Alex Cora fired
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
I think that was more in terms of front office personnel. The Rays may make an exception to allow their bench coach to chase a promotion opportunity. Any agreement doesn't prevent Bloom from making a phone call and asking in a very nice way with lots of "pretty please's". And maybe lots of beers at the next league meetings.
I keep hearing this in the sign stealing threads but what the Yankees were fined for was not sign stealing. It was illegal use of the dugout phone. Apparently, the dugout phone use was a single call to find out whether a pitch had been a strike.
"
After the Yankees complained to MLB about the Red Sox stealing signs, Boston alleged that the Yankees pointed a YES Network camera at Red Sox bench coach Gary DiSarcina during their recent series at Yankee Stadiium. Olney reports that the Red Sox were aware of the camera from previous games and moved DiSarcina to a different spot that wouldn't pick up his signals.
MLB's investigation did not find sufficient evidence of Boston's claim, but learned during the course of their investigation that during an earlier season (prior to 2017), the Yankees violated a rule regarding the use of a dugout phone. For that violation, the Yankees were fined a lesser amount than the Red Sox, which will also be donated to Florida hurricane relief efforts."
Why not make Jason Varitek the Manager?
1. He is already with the Organization, as a special assistant involved in "major league personnel decisions, evaluations, and mentorship and instruction of young players"
2. Great Reputation
3. Would have the respect of the team
4. Red Sox Legend
5. And could bring in Big Papi, as Bench Coach and asst. coach in charge of "attitude"
Said it in the other thread but I think going outside the org is a tough move - a new coach would want his own staff - rightfully so: there's no reason to believe the current staff had any lack of confidence in Cora (especially considering, seemingly, no one spoke up if the Sox were doing anything nefarious in 2018). For the same reason, I think it's tough to promote someone on the MLB staff - tough to shake the scent of the cheating, and a lot easier to ride it out outside of the limelight of the first chair. So again, I think you look at Billy McMillon. He knows the in-house players from coaching nearly all of them at some point. He'd probably be ok with keeping the rest of the staff intact. He's not coming at a high cost. I'll bet I'm wrong, but I like him as a hire at this point.
Why #3? Because of #4? He's probably only had some spring training time with these guys, it's not like he's walking around the clubhouse making anybody's jaw drop.
Wouldn't TB have to grant permission? I wonder if that would be a problem at this time of year??
5. He has been on the fence about whether he wants to do it and spend so much time away from his family. He'd likely take a 1 year deal as a mutual tryout. Worst case is Sox get a full offseason to look for a manager next year.
Loney was last with the Dodgers in 2012. Eight years later, he seems to admit that Cora was skirting the rules back then
In Scranton?
Damn AAA teams, always pushing the envelope.
Seriously though, if they did it after the warning, I really think Manfred will find out and hammer them.
I don’t. If 2018 and 2019 is What the Red Sox are alleged to be doing that was a misdemeanor.
The Sox will get significant penalties as a second time offender, but for other teams in a first post-2017 offense it should be a stiff fine, a 10 game suspension for the manager or something, and maybe forfeiting a second round pick.
And even the penalties the Sox get should be a small fraction of what the Astros got. Maybe loss of a first round pick and a big fine.
On the Cora subject, it will be interesting to see how flexible teams are to let their own staff interview for the Astros & Sox openings. Considering how close we are to the season (WOOHOO BASEBALL) and how much knowledge of a specific team those folks have, you might see more hesitation.
Another thought on the Apple Watch counter claim: if the allegations that Yankees were using the replay room is true then how thorough was Manfred's investigation? Seems like the Sox suspicions that their signs were being stolen would have been correct but what they supposed was the methodology was incorrect.
That Loney quote is an eye opener. Speaks to poor vetting of Cora if this was widely known.
there are reports out there that the Sox wanted to wait until the report but Cora effectively resigned.
Even if it is a promotion? So I am not sure about permission needing to be granted. He already was interviewed for Pitts and SF and was considered as a finalist in both.
I think the Sox get a heavy fine and may or may not lose a pick. They aren't going to get hit nearly as hard as Houston. Sox are repeat offenders but Houston just had the most elaborate cheating system in sports history over the course of years.
There seems to be some smoke building with the Yankees as well. I definitely think Manfred is going to be pressured into looking at them too. If thats the case then they'll get the same treatment as Boston.
If your goal is to somehow make a whataboutism claim, I would say start a thread about the Yankees potential cheating and show your homework. Following that thread would be interesting.
my point was they still seem to love him and maybe have been blinded throughout the whole tenure, from when Farrell was fired until today
Mookie pays for himself, and then some (and in his particular case, by a sizable multiple). He covers for the 15th through 25th players on the roster who, while not truly fungible, aren't starters and who sell exactly zero tickets on their own, except indirectly by preventing overuse injury to the players whose jerseys people actually buy, and whose performances are discussed in front of water coolers around the country. He pays for the massive staffing infrastructure of an organization like the Sox. Mookie is the product, or the single largest fraction of it. He's the reason you pony up for a ticket to a big league game as opposed to going to the minors somewhere for $10 to see damned good baseball players playing a game very well, thank you very much. What's the difference between that $10 ticket and the $150 you and I might pay to see Boston? Between the TV ratings for the Portland Sea Dogs and the Boston Red Sox? Most of that is Mookie, and the fellow stars, who are not just "damn good ballplayers" but "so absurdly good that you might see something that literally nobody else could have done".
The only even remotely plausible reason Mookie might not have played for the 2020 Red Sox was if they thought that they could have traded him for substantial assets, and then re-signed him in free agency for 2021+ without any hard feelings. That the trade would not have lessened our ability to sign him long-term. Mookie speaks publicly as if he's a cold calculating machine about the business side of the game... but he's still just a bag of meat and electrical signals, just like every one of us fallible, emotionally-driven humans. No surprise that Chaim, Henry et al don't want to take that chance.
But at no point was the consideration whether Mookie would deliver enough business value in 2020 to be worth his 2020 salary. There's nobody in the organization more underpaid than Mookie Betts is at $27,000,000 per year.
Or perhaps they vetted him really well and his known edge seeking was considered a feature and not a bug. Again, there is some form of sign stealing going on at every level and I would be shocked if quite a few organizations aren't utilizing technology for this purpose.
The problem wasn't the crime. It was getting busted for it.
hey now he's going to get at least a round million for next year!
Hard for me to be really sure where the biggest delta is between business value and salary, but yeah it's close in that comparison. Xander and Chris Sale aren't far behind.
No, that's not me being clear enough, the Brewers were mentioned separately from Morrison, that goes back to November when Darvish mentioned something and then some reporters also gave vague inferences. Brewers were just the only other team I remember being specifically mentioned by anyone besides those 4.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2019/11/15/brewers-christian-yelich-tweets-harshly-yu-darvish-over-accusation/4206317002/
Yes, sobering.
Did Alex Cora manage to taint the 2007 World Series Champions while he was on their roster?
I was thinking more that Loney looks like a schmuck for piling on with a "yeah, i knew that back then" comment
Joining the chorus--had to be done, but it sucks.
Read article tonight and this isn't an exact quote, but an anonymous baseball "executive" said that anyone that thinks it's just 2 or 3 teams is fooling themselves--it's not every team, but it's a lot, and despite the Cora stuff, in a lot of places it's driven by players. He heard (again paraphrasing) that one team acquired some new player and that guy walked in and was like "Are you guys fucking idiots? Why are you *not* doing this?"
Read article tonight and this isn't an exact quote, but an anonymous baseball "executive" said that anyone that thinks it's just 2 or 3 teams is fooling themselves--it's not every team, but it's a lot, and despite the Cora stuff, in a lot of places it's driven by players. He heard (again paraphrasing) that one team acquired some new player and that guy walked in and was like "Are you guys fucking idiots? Why are you *not* doing this?"
Somehow I doubt Showalter would want it. IIMO he wouldn't be caught dead in a Red Sox uniform. Nor would most of the fan base want him.
I see that differently.
The Astros ludicrous scandal put long-standing grey area practices in a new light.
Cora was brought here because of his familiarity with the dark arts as practiced in Houston. Not despite.
This needs more love
I feel the same way. I'm sad he's gone, figured he was going to be a long-term manager for a very good run over a number of years in the future
Why can't the MLB just install some camera's in the video room and see who's in there?
Why do they need people to stand there, assume they will be there all game.
I'm not advocating for Varitek, but he was with the Sox during the late season Colorado trip
Or Brady Williams, the Durham Bulls manager, if there is an issue with getting Quatraro out of there.
This is going to end up being a good thing for the Sox. Bloom comes from an organizational culture where the front office and on-field management is fully integrated. Much easier to implement that in Boston when you pick your own guy than when you inherit a World Series winning manager.