Westbrook traded to the Lakers
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1420901142817611779
The Lakers and Wizards have agreed on the trade for Russell Westbrook, sources tell ESPN.
The Lakers and Wizards have agreed on the trade for Russell Westbrook, sources tell ESPN.
I think that Lebron and Westbrook will love playing together. What's worrisome from an honest Lakers fan POV is how the notoriously competitive and focused Westbrook will handle the clown show that is the Lakers organization top to bottom. The shitty owner and front office nonsense and all the distractions that come from playing there...we will hear stories. Smart move though, rolling the dice as Lebron ages in dog years before our eyes. Could be good. Kuzma, KCP, and Montrezl are junk now, and the first is #22. Not a huge price to pay.
My friend who lives in So. Cal now and has a friend who's a big Laker fan says his friend doesn't like the deal. Too many ball hogs. Hope he's right. Bad day for us. First the Stanks get Gallo and Rizzo and now Westbrook to the stinking Lakers.
Westbrook will be more than happy to jack up 30 shots on the nights Lebron and AD are load managing, so it’ll help a lot in the regular season. Not sure it improves their ceiling at all, and it may have made their shooting and depth problems even worse.
It's not really a robbery for either team. Lakers get the best player in the deal. Wizards get a first, liberation from an extremely expensive contract, and fungible players.
I don't see how Westbrook and LeBron will coexist. Both of them like to have the ball in their hands. Westbrook isn't really a good enough shooter to play off the ball and let LeBron control everything.
Westbrook has played with Harden twice and Durant. Lebron has been there, done that, and doesn't need the ball for 48 minutes a game for everyone to know that he is the man. He's going to spend most of next year conserving energy for the finals. A guy like Westbrook who plays at 90MPH every day is a perfect running mate for a guy who needs to spend less time with his foot on the throttle.
What happens in the playoffs when any reasonably smart team forces Westbrook to stand in the half court and make wide open jump shots?
That's been the case his entire career and it hasn't worked out for him.
When you have the chance to trade a first round pick to make your team older and more selfish, you have to do it.
My first instinct was this was Kobe-Nash-Howard insanity but that's nonsense. The more I think about it, the more interesting it becomes.
Westbrook isn't a 1A or a 1B, but he and Lebron are two of the best passers in the league and when they're locked-in, excellent defenders. In fact the model shouldn't all that different from the Heatles years - surround Westbrook, Lebron and AD with a bunch of shooters/vets and a couple of bruising defenders, and that team becomes terrifying - if everyone can stay on the floor.
And all they gave up is some schlock and a few picks.
Westbrook isn't a 1A or a 1B, but he and Lebron are two of the best passers in the league and when they're locked-in, excellent defenders. In fact the model shouldn't all that different from the Heatles years - surround Westbrook, Lebron and AD with a bunch of shooters/vets and a couple of bruising defenders, and that team becomes terrifying - if everyone can stay on the floor.
And all they gave up is some schlock and a few picks.
They are just missing the sharp shooters and bruising defenders… Arguably the most valued skill sets in the league behind playmaking (which admittedly they have in spades).
I was catching up to some draft coverage this morning and KOC seemed to be implying that there might be a Horton-Tucker for Hield S&T in the works. I'm not sure if it was pure speculation or sourced. Either way, fuck the Lakers and I hope this all blows up.
Of the thousands of members here, there's maybe a handful of people who disagree with your sentiment.
That said, I think that folks are whistling past the graveyard a bit. I wish the Lakers ill will as much as the next guy and go back to the 79-80 series, cheering hard for the Sixers at the time. But I don't see a legitimate case that can be made for why this doesn't improve their team this year.
Lakers just went 3-for-1 and added $8.4M to their cap expenses this year. Right now they are sitting at $128M in current expenses (including the dead Luol Deng money), with 4 players under contract.
Now they can use Bird rights to keep Schroder, as it's unlikely that he'll do better in free agency. Caruso is probably gone, because his Bird max is like $6M AAV. I assume that they match on Horton-Tucker. The rest of last year's roster is vet minimum guys anyways.
Going to be tough to fill out that roster with anything other than dreck.
With that said, I am genuinely interested in how the Lakers mesh with this roster. I don't think there's ever been one quite like it.
Last edited:
You have to feel like this helps them a lot regular season—-Westbrook for his many flaws is a creator and a guy who helps a team that had little on the many games LBJ/AD were out or even when they sat.
What you still wonder is the playoffs—-aren’t they going to face zones or other forms of sagging defenses a ton with those three on the court at once? Even if you assume two great shooters with them somehow (vet FAs, Hield for THT, whatever) it’s still an odd playoff rotation. But there is more talent there than before, and LBJ is so unique you can’t bet fully against it working somehow
What you still wonder is the playoffs—-aren’t they going to face zones or other forms of sagging defenses a ton with those three on the court at once? Even if you assume two great shooters with them somehow (vet FAs, Hield for THT, whatever) it’s still an odd playoff rotation. But there is more talent there than before, and LBJ is so unique you can’t bet fully against it working somehow
Isn't the legitimate case that the LAL is a lot like the Al Horford Sixers - where defenses could just pack it in and dare them to beat them from the outside (particularly during the playoffs)?
Maybe they invert the offense; let AD be the ballhandler and post up RWB constantly. Like everyone else, i will be fascinated to see how it works out.
As the site's foremost Westbrook defender, I am happy with the trade. The worst case scenario for me in any season is that the Lakers win the championship. If they win next year I will at least be consoled by Westbrook being a part of the team.
Westbrook simultaneously solves some of the Lakers problems while exacerbating others. One of the key issues for the Laker's last season was that they didn't have another natural creator besides LeBron. This was a major problem for them offensively during moments when LeBron sat or was injured or not 100%. Davis, for all of his talents, is not a natural creator and though he can score, it becomes difficult for him facing double-teams and having to make quick decisions to get limited players good shots. Westbrook in theory solves that issue, because he is a natural creator that can get other players good shots, both in the half-court and transition.
The problems for the Lakers come from all of Westbrook's faults, few of which can be easily hidden on this Lakers team. The first is that he is a lazy/bad defender who always guards the opponent's weaker player. LeBron usually takes that role because he wants to conserve energy. While both guys are capable of being good defenders thanks to their athletic superiority, it becomes a challenge when two of your best players are bad defenders who don't want to try hard on that end for most games.
The second issue is a lack of shooting; LeBron is an okay shooter, as is Davis, but teams will gladly pack the paint and let them shoot. Westbrook is an abysmal three point shooter, so now you aren't getting good shooting from 3 positions on the floor. So you need to get pretty good shooters to fill out the rest of the roster. You also need to get good defenders to fill out the rest of the roster to make up for the Westbrook/LeBron issue on that end of the floor. Can you find that many good 3&D guys in the bargain bin?
The third issue is that Westbrook to be at his best, needs to play in a transition-oriented offense. Westbrook can create his own fast breaks thanks to his incredible defensive rebounding and ability to push the ball down the court. This is also when his best playmaking skills are on display as he will gladly feed his teammates for easy buckets if they run the floor with him. But who will run the floor with him? The Lakers shipping out a lot of their younger role players hurts because those are guys who would run the floor with Westbrook. LeBron, for all of his gifts as a transition finisher, isn't doing that as much anymore. If you bring in savvy vets, you aren't getting the same energy and you need some young energy guys to run with Westbrook. One of the reasons he thrived in the second-half of last season in Washington is that he was playing with a lot of hungry young players looking to make it in the league, and they were eager to get out and run.
The final issue is health. While Westbrook has maintained an impressive energy level throughout his career, he hasn't always been healthy, and with his playing style, age, and odometer, he is a real injury risk. LeBron has had two recent seasons derailed by injuries and isn't getting any younger. Davis has had issues staying healthy his entire career. This is a pretty high-risk team and its a real question mark who is going to be 100% next spring.
Westbrook simultaneously solves some of the Lakers problems while exacerbating others. One of the key issues for the Laker's last season was that they didn't have another natural creator besides LeBron. This was a major problem for them offensively during moments when LeBron sat or was injured or not 100%. Davis, for all of his talents, is not a natural creator and though he can score, it becomes difficult for him facing double-teams and having to make quick decisions to get limited players good shots. Westbrook in theory solves that issue, because he is a natural creator that can get other players good shots, both in the half-court and transition.
The problems for the Lakers come from all of Westbrook's faults, few of which can be easily hidden on this Lakers team. The first is that he is a lazy/bad defender who always guards the opponent's weaker player. LeBron usually takes that role because he wants to conserve energy. While both guys are capable of being good defenders thanks to their athletic superiority, it becomes a challenge when two of your best players are bad defenders who don't want to try hard on that end for most games.
The second issue is a lack of shooting; LeBron is an okay shooter, as is Davis, but teams will gladly pack the paint and let them shoot. Westbrook is an abysmal three point shooter, so now you aren't getting good shooting from 3 positions on the floor. So you need to get pretty good shooters to fill out the rest of the roster. You also need to get good defenders to fill out the rest of the roster to make up for the Westbrook/LeBron issue on that end of the floor. Can you find that many good 3&D guys in the bargain bin?
The third issue is that Westbrook to be at his best, needs to play in a transition-oriented offense. Westbrook can create his own fast breaks thanks to his incredible defensive rebounding and ability to push the ball down the court. This is also when his best playmaking skills are on display as he will gladly feed his teammates for easy buckets if they run the floor with him. But who will run the floor with him? The Lakers shipping out a lot of their younger role players hurts because those are guys who would run the floor with Westbrook. LeBron, for all of his gifts as a transition finisher, isn't doing that as much anymore. If you bring in savvy vets, you aren't getting the same energy and you need some young energy guys to run with Westbrook. One of the reasons he thrived in the second-half of last season in Washington is that he was playing with a lot of hungry young players looking to make it in the league, and they were eager to get out and run.
The final issue is health. While Westbrook has maintained an impressive energy level throughout his career, he hasn't always been healthy, and with his playing style, age, and odometer, he is a real injury risk. LeBron has had two recent seasons derailed by injuries and isn't getting any younger. Davis has had issues staying healthy his entire career. This is a pretty high-risk team and its a real question mark who is going to be 100% next spring.
It does make load management a little easier--they can hopefully (from their POV) get 2 of the 3 involved on nights where the other is resting. They maybe scratch out a few more wins on those nights, and get an easier playoff matchup as a result.
Games when all 3 play will be fascinating.
Games when all 3 play will be fascinating.
agreed, it's good for both clubs. but always thought KCP played a nice defensive complementary role to Bron/AD
I usually see Westbrook a ton in the offseason at my favorite lunch spot in Santa Monica. Probably will see a lot more of him
Only time I've seen RWB irl was at the Wynn poker room in Vegas years ago. He seemed so tiny.
But yeah, going to be fascinating to see what they can try to do to fill out a credible roster.
Totally fair question, esp. given how unclear I was - I really understated how difficult this would be. I was thinking a couple vet min and MLE types, some deadline trades. Bring back Caruso if you can (probably won't be affordable).
My attitude is Lebron has a good track record of getting the best out of those type of guys just because he has such gravity and is such a great passer and motivator - I'm thinking of JR Smith's miraculous defensive transformation (before his coach turned into a pumpkin), Delly, late-stage Richard Jefferson, Chalmers, etc. You could probably throw a Gerald Green type on that Lakers team and he'd be serviceable. Its not uncommon for guys like that to line up to play with Lebron, and then they often retire or disappear. Has Lebron ever had a passer as good as Westbrook on the floor with him? Rondo, I guess.
Anyway, I think people are absolutely right to worry about the spacing and the age/injury history of the people involved. But if this team can put two good shooters on the floor with Lebron, Westbrook, and AD - even if they have no other appreciable skills - the offense will be not only fine, but great. And since you don't know how much longer Lebron is good for, a third star, even of RWB's limitations, was a necessity.
It almost seems preordained that we're going to see guys like 'Melo and Dwight Howard (back) on the Lakers.
Caruso is done in Los Angeles. Already you have a bunch of teams rumored to be pursuing him. He'd have to give up a ton to sign a Bird contract.
Doesn't tampering have to involve an official team executive? We know that Lebron is effectively a GM, but in reality, he's just a player and I think they're allowed to talk.
You can't stop players from talking to other players. Team USA would be nothing but tampering.
Bron's production company is openly paying fellow players (like AD "That's All Folks" and Dame) to act in Space Jam.
Meetings are nothing in Bron's world. He has several ventures like PE investments, no-show TV/Movie roles, endorsement deals where he can funnel cold-hard Johnny to fellow players.
Obviously not tampering, but if the rumors are true (no idea if they are) that there's an agreement to expand the trade post-draft/post Aug 2 to S&t Schroder to the Wiz, Kuzma/Harrel to the Kings, and Hield to the Lakers....that would be, well, not tampering, but include illegal discussions since Schroder's camp would have to have been in on the discussions before the Aug 2 "we can talk" date.
Of course, more likely that rumor is just smoke.
Of course, more likely that rumor is just smoke.
I always believed the Thunder should have never broken up the BIG 3 of Durant, Westbrook and Harden after 2012. All to keep Ibaka. Look how close they came in 2016 and other years. Should have beaten the Warriors in 2016 but, (I know shoulda, coulda, woulda) I hate to say it but Westbrook and Labron could work together. God I hope I'm wrong!!!
The Pelicans own the Lakers 2022 pick from the AD trade. How could the Lakers trade this year's first rounder without running afoul of the Stepien Rule, as it left them without a first rounder for two consecutive years? Is it because the trade was made during the draft, so the 2021 draft no longer counted as a "future" draft?
That is correct. There are no restriction for trading picks in the current draft. The Lakers still cannot trade their 2023 draft choice until the 2022 league year completes.
I guess I was wrong...
Lakers acquisitions using all minimums except 1 mini-midlevel...
Kendrick Nunn (26)
Malik Monk (23)
Trevor Ariza (36)
Wayne Ellington (33)
Dwight Howard (35)
Kent Bazemore (32)
Carmelo Anthony (37)
Plus the return of this guy for 3/$32m...
Talen Horton-Tucker (20)
It is absolutely tampering when players do it. The rule explicitly covers them. But the league will not enforce it against players.