2021 NBA Playoffs Gamethread
- Thread starter JohnnyTheBone
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I can't stand CP3, specifically for this. Totally uncalled for, total cheap shots, and since he's done this on numerous occasions, I don't know how other players have respect for him. I also can't figure out how nobody has laid him out for doing something like this. (I guess they don't want to be suspended, but still)
I may be mistaken but it feels like fans and pundits focus on the dirty acts while the actual players and teams seem less worried about individual plays and more about whether a player helps them win or not. The league seems to place decent value on a players ability to skirt the line.
I know others disagree so we can move on but there are reasons so called dirty players survive and often thrive in the NBA. This isn't Hoosiers style basketball and it hasn't been for a long time.
I know others disagree so we can move on but there are reasons so called dirty players survive and often thrive in the NBA. This isn't Hoosiers style basketball and it hasn't been for a long time.
Heck, even this playoffs he was clearly trying to deliberately injure LBJ on a play (and they're buds). I admire the hell out of CP3 and he was flat great last night and has a great career. But this isn't an isolated college incident -- something in his DNA makes him lose control too often on the court. Combined with his flops it puts a bit of a stain on him for me even if no hesitation in recognizing how great he is. He's definitely not a Pat Bev who is way dirtier and way, way worse. Still don't get the denialism, though, about both CP3 and Pat Bev's dirtiness. Obviously part of both of their games and the idea that's part of why we should root for them is just lame. Pushes in the back, punches in the nuts are not winning basketball. They are defects in players, be that player great or bad.
As of two days ago Deandre Ayton could have missed his next 20 shots and still have the highest fg% ever for a playoff run. Then he went 8/10. Just insane
Is age the reason Jrue going to Tokyo and not CP3?
CP3 and Dray on the same team could sell a lot of cups otherwise
CP3 and Dray on the same team could sell a lot of cups otherwise
I think it’s just that the finals could possibly go until the 22nd, and then he’d have to play for team USA in the 25th. Playing a full season, a full playoffs all the way through the finals, and an Olympic tournament is a long grind with no break
The 2018 draft is looking insanely good at the top with Ayton, Trae and Luka all looking like stars. Yet somehow the Kings drafted 2nd and ended up with a total bust in Bagley, which is why they are the Kings.
Bagley was a freshman in high school when I was a junior, and went to a high school like 25 mins away. My basketball team and I would go watch him play occasionally and he was just insane. Then he went to duke who I root for (parents met there) and I was convinced he was gonna be a star
And it is not just those 3. Simmons and Russilo did a redraft on a recent pod. Neither had Bagley in the top 10, and that's hardly a hot take. In addition to Luka, Trae and Ayton you have SGA, Porter, JJJ, Mikal Bridges and Sexton. Would you rather have Bagley or Kevin Huerter ? Miles Bridges? Grayson Allen? Timelord? Mitchell Robinson?
He's trying his hardest to get traded and they refuse. He's been hurt a ton, but he's had some flashes.
I'm not questioning the dirty rep at all. I don't really follow stuff like that and take folks word for it generally (here anyway). Just thought it was funny that the clip posted was at least 16 years ago. Then another clip was posted with like 5 NBA ball punches.
I don't care about the flops. For the life of me I'll never understand why people lump nutshots and flops into the same category (or post). Frankly, if I were a mid tier NBA player or worse like Bev or Smart and played guys like Trae, Joel, and Harden that you can't fucking breathe on without them getting 14 FTA a game, I'd use that tool from my toolbox at every opportunity (flopping). Stars hate it, so what.
Would Bagley’s salary ($11,312,114) fit into what’s left of the Hayward trade exception (I’ve seen both $28.5 and $28.6M) after the Fournier acquisition (reported as $17/17.15/17.45M)?
Precisely.
Patrick Beverley is "dirty" and nobody is defending his actions - but there is a reason that he will have made $64mm playing in the NBA after his current contract expires and played in big playoff games, guarding superstar players after clawing his way into the league at age 24.
People may not like it but there is a market for his skillset in the NBA and if these last few rounds have shown anything, its that there is significant value in a player who can do whatever it takes to muck up opposing players games and sets. I understand some tactics are too far but if my goal is winning, I am taking those players on my side as they can be very effective depending on the context. Again, I get that others hate this part of the sport and don't think its necessary. However there is a reason these guys are not only getting paid but also run.
Sportrac has it at 11.05 left over
Trade Exception $28,500,000
($11,050,000) Gordon Hayward trade with CHA, (Evan Fournier, $17,450,000) 11/29/2021
Yeah, I think Luka/Trae are in an elite class as top guys ready to lead a team far right now, and Ayton is a different type of player who isn't maybe as offensively gifted as Luka/Trae but is clearly good enough to be a key player on a title team. SGA has been great so far in his career, MPJ and JJJ have franchise player potential. Sexton just averaged 24 ppg on decent efficiency and he didn't even crack the Top 10 of their redraft.
Totally fair -- you're right that I equated them, forgetting that generally I make your very point -- I'm so confused I forget to even agree with myself!
Even last night with CP3's obvious flop, it is true that Cousins did unnecessarily throw out his elbow even if it didn't hit Paul, so deserved that T he got...and certainly that T wouldn't have been called if CP3 hadn't dramatized it.That's a totally different thing than dirty plays. Pat Beverly was being defended in this thread -- I think Dejesus said he "loved" him after the head bash on Ayton (which only the most naive of people would think was incidental) -- but I just don't get that. Bev had a few good years because he had some basketball skills -- very good defense, good passer, and can hit the open shot. The dirtiness has nothing to do with it -- as someone who has followed the Clippers for years he's been a net negative for a while now, exacerbated not ameliorated by his consistently dirty play. And if teams need players like him to advance...well why have the Clippers never advanced despite having lots of star power alongside what Bev brings to the table? It's intensity channeled in a bad way, which is why punk players like Beverly tend to be losers (Bill Laimbeer being an exception). Beverly has definitely never helped the Clipper cause; in fact, in recent years his dirty play has been part of hurting the Clipper cause and partly negating those declining skills he still brings to the table.
I mean you can't really plan for injuries. If Bagley hadn't had all those knee injuries I would far rather have him than all but a handful of guys from '18. But bad luck's a thing.
Why are we combining dirty plays with player value? The reason Beverley and others stick around is because they're good basketball players. You can be a good basketball player who crosses the line from time to time. Teams are never going to let that get in the way since it's just something you have to manage. As we all know, most professional sports franchises will tolerate almost anything if the guy is good.
Thanks for the confirmation. I guess that, as with the Kemba trade, a Bagley acquisition would need to happen during the current NBA fiscal year. Get it done, Theo!
Giannis (as expected) and Trae both officially ruled out for Game 5 tonight. I think it's probably the right call to keep Trae out for a non-elimination game if he's not at least 90%; only if they become desperate should the Hawks turn to him and see what he can eke out of his ankle.
Why do teams "officially" have to rule players out? Like what would happen if they "officially" rule Trae out and then late in the fourth quarter, needing a three, they bring him into the game? In the NFL if a player is listed as "out" he is not allowed to play. Is there some rule in the NBA? And if so, why would you ever "officially" rule Trae out? Why not say, we don't expect him to play but in an emergency it's possible?
Shooting 23-51 (.451) from deep so far, with a chance at a 40/50/90 postseason. Good excuse to post this all time great draft interview, Coby White knew...
View: https://youtu.be/XukBLPLh-rQ
You have to set an active roster before the game.
Since the NBA started getting into bed with gambling, they have been serious about injury reports and have fined teams for not being honest.
Thanks...helpful. So the question is....weighing risk vs reward...is it better to keep Young active in the very off chance you’ll use him in the last minute of a close game, or better to keep your 12th man - who you won’t use at all except in the case of a blowout - active?
Here's the thing: even the bench guys on NBA teams are awesome at basketball. And all but a very few of them would be elite, elite college players (well, all of them would be right NOW; some weren't when they were in college). Compared with the stars, they look pretty bad. But when playing against other bench guys, it's an even matchup and they suddenly look pretty good. I mean, when we watch elite college teams play, we think that's really good basketball. Well, this is kind of that. It's still awesome. What would suck is if we ended up with one team that had all its stars go up against a team that has all its stars gone. That's not fun to watch.
The whole thread here surrounding Beverly has got pretty twisted and has kind of changed from what the original argument was.
Beverley in his prime was a defensive pest and a decent PG. Yes, he was dirty but he provided utility other than that. Players like that will definitely get paid
The Beverley of this year has lost a step and has seemingly become a worse shooter. He’s currently not a very good player and his dirtiness/antics almost entirely overshadow his other contributions.
Tony C’s original post was in response to you saying you loved watching him play…and I have to agree with him. The current version of Beverley is a clown who seems like he’s trying to become an even more heightened version of himself, complete with crazy outsized reactions and taunts to literally everything, to make up for his loss of skill.
Atlanta is struggling mightily here and its not all the Bucks D - they are missing quite a few open looks and easy takes.
I mentioned this in the betting thread. Classic exhale game after the overachieving effort without their star.
Good call. I would just assume that being on the road without their best player would make winning this game a tall order. If both Giannis and Trae sit on Saturday, I would expect Atlanta to win at home but its simply my lazy analysis.
Yes, good call.
I didn't watch the game but I assume that one thing that really helps MIL is that Lopez is a lot more playable against ATL without Trae Young.
I will forever hate Huerter for failing to get to just 10 points and thus ruining my 7 bet same game parlay.
Lopez def becomes a factor without Trae but Giannis’ absence also allows Jrue to be much more involved in the offense which makes up for a lot of what Giannis brings on many (not all, but many) nights.
Yeah, this is completely insane. Never seen a conference finals remotely close to this. The healthy Wizards would be favored over either of these two, right?
If Brown doesn't get hurt there's a decent chance the Celtics are playing in the NBA finals
If they had the same path as the Suns, sure. Against a healthy Nets team (and they were healthy for round 1), they wouldn't have had more than a puncher's chance even if Brown/Kemba/TL were all healthy.