2020 Pats: Bengals Coach Implies Patriots Taping Play Signals

cornwalls@6

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Maybe it's just me, but the tone and tenor of Goodell's comments did not give me a feeling this is coming to a conclusion anytime soon.

I'm probably going to get murdered here for throwing this out there, but here goes; what's to prevent him from bringing those video personnel in to the NFL offices and ask them point blank "Did anyone in the organization or more specifically, the coaching staff instruct you to film the Bengals sideline and coaches?"...…......Just ask the video personnel if they were instructed to do so and if so, by whom? How hard is that?

Sorry, I have a real bad feeling about this one.
I’m starting to get that vibe too. This seems like it should have been a quick resolution. I’m hoping some of the reports on how furious BB was when he heard what happened will at least sway the league that football opps had nothing to with this. But the longer this goes, the worse feeling I get.
 

Caspir

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What's tp prevent him? They aren't league employees. He's not a judge or any kind of authority figure they need to recognize.
If Goddell requests to speak with the camera crew and they refuse, Bob Kraft should start thinking about life after football because this franchise would be done, and rightfully so. It doesn’t matter if they aren’t “league employees” considering they work for an NFL owner and were taping an NFL employee inside an NFL stadium during an NFL game. If he wants to hear their side and they do anything other than provide it, Tom Brady’s surly demeanor will be the last thing on anyone’s minds.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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If Goddell requests to speak with the camera crew and they refuse, Bob Kraft should start thinking about life after football because this franchise would be done, and rightfully so. It doesn’t matter if they aren’t “league employees” considering they work for an NFL owner and were taping an NFL employee inside an NFL stadium during an NFL game. If he wants to hear their side and they do anything other than provide it, Tom Brady’s surly demeanor will be the last thing on anyone’s minds.
Some of them are independent contractors. If they say no or get lawyers, there is nothing Kraft can do other than ask. Or threaten never to hire them again.

It’s not a plausible scenario though. The league has plenty of options to make them cooperate, including banning them from ever getting credentials if they refuse.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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If Goddell requests to speak with the camera crew and they refuse, Bob Kraft should start thinking about life after football because this franchise would be done, and rightfully so. It doesn’t matter if they aren’t “league employees” considering they work for an NFL owner and were taping an NFL employee inside an NFL stadium during an NFL game. If he wants to hear their side and they do anything other than provide it, Tom Brady’s surly demeanor will be the last thing on anyone’s minds.
Lol, Kraft can't even compel the video guys to provide their side, they were independent contractors. He can ask but if they say no, what do you suggest he do, other than not hire them again. The question posed was what prevents Goodell from making them cooperate; he can't make them do anything, nor can Kraft. How that looks if it gets to that point is a different matter.
 

Mooch

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Some of them are independent contractors. If they say no or get lawyers, there is nothing Kraft can do other than ask. Or threaten never to hire them again.

It’s not a plausible scenario though. The league has plenty of options to make them cooperate, including banning them from ever getting credentials if they refuse.
These guys are never getting credentials or working on NFL products again, regardless of what Goodell does.
 

EddieYost

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I fully expect a quick decision and for the verdict to be that the Pats forfeit this week. This way I can’t be disappointed.
 

54thMA

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I’m starting to get that vibe too. This seems like it should have been a quick resolution. I’m hoping some of the reports on how furious BB was when he heard what happened will at least sway the league that football opps had nothing to with this. But the longer this goes, the worse feeling I get.
He looked annoyed/pissed/torked off in the press conference, like he's dying to drop the hammer.

This concerned me because he usually has a look on his face like an old man trying to return soup at a deli.
 

Diamond Don Aase

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I fully expect a quick decision and for the verdict to be that the Pats forfeit this week. This way I can’t be disappointed.
Well, the league already decided that the Patriots would forfeit last week but, in what must simply the wildest of coincidences, that story was quickly superseded by this latest Park Avenue invention.
 

Marciano490

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There's no real need or incentive for the NFL to quickly announce its decision. Why not keep it in its back pocket to knock off the next bad press about a domestic assault or poor refereeing or a 7-9 NFC East champion.
 

Mooch

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If the league comes down hard on the Pats for this and it turns out to be exactly what we’ve been hearing is an innocent mistake, I’m fucking DONE with the NFL. What a bunch of horseshit.
 

Mooch

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Join me!

But I think no matter how innocent the incident it shows amazing hubris that this could happen, independent contractors or not.
I think it’s sloppiness, which you wouldn’t expect from a Patriots organization that prides itself on attention to detail. However, if there was no intent to break rules here and this was completely separate from the operational side of the business, there is zero justification for punishing the actual playing side. If that’s the road the NFL wants to go down, it is 100% vindictive against them and I’m not supporting this crap anymore.

ETA: And THIS time, Kraft and Belichick need to go scorched earth on the league and Goodell.
 

Captaincoop

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They broke the rules and they have already admitted they broke the rules.

The ball inflation "scandal" was the time to go scorched earth. This one is entirely on the Patriots.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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There is no time to go scorched earth so that Vice Principal Vernon can just dish out more punishment like candy. There is no benefit. And people are too dumb and/or tribal about their teams to care even if someone did let loose at a press conference.

The remedy is to keep winning and tell him to go fuck himself when you take the trophy from him again.

Whatever, this is what happens when New York meatheads run a pro sports league. Insufferable self-importance and inane, arbitrary Calvinball rules and regulations.
 
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NickEsasky

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They broke the rules and they have already admitted they broke the rules.

The ball inflation "scandal" was the time to go scorched earth. This one is entirely on the Patriots.
So fine them like they fined every other team for “game day infractions” oh except the Patriots who always seem to be the exception to the rule when it comes to league punishment.
 

Captaincoop

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So fine them like they fined every other team for “game day infractions” oh except the Patriots who always seem to be the exception to the rule when it comes to league punishment.
The league took away a pick from the Falcons a few years ago for a game day infraction.

And the Patriots are "repeat offenders". You really expected the league to look carefully at this and accept the Patriots' explanation that they weren't sharing the tape with football operations and so no advantage was gained? The NFL doesn't care. The Pats lost the benefit of the doubt when they got pinned with multiple other infractions over the last decade.

None of this is "fair", but it was all predictable and a reason the organization should have taken a lot more care than it did.

I'm guessing large fine and a 4th or 5th round pick.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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The league took away a pick from the Falcons a few years ago for a game day infraction.

And the Patriots are "repeat offenders". You really expected the league to look carefully at this and accept the Patriots' explanation that they weren't sharing the tape with football operations and so no advantage was gained? The NFL doesn't care. The Pats lost the benefit of the doubt when they got pinned with multiple other infractions over the last decade.

None of this is "fair", but it was all predictable and a reason the organization should have taken a lot more care than it did.

I'm guessing large fine and a 4th or 5th round pick.
Agree with all of this and hoping you are right enough on the penalty. I would quibble with them losing the benefit of the doubt. Seems like they never had any in the first place given the unprecedented penalty for the first infraction, which has guided the league’s hand ever since.

I know it was for a show on the advance scout but, shit, do it for a home game and have him pretend he is scouting the Pats or something. Make sure there actually is nothing in the nothingburger.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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The Patriots fucked up. They are going to get hit with something. The league has put itself in the position for better or worse where it can’t really take a pass on infractions by deeming them non intentional because then you risk that teams will take advantage.

i hope the penalty is proportionate but if there is a fine I really don’t care if it is $100,000 or $1,000,000. Doesn’t count against the cap and it’s not my money.

To me the important thing is the message sent. If no coach is fined and the league wants to come out and say that there was no intent but there needs to be punishment to ensure teams make sure their representatives toe the line, I can live with that. If it’s a draft pick above a 4th or 5th I would be pretty pissed and like everyone here be bummed about the double standard. But, fuck it, rightly or wrongly, we’re on double secret probation and still managed to fuck up.
 

Mystic Merlin

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La Canfora is all worked up about this (and an outlier at that among reporters), so I’m not inclined to let him suck me into thinking the loss of two first rounders and a Belichick suspension is in the offing. Of course they’ll be fined.
 
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Ed Hillel

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It’s gonna be a first or second lol. “Their history will be factored in.”
 

JimD

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i hope the penalty is proportionate but if there is a fine I really don’t care if it is $100,000 or $1,000,000. Doesn’t count against the cap and it’s not my money.
I hope Kraft gets hit with a huge fine - this is 100% on him and the non-football side of the operation.
 

cornwalls@6

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I hope Kraft gets hit with a huge fine - this is 100% on him and the non-football side of the operation.
Yup. He, and/or Jonathon, whoever runs things on that side of the house day to day, deserve to get whacked for stupidity and sloppiness. But if the football side is hit with anything other than a low draft pick, or reduction of draft order, it's complete bullshit, and being done only to placate whiny, jealous owners and media trolls. I won't make any proclamations about being done with the league, but it will be one more brick in the wall of my eroding interest and regard for it.
 

Caspir

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I hope Kraft gets hit with a huge fine - this is 100% on him and the non-football side of the operation.
I think the difficulty lies in the fact that owners shit money out like nothing. A million bucks? Pfft. Five million? Meh. I don’t think Goddell can impose unlimited dollar fines either, so penalizing the franchise is supposed to be the deterrent. There is no reason to fine an owner but not penalize the team.

They’re going to lose a pick, get a big fine, have video personnel suspended, and maybe some weird twist like not being allowed to have a scout at pro day or some other nonsensical and arbitrary penalty made up on the fly because why not go big?
 

lexrageorge

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There are limits on the fines the league can impose on both personnel and on a team. The $500K fine on Belichick and the $250K on the team were the maximum allowed at the time of Spygate.

It makes zero sense that the league will ignore intent. Intent absolutely matters. As does the chain of command. Any sanction against Belichick is absolute BS, as is any significant draft pick penalty.

IMO, the biggest question is why did the Pats rely on a couple of independent video guys to secure all the permissions. It seems that whomever runs KSP could have (and should have) known at least a week in advance that the team would be sending an advance scout to the Browns/Bengals game, and the same person should have informed the Browns, Bengals, and NFL at that time rather than waiting until game time.

The problem for the Pats is that their mistake did cause the Bungles coaching staff to have to deal with this during their practice preparations this week. While some of the proposals like forcing Kraft to sell the team are clearly idiotic and are never going to happen, the penalties could be more severe than I would have originally thought.
 

amRadio

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Kinda feels like if our Superbowls counted with anyone outside of NE, with a draft pick loss and a large fine here, now they will not. I am probably also done with the NFL. Can't believe this is what happened.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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If this is the turning point for any of you to walk away from the NFL, your priorities need a quick heat check. This is 100% a Pats fuck up and whether that fall entirely on Kraft or to his underlings, the team and everyone involved should know to walk on egg shells. For an organization that prides itself on its preparation for every possible scenario, this is something that never should have fallen through the cracks. Intent really doesn't matter, IMO, consider it a fine for incompetence.
 

Harry Hooper

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IMO, the biggest question is why did the Pats rely on a couple of independent video guys to secure all the permissions. It seems that whomever runs KSP could have (and should have) known at least a week in advance that the team would be sending an advance scout to the Browns/Bengals game, and the same person should have informed the Browns, Bengals, and NFL at that time rather than waiting until game time.

The problem for the Pats is that their mistake did cause the Bungles coaching staff to have to deal with this during their practice preparations this week. While some of the proposals like forcing Kraft to sell the team are clearly idiotic and are never going to happen, the penalties could be more severe than I would have originally thought.
KSP sent a full-time producer along with the 2 audio/video contractors. They have no excuses for incredible stupidity.
 

Mystic Merlin

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If this is the turning point for any of you to walk away from the NFL, your priorities need a quick heat check. This is 100% a Pats fuck up and whether that fall entirely on Kraft or to his underlings, the team and everyone involved should know to walk on egg shells. For an organization that prides itself on its preparation for every possible scenario, this is something that never should have fallen through the cracks. Intent really doesn't matter, IMO, consider it a fine for incompetence.
This is true.

There is a point at which the penalty levied is so disproportionate to the severity of the underlying offense that laying the consequences exclusively at the feet of the team is unwarranted, but without knowing the penalty it’s obviously premature to go there. If the penalty is more or less in line with similar past violations, then we can all move on.
 

amRadio

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If this is the turning point for any of you to walk away from the NFL, your priorities need a quick heat check. This is 100% a Pats fuck up and whether that fall entirely on Kraft or to his underlings, the team and everyone involved should know to walk on egg shells. For an organization that prides itself on its preparation for every possible scenario, this is something that never should have fallen through the cracks. Intent really doesn't matter, IMO, consider it a fine for incompetence.
My priorities need a "heat check" because it disheartens me the country views my favorite football team as cheaters and our superbowls as illegitimate? OK. It's just kind of annoying that I can't get Patriots related content from any local or national outlet without going through "wHy ArE tHeY tHe OnLy OnEs ChEaTiNg?!?1?one?"
 

BaseballJones

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This is true.

There is a point at which the penalty levied is so disproportionate to the severity of the underlying offense that laying the consequences exclusively at the feet of the team is unwarranted, but without knowing the penalty it’s obviously premature to go there. If the penalty is more or less in line with similar past violations, then we can all move on.
Depends on which “past violations” and penalties you’re talking about.

If you’re talking about Jets’ taping, then the Pats should receive no penalty.

If you’re talking about Spygate then you think that this should cost NE a first round draft pick?
 

E5 Yaz

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La Canfora is all worked up about this (and an outlier at that among reporters), so I’m not inclined to let him suck me into thinking the loss of two first rounders and a Belichick suspension is in the offing. Of course they’ll be fined.

Reiss:
Mark Maske, a veteran NFL reporter for the Washington Post, reported that the league is likely to penalize the Patriots and is “contemplating disciplinary measures in line with those imposed on teams in recent seasons for infractions of game-day rules … that could mean a fine in the hundreds of thousands of dollars and potentially the loss of reduction in value of a draft choice, typically a lower level pick.”
 

Mystic Merlin

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Depends on which “past violations” and penalties you’re talking about.

If you’re talking about Jets’ taping, then the Pats should receive no penalty.

If you’re talking about Spygate then you think that this should cost NE a first round draft pick?
Spygate isn’t on my list of similar violations. In the Spygate saga, there was incontrovertible proof of intent to use the tapes - which were also numerous/across several games - to gain a competitive advantage. That doesn’t exist here based on reports to-date.

If Kraft gets a max fine and the Pats lose a mid to late round pick or have its value reduced a la the Falcons or Giants, not much to complain about.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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My priorities need a "heat check" because it disheartens me the country views my favorite football team as cheaters and our superbowls as illegitimate? OK. It's just kind of annoying that I can't get Patriots related content from any local or national outlet without going through "wHy ArE tHeY tHe OnLy OnEs ChEaTiNg?!?1?one?"
Why do you care what anyone else thinks about the football team that you happened to be born near? Enjoy the best 20+ year in sports history. Also, acknowledge that they have toed the line on a few occasions and may have been in the wrong here.
 

bankshot1

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Assuming no deep comspiracy is found, I think the NFL-Goodell's rhetoric will be harsher than the penalty levied. Something aimed at embarassing them.

Something along the lines of, "While we find there was no malicious intent to break the NFL rules as it regards the taping of opponents, there was an infraction of the NFL rules. The Patriots exhibited a marked lack of institutional controls particularly when viewed through the lens of past infractions involving this type of activity.

$1 million fine on the organization, (or whatever the max allowable is), a loss of a 5th round pick, and suspension of the Patriot representation on the rules committee or whatever to embarass the Foxboro crime syndicate. But no penalty that takes Kraft off of a committee that makes the NFL money.
 

yecul

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Two 1sts or one 1st and a 2nd/3rd. Max fines. BB suspended 4 games up to a year.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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My priorities need a "heat check" because it disheartens me the country views my favorite football team as cheaters and our superbowls as illegitimate? OK. It's just kind of annoying that I can't get Patriots related content from any local or national outlet without going through "wHy ArE tHeY tHe OnLy OnEs ChEaTiNg?!?1?one?"
My post wasn't aimed at you, but if you ask, your priorities need a heat check because if this is what drives you away from the NFL - while ignoring the concussions, the domestic issues, the PEDs use, the exploitation of the athletes, etc - then sorry, but I don't really care to hear your declaration. Who gives a flying fuck what other fans say or think about your team? We've been dealing with being called cheaters for 12 years, get over it. It's no one but BB's fault that the ball got started rolling. DFG was bullshit, we know. This is legit their fault, intent or not. There's no martyrdom here.
 

PedroKsBambino

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The NFL already penalized them the Chiefs game thanks to the biased and incompetent Bogar crew. That may be an overpay for the 'violation' but the bill has already been paid.
 

Ed Hillel

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That “begging to delete the footage” reporting seems pretty stupid right about now.
 

Mooch

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It’s their backs for fucks sake. There’s no way they were doing anything to “steal signals” here.
 

BaseballJones

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Interesting but stupid.

“Yeah I don’t see an advance scout in any of this footage they’re shooting.” That’s because it was B-roll you frigging dummy.
 

BaseballJones

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And yeah there’s literally nothing to see there. It will raise red flags for the morons out there because “Bengals’ sideline” but honestly there’s like NOTHING to look at there.

Omg the Patriots are gonna get hammered for NOTHING.