Celtics Plan, Summer 2021

Cellar-Door

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Well, at 10 million he is easily moved into someone's space next year if need be. Not so much at 20
I mean, yeah in that at $10M he;d be wildly underpaid.
Fournier is a 16-20Mpy talent based on how the league has worked the last few years. He's probably a little overpaid at the top of that range, but not wildly so. The issue for us is that with our roster we really needed him to take 3 years and closer to $16M to make much sense despite him being a very good fit. Above that and you're locked into a team that is only a true title contender if both Tatum and Brown take big steps forward. You can't do that. At $16M or so you can have more ability to trade a guy like Smart for a star and have the depth to be a contender, or you can pretty easily move Fournier. At 20M you have tax issues, and you probably have to pay to move him unless he has a terrific year.

I think the Celtics were hoping to get Fournier back in the 3/48-3/53 range and see what happened with Beal and the like later. 4/80 is just too constricting, it makes more sense to get a stopgap in Richardson even if he;s not as good, and if you can't get a deal for Beal done, make the Beal decision, Smart and TL decisions all at once at the end of next year
 

nighthob

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Sending out Moses makes the Kemba trade sting a little bit more, as one could squint really hard and make yourself believe Moses was almost sort of as good a young prospect as who they might have taken with the 16th pick.
Only if you’re Mr. Magoo.

Richardson, to me, sort of seems like doing little more than kicking the can down the road on the TPE. It's not a bad move, but it's not a move that you want to have to give up an asset for. So, if you believe Brown wasn't an asset, the Richardson deal is fine, but if that's the case, the Kemba trade stings a bit more.
Richardson fills a roll here, while being part of a salary package for Beal later on.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Unfortunately, this is part of why Fournier was available for nothing, though. That and the lack of defense.

It is not a surprise that the market (one without enough scorers for the cap space available) would push him higher. Celts took a shot, it didn’t work in-season and now they may get outbid. But he’s a useful player and so may have been worth the shot. Plus, his agent telling the Herald he wants 4/$80 is not quite same as a team offering that….
 

pjheff

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It is not a surprise that the market (one without enough scorers for the cap space available) would push him higher. Celts took a shot, it didn’t work in-season and now they may get outbid. But he’s a useful player and so may have been worth the shot.
He could still be signed and traded into someone else’s cap space for another exception.
 

JM3

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A couple weeks ago the word was his agent was asking for $18m (& Dinwiddie's agent was asking for $25m which seemed crazy).

Then there were the rumors Knicks were willing to go $20m+/year, then his agent upped his ask I guess.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Sending out Moses makes the Kemba trade sting a little bit more, as one could squint really hard and make yourself believe Moses was almost sort of as good a young prospect as who they might have taken with the 16th pick.

Richardson, to me, sort of seems like doing little more than kicking the can down the road on the TPE. It's not a bad move, but it's not a move that you want to have to give up an asset for. So, if you believe Brown wasn't an asset, the Richardson deal is fine, but if that's the case, the Kemba trade stings a bit more.
The Kemba deal only stings if 1) you were willing to have him back next year or 2) you think Brad jumped the gun and sold low. I guess either are possible. I don't think Brown figures into it at all, though.
 

sezwho

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A couple weeks ago the word was his agent was asking for $18m (& Dinwiddie's agent was asking for $25m which seemed crazy).

Then there were the rumors Knicks were willing to go $20m+/year, then his agent upped his ask I guess.
Prefer someone else I’m not very inclined to provide the Cs a 20m+ tpe if I’m the Knicks

I also earn the Magoo glasses for Moses: I had thoughts of Moses having value and getting minutes. We’ll see what Alperen Sengun, the center actually drafted at 16, turns out to be but sounds like real potential.

https://www.nba.com/draft/2021/prospects/alperen-sengun
 

PedroKsBambino

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Seems clear they had a sequence of moves---and a direction---in mind. That to me makes it hard to criticize the Kemba deal without seeing the whole thing play out....and I was skeptical about the timing of the deal and giving the one, but I like the Richardson get and also the flexibility they clearly have in mind. So, more to come in my mind before any of us really see the plan well enough to question it.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Seems clear they had a sequence of moves---and a direction---in mind. That to me makes it hard to criticize the Kemba deal without seeing the whole thing play out....and I was skeptical about the timing of the deal and giving the one, but I like the Richardson get and also the flexibility they clearly have in mind. So, more to come in my mind before any of us really see the plan well enough to question it.
It feels good to have a direction which hasn’t seemed to have occurred since prior to acquiring KG. These past few years of plugging in crappy young players to fill roles without having established their identity yet was giving me ulcers.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Ok well this Guy Boston Sports site is run by my wife’s nephew from Cumberland, RI who is like 23 with no sources from what I know. He did tag a longtime SI writer but no idea what that means. First time I’ve seen him make a play like this before as he hasn’t even done a podcast since 2018 when he was still in college. If I hear anything about his legitimacy I’ll be sure to let you guys know but this seems like a big nothingburger that anyone could have made up with some creative thinking.
 

Cellar-Door

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Ok well this Guy Boston Sports site is run by my wife’s nephew from Cumberland, RI who is like 23 with no sources from what I know. He did tag a longtime SI writer but no idea what that means. First time I’ve seen him make a play like this before as he hasn’t even done a podcast since 2018 when he was still in college. If I hear anything about his legitimacy I’ll be sure to let you guys know but this seems like a big nothingburger that anyone could have made up with some creative thinking.
He's aggregating it from Fischer mentioning it on a podcast. Celtics were briefly mentioned as a team kicking the tires on Lonzo.
 

HomeRunBaker

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He's aggregating it from Fischer mentioning it on a podcast. Celtics were briefly mentioned as a team kicking the tires on Lonzo.
Yeah like I said anyone could have come up with this “rumor” I just wanted to point out that as far as I know doesn’t have any sources.
 

the moops

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I can't see it happening unless the Celtics had a deal lined up for Beal using Horford and Richardson.
Lonzo seems to want to be in CHI, and he's not enough of an upgrade to be worth basically punting on cap space next year...
I doubt all those dominoes could fall correctly, but how sick would it be to go into the season with Ball, Beal, Brown, Tatum, TL as a starting 5.
 

Jimbodandy

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I doubt all those dominoes could fall correctly, but how sick would it be to go into the season with Ball, Beal, Brown, Tatum, TL as a starting 5.
Those first four guys would probably win 50 games with you at center.

I love the rumors, but that combination of shit happens and someone's gonna check PBS scalp for 666.
 

the moops

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Those first four guys would probably win 50 games with you at center.

I love the rumors, but that combination of shit happens and someone's gonna check PBS scalp for 666.
it would be so epic if Stevens comes in and trades away like every player that played for him but Tatum and Brown. Would be so harsh
 

HomeRunBaker

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it would be so epic if Stevens comes in and trades away like every player that played for him but Tatum and Brown. Would be so harsh
I began a thread last month to discuss just this. It wouldn’t happen in his first summer but is a very real possibility over the next two years.
 

RedOctober3829

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Unsurprisingly, Boston’s brass isn’t too comfortable opening the season with a point guard depth chart topped by Marcus Smart and Payton Pritchard. There’s internal interest in Nets point guard Spencer Dinwiddie, though acquiring Dinwiddie—who told SI’s Howard Beck that he is seeking a contract in the five-year, $125 million range—gets financially complicated. Expect the Wizards, who will be in the point guard hunt with Westbrook gone, to make a run at Dinwiddie, too. Another potential Boston target: Spurs guard Patty Mills.

· Boston’s acquisition of Josh Richardson could spell the end of Marcus Smart’s run in Boston. Smart has become a fan favorite over seven years in Boston, but Brad Stevens has been frustrated by Smart’s unpredictable play in recent years, per sources. Smart, one of the NBA’s better perimeter defenders, is entering the final year of his contract. Boston could extend Smart, but two people familiar with Stevens thinking tell SI it’s more likely Stevens will look to trade Smart before the start of the season. Boston shopped Smart last season, seeking multiple first round picks, a team executive with knowledge of the discussions told SI. Smart’s value now? “Probably a first round pick and a rotational player,” a high ranking Eastern Conference executive told SI. “Might be able to swap him for similar player that fits a positional need. [Danny Ainge] valued him like an All-Star though—he is not.”
https://www.si.com/nba/2021/08/02/2021-nba-free-agency-preview-rumors-buzz
 

DJnVa

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Pretty much summarizes our thoughts. Ainge valued Smart higher than anyone else. We'll see how much Stevens values him now.
But man, that's gonna be an interesting set of moves if it happens...who's the PG? Satoransky possibly? Who else is out there?
 

Cellar-Door

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But man, that's gonna be an interesting set of moves if it happens...who's the PG? Satoransky possibly? Who else is out there?
If you're trading Smart a lot of guys open up.
Off the top of my head, guys who are close enough to Smart in value that you could get them fairly easily in a trade (either with a piece, alone, or with pieces added to Marcus, possibly 3 ways deals)...
Murray
Sexton
Dragic
Satoransky

The sneaky one is... Bradley Beal.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Never been a huge fan of Smart. . A lot of this board values him as much as Danny Ainge, though. I always thought the C's would be just as good/better off with a more traditional 3+D guy.

I think Lonzo would be a pretty big upgrade over Smart. Better passer, better shooter. Can switch. Reasonable minds may differ.
 

Kliq

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I'm skeptical about Lonzo, especially if he is getting $20 million + per year. I think people think of him as this classic pure point guard who handles the ball and gets everyone good shots, and in an era where few PGs have that role, it is attractive to some people. He really isn't that type of player, he is a very smart passer who is good in transition, but doesn't get to the rim (only averaged 1.2 FTA per game for his career) so he isn't a classic drive-and-kick kind of creator. He isn't really a threat in the pick-and-roll (again, because he doesn't get to the basket) He is better when he is on the perimeter and can make quick decisions swinging the ball and finding mismatches inside. A useful player, but not a classic PG. Marcus Smart and Lonzo averaged the same amount of apg (5.7) this past season.

He's thankfully improved his shooting from deep, which has really helped him as a player since he never gets to the basket. His efg% of 53% is solid, but mostly buoyed by the fact that 65% of his shots are threes. He is a good individual defender that has never played on a good defensive team, so it would be interesting to see him on the Celtics and how he would do. I'm not totally down on him, but I'm not very high either.
 

Cellar-Door

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I loved Smart on his last deal and in the 6th man role, he was a guy who was inconsistent from 3, but the rest of his offensive game was decent and I thought he was a top 15 defender 1-4, one of the most versatile in the league. His next deal.... not so much, he'll be getting paid more than you can really allot to your 6th man, and I expect his defense to slip some by the end of it, plus his 3pt shooting and decision making have regressed.
 

EL Jeffe

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I don't have a problem moving Smart simply because I don't think he's going to age well. I know he's only going into his age 27 season, but he carries a lot of weight on his frame and he plays so ridiculously hard night in and night out. That adds up and will catch up to him. There's no reason to move him for the sake of moving him (he's not an addition by subtraction type of guy), but if they can get real value for hm, sure. Like HRB has been pushing for, at this point I'm fine with a total renovation of the roster outside of the 2Js.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Never been a huge fan of Smart. . A lot of this board values him as much as Danny Ainge, though. I always thought the C's would be just as good/better off with a more traditional 3+D guy.

I think Lonzo would be a pretty big upgrade over Smart. Better passer, better shooter. Can switch. Reasonable minds may differ.
I find it hard to compare them because they are very different. I'm a huge Smart fan, but I think Smart for Lonzo (including locking Lonzo up long term) is one of the few Smart deals I would do. Like Smart, he's an atypical player with unique strengths.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I'm skeptical about Lonzo, especially if he is getting $20 million + per year. I think people think of him as this classic pure point guard who handles the ball and gets everyone good shots, and in an era where few PGs have that role, it is attractive to some people. He really isn't that type of player, he is a very smart passer who is good in transition, but doesn't get to the rim (only averaged 1.2 FTA per game for his career) so he isn't a classic drive-and-kick kind of creator. He isn't really a threat in the pick-and-roll (again, because he doesn't get to the basket) He is better when he is on the perimeter and can make quick decisions swinging the ball and finding mismatches inside. A useful player, but not a classic PG. Marcus Smart and Lonzo averaged the same amount of apg (5.7) this past season.

He's thankfully improved his shooting from deep, which has really helped him as a player since he never gets to the basket. His efg% of 53% is solid, but mostly buoyed by the fact that 65% of his shots are threes. He is a good individual defender that has never played on a good defensive team, so it would be interesting to see him on the Celtics and how he would do. I'm not totally down on him, but I'm not very high either.
I don't think anyone thinks Ball is a classic pure point guard. He's a tall PG who can switch, hit the 3 and play off the ball.

And he can rebound a little too. A lot of us would be happy with Murray too, though his 3 point shot is more questionable. There are no classic, pure PGs anymore. Very few anyway.
 

Fishy1

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Forgive the psychoanalysis, but if I had to guess, my read on Smart is that Danny valued him so much because he reminded him of himself... Of course I don't have to guess, I just like to...

If Smart is sent out for Beal, I won't miss him. The team has enough good to great defenders that he can be easily replaced. Richardson would slot into his role just fine. Dunn would be a fine backup. Or if they're sent out for salary, TJ McConnell would be a happy replacement.
 

DJnVa

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What's the most we could add in salary and years in still be in play for Beal as FA?
 

Cellar-Door

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I am deeply worried by the Doc Rivers-esque bring back guys who we had before after they've stopped being good vibe that has been coming out of this offseason.
If Brad signs IT it's a very very bad sign for his capabilities as a VPoBO.
 

DJnVa

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Meh, rumors are rumors. And if it happens, it's not going to impact anything we really want to do, e.g. Beal.
 

BigSoxFan

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But man, that's gonna be an interesting set of moves if it happens...who's the PG? Satoransky possibly? Who else is out there?
I’m kind of hoping it happens for that reason alone. I love this hot stove stuff.
 

radsoxfan

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IT is almost certainly toast, but as a faint glimmer of hope, he did have a hip resurfacing done a year ago with an artificial implant placed.

When he says he is pain free, he may actually mean it now. I’m not sure of any stories of patients getting back to their prior level after such a procedure, but at least he’s not just bone-on-bone arthritis anymore.

He’s had some other 10 day contracts after that procedure and he didn’t stick so I doubt there’s anything left. Would be a cool story though.
 

Kliq

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IT is almost certainly toast, but as a faint glimmer of hope, he did have a hip resurfacing done a year ago with an artificial implant placed.

When he says he is pain free, he may actually mean it now. I’m not sure of any stories of patients getting back to their prior level after such a procedure, but at least he’s not just bone-on-bone arthritis anymore.

He’s had some other 10 day contracts after that procedure and he didn’t stick so I doubt there’s anything left. Would be a cool story though.
Yeah, any team could have kicked the tires on him and didn't after he finished up with New Orleans. That means to me he is done. Unless he is killing it in workouts with teams, I don't see him getting back to the NBA without at least proving he is healthy in the G League or overseas.
 

teddykgb

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He may be more of a character play. It seems obvious and clear that the former coach didn’t feel like the player mix was right off the court. It would hardly be surprising if he prioritizes a locker room culture as he transitions to GM. Especially with a new coach, he simply may be trying to do as much as he can to improve the environment around his young stars. They were linked with Jeff Green as well.