This narrative has to stop. That shot bounces out, Philly is still FIFTEEN wins away from hanging a banner.
Gordon Hayward 2020: I'm standing here in pieces and you're having delusions of grandeur!
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Fake news!
Philly Keep Embid and Ben togther they are the ultimate duo! It's 1977 build your team around a non shooting point guard and a dominant low post guy.
Also never believe people that say Embid doesn't hustle back on d he does!
It has always seemed strange to me that a guy who literally only talked to three times during his last FA and made it seem like a personal torture chamber and already made gazillion dollars in his career would really go to somewhere like ATL just for the money or the years - as it's unlikely that they'll be in serious contention over the next couple of years.
But what do I know of what motivates these guys? Maybe at the end of the day, all GH wants to do is own a E-Sports team.
Why would the hawks trade anything for Gordon? I don't understand, what do they have to gain? Gordon wouldn't want them to give up assets to get him, why not just sign there?
They wouldn't. They might make it a S&T if the Celtics gave them a 2nd or something.
Because if you're the Hawks to get Hayward to sign there outright you're going to have to max him, which means that your entire offseason is signing Hayward and hoping to attract the necessary rolplayers. In a trade for him you get the opportunity to dump Dedmon's contract and open up the cap space for either a second significant signing or, alternatively, the ability to trade for a necessary piece using open cap space.
What if ATL is looking to spend their cap space on other free agents thus they couldn't fit Hayward in at 4/100 or whatever the number is and would need to send back salary.
Looks like they could have up to 49 million if they renounce all their guys. Rumors are Rondo and maybe KCP. But what if they want Gallo too, or Joe Harris, or Bertans.
Just spitballing here
Looks like they could have up to 49 million if they renounce all their guys. Rumors are Rondo and maybe KCP. But what if they want Gallo too, or Joe Harris, or Bertans.
Just spitballing here
That's the point, losing Dedmon and getting commitments from guys that solidify them as a playoff team might be what's necessary to get Hayward to commit there. And losing $13+ million in deadwood to sign other players goes a long way towards convincing Hayward that the Hawks are serious about winning.
Yeah.... this isn't happening. BOS isn't taking Dedmon, and the Hawks aren't trading anything of value for Hayward to dump Dedmon when they have 55M in cap space already. If there is a S&T to the Hawks (I doubt it) it'll be Gordon and a 2nd for nothing to create a TPE. And the Hawks will still have a TON of cap space.
Honestly I think the Hawks would rather have Dedmon than not. His contract doesn't hurt them this year, and is possible salary matching next year as an expiring
If you've read along you'd know that they would be giving up deadwood, if anything (most likely nothing), and likely getting something like a 2nd round pick from Boston. If the end result is exactly the same, why wouldn't Atlanta maybe dump some contract and add a 2nd rounder? It would "hard cap" them, but that's likely meaningless to them.
Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up the court for 48 minutes.
Edit: dammit. Beaten to the bakahump.
I wonder if there's any scenario where Boston tries to work something with Cleveland.
I've seen a few mocks with Toppin going to the Cavs at #5, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me given that I believe they still have Nance and Drummond on their roster going into this season. I heard one of Windhorst or Lowe mention a potential Hayward/pick for Drummond/#5 trade, and if Danny is working that hard to get into the top 5, I wonder if the downgrade from GH to Drummond from a talent POV would be worthwhile sacrifice to shore up the center position while getting the young guy he's after.
I've seen a few mocks with Toppin going to the Cavs at #5, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me given that I believe they still have Nance and Drummond on their roster going into this season. I heard one of Windhorst or Lowe mention a potential Hayward/pick for Drummond/#5 trade, and if Danny is working that hard to get into the top 5, I wonder if the downgrade from GH to Drummond from a talent POV would be worthwhile sacrifice to shore up the center position while getting the young guy he's after.
Fair, and as I've been skeptical of the ATL rumors, I guess CLE would make similarly little sense, unless there was a third team involved.
There seem to be competing theories on this board.
1) He wants to be the man
2) He wants to win
ATL offers neither of those. CLE offers one. Not sure anyone can offer both
It has been discussed here a shit-ton (imperial, not metric) for quite some time and in twitter rumors over the last week.
25% of us love the idea, and 75% hate it. Statistics mine.
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I don't think there is any indication that #1 is true, all the reporting from people who might have insight is that he would like a playoff team where he'll start.
I know it's been discussed prior, I didn't know if there was anything recent. Hayward to Indiana has been a thing for the last few years and Turner has been a target for awhile.
Seems like a perfect fit for both teams. Don't know why people would hate it for the C's.
Hayward isn't good enough to be the man on a team that competes for the title. No slight on him, because he's a fine, fine basketball player. He's just not good enough to do that.
It has come up here in the last week for sure.
And I don’t understand the anti either, but we're clearly in the minority (unless the Turner people just don't post).
He would be if LeBron was the #1. That's how good LeBron really is. Still.
Maybe the Bucks too. But point stands. He's more of a 3 now unless you happen to have one of the best players in the league.
There is a case that he was our second best player before he broke his hand and if our squad was healthy we could have won the title last year so....maybe.
I think the main reasons are, in some order, that Turner doesn't do much to solve Bam, Embiid, or Giannis feasting, doesn't set hard picks which is a core tenant of CBS' offensive system, is average from 3, and his salary means taking back another player who fits worse than himself. I think it may come down to how much an individual values shot blocking as a component in a player's defensive value. Hayward is a much better fit, even at the money.
It may also come down to whether you think that Turner is fully baked at 24 and uncoachable.
Where would Turner fall on mock draft boards now, even with the 18MM price tag.
That's just it - there's a lot of aspects to weigh here. You make a good point that at 24 he's not a completely finished product, and could benefit from the Celtics coaching staff. But there are probably other candidates with other trade scenarios that may yield a more favorable result.
I'd rather keep Hayward or use him as a chip to go out and grab WCJ+ from CHI, who has been rumored to shop him to move in the draft. But that's my own bias, and maybe I'm just not a Turner fan.
If it came down to it, would you rather have Myles Turner or have Hayward leave for nothing?
Turner, but I really doubt those are the options. that would mean Hayward was only willing to go to IND in a trade. And that if he didn't get Indy he'd go to ATL. AND that ATL/Hayward wouldn't agree to a S&T.
I'd rather Turner than Nothing.
Not sure I'd rather Turner than a 25M+ TPE.
I think we both know the answer to this is clear - we want something. My response was to your assertion that the trade is a perfect fit - which I think is at least arguable.
My general problem with Myles Turner is that he's not very good, and I don't know that I want to spend 18M on a guy who might not be one of the 2 best centers on the roster next year.
Yea this pretty much nails it.
I was in the "get Turner" camp last Summer but Theis came in did everything Myles can do but at a 1/3 of the cost. While Turner had a disappointing season
PLUS you can sign a 5 for next to nothing. Dwight Howard can whine all he wants, but the money isn't there for the classic Center. and there are lots of them available in FA and the draft.
In addition to that, Ainge/Pritchard aren't golf buddies. Indy is kind of screwed since Turner + Sabonis doesn't work on the floor. I wouldn't expect Danny to throw him a lifeline with a Hayward S&T. I'd expect Danny would say "If Turner is so good then can keep him and we'll take Sabonis for Hayward", at that point Pritchard probably slams the phone down.
if it came down to it, would you rather have Myles Turner or Victor Oladipo?
Ha! I really like Zach Lowe but I’m starting to see this guy as more like the Nate Silver of the NBA. His predictions are infotainment only.
If he's fully healthy, Oladipo wouldn't be available anyway I don't think. But him.
Hmm, Charlotte has $19 million in cap space so they'd need to do a S&T. Miles Bridges or their first rounder would be my target there. Tough to match money with Charlotte as they have Batum/Rozier/Zeller than a bunch of cheap players so it would have to be a 3-team deal.
If he‘d been fully healthy, Hayward wouldn’t be available anyway I don’t think.
I guess, but I doubt the Pacers would do that even as it stands. I doubt we get that good a player back in return for Hayward.
edit: Or a player at all, whether he leaves via FA or it's picks and a TPE.
Jordan likes him and he signed an offer sheet way back when but Utah matched it and he stayed in Utah.
Yeah he's maybe the best active basketball writer and is one of the few who can do a great breakdown of both video and analytics, but when it comes to predicting moves, he's middle of the pack. Not what I look to him for.
Then the Hawks are certainly welcome to taking on Wiggins contract for a future Golden State first or two and rolling on in hopes that there's no more eastern migration and one day they might make the playoffs.
Because Turner is owed a shitload of money and isn't terribly good. He's an MLE player getting $18 million per year. And basically a situational center at that as you need a more nimble player to soak up a lot of the C time if you're stuck with Turner.
Pritchard insists on being seen as winning trades by a large margin. So I'm pretty sure his offer is "You take our cap crap and we'll take Gordon". In a vacuum I'd rather that Hayward leave than Boston be forced to make hard tax choices because they're stuck with Turner's and Lamb's contracts and no draft picks (aside from their own) to dump the contracts into other teams' cap space.
Charlotte is an interesting scenario, and it would be hilarious if the Hornets jumped in at the last moment to add Hayward in a sign & trade sending Boston Batum's expiring and something useful in exchange (depending on who they end up drafting at #3).
It's not Turner or nothing, it's Turner plus his contract or nothing.
Sounds like to me that nothing is really happening and someone is trying to drum up something.
Marc Stein
@TheSteinLine
5m
There is a growing belief among rival teams that Atlanta will be in pole position for Danilo Gallinari and Rajon Rondo when free agency begins later this week, league sources say As @NYTSports reported on Oct. 28, Rondo is also poised to receive strong interest from the Clippers
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Perhaps there is no stalking horse.
@TheSteinLine
5m
There is a growing belief among rival teams that Atlanta will be in pole position for Danilo Gallinari and Rajon Rondo when free agency begins later this week, league sources say As @NYTSports reported on Oct. 28, Rondo is also poised to receive strong interest from the Clippers
**
Perhaps there is no stalking horse.
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