Fournier to Celtics (old thread bumped)

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Auger34

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So I read two "grade the trade"s on this deal and one gave the Celtics a C-, and the other a B+. I don't get it. We don't need second-round picks with all the guys on the roster now who need development time. So we get to try out Fournier for about 30 games to see whether he's a good fit for the future, and if so, resign him. He may not be great defensively, but he's fine on offense. Trade seems like a clear "A" to me.
Was the C from Zach Harper at The Athletic? If it was, that was one of the stranger recaps I’ve read. He seems to like the trade and the acquisition cost...and then randomly gives out a C as a grade
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Interestingly, some of Fournier's incentive get changed from unlikely to likely based on this trade, since Boston went further in the playoffs than Orlando last year. Per Spotrac:
$150k likely Playoffs 1st Round (at least 60 reg-games and 75% of postseason), $150k likely Playoffs 2nd Round, $150k likely Conference Finals, raises to $500k Championship (triggered likely with ORL-BOS trade for Rd1-Conf Finals)
I think that's an extra $300,000 towards the cap since the Celtics made it an extra two rounds further than the Magic, right?
 

ZMart100

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I think it goes towards the trade amount (in this case, how much trade exception is eaten up) but it won't accrue to the tax when that gets calculated if it isn't earned this season. If that 60 game thing is right, then that is one more place the Cs might hope to gain space under the tax. Fournier has played 26 games for Orlando this season and the Celtics have 28 games left.
 

Burkharts Uppercut

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So Javonte's 1.5m salary was a much bigger portion of the salary dump than Theis-Wagner/Kornet exchange alone. Had they simply declined Javonte's option five weeks ago, it looks like the Theis trade would have not been necessary to get under the Luxury tax. Kind of a bummer to look at through the lens of sending out Theis to dump Javonte's min salary, unless they really like Wagner.
 
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HowBoutDemSox

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I think it goes towards the trade amount (in this case, how much trade exception is eaten up) but it won't accrue to the tax when that gets calculated if it isn't earned this season. If that 60 game thing is right, then that is one more place the Cs might hope to gain space under the tax. Fournier has played 26 games for Orlando this season and the Celtics have 28 games left.
So it would be the same for Smart's likely to be earned incentives, right? That's another $500,000 determined by body fat check-ins that they might have a sense of whether he'll make or not based on where he's been thus far (check ins are in October 1, December 1, April 1).
 

ZMart100

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So it would be the same for Smart's likely to be earned incentives, right? That's another $500,000 determined by body fat check-ins that they might have a sense of whether he'll make or not based on where he's been thus far (check ins are in October 1, December 1, April 1).
I would imagine so, but I'm not certain. The bottom line for me is this trade doesn't really make sense unless the C's know they are under the luxury tax at the end of it. The reporting of the trade terms and contract terms isn't always spot on though.
 

HomeRunBaker

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He's light years better than Smart offensively, so I'd hope he's starting. It's not like Marcus has been locking people down defensively this year to justify a starting role.
Brad is not going to piss off his best players by sending Smart to the bench for a guy in an expiring contract. This would be a massive leadership fail which I can’t imagine happening without injuries, load mgmt, etc allowing Fournier into the starting lineup.
 

benhogan

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Brad is not going to piss off his best players by sending Smart to the bench for a guy in an expiring contract. This would be a massive leadership fail which I can’t imagine happening without injuries, load mgmt, etc allowing Fournier into the starting lineup.
Fournier is that bench scorer this team has needed for years. Smart stays in the starting lineup. EF moves into the starting lineup when Kemba is out (Marcus to PG)

Rob William's ready to be a starter/finisher, the 2-BIG nonsense is over.

starters: TL/JB/JT/MS/KW
rotation: EF/TT/PP

deep bench: Semi/Grant/Nesmith/Langford/MW
never play: Carsen/Kornet/Tacko/Tre
 

McBride11

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I immediately thought of Fournier's gangGREEN. I have the maturity of a 12 year old. M11 gets it, I'll bet.
hahah. just catching up and 1000% the first thing that came to mind. If he sent random fans down that picture rabbit hole I am in love.
of course now im dreading my call week coming up
 

dymjp

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As a doctor all I can think of are the possible nicknames for Fournier Gang-“Green”(gangrene). Google it. It’s perfect.
 

Imbricus

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If he sent random fans down that picture rabbit hole I am in love.
Yeah I was Googling him, and came across "how to treat Fournier's gangrene," and for a fleeting instant thought, "What? This guy's got gangrene?" ... so obviously I don't work in the medical field. :)
 

peritas

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Ugh. Let’s move on.
I think he is a solid pickup.
We need one of the young players to step up.
 

peritas

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Fournier is that bench scorer this team has needed for years. Smart stays in the starting lineup. EF moves into the starting lineup when Kemba is out (Marcus to PG)

Rob William's ready to be a starter/finisher, the 2-BIG nonsense is over.

starters: TL/JB/JT/MS/KW
rotation: EF/TT/PP

deep bench: Semi/Grant/Nesmith/Langford/MW
never play: Carsen/Kornet/Tacko/Tre
I think the key to next year is to see Langford or Nesmith become rotation worthy players. Semi and Grant should not play much, if at all.
 

pjheff

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starters: TL/JB/JT/MS/KW
rotation: EF/TT/PP

deep bench: Semi/Grant/Nesmith/Langford/MW
never play: Carsen/Kornet/Tacko/Tre
While PP is pretty certain to see the floor on the second night of back-to-backs when Kemba sits, I think he is far from a guarantee to see rotation minutes in the other games.
 

benhogan

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While PP is pretty certain to see the floor on the second night of back-to-backs when Kemba sits, I think he is far from a guarantee to see rotation minutes in the other games.
Fournier will be the first off the bench (when not starting) but I see PP getting rotated in both the first half and 2nd half when Kemba or Smart come out. Brad likes to use his bench, play his double PGs and go small. 15-20mpg wouldn't shock me, unless Romeo comes back and blows us away (not holding my breath on that).

How do you see PP getting used?
 

Reardon's Beard

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PP is getting minutes even if everyone healthy. Maybe less minutes, sure, but he's already shown capable as a backup PG and glimpses of starter potential. TL getting more minutes is going to be huge for this team.
 

pjheff

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How do you see PP getting used?
I think Pritchard is the default backup PG for the back-to-back games when Walker is out of the lineup, and I'd expect him to play 18-20 minutes on those occasions. But I don't think that is going to be handed those 20 minutes when Stevens has a full roster at his disposal; rather, it will depend on matchups as well as his productivity on both ends compared to Ojeleye and GWilliams.
 

lovegtm

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I think Pritchard is the default backup PG for the back-to-back games when Walker is out of the lineup, and I'd expect him to play 18-20 minutes on those occasions. But I don't think that is going to be handed those 20 minutes when Stevens has a full roster at his disposal; rather, it will depend on matchups as well as his productivity on both ends compared to Ojeleye and GWilliams.
It’s nice to have good players again and be able to argue about the ~5-15 back of the bench minutes again.

Reminds me of early 2019-2020, good times.
 

benhogan

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I think Pritchard is the default backup PG for the back-to-back games when Walker is out of the lineup, and I'd expect him to play 18-20 minutes on those occasions. But I don't think that is going to be handed those 20 minutes when Stevens has a full roster at his disposal; rather, it will depend on matchups as well as his productivity on both ends compared to Ojeleye and GWilliams.
Yea 20 minutes for the 8th guy for a fully healthy roster would be a lot.

I'm not expecting a fully healthy/functioning roster with the condensed schedule coming up.
 

pjheff

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It’s nice to have good players again and be able to argue about the ~5-15 back of the bench minutes again.

Reminds me of early 2019-2020, good times.
The hope is that Fournier will be a healthy, available, middle class version of Hayward who is more content as a fourth option with a sub-max contract.

Yea 20 minutes for the 8th guy for a fully healthy roster would be a lot.

I'm not expecting a fully healthy/functioning roster with the condensed schedule coming up.
Pritchard hopefully assumes Wanamaker's role with less exposure than Brad had.
 

NomarsFool

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My guess is that Langford is going to be rustier than the Titanic when he comes back. He's been out of basketball for a long time. Fournier certainly will squeeze PP's minutes, I think. What will be interesting will be how often the Celtics play small, and have JT/JB playing the "4" rather than using Grant or Semi.
 

benhogan

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The hope is that Fournier will be a healthy, available, middle class version of Hayward who is more content as a fourth option with a sub-max contract.



Pritchard hopefully assumes Wanamaker's role with less exposure than Brad had.
Well Kemba's knee is degenerative and the Door Dash guy is on a first-name basis with Marcus
 

Cesar Crespo

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My guess is that Langford is going to be rustier than the Titanic when he comes back. He's been out of basketball for a long time.
This is true but it's not as long as you'd think either. He played NBA games in September.

Well, at least I feel he's been out way longer than that.
 

pjheff

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Well Kemba's knee is degenerative and the Door Dash guy is on a first-name basis with Marcus
I understand, but of course Wanamaker was overexposed not because of guard problems but due to Hayward's injury and a lack of wing depth. Hopefully this squad remains healthy and does not have to rely heavily on the third string.
 

pjheff

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frankly, I have zero ideas how many mpg PP will play, he's just 8th in line at the moment
I agree, because he’s basically guaranteed minutes in the second game of back-to-backs when Kamba sits. I just don’t see Stevens limiting himself to an 8-man rotation at this point or relegating Ojeleye (when healthy) and GWilliams to the ”deep bench” as was suggested upthread.
 

Jimbodandy

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Huh? I love Marcus. But Kemba’s knee is literally degenerative, they don’t give guys Synvisc shots otherwise.
The door dash line was funny. I meant it as a compliment.

And I'm right there with you on the Synvisc. If you're in your 50s or older, you know someone who has had Synvisc...generally a couple of years before getting their knee swapped out for a bionic one.
 

benhogan

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I agree, because he’s basically guaranteed minutes in the second game of back-to-backs when Kamba sits. I just don’t see Stevens limiting himself to an 8-man rotation at this point or relegating Ojeleye (when healthy) and GWilliams to the ”deep bench” as was suggested upthread.
"deep bench" = guys they wouldn't need in a Game 7 elimination game

every NBA team will use their "deep bench" with this condensed schedule
 

pjheff

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"deep bench" = guys they wouldn't need in a Game 7 elimination game
If that is the definition, then I’m not sure Pritchard plays either. Stevens has a clear top seven, and Pritchard I suppose is eighth due to opportunity surrounding Walker’s status on back-to-backs, but otherwise I don’t think he has separated himself from Ojeleye or GWilliams for bench minutes on a healthy roster.
 

benhogan

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If that is the definition, then I’m not sure Pritchard plays either. Stevens has a clear top seven, and Pritchard I suppose is eighth due to opportunity surrounding Walker’s status on back-to-backs, but otherwise I don’t think he has separated himself from Ojeleye or GWilliams for bench minutes on a healthy roster.
that's fair, I think the addition of Fournier really reduces a lot of Semi/Grant minutes and effects PP less
 

TripleOT

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Pritchard is shooting 41% from three, second best on the team after, surprise, Grant Williams, and has the knack for making shots as soon as he gets in the game. He needs to be part of the rotation, preferably as the backup PG.
 

pjheff

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that's fair, I think the addition of Fournier really reduces a lot of Semi/Grant minutes and effects PP less
i think that is a distinct possibility . . . if Pritchard earns those minutes at both ends of the court. But with Smart’s positional versatility, I could just as easily see Stevens calling a healthy Ojeleye’s number for his rugged defense when his three is falling.
 

Jimbodandy

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i think that is a distinct possibility . . . if Pritchard earns those minutes at both ends of the court. But with Smart’s positional versatility, I could just as easily see Stevens calling a healthy Ojeleye’s number for his rugged defense when his three is falling.
That's fair.

I think that Pritchard offers the ability to bring the ball up against pressure, which may be more of a thing in the playoffs, to lessen the load on Kemba and Marcus. We have seen that tactic employed on Kemba at times this year for shot clock-eating purposes, but it can wear a guy down too.

I think that eighth slot will be matchup dependent for sure.
 

lexrageorge

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I don't think it's all that unusual for the 8th man in the rotation to be somewhat fungible depending upon matchups, game situation, etc. If we were to accumulate minutes played and divide by number of games over the remainder of the season, I have to believe Pritchard will indeed come up 7th or 8th just because I count at least 5 games Kemba will miss just due to the B2B's remaining on the schedule. But there will be games where PP is 9th or 10th in the rotation, not because Stevens doesn't know how to coach, but because the situation dictated it.
 

nighthob

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The door dash line was funny. I meant it as a compliment.

And I'm right there with you on the Synvisc. If you're in your 50s or older, you know someone who has had Synvisc...generally a couple of years before getting their knee swapped out for a bionic one.
In my case that person is me.
 

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Are there other NBA teams missing players because of "health and safety protocols" right now? I know Romeo has yet to play this season, but he'll almost certain be in the rotation once he's cleared. Which means Boston is missing a full third of its top nine players for COVID-related reasons, plus Kemba to rest his knee.
 

128

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Are other NBA teams missing players because of "health and safety protocols" right now? I know Romeo has yet to play this season, but he'll almost certain be in the rotation once he's cleared. Which means Boston is missing a full third of its top nine players for COVID-related reasons, plus Kemba to rest his knee.
 
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Pilgrim

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Big dent in GP, you almost have to re-sign him just to recover value.
They absolutely have to sign him to recover value anyway. Using the TPE for a half season of a guy when they have no real title hopes and are too capped to sign a different free agent this off season would be a disaster. They would have been better off not using it in-season at all.
 
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