Pats QB Options

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JM3

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Looking back from 2021, through the lens of how the Chiefs have been the last few years with Mahomes, it may be hard to remember. But no one thought that team was winning a Super Bowl with Alex Smith, including Andy Reid and KC management.
I'm not really weighing in on the general premise. Was just looking at the odds for fun.

The Chiefs started that season beating the Patriots 42-27 @ Foxboro, then beat the Eagles 27-20 in week 2 on their way to a 5-0 start. I'm sure they thought of themselves at SB contenders at some point.

& there's no reason for the Eagles to think they were more likely to win the SB than the Chiefs in the preseason that year, & they did win the SB, so I guess I don't really understand the point?
 

tims4wins

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Jimmy is going to sit out and threaten to not earn $25M? Yeah no. He doesn't have leverage.

Edit: also, if the 2017 Chiefs didn't view themselves as contenders, why did they never give Mahomes a chance to play? His only appearance was a week 17 start with the Chiefs having wrapped up their division and locked into a Wild Card home game.
 

BusRaker

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Are there really that many impact FA's still out there for SF to want to shed their security blanket that is Jimmy G to spend on?
 

simplyeric

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This is a very reasonable line of inquiry. My response would be, in short, because the alternative appears to be Cam Newton.

edit: I mean, if the Pats had a decent option, we would not be having a months-long discussion about Jimmy G. But as flawed as he may be, he knows the system and he's worlds better than Newton.
Some might arrgues that it's a choice between
15-16 games of Cam, who might have promise in a heavy offensive set that might allow him to succeed
or
8 games of JG, 8 games of Stidham (or some other ratio of games)

I can't imagine that BB really covets JG. Such an unknown in terms of playing time. Why set yourself up for that?
 

scott bankheadcase

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Are there really that many impact FA's still out there for SF to want to shed their security blanket that is Jimmy G to spend on?
There are literally none. And even with Jimmy they have 20m left under the cap.

They will have to extend Fred Warner at some point, but the cap goes up next year and they can get out of Jimmy's contract then.
 

tims4wins

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Are there really that many impact FA's still out there for SF to want to shed their security blanket that is Jimmy G to spend on?
I may be wrong but I think the argument is more that they could roll the cap room over to 2022, when they really need it.
 

Captaincoop

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Some might arrgues that it's a choice between
15-16 games of Cam, who might have promise in a heavy offensive set that might allow him to succeed
or
8 games of JG, 8 games of Stidham (or some other ratio of games)

I can't imagine that BB really covets JG. Such an unknown in terms of playing time. Why set yourself up for that?
Stidham probably won't be on the roster at all. I'd imagine they are going to draft a developmental quarterback somewhere in the draft no matter what.

Also, this assumption that Jimmy G will automatically be hurt and miss 8 games when he has no existing injury to worry about...Maybe, but I'd say it's a safer assumption that Cam will continue sucking at throwing a football.
 

Cellar-Door

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Stidham probably won't be on the roster at all. I'd imagine they are going to draft a developmental quarterback somewhere in the draft no matter what.

Also, this assumption that Jimmy G will automatically be hurt and miss 8 games when he has no existing injury to worry about...Maybe, but I'd say it's a safer assumption that Cam will continue sucking at throwing a football.
I don't know that it's an assumption, but... Jimmy has been in SF for 4 years and played 31 games... 16 of those in 1 year... so 3 years out of 4 he played 6 games or less. He has almost no history of being able to play a full season, and in the one season he was penciled in to start 4 games for NE, he didn't even finish game 2. Jimmy G is about as good a case for injury prone being a trait as there is in NFL QBs.
 

JCizzle

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All these posts with reasons for the 49ers to shed JG (and his contract) read to me as though they have an undercurrent of wish-fulfillment to them.

So, if they can't win a Super Bowl with him, or they can't count on him to stay healthy for a full season, or he wouldn't be happy as a placeholder or competing for a job ... my question would be:

Why should the Patriots want him? Because he showed promise with them briefly five years ago (before getting hurt)? Because he was a binky? Because they shouldn't have traded him in the first place?

Why is there are reason to believe thathe would be any more than he's shown at SF if he were to return to the Patriots?
I think the idea of Jimmy has been romanticized by some portion of Patriots fans. He's a fine QB and looks really good at times with the quick release, but he's also usually good for 2-3 boneheaded plays per game. Still less than a rookie QB, which is why I think he'll be kept for the year and cut afterwards.

I know every QB has bad throws, but the throw at the minute 4:59 mark led to Kyle basically putting him on a leash for the rest of the playoff run. Just an awful throw in that situation.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMJVlo2h104&ab_channel=NFL
 
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DourDoerr

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I think the idea of a QB floor (I believe it was mentioned above) is helpful to understand SF’s motives for keeping JG this year. To win - and I absolutely think the Niner FO believes it can win with this roster - the team must get average to above average QB play. They already know they can get good results from JG in this system. He’s their floor. If their draftee can beat him out, great - now we have vet insurance of good QB play for a contending roster. If JG beats out the draftee in camp, then great, you have a vet capable of winning games backed up by a talented rookie who you‘d guess might deliver if summoned upon.

I think this pretty simple. Last year made it clear to this organization that injuries happen and can derail a team’s chances. It’s year by year and they have an enviable position at QB this year.
 

simplyeric

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Stidham probably won't be on the roster at all. I'd imagine they are going to draft a developmental quarterback somewhere in the draft no matter what.

Also, this assumption that Jimmy G will automatically be hurt and miss 8 games when he has no existing injury to worry about...Maybe, but I'd say it's a safer assumption that Cam will continue sucking at throwing a football.
I’m not ‘assuming’ he’s get hurt. But do you think BB thinks about it? I bet he does.
And I am still in the camp that thinks that Cam will be a lot better this year than last, after a full off season, fully recovered from Covid, amd with a much improved offense and online rhat can play to his strengths (which includes his feet and his general durability).
Cam doesn’t have to be CAM!! He just has to be not-dogshit-Cam.
 

DJnVa

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I would assume BB has had preliminary phone calls with Atlanta and Cincy--I mean, they went to Trevor Lawrence's pro day. They do due diligence.
 

Captaincoop

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I’m not ‘assuming’ he’s get hurt. But do you think BB thinks about it? I bet he does.
And I am still in the camp that thinks that Cam will be a lot better this year than last, after a full off season, fully recovered from Covid, amd with a much improved offense and online rhat can play to his strengths (which includes his feet and his general durability).
Cam doesn’t have to be CAM!! He just has to be not-dogshit-Cam.
Ah, yes, the full Covid recovery. Because among the side effects of asymptomatic Covid is the inability to throw a football without winding up your whole body. And it strikes the patient weeks before the virus does.

Less jerky - Cam has been non-dogshit once in the last 5 years. We should pretty much count on him being dogshit at this point.
 

simplyeric

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Ah, yes, the full Covid recovery. Because among the side effects of asymptomatic Covid is the inability to throw a football without winding up your whole body. And it strikes the patient weeks before the virus does.

Less jerky - Cam has been non-dogshit once in the last 5 years. We should pretty much count on him being dogshit at this point.
People have commented that he seemed reasonably effective at the beginning of last season, and yeah I think Covid can definitely have lingering effect on fitness, decision making, etc.
Now, ok, I could be just trying to rose-tint it, I get it.

But what we're going to need Cam to do is to make the d-line protect against the run option including the QB, and be able to throw to RB's and TE's in the flats and crossing, and occasionally a longer ball., no?
Obviously, BB might commit to a hot young prospect in the draft because traditionally a team needs a franchise QB. But I think BB hates that model and would love to prove it at least somewhat wrong. All we need os for Cam to throw the ball better than final-season Peyton Manning. I think that's a possibility.
 

DJnVa

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Cam got COVID week 4.

Pre: 68% completion, 238 yards/game passing, 50 yards/game rushing, 2/2 TD/INT, 4 rushing TD (1.3/game)
Post: 65% completion, 162 yards/game passing, 36 yards/game rushing, 6/8 TD/INT, 8 rushing TD (.67/game)
First 3 games back: 63% completion, 143 yards/game passing, 50 yards/game rushing, 0/5 TD/INT, 2 rushing TD (.5/game)

There's a clear drop-off. I have no doubt it's not all attributable to COVID, but it's there.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I'm really hoping they put out an MIT EDX course on understanding the NFL salary cap
Miguel basically does it already.

I would say that about half the time I feel like I want to respond on a cap discussion, at its core it usually comes down to one of the following two points:

1. All cap savings carries over so a dollar not spent this year gives you an extra dollar to spend next year (or later).
2. In order to free up a dollar this year, you probably need to borrow at least a dollar (and usually more) from a year or more in the future.
 

Captaincoop

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Cam got COVID week 4.

Pre: 68% completion, 238 yards/game passing, 50 yards/game rushing, 2/2 TD/INT, 4 rushing TD (1.3/game)
Post: 65% completion, 162 yards/game passing, 36 yards/game rushing, 6/8 TD/INT, 8 rushing TD (.67/game)
First 3 games back: 63% completion, 143 yards/game passing, 50 yards/game rushing, 0/5 TD/INT, 2 rushing TD (.5/game)

There's a clear drop-off. I have no doubt it's not all attributable to COVID, but it's there.
He showed all of the same warts and issues against Vegas in week 3 as he did later in the year.

The numbers for the first three games look better because he was really good against Seattle. He threw the ball great that day. For whatever reason, that was an outlier and he never really performed that way again.
 

Dr. Gonzo

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He showed all of the same warts and issues against Vegas in week 3 as he did later in the year.

The numbers for the first three games look better because he was really good against Seattle. He threw the ball great that day. For whatever reason, that was an outlier and he never really performed that way again.
Edelman was also healthy for the Seattle game and did nothing the following few weeks before getting surgery. You reference the Oakland game. The leading receiver was Burkhead, 7 catches for 49 yards. Next? Harry, two catches for 34 yards.

The lack of weapons last year make it impossible to judge, in my opinion. Throw in no preseason/training camp, as well as COVID, and it is a miracle they got to seven wins. Yes, Cam did have some cringe inducing throws but the pass catching talent around him was simply putrid. Health will always be the determining factor in success but with the o line, upgraded weapons, and a somewhat normal season, I expect Cam to have a much better season.
 

DourDoerr

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He showed all of the same warts and issues against Vegas in week 3 as he did later in the year.

The numbers for the first three games look better because he was really good against Seattle. He threw the ball great that day. For whatever reason, that was an outlier and he never really performed that way again.
I’d add that scouting contributed to the season decline too. Once teams knew tendencies with this system, they were able to take away some areas.

That said, I do think there’s a good chance Cam performs better this year as he may be able to widen his tendencies with the better talent.
 

Cellar-Door

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I don't think anyone expects Cam to be an elite QB ever again.
I do think there is reason to think that a year in the system, time removed from having COVID, and moving from likely the worst receving options in the league to averagish options could make him a nice option for his very modest salary.
I mean, I'd much rather have Cam on his salary than Jimmy G at $25M for example. Neither is a guy I would expect to be the long term solution here. I hope we can draft a QB to fill that role, but until then... Cam has some dual threat upside in this offense.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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Cam's problems were not simply weapons or bad throws. He was a drive killer with bad decisions, coupled with upwards of 30 batted passes at the line of scrimmage and 30+ sacks taken. The amount of plays / drives he destroyed by his indecision or mistakes were way worse than his inaccuracy (which in itself was a serious problem). Cam's awfulness cannot be overstated.
 

Cellar-Door

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Cam's problems were not simply weapons or bad throws. He was a drive killer with bad decisions, coupled with upwards of 30 batted passes at the line of scrimmage and 30+ sacks taken. The amount of plays / drives he destroyed by his indecision or mistakes were way worse than his inaccuracy (which in itself was a serious problem). Cam's awfulness cannot be overstated.
yes it can, and has been many times on this forum. He was a bad starting QB, he was not any more awful than many other bad starting NFL QBs. You just have been spoiled by getting to watch almost 2 decades of an all-time great
 

JM3

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Cam's problems were not simply weapons or bad throws. He was a drive killer with bad decisions, coupled with upwards of 30 batted passes at the line of scrimmage and 30+ sacks taken. The amount of plays / drives he destroyed by his indecision or mistakes were way worse than his inaccuracy (which in itself was a serious problem). Cam's awfulness cannot be overstated.
"Upwards of 30" batted balls at the line is quite the claim. The team had a total of 10 in 2020. The Cardinals led the league with 14.

Cam indeed was sacked 31 times, which was tied for 11th in the league.

Apropos of nothing, I found it striking how similar Cam's 2020 basic stats were to Lamar Jackson's - except getting smoked 26 to 8 in TD passes.

https://stathead.com/football/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=NewtCa00&p1yrfrom=2020&player_id1=JackLa00&p2yrfrom=2020&sum=0&request=1
 

Harry Hooper

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I don't know that it's an assumption, but... Jimmy has been in SF for 4 years and played 31 games... 16 of those in 1 year... so 3 years out of 4 he played 6 games or less. He has almost no history of being able to play a full season, and in the one season he was penciled in to start 4 games for NE, he didn't even finish game 2. Jimmy G is about as good a case for injury prone being a trait as there is in NFL QBs.
Including the 2017 season when JimmyG didn't get to the 49ers until November is a bit much. The legit durability questions for him don't need that kind of distortion.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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"Upwards of 30" batted balls at the line is quite the claim. The team had a total of 10 in 2020. The Cardinals led the league with 14.

Cam indeed was sacked 31 times, which was tied for 11th in the league.

Apropos of nothing, I found it striking how similar Cam's 2020 basic stats were to Lamar Jackson's - except getting smoked 26 to 8 in TD passes.

https://stathead.com/football/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=NewtCa00&p1yrfrom=2020&player_id1=JackLa00&p2yrfrom=2020&sum=0&request=1
JJ Watt batted down 4 by himself, Houston 5 in total in that game. I believe the two interceptions in the SF game were both deflected. I can't find the stat so maybe you're right, but my recollection is a whole lot higher than 10.
 

JM3

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JJ Watt batted down 4 by himself, Houston 5 in total in that game. I believe the two interceptions in the SF game were both deflected. I can't find the stat so maybe you're right, but my recollection is a whole lot higher than 10.
Here's the Pro Football Reference page (it's under the accuracy tab):

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/passing_advanced.htm

Was looking at team stats before, but found the player ones now. Shows Cam with 9. May be some other #s in there to bolster your case of Cam's badness, though lol.
 

Cellar-Door

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JJ Watt batted down 4 by himself, Houston 5 in total in that game. I believe the two interceptions in the SF game were both deflected. I can't find the stat so maybe you're right, but my recollection is a whole lot higher than 10.
PFR has it at 9 total, so a high percentage given his low volume, but not some massive outlier.
 

Captaincoop

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The best quarterbacks in football - the top 5 type guys- threw for about 40 TDs and 10 interceptions.

Cam isn't one of those guys, fine.

The mediocre/shitty QBs like Drew Lock, Andy Dalton, Teddy Bridgewater...those guys were around 15 TDs and 8-12 interceptions.

Here's the problem - Cam wasn't as good as those guys, either.

He played an entire fucking season as a starter and passed for 8 TDs, while not only throwing 11 interceptions, but also adding some critical fumbles on top of that. Drew Lock threw for 15% more yardage than he did. And Drew Lock stinks.

He wasn't just some average/slightly below average starting quarterback. He was REALLY bad. Let's not sugarcoat this. Gardner Minshew would be an upgrade. Jimmy G would be a big upgrade. They cannot go into another season with Newton as a starter.
 

simplyeric

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Edelman was also healthy for the Seattle game and did nothing the following few weeks before getting surgery. You reference the Oakland game. The leading receiver was Burkhead, 7 catches for 49 yards. Next? Harry, two catches for 34 yards.

The lack of weapons last year make it impossible to judge, in my opinion. Throw in no preseason/training camp, as well as COVID, and it is a miracle they got to seven wins. Yes, Cam did have some cringe inducing throws but the pass catching talent around him was simply putrid. Health will always be the determining factor in success but with the o line, upgraded weapons, and a somewhat normal season, I expect Cam to have a much better season.
oh yeah he threw some passes that left me baffled. Still curious why BB kept starting him. There must be something he sees...

I don't think anyone expects Cam to be an elite QB ever again.
I do think there is reason to think that a year in the system, time removed from having COVID, and moving from likely the worst receving options in the league to averagish options could make him a nice option for his very modest salary.
I mean, I'd much rather have Cam on his salary than Jimmy G at $25M for example. Neither is a guy I would expect to be the long term solution here. I hope we can draft a QB to fill that role, but until then... Cam has some dual threat upside in this offense.
More so With this current roster than with a standard 2021-style offense. This offense is built for a modern version of ground and pound, with the strategically occasional long toss. If Cam can avoid throwing into the turf, this team could get a lot done.
 

RG33

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The best quarterbacks in football - the top 5 type guys- threw for about 40 TDs and 10 interceptions.

Cam isn't one of those guys, fine.

The mediocre/shitty QBs like Drew Lock, Andy Dalton, Teddy Bridgewater...those guys were around 15 TDs and 8-12 interceptions.

Here's the problem - Cam wasn't as good as those guys, either.

He played an entire fucking season as a starter and passed for 8 TDs, while not only throwing 11 interceptions, but also adding some critical fumbles on top of that. Drew Lock threw for 15% more yardage than he did. And Drew Lock stinks.

He wasn't just some average/slightly below average starting quarterback. He was REALLY bad. Let's not sugarcoat this. Gardner Minshew would be an upgrade. Jimmy G would be a big upgrade. They cannot go into another season with Newton as a starter.
While I don’t disagree that Cam stunk last year, I don’t think it is looking thru Pats-fans-covered-glasses to acknowledge that Cam in the red zone was used as a runner as a primary weapon — hence his 12 rushing TDs. While this may have been the case because of his struggles throwing (or the WR/TEs’ struggles getting open or a combination of these things), that does make his numbers look more “average” than “stinks”. He accounted for 20 TDs and 11 interceptions — I’m not sure why it matters how he got them.

He still had a lousy year, but focusing on the 8 and 11 knowing what kind of offense they were running and how they were using Cam in the red zone kind of skews things in my opinion.

With that said, with significantly better WRs and TEs, a full offseason/training/preseason, one would hope that Cam could improve pretty dramatically as the QB of this offense. He doesn’t need to throw for 35 TDs for this to be an elite offense, if he throws for 15 and runs for 10-15 and limits his INTs, this will be an elite offense and he will be a very capable QB for this team (assuming a pretty dominant rushing game overall).
 

Captaincoop

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I hear what you're saying, but I'm being intentional in not giving him credit for short yardage TDs that a running back could have carried in.

I don't recall him breaking off many 10+ yard TD runs from outside that short yardage area, but maybe my memory is off.

Of course we hope he'll be better with some better receivers, but it's a real reach to think we can win playoff games with his arm, especially against good teams in games where we're behind and have to throw.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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While I don’t disagree that Cam stunk last year, I don’t think it is looking thru Pats-fans-covered-glasses to acknowledge that Cam in the red zone was used as a runner as a primary weapon — hence his 12 rushing TDs. While this may have been the case because of his struggles throwing (or the WR/TEs’ struggles getting open or a combination of these things), that does make his numbers look more “average” than “stinks”. He accounted for 20 TDs and 11 interceptions — I’m not sure why it matters how he got them.

He still had a lousy year, but focusing on the 8 and 11 knowing what kind of offense they were running and how they were using Cam in the red zone kind of skews things in my opinion.

With that said, with significantly better WRs and TEs, a full offseason/training/preseason, one would hope that Cam could improve pretty dramatically as the QB of this offense. He doesn’t need to throw for 35 TDs for this to be an elite offense, if he throws for 15 and runs for 10-15 and limits his INTs, this will be an elite offense and he will be a very capable QB for this team (assuming a pretty dominant rushing game overall).
The only game that Cam”s rushing made any meaningful difference was the first Miami game. Pointing to the rushing touchdowns as somehow bring equivalent to TD passes is ridiculous.
 

Captaincoop

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I just checked - 10 of the 12 rushing touchdowns were inside the 5 yard line, many were just sneaks. One was from the 9, and one was from the 11. Two plays total in there that an average carry from a running back wouldn't punch in.
 

nighthob

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I don't think anyone expects Cam to be an elite QB ever again.
I do think there is reason to think that a year in the system, time removed from having COVID, and moving from likely the worst receving options in the league to averagish options could make him a nice option for his very modest salary.
Let's be honest, the 2020 Patriots had the seventh best receiving corps in the ACC.
 

Cellar-Door

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The best quarterbacks in football - the top 5 type guys- threw for about 40 TDs and 10 interceptions.

Cam isn't one of those guys, fine.

The mediocre/shitty QBs like Drew Lock, Andy Dalton, Teddy Bridgewater...those guys were around 15 TDs and 8-12 interceptions.

Here's the problem - Cam wasn't as good as those guys, either.

He played an entire fucking season as a starter and passed for 8 TDs, while not only throwing 11 interceptions, but also adding some critical fumbles on top of that. Drew Lock threw for 15% more yardage than he did. And Drew Lock stinks.

He wasn't just some average/slightly below average starting quarterback. He was REALLY bad. Let's not sugarcoat this. Gardner Minshew would be an upgrade. Jimmy G would be a big upgrade. They cannot go into another season with Newton as a starter.
TDs is a really weird metric to use, given it has way too much to do with the talents of the rest of the offense, especially eliminating rushing TDs.
Sure a RB could hypothetically have made those runs maybe (though not for sure, a running QB changes the math) but at the same time, a lot of QB TDs are short throws that are made because you can't or choose not to run it in. A Cam 4 yard TD run is not any less valuable than a Bridgewater 4 yard TD swing pass, you shouldn't punish a QB for getting TDs in a safer more efficient way because he has a talent that the other QB does not.

Looking at Minshew, he had 6 inside the 11 4 inside the 5. It 100% does not matter whether you score on a run or a pass. If anything scoring on 2-3 runs once you get inside the 20 instead of 1 pass is probably better for an offense, so long as you score.

I also am not so sure about Jimmy G. If you're worried about INTs, Jimmy last year had a much higher INT% than Cam.

We get it you hate Cam, and you hate the idea of a dual threat QB who isn't an explosive passer, but QB rushing has value, and "passing TDs" have no more value than rushing TDs. Cam was bad, he was better than Drew Lock by a lot. He threw for less yards because he threw less. However, he was more effective in gaining yards on the passes he threw, he threw picks at a lower rate, he fumbled less, and he added 400+ extra yards on the ground (and also arguably improved our RB performance).
 

Auger34

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View: https://twitter.com/BrettKollmann/status/1376354377548492800

The major SF guys are going to Mac Jones' pro-day instead of Fields. Probably means 1 of 3 things:
1. They have good intel the Jets are taking Fields at 2
2. They are locked in to Lance or Wilson at 3
3. They are actually considering Mac Jones at 3.

I bet it's #2, but crazier things have happened.
Shanahan knows more about QB’s than just about anyone alive but...it would be absolutely crazy if they gave up all of this capital in order to take Mac Jones. The same Mac Jones who a good portion of people thought wasn’t worth the 15th pick
 

simplyeric

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I hear what you're saying, but I'm being intentional in not giving him credit for short yardage TDs that a running back could have carried in.
I just checked - 10 of the 12 rushing touchdowns were inside the 5 yard line, many were just sneaks. One was from the 9, and one was from the 11. Two plays total in there that an average carry from a running back wouldn't punch in.
Remember when we lost that super bowl to Seattle because it was just so easy for Lynch to go into beast mode and punch it in for the TD?
It was totally automatic! Lynch’s short yardage TD run stats clearly demonstrate that he was a lock to score on that short td run.
Oh was could have been...
 

axx

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Shanahan knows more about QB’s than just about anyone alive but...it would be absolutely crazy if they gave up all of this capital in order to take Mac Jones. The same Mac Jones who a good portion of people thought wasn’t worth the 15th pick
The talk is that all 5 guys will be gone by 12. So if you want one of them you need to trade up. I tend to believe it's for Lance and Jimmy G will be SF's QB for the entire season. Well until he gets hurt.
 

Captaincoop

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Remember when we lost that super bowl to Seattle because it was just so easy for Lynch to go into beast mode and punch it in for the TD?
It was totally automatic! Lynch’s short yardage TD run stats clearly demonstrate that he was a lock to score on that short td run.
Oh was could have been...
Remember when we lost to Seattle this year because Cam couldn't run it in from the one inch line?
 

Hendu for Kutch

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Nashua, NH
Remember when we lost to Seattle this year because Cam couldn't run it in from the one inch line?
How about the Seattle game before that?

[TH]4[/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH]4[/TH] [TH]4[/TH] [TH]4[/TH] [TH]4[/TH] [TH]4[/TH] [TH]4[/TH] [TH]4[/TH] [TH]4[/TH]
0:43 1 2 SEA 2 Tom Brady middle for 1 yard (tackle by Jarran Reed and Tony McDaniel) 31 24 6.740 0.000
0:37 Timeout #3 by Seattle Seahawks 31 24 0.000 -5.910
0:37 2 1 SEA 1 LeGarrette Blount middle for no gain (tackle by Kam Chancellor) 31 24 5.910 0.000
0:19 Timeout #1 by New England Patriots 31 24 0.000 -5.170
0:19 3 1 SEA 1 Tom Brady for no gain. Tom Brady fumbles, recovered by Tom Brady at SEA-2 31 24 5.170 0.000
0:14 Timeout #2 by New England Patriots 31 24 0.000 -3.250
0:14 4 2 SEA 2 Penalty on SEA: Defensive 12 On-field, 1 yards (no play) 31 24 3.250 3.550
0:14 4 1 SEA 1 Tom Brady pass incomplete short left intended for Rob Gronkowski 31 24 3.550 0.380
 

simplyeric

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 14, 2006
14,037
Richmond, VA
Remember when we lost to Seattle this year because Cam couldn't run it in from the one inch line?
Point being: TD’s aren’t always easy, even for marquis RB’s or GOAT qb’s. If Cam gets tds on his feet, when he’s so obviously incapable as a passer, then he should get some credit for them.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,386
It’s crazy to not give him credit for rushing TDs. All TDs are worth the same. He shouldn’t get credit for them as a passer but as an overall player.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,850
What's awesome is that it is exceedingly likely we'll figure out if a better team around him and an offseason of learning playbook, etc. makes a difference. Then we can stop arguing about it.
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
14,012
Mansfield MA
The Patriots offense has been on a four-year decline. They had the best offense in the league in 2017.
2017: 2.61 points per drive (1st)
2018: 2.27 (8th)
2019: 1.97 (17th)
2020: 1.92 (24th)

The offense, all in all, was not really much worse than it was in 2019. The receivers keep getting worse. This year they should be better. We'll see with Cam; he wasn't the whole problem last year, but he was part of the problem.
 
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