Trade deadline

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Re: Dalbec...they mentioned on the radio yesterday that he was a good college pitcher - something I knew nothing about. Here's an article about that.

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2021/01/bobby-dalbec-red-sox-pitcher-alex-cora-called-12-strikeout-performance-in-2016-college-world-series-but-boston-has-never-asked-infielder-about-becoming-two-way-player.html

I know he wants to be a position player, but if he continues to struggle at the plate, if he can throw 95 with a good slider as Cora says he can, then maybe he should reconsider being a potential bullpen arm who could also pinch-hit in games when he isn't pitching.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Re: Dalbec...they mentioned on the radio yesterday that he was a good college pitcher - something I knew nothing about. Here's an article about that.

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2021/01/bobby-dalbec-red-sox-pitcher-alex-cora-called-12-strikeout-performance-in-2016-college-world-series-but-boston-has-never-asked-infielder-about-becoming-two-way-player.html

I know he wants to be a position player, but if he continues to struggle at the plate, if he can throw 95 with a good slider as Cora says he can, then maybe he should reconsider being a potential bullpen arm who could also pinch-hit in games when he isn't pitching.
Why would you want him to pinch hit though?

Dalbec is also on the old side to be converting but stranger things.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Franchy go 2-4 today? He got that hit in the 8th against the MFY to keep the rally going. I'm guessing that Bloom doesn't want to give up on him yet or he's showing him for something big. He looks okish at 1st in the small amounts I've seen and if Dalbec gets a change at just seeing lefties (like he most likely will today) then I'm guessing that Blooms not going to mess with anything unless it's big. I guess we'll all find out soon enough.
Franchy is 100% tradable or replaceable for the right upgrade.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Why would you want him to pinch hit though?

Dalbec is also on the old side to be converting but stranger things.
Eh, in case you need a homer. He won't make tons of contact but he has power so in a PH role, sometimes that's what you need - someone who can take it deep.
 

chawson

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I love Berrios. I’d would want someone with a little bit more control, but he’d fit nicely in with our Puerto Rican core and may be up to sign an extension.
 

PrometheusWakefield

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Re: Dalbec...they mentioned on the radio yesterday that he was a good college pitcher - something I knew nothing about. Here's an article about that.

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2021/01/bobby-dalbec-red-sox-pitcher-alex-cora-called-12-strikeout-performance-in-2016-college-world-series-but-boston-has-never-asked-infielder-about-becoming-two-way-player.html

I know he wants to be a position player, but if he continues to struggle at the plate, if he can throw 95 with a good slider as Cora says he can, then maybe he should reconsider being a potential bullpen arm who could also pinch-hit in games when he isn't pitching.
It's an interesting idea, but the path would involve going back down to the minors for a significant amount of reinvention time. And my guess is he'd never make it back up again.

It's like that line from the movie Sugar: Life gives you many opportunities, but baseball only gives you one. Bobby Dalbec was given a huge opportunity this year and he did not succeed. He's unlikely to ever get another chance to establish himself as a major league player.
 

ehaz

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Jeff Passan (ESPN Insider): "Cubs have at least had preliminary conversations with Boston about a deal with Rizzo"

"Rizzo’s [market] is not so robust, which is to be expected for a position player about to enter free agency. And yet the Cubs have at least had preliminary conversations with Boston about a deal for Rizzo, according to sources, as Boston has the worst first-base production of any team in baseball this season."
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Re: Dalbec...they mentioned on the radio yesterday that he was a good college pitcher - something I knew nothing about. Here's an article about that.

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2021/01/bobby-dalbec-red-sox-pitcher-alex-cora-called-12-strikeout-performance-in-2016-college-world-series-but-boston-has-never-asked-infielder-about-becoming-two-way-player.html

I know he wants to be a position player, but if he continues to struggle at the plate, if he can throw 95 with a good slider as Cora says he can, then maybe he should reconsider being a potential bullpen arm who could also pinch-hit in games when he isn't pitching.
You're presumably viewing this as a long term plan for Dalbec, yes? Because it certainly isn't going to happen in the next couple months.

Ron Mahay is probably the template for this. He flopped as an outfielder, went back to the minors and became a reliever. But that took him a couple years to pull off. 5 games in the big leagues in 1995, back to the minors as a pitcher, made it back to the big leagues in 1997. Worth noting that Mahay was around Dalbec's current age when he got back to the bigs as a pitcher, so Dalbec's already a bit behind the curve.

Dalbec is also already ahead of Mahay's peak as a hitter, so he's probably got a ways to drop before he contemplates a re-invention to save his career.
 

walt in maryland

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Saw an interview with Dalbec early this season. He was asked if we might see him pitch in a lopsided game and said he hasn't been on a mound in a very long time. I do remember watching him pitch in the College WS. Big velocity.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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You're presumably viewing this as a long term plan for Dalbec, yes? Because it certainly isn't going to happen in the next couple months.

Ron Mahay is probably the template for this. He flopped as an outfielder, went back to the minors and became a reliever. But that took him a couple years to pull off. 5 games in the big leagues in 1995, back to the minors as a pitcher, made it back to the big leagues in 1997. Worth noting that Mahay was around Dalbec's current age when he got back to the bigs as a pitcher, so Dalbec's already a bit behind the curve.

Dalbec is also already ahead of Mahay's peak as a hitter, so he's probably got a ways to drop before he contemplates a re-invention to save his career.
I'm not really envisioning it as too much of a reality. More of a curiosity. I had no idea that Dalbec was a good college pitcher, and I was just wondering out loud if his bat never came around whether he'd want to give pitching a try, because he seems to have the tools to do it.
 

DJnVa

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Re: Dalbec...they mentioned on the radio yesterday that he was a good college pitcher - something I knew nothing about. Here's an article about that.

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2021/01/bobby-dalbec-red-sox-pitcher-alex-cora-called-12-strikeout-performance-in-2016-college-world-series-but-boston-has-never-asked-infielder-about-becoming-two-way-player.html

I know he wants to be a position player, but if he continues to struggle at the plate, if he can throw 95 with a good slider as Cora says he can, then maybe he should reconsider being a potential bullpen arm who could also pinch-hit in games when he isn't pitching.
Apparently in college he pitched against the guy that started for Toronto last night and beat him.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I'm not really envisioning it as too much of a reality. More of a curiosity. I had no idea that Dalbec was a good college pitcher, and I was just wondering out loud if his bat never came around whether he'd want to give pitching a try, because he seems to have the tools to do it.
I'm sure if it would keep him in baseball, he would try it.

I think the last Red Sox conversion was Williams Jerez but I could be wrong.

And now I just noticed that Ty Buttrey walked away from MLB this year. Heh.
 

Jimbodandy

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I'm sure if it would keep him in baseball, he would try it.

I think the last Red Sox conversion was Williams Jerez but I could be wrong.

And now I just noticed that Ty Buttrey walked away from MLB this year. Heh.
I love the idea of doing this in the offseason. His contact percentages are abysmal, and I'm not sure what kind of signs they have that there's hope there.
 

johnnywayback

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For what it's worth, I think I remember hearing on the SoxProspects podcast that Dalbec hated pitching and has zero interest in ever doing it in the pros.
 

ngruz25

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Has everyone forgotten about World Series Champion Dave McCarty already?! He convinced Francona to consider him for a bullpen role and got three solid appearances out of the experiment.
 

ookami7m

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This beats a discussion on turning Dalbec into a pitcher any day ... you wonder if the Padres are zeroing in on the Red Sox with that leak. Don't know what other contender needs a 1B
With a highly regarded prospect stapled to him, it doesn't have to be a contender this year for this deal. Someone who is looking to open their window in the next couple of years may be a landing spot.
 

E5 Yaz

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With a highly regarded prospect stapled to him, it doesn't have to be a contender this year for this deal. Someone who is looking to open their window in the next couple of years may be a landing spot.
Fair enough. That does widen the playing field
 

bosockboy

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This beats a discussion on turning Dalbec into a pitcher any day ... you wonder if the Padres are zeroing in on the Red Sox with that leak. Don't know what other contender needs a 1B
Makes a ton of sense as the Sox can have the Pads cover rest of Hosmer’s 2021 salary and stay under the threshold.
 

nattysez

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Discussed a bit upthread, but Hosmer has 4/$59m left on his contract, not including this year, and currently has an OPS+ of 100. I hope the Sox can find a cheaper replacement-level bat to play first.
 

BigSoxFan

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Discussed a bit upthread, but Hosmer has 4/$59m left on his contract, not including this year, and currently has an OPS+ of 100. I hope the Sox can find a cheaper replacement-level bat to play first.
He has seemingly alternated between replacement level and like OPS+ of 120-130. If we can't land any of the other 1B for a reasonable and we can get a valuable prospect attached to Hosmer, I'd at least consider it.
 

JBJ_HOF

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Why are you talking about the money owed to Hosmer and not his AAV, which is much higher. That's what the Red Sox care about.
 

bsj

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The Hosmer contract isn't good, but it isnt quite as awful as I thought.

2022 is awful, but then he's either gone, or takes a paycut to $13 mill per.
 

nighthob

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Abrams seems like he would be off limits. Gore has struggled for a bit now. A Hosmer trade with Campusano is the only one that may be interesting.
Why? He’s the definition of blocked at the moment. No matter what a guy looks like in AA ball, he ain’t getting past Junior Tatis. A deal around Homer/Abrams for Arroyo (allowing the Padres to move Cronenworth to 1B) would seem to work for both sides.
 

grimshaw

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Hosmer makes no sense short or long term. Prospect purchasing could have been a thing last season, but Casas is maybe a season away and JD will still be here.
You don't bench a guy making 18 mill for the next few seasons after Casas is ready.
 

joe dokes

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Eh, in case you need a homer. He won't make tons of contact but he has power so in a PH role, sometimes that's what you need - someone who can take it deep.
Dalbec is slugging .495 vs LHP. Its a tougher sell when the team only uses 3 bench players, but that is useful.
 

bosockboy

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Hosmer makes no sense short or long term. Prospect purchasing could have been a thing last season, but Casas is maybe a season away and JD will still be here.
You don't bench a guy making 18 mill for the next few seasons after Casas is ready.
You’d assume if something like this happened that Casas was being shipped out for Berrios or similar but yes agreed.
 

OCD SS

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Hosmer makes no sense short or long term. Prospect purchasing could have been a thing last season, but Casas is maybe a season away and JD will still be here.
You don't bench a guy making 18 mill for the next few seasons after Casas is ready.
No, you release him.. unfortunately the Sox care more about his AAV than salary, which is going to work against us here.
 

sean1562

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Why? He’s the definition of blocked at the moment. No matter what a guy looks like in AA ball, he ain’t getting past Junior Tatis. A deal around Homer/Abrams for Arroyo (allowing the Padres to move Cronenworth to 1B) would seem to work for both sides.
Abrams is a top 5 prospect in all of baseball. If the Padres trade him just to dump Hosmer I would be shocked. An Abrams for Berrios straight up would be almost immediately accepted. Abrams, prospect from the Padres 10-15, and Hosmer for Berrios might even be accepted.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Dalbec is slugging .495 vs LHP. Its a tougher sell when the team only uses 3 bench players, but that is useful.
He wouldn't be one of the 3 bench players, though. He'd be one of the MR. I guess I could see him being used to PH vs the occasional lefty if he were to make it as useful MR.
 

chawson

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Dalbec is slugging .495 vs LHP. Its a tougher sell when the team only uses 3 bench players, but that is useful.
Hosmer’s not useless against RHP, and had excellent numbers against them last year (.974 OPS). Platooning him with Dalbec would be kind of a silly way to do a roster, but more importantly, getting Abrams back as a trade chip gets us in the conversation for just about anyone else in baseball. He’s worth more than 1 1/2 years of Berrios.

A 3-team trade like this seems pretty good for all involved:
Sox get: Berrios, Buxton, Hosmer
Padres get: Rogers
Twins get: Abrams, a couple lower level arms from both teams
 

E5 Yaz

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A 3-team trade like this seems pretty good for all involved:
Sox get: Berrios, Buxton, Hosmer
Padres get: Rogers
Twins get: Abrams, a couple lower level arms from both teams
The Red Sox get Berrios, Buxton and Hosmer and trade away only a couple of lower level arms?
 

nvalvo

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The Red Sox get Berrios, Buxton and Hosmer and trade away only a couple of lower level arms?
...and take on ~$100m in payroll obligations from SD and Minn. Hosmer's value is something like negative-$30m.

(To be clear, I don't agree with Chawson that there is potential for such a deal to include Buxton *and* Berríos.)

Why are you talking about the money owed to Hosmer and not his AAV, which is much higher. That's what the Red Sox care about.
It's also addressable. Hosmer's AAV is $18, and he is signed through 2025, so four more seasons. If we set up a deal where SD contributes $24m, say, that contribution is only amortized over the remaining portion of the deal (not the seasons that have already passed), so his AAV would drop to ~$12. We hashed this out with a close reading of the CBA when we were talking about Wil Myers in the offseason.

I was discussing this earlier in the thread, but I could imagine a Hosmer salary dump accompanied with the best prospect we can get, and flipping that prospect, Dalbec, and maybe another prospect to a seller for controllable SP. I proposed Castillo, but I don't think the Reds should be sellers. Berríos is another great candidate. And it doesn't really block Casas; in fact, if anything, it gives Casas a flexible runway because Hosmer is installed, providing just-a-touch-above-replacement-level first base production keeping the seat warm. Hosmer wouldn't be making so much money that he couldn't just be DFA'd or traded to a rebuilding team to serve as a culture guy/veteran presence with us eating another $15m in a year or two.

The precise level of top prospect we could get from San Diego (Gore, Campusano, Abrams) depends on how motivated they are to cut payroll, which is something that we can't really evaluate from the outside.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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The Red Sox get Berrios, Buxton and Hosmer and trade away only a couple of lower level arms?
I think Hosmer here is viewed as a negative asset due to his contract. Clearly the Padres see him that way if they're willing to staple a quality prospect to him just to get him out of town.

So it's more like, the Red Sox get Berrios and Buxton, but the price they have to pay is to take on the negative asset of Hosmer and give up those pitching prospects he suggested.
 

PrometheusWakefield

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The Twins in that trade are trading away their best position player, their best starting pitcher and their best reliever and in return they get one top-10 prospect and anonymous pitchers.
 

cantor44

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Considering this hypothetical Berrios, Buxton, Hosmer blockbuster a bit ....I like the fantasy and yet:

My sense is - and this might seem too anti-data driven for some I will admit (and will take any flack directed at me) - that Bloom will not do anything to drastically disturb the very good vibe/dynamic of the current team (he's said as much). Cora, with this collection of players, has a good thing going ...Adding a starting pitcher doesn't really disrupt the band necessarily. Adding a starting pitcher and a new starting outfielder and a new starting first baseman, while jettisoning, potentially, a couple guys already on the ML roster IS disruptive. Mind you, it could be a disruption that is a net plus. But in a way it's also a risk to team cohesion. So, I don't seem them going that way.

I would like to see the team get both a bat and an arm .... but a major re-org of the the core might be something to consider in the off season ...
 

Sox Puppet

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I hope this doesn't come across as naive, but who's the weak link in the bullpen that really needs replacing now that Andriese and Brice are out of the picture? Yes, I know, you can never have too many good arms, but this doesn't strike me as urgent.

Getting a temporary 1B to replace Dalbec for this year (and next -- until Casas is ready) seems like the real priority. But I would want no part of Hosmer. Just because a replacement-level 1B is still better than Dalbec, doesn't mean we should be going after one.
 

bosockboy

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I hope this doesn't come across as naive, but who's the weak link in the bullpen that really needs replacing now that Andriese and Brice are out of the picture? Yes, I know, you can never have too many good arms, but this doesn't strike me as urgent.

Getting a temporary 1B to replace Dalbec for this year (and next -- until Casas is ready) seems like the real priority. But I would want no part of Hosmer. Just because a replacement-level 1B is still better than Dalbec, doesn't mean we should be going after one.
Workman for starters. I’d let Darwinzon go for Kimbrel also.