 yards and was 3/7 with a TD (13 of his 31 were within 5 yards).

They called 6 screen plays at least based on that chart. Not sure what he is supposed to do there
Who's saying he's supposed to do something different? They have been extremely conservative. It's understandable, he's a rookie, they haven't really trailed and needed a quick score, this is a ball control offense, Trent Brown is out and Mac has performed very well in this role and basically made no mistakes when throwing the football, he's done enough to win both games.

I just don't know why it's taboo to say the obvious: he's second last in the league in intended air yards/attempt and last in air yards/completion. No one is claiming they need to go 70's Raiders on the league or else, we're mostly curious to see how this develops and how much of it is play calling/situational football and how much it's just Mac passing over opportunities. I believe it's more likely to be the former, and that's an understandable approach, but they'll need more from the passing game than this at some point and I'm curious to see how it'll go, considering they were even more conservative this week than last.
 

Jimbodandy

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Who's saying he's supposed to do something different? They have been extremely conservative. It's understandable, he's a rookie, they haven't really trailed and needed a quick score, this is a ball control offense, Trent Brown is out and Mac has performed very well in this role and basically made no mistakes when throwing the football, he's done enough to win both games.

I just don't know why it's taboo to say the obvious: he's second last in the league in intended air yards/attempt and last in air yards/completion. No one is claiming they need to go 70's Raiders on the league or else, we're mostly curious to see how this develops and how much of it is play calling/situational football and how much it's just Mac passing over opportunities. I believe it's more likely to be the former, and that's an understandable approach, but they'll need more from the passing game than this at some point and I'm curious to see how it'll go, considering they were even more conservative this week than last.
This is a fair take. We have put up 41 points in two games, which isn't bad. But Mac had four extra possessions in the first half yesterday alone.

None of the criticisms of Mac leaving chunk plays on the field in the first two weeks are condemnations. Clearly the guy is an NFL quarterback. He's efficient and so far takes decent care of the ball and isn't losing games for us, which is a fucking achievement for a guy his age and experience level. Whether he's too conservative or JMCD is too conservative is more or less immaterial at this point. The offense hasn't proven that they can win games for us, just that it won't lose them. That's the next hurdle for Mac. And there's no reason to think that he can't clear it.
 
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Brohamer of the Gods

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What is concerning to me is that a lot of those short passes didn't turn into anything. 9 of Mac's completions gained 3 yards or fewer for a grand total of 11 yards gained. ( 2, -1, 2, 3, -1, 3, 3, -1, 1)

Now that isn't all on Mac. The lack of a slot receiver who can consistently get those 5-7 yard completions that sustain drives is evident.
 

DourDoerr

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What is concerning to me is that a lot of those short passes didn't turn into anything. 9 of Mac's completions gained 3 yards or fewer for a grand total of 11 yards gained. ( 2, -1, 2, 3, -1, 3, 3, -1, 1)

Now that isn't all on Mac. The lack of a slot receiver who can consistently get those 5-7 yard completions that sustain drives is evident.
It was certainly striking going from this game to the later KC-Balt affair which had a couple of short passes converted to huge gains by YAC - particularly the Kelce TD. I really like what they're doing with Mac. It's safe and keeping him relatively clean while building up his confidence and his teammates' belief in him. From the tv angles, you can see some receivers open downfield every now and then, so it should only be a matter of time for the line, receivers, QB to coalesce and we'll see more efficient production. There was a shot from behind the QB on one snap where you could see a receiver all alone behind the secondary on the right side while Mac had to eat it due to the pass rush. As game speed slows for Mac, and he gets/creates better protection, he should improve on those air yard numbers.

It's very encouraging. Especially when you see vet QB's all around the league just throwing balls out willy-nilly while under duress - heck, even Mahomes! I like Mac's discipline and, yes, luck (especially since I subscribe to the notion of luck being the residue of design). Only 2 games, but Mac's showing that he might have a high floor and, as we're seeing with all the other rookie/young QB's out there, that's something that shouldn't be taken for granted. So far, camp and pre-season haven't been a mirage.
 

DJnVa

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Anybody watching other QBs not named Mahomes and Brady play yesterday should be ecstatic with Macs play. The last thing I want is Mac forcing it down the field based on these types of comments. Thus far they have had very little need to force the ball down field and when they did in the Miami game it looked good.
There's a difference between "forcing" the ball down the field and throwing it down the field. No one wants him to force things.
 

Cellar-Door

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Mac Jones is 29th in Air yards per attempt. So yes, the combination of play calling and his choices is leading to an offense that is making very little in the way of attempts to move the ball meaningfully downfield through the air.

Now, yesterday that didn't matter because the defense snuffed out a bad Jets offense, but it probably did hurt in the MIA game where they squandered a lot of chances, and once we start playing teams more capable of scoring points and/or defending the run he and Josh will need to open it up for the team to have a real chance to win.

Completing a high percentage of your very short attempts, and not turning it over are very good signs, but the next step to being a real playoff caliber team is to attempt and complete more passes in the 7-15 yard range. It's not DEEP throws that people are worried about, it's that intermediate range that we need to see them attempt and complete.
 

Gash Prex

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Of course Air Yards Per Attempt is not a meaningfully correlated stat to offensive production that I've seen. Top 2020 Leaders included Joe Flacco, Drew Lock, Carson Wentz. Top 2021 leaders include Justin Fields, Trevor Lawrence, Daniel Jones, Josh Allen etc...

Just to be clear, I am not arguing that the offense has been explosive - I'm arguing that the lack of down the field throwing has very little to do with Mac Jones decision making, but the play calling and game situations (score, field position, etc...) and poor offensive line play (combined with penalties).

For example, the pats call for 6 screens in the last game - and they go no where - that clearly affects the above referenced stats - but that has little to do with Mac's decision making.

Now just like last week, I'm sure Mac missed some plays given that he is a rookie - on the toss back pass, he opted for a "safe" play that gained about 20 yards versus a TD.

View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1440020657497157640

And since we are using "next gen stats", Mac Jones has been classified as "Aggressive" on 10.1% of his throws - and the least "aggressive" QB has been Patrick Mahomes at 7.5%. I have no idea what that means given that the most aggressive QBs are the bad news bears of QB's this season.
 
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SMU_Sox

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The downfield stuff won’t be a lot but he’s missed probably 6-8 downfield shots or intermediate shots now in two games. It’s not a lot but it’s never going to be a ton because deep shots are a small percentage of the throws. But if he takes say 4 shots a game and passes up on 4 that’s 50% of shots he should be taking. FWIW Perry said he missed them this week and Mac admitted he need missed some too. He’s leaving meat on the bone. He’s also a rookie. He has a habit of improving mistakes so it’s something to monitor.

Here are my All-22 notes to back it up from game pass… oh wait. Fuck you, NFL.
 
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RedOctober3829

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The downfield stuff won’t be a lot but she’s missed probably 6-8 downfield shots or intermediate shots now in two games. It’s not a lot but it’s never going to be a ton because deep shots are a small percentage of the throws. But if he takes say 4 shots a game and passes up on 4 that’s 50% of shots he should be taking. FWIW Perry said he missed them this week and Mac admitted he need missed some too. He’s leaving meat on the bone. He’s also a rookie. He has a habit of improving mistakes so it’s something to monitor.

Here are my All-22 notes to back it up from game pass… oh wait. Fuck you, NFL.
Believe me, as you know I want him to push the envelope down the field. But not at the expense of possibly throwing a couple INTs that he shouldn't. BB says accuracy and decision making are his two most valued qualities in a quarterback and I believe that Mac has both of those. He's going to start to trust his eyes as the games go by and those deep shots will be taken advantage of.
 

Gash Prex

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The downfield stuff won’t be a lot but he’s missed probably 6-8 downfield shots or intermediate shots now in two games. It’s not a lot but it’s never going to be a ton because deep shots are a small percentage of the throws. But if he takes say 4 shots a game and passes up on 4 that’s 50% of shots he should be taking. FWIW Perry said he missed them this week and Mac admitted he need missed some too. He’s leaving meat on the bone. He’s also a rookie. He has a habit of improving mistakes so it’s something to monitor.

Here are my All-22 notes to back it up from game pass… oh wait. Fuck you, NFL.
I read Phil Perry's article - and he seems to be making something out of "average yards in the air" as though its a gospel stat of ....something. In fact, it appears to be no more than finding a stat and then giving anecdotal evidence and a narrative for a story. I'm far more interested in his break downs of the plays and whether the All 22 bears out his analysis of those plays.
 

SMU_Sox

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Believe me, as you know I want him to push the envelope down the field. But not at the expense of possibly throwing a couple INTs that he shouldn't. BB says accuracy and decision making are his two most valued qualities in a quarterback and I believe that Mac has both of those. He's going to start to trust his eyes as the games go by and those deep shots will be taken advantage of.
As SN mentioned elsewhere though if you take what the defense gives you that means when they give you a single high look (for example) and a deep shot is the right decision you have to take it. I am not as concerned about it because I think he has shown he does learn from mistakes but it’s something to at least monitor going forward. His deep accuracy isn’t an issue. Also, he was under a ton of pressure yesterday so I would get why his play was sped up.
 

BrazilianSoxFan

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Mac seems to me to be the type of QB that would benefit greatly from having permission to audible. He may not be ready for that now, but it's something that he will eventually be able to do and would open up the offense a lot.
 

Harry Hooper

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FWIW, Zolak on the radio today said the timing on the double-pass play wouldn't have worked with Agholor. He got to the end zone before Mac was ready to throw, and the DB would have been right on Agholor by the time the ball got there.
 

Cellar-Door

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Of course Air Yards Per Attempt is not a meaningfully correlated stat to offensive production that I've seen. Top 2020 Leaders included Joe Flacco, Drew Lock, Carson Wentz. Top 2021 leaders include Justin Fields, Trevor Lawrence, Daniel Jones, Josh Allen etc...
I would say it's more the opposite way... it's not that high IAY means much, it's very low IAY is a wasteland.... and Drew Brees. High IAY aren't necessarily in themselves good, it depends how you complete those attempts. However (with the possible exception of Brees but even in his case, as his IAY dropped it was part of his overall production trailing off) guys who have very low IAY just aren't producing much. I wouldn't expect Mac to ever be a league leader in IAY, but if he's bottom 3-4 in the league and way below average, there is a pretty hard ceiling on how much offense he's producing.
 

Mystic Merlin

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He’s gonna have to get more aggressive, as Mac himself has already acknowledged. I’d rather have a situation where a young player needs to be coached to take MORE rather than fewer risks. There’s certainly a risk that a young player could stultify into a Sam Bradford check down artist, but I’m not terribly worried about that.

I do think it helps for Mac’s growth that Bill sees football as a constant risk/reward calculus, rather than a ‘avoid all turnover at all costs’ exercise whereby a young QB will be excoriated for any turnover but NOT in the event he passes up a reasonable big play opportunity by being too risk averse.
 

scott bankheadcase

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100%. People who aren’t happy with Mac so far are out of their mind. We just saw Wilson throw 3 awful INTs out of 4 total. The other rookie QBs look like crap so far (they will get better but just talking so far) and even Burrow threw 3 picks today. The Pats don’t even have guys who can get open downfield and he’s doing well. If the All 22 shows he missed guys this week ill take another stance.
Lance has a 100 percent completion percentage and every throw has gone for a TD!

(Completely agree Mac looks best right now)
 

Gash Prex

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https://www.clnsmedia.com/advanced-stats-report-patriots-mac-jones-ranks-31st-in-air-yards-through-two-games/

Two plays where Mac missed a down field throw in this report.

A TD to Nelson could have been had on the pitch back. Looked to me like Mac hurried on the pitch back and saw the wide open Smith and just went there instead of looking for Nelson. Of course a wide open play for 19 is nothing to sneeze at in the NFL.

I think the Hunter Henry play is more complicated and is something Mac needs to get right. Mac clearly looks at Henry (or middle) as his first read but there are 2 defenders so he looks to his left - and when he does this the Jets blow the coverage and Henry is running clear down field for a TD. The center gets beat and Mac scrambles and instead of launching it...does well whatever that thing was at end of the half.
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,622
Competence is by no means assured for a rookie QB, even one that is supposed to be fairly polished like Mac. Didn't have to look far yesterday to see how bad they can look. NFL-level QB processing is hard to evaluate and Mac already looks like he "get it". That alone is a fantastic sign.

I don't know where he ultimately ends up, and certainly he is going to have to be better than this to become an upper echelon QB. But he is already showing a lot of promise and a high floor. We shouldn't take a rookie QB looking like he belongs out there already for granted.