2020 Pats: Bengals Coach Implies Patriots Taping Play Signals

loshjott

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The Pats certainly can't be the only team that has a video production unit and does filming at games, etc. If so, what do other teams do? Is this a common occurrence that goes unnoticed because it's not the Pats? Do other teams clear it through the league?

Not that those details really matter (see, again, Spygate) but I am curious how common this is.
 

cornwalls@6

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I have a bad feeling that the league, per usual, rather than making a reasoned judgment based on the evidence, is waiting to see which way the wind blows before dropping the hammer. The fact the story is penetrating the non sports media is not a good sign, IMO.
 

BaseballJones

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I have a bad feeling that the league, per usual, rather than making a reasoned judgment based on the evidence, is waiting to see which way the wind blows before dropping the hammer. The fact the story is penetrating the non sports media is not a good sign, IMO.
Only because it’s the Patriots. If Arizona did this nobody would even waste a breath commenting.

Which is why it’s not paranoid of Pats fans to worry about the hammer dropping on them. We’ve seen it twice before already.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Well lets see...

About 24 hours after the referees might have actually put money on the Pats/Chiefs this story comes out. You have to obviously wonder why this story leaked on Monday instead of maybe coming out on Thursday or Friday or if its even a big story at all if the game wasn't officiated so poorly.

That being said the Pats admitted guilt and you really have to question if Kraft productions has been doing this for years. If thats the case then there needs to be some swift penalties and Handjob Bob probably needs to sell the team. I respect the dynasty and will always be a Pats fan but the last few years with all of his character flaws have really made me embarrassed to be a Pats fan. Support of Trump, Deflategate, Orchids, now filming the 0-80 Bengals. The freaking Bengals. Wtf.
 

Salem's Lot

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Well lets see...

About 24 hours after the referees might have actually put money on the Pats/Chiefs this story comes out. You have to obviously wonder why this story leaked on Monday instead of maybe coming out on Thursday or Friday or if its even a big story at all if the game wasn't officiated so poorly.

That being said the Pats admitted guilt and you really have to question if Kraft productions has been doing this for years. If thats the case then there needs to be some swift penalties and Handjob Bob probably needs to sell the team. I respect the dynasty and will always be a Pats fan but the last few years with all of his character flaws have really made me embarrassed to be a Pats fan. Support of Trump, Deflategate, Orchids, now filming the 0-80 Bengals. The freaking Bengals. Wtf.
I don’t like Trump, and would rather the owners of the teams that I root for not support him either, but let’s not let our politics interfere with our judgement here. Nobody is making him sell the team short of a Donald Sterling style racist rant on camera.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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I don’t like Trump, and would rather the owners of the teams that I root for not support him either, but let’s not let our politics interfere with our judgement here. Nobody is making him sell the team short of a Donald Sterling style racist rant on camera.
No I'm not saying that. The main point is the bengals. I just listed incidents over the last few years. But if they find out Kraft productions has been doing this for years they're absolutely making him sell. And they should. Its honestly a fair question to ask when your crew gets bagged filming the freaking bengals.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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Well lets see...

About 24 hours after the referees might have actually put money on the Pats/Chiefs this story comes out. You have to obviously wonder why this story leaked on Monday instead of maybe coming out on Thursday or Friday or if its even a big story at all if the game wasn't officiated so poorly.

That being said the Pats admitted guilt and you really have to question if Kraft productions has been doing this for years. If thats the case then there needs to be some swift penalties and Handjob Bob probably needs to sell the team. I respect the dynasty and will always be a Pats fan but the last few years with all of his character flaws have really made me embarrassed to be a Pats fan. Support of Trump, Deflategate, Orchids, now filming the 0-80 Bengals. The freaking Bengals. Wtf.
The Orchids embarrassed you? That's a low bar, IMO. And you are also conveniently ignoring the fact that there is tape (ironic) of Kraft condemning 45's policies at the latest owners meeting.


EDIT- the video/audio was from November of this year, but the meeting was actually in 2017)
 

DJnVa

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Kyed with some rational takes:

The Patriots were shooting in the press box in front of media and reportedly Bengals scouts. That seems excessively reckless to knowingly break rules in front of the team being filmed and in front of media members who could report on the act. It doesn’t necessarily pass the smell test that the Patriots would be so brazen in breaking the rules.
It also seems odd that the football staff would trust their production team, which included independent contractors, to assist them in cheating without eventually spilling the beans. A football staffer could fear repercussions for snitching. A production staffer eventually could move out of football and hold no loyalty to the Patriots. That also doesn’t pass the smell test.
That second one makes a lot of sense. We're the Patriots really going to bring in outside people to help them cheat? People with no loyalty to team or fear of getting blackballed?

This will be small fine and that's it. If you concern yourself with what Steelers fans think or whatever, that's your problem. They already hate the Patriots.


https://nesn.com/2019/12/patriots-latest-controversy-is-complicated-situation-for-nfl-to-penalize/
 

BaseballJones

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Kyed with some rational takes:





That second one makes a lot of sense. We're the Patriots really going to bring in outside people to help them cheat? People with no loyalty to team or fear of getting blackballed?

This will be small fine and that's it. If you concern yourself with what Steelers fans think or whatever, that's your problem. They already hate the Patriots.


https://nesn.com/2019/12/patriots-latest-controversy-is-complicated-situation-for-nfl-to-penalize/
I love your unbridled optimism (and god I hope you're right). But it's almost as if the NFL didn't suspend Tom Brady 4 games, fine the Pats like a million dollars, and dock them a first and fourth round draft picks because they didn't understand how the laws of physics work. And because...Patriots/Spygate.
 

bluefenderstrat

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Well lets see...

About 24 hours after the referees might have actually put money on the Pats/Chiefs this story comes out. You have to obviously wonder why this story leaked on Monday instead of maybe coming out on Thursday or Friday or if its even a big story at all if the game wasn't officiated so poorly.

That being said the Pats admitted guilt and you really have to question if Kraft productions has been doing this for years. If thats the case then there needs to be some swift penalties and Handjob Bob probably needs to sell the team. I respect the dynasty and will always be a Pats fan but the last few years with all of his character flaws have really made me embarrassed to be a Pats fan. Support of Trump, Deflategate, Orchids, now filming the 0-80 Bengals. The freaking Bengals. Wtf.
This is the perfect Tyrone Biggums post.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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The conspiracy theorists had a field day with the league having destroyed tapes after the whole spy gate thing, which makes me believe the league is going to face a lot of pressure to make this tape available.

I really think that what’s on video will drive much of the rest of the story‘s direction. There’s little doubt that conspiracy theorists will see what they want to see in the tapes but there’s never anything you can do about that. When there is video it dominates most stories.

I think the Patriots are really lucky this happened with the Bengals. If it had been the Ravens or Chiefs the story would likely have a different dimension. The Bengals’ record makes the Patriots’ story inherently believable.
 

DJnVa

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I love your unbridled optimism (and god I hope you're right). But it's almost as if the NFL didn't suspend Tom Brady 4 games, fine the Pats like a million dollars, and dock them a first and fourth round draft picks because they didn't understand how the laws of physics work. And because...Patriots/Spygate.
Football staff vs. Independent contractors.
 

cornwalls@6

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Kyed with some rational takes:





That second one makes a lot of sense. We're the Patriots really going to bring in outside people to help them cheat? People with no loyalty to team or fear of getting blackballed?

This will be small fine and that's it. If you concern yourself with what Steelers fans think or whatever, that's your problem. They already hate the Patriots.


https://nesn.com/2019/12/patriots-latest-controversy-is-complicated-situation-for-nfl-to-penalize/
Completely agree about not caring what opposing fans and media trolls say, but not sure how you can be so confident the league will handle this with a reasonable, proportional penalty. When have they ever done that in regards to the Patriots?
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Short of, say, constant and pointed zooming in directly at signals, it shouldn’t matter what is on the tape. Either you think they hired a third party TV production staff to carry out sign stealing against a team’s back on the near sideline in plain view of everyone, or they didn’t.
 

BaseballJones

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Football staff vs. Independent contractors.
Believe me.. *I* get it. I'm not disagreeing with you that this really is a nothing burger. What I'm reminding you of is that the NFL literally suspended Brady, fined the team, and took draft picks away because they did not understand basic laws of physics. They did that because it was the Patriots and because of the history of Spygate. If you think that they're just gonna wrist slap the Patriots over *another* videotaping scandal, you've just not been paying attention.

Even though Occam's Razor suggests that this was, indeed, NOTHING worthy of ANY serious penalty.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Short of, say, constant and pointed zooming in directly at signals, it shouldn’t matter what is on the tape. Either you think they hired a third party TV production staff to carry out sign stealing against a team’s back on the near sideline in plain view of everyone, or they didn’t.
The tape is the best possible piece of evidence to answer the question. You and I are Patriots fans. Of course it seems absurd. Non Patriots fans are skeptical and of course it seems plausible. We would be more skeptical if this were the Jets.

People are taking a lot of solace in the fact that the press box is on the visitor side. In the same thread where people initially took solace in (1) oh, it was just a documentary not filming of the field, (2) oh, the reporter is a Jets fan and nobody else has it, (3) oh, it’s not even against the rules. The story just keeps getting worse and worse.

The tape is going to tell us whether the positioning mattered. And a lot of other things.

Yes, the ultimate point is that the suggestion of using contractors to provide intel to ops is absurd. And I get that as Patriots fans we are prepared to ride that into the sunset no matter what the tape shows and it’s probably true. But to not think the narrative of how this will be viewed tomorrow and in five years is going to depend on the tape probably misses how these play themselves out in 2019.
 

DJnVa

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Completely agree about not caring what opposing fans and media trolls say, but not sure how you can be so confident the league will handle this with a reasonable, proportional penalty. When have they ever done that in regards to the Patriots?
I'm not "sure". I'm just making a prediction.
 

drbretto

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This doc better be Ken Burns-level to be worth the heartburn.
This heartburn, like most heartburn, seems to be entirely self afflicted. This thread needs some Tums.

I mean, I'm tired of the NFL too, but we should probably wait for them to do something stupid on this issue before we lament them being stupid on this issue.
Seriously. 10 pages of nothing happened yet. I get it, don't get me wrong, but spygate and deflategate had additional factors that made them blow up that just aren't here. Spygate was a pissing match and deflategate had enough ambiguity it blew up faster than the blue/white dress thing. These factors aren't there this time.

I know it feels like people would do anything to screw the Pats, but there needs to be at least the illusion of truth to it. I have to think the NFL actually doesn't want a repeat of deflategate and will act accordingly. Unless there's something particularly egregious on the tapes, this will be not even a blip. It won't even get a cutesy name with -gate tacked onto it.
 

DJnVa

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Believe me.. *I* get it. I'm not disagreeing with you that this really is a nothing burger. What I'm reminding you of is that the NFL literally suspended Brady, fined the team, and took draft picks away because they did not understand basic laws of physics. They did that because it was the Patriots and because of the history of Spygate. If you think that they're just gonna wrist slap the Patriots over *another* videotaping scandal, you've just not been paying attention.
I'm paying attention. I'm telling you it's going to be a fine, at most. Make your call and we'll see who's right.

EDIT: And in case it doesn't come through, I'm not saying that in a pissy or snarky way.
 

BaseballJones

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Oct 1, 2015
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I'm paying attention. I'm telling you it's going to be a fine, at most. Make your call and we'll see who's right.

EDIT: And in case it doesn't come through, I'm not saying that in a pissy or snarky way.
No worries mate. I really really hope you’re right. I have just seen the NFL screw the Patriots over for LESS than this. I don’t know what they will do but I bet it involves the loss of at least one draft pick.
 

loshjott

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drbretto

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Believe me.. *I* get it. I'm not disagreeing with you that this really is a nothing burger. What I'm reminding you of is that the NFL literally suspended Brady, fined the team, and took draft picks away because they did not understand basic laws of physics. They did that because it was the Patriots and because of the history of Spygate. If you think that they're just gonna wrist slap the Patriots over *another* videotaping scandal, you've just not been paying attention.

Even though Occam's Razor suggests that this was, indeed, NOTHING worthy of ANY serious penalty.

Deflategate happened because there was a certain zeal about catching the Pats red handed. It wasn't a manufactured outrage, it was butthurt executives who thought they caught the big baddies and they shifted the burden of proof to the accused. Despite how that all worked out publicly, there has to be some smart people in the organization that would advise proceeding with caution this time. Nobody wants the circus.

Everything written about it so far has been pretty much even keeled, too. I'm not even seeing a media frenzie compared to either previous "gates". This is a genuine grade-A plain nothingburger with no ketchup.
 

Ed Hillel

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The story is slowly slipping down the headlines on ESPN. The next day or two should tell us where this is going. BB’s press conference should be a hoot, I expect we’re gonna hear that phrase again...
 

lexrageorge

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Ideally, the NFL makes a press release by 4pm today, basically saying that the Pats violated the rules, but there was no intent to gain any unfair competitive advantage. The filming was done in support of the Patriots' Do Your Job documentary. The Patriots have assured the league that the members of the video crew have been relieved of their employment, and that they will institute controls to ensure that this does not happen again. The team will be fined $100,000 for the rules violation.

We'll see if the above happens. Given that the video crew was caught filming the first quarter, I'm sure the NFL should be able to complete their review of the 20 minute tape today. It's not like there's hours of tape to pour through and hundreds of interviews to conduct. The promising sign so far is that the majority of the media reports have been mostly about this incident being a misunderstanding and rules violation as opposed to "cheating". The thoughts of Steelers fans is irrelevant.

I'll start to get worried if the NFL says nothing today. Or they come out with the "We are investigating the incident, and we expect the investigation will continue for the next several days or weeks. Once the investigation is concluded, we will then determine the appropriate action, including any punishment for those involved".
 

drbretto

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Short of a major announcement from the NFL saying they're pretty damn sure there was evidence of cheating, we already see where this is going. Deflategate exploded worldwide over night. They were talking about that shit in Japan by morning. This will be forgotten by Friday.
 

Mystic Merlin

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The story is slowly slipping down the headlines on ESPN. The next day or two should tell us where this is going. BB’s press conference should be a hoot, I expect we’re gonna hear that phrase again...
‘I have nothing to add to the statement, we’re on to Cincinnati.’

Five minutes later: ‘Look, if anyone wants to talk about the game I’m here. No? Ok bye.’
 

johnmd20

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Short of a major announcement from the NFL saying they're pretty damn sure there was evidence of cheating, we already see where this is going. Deflategate exploded worldwide over night. They were talking about that shit in Japan by morning. This will be forgotten by Friday.
This is wishcasting. It's the Patriots. This will be a story.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Short of a major announcement from the NFL saying they're pretty damn sure there was evidence of cheating, we already see where this is going. Deflategate exploded worldwide over night. They were talking about that shit in Japan by morning. This will be forgotten by Friday.
The NFL has seemingly been way more tight lipped this time, lending support to the idea that they learned their lesson last time. The only reporter who got anything seems to have gotten it from the Bengals and then the faucet turned off quickly. None of the usual NFL reporters got anything.

The NFL is likely doing its thing, waiting to see where public opinion is and maybe even interviewing participants. But at least there is some evidence that so far they gotten the word out that nothing comes out of New York until they are ready. Doesn’t mean it will end positively, but at least it means they are not going to let the media and fans drive a story that pushes them to a nasty result.
 

lexrageorge

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The NFL has seemingly been way more tight lipped this time, lending support to the idea that they learned their lesson last time. The only reporter who got anything seems to have gotten it from the Bengals and then the faucet turned off quickly. None of the usual NFL reporters got anything.

The NFL is likely doing its thing, waiting to see where public opinion is and maybe even interviewing participants. But at least there is some evidence that so far they gotten the word out that nothing comes out of New York until they are ready. Doesn’t mean it will end positively, but at least it means they are not going to let the media and fans drive a story that pushes them to a nasty result.
The bolded is what's infuriating.

I can understand interviewing the participants to get all the facts. No matter the nature of the violation, the interviews will be a good way to check the consistency of everyone's story. The video itself should take all of 40 minutes or so to watch.

However, there is no good reason for the league or Goodell to wait "to see where public opinion is". If the Pats story checks out, then state that very clearly, announce a fine for the violation and move on. The Do Your Job documentary episodes do exist, and it should be easy to verify that the advanced scout's pre-game work was filmed.

Taking the other side of the trade: if the video shows the camera closing in on play sheets and signals and plays for the entire quarter, the film of the advance scout is found to not exist, and the explanations from the parties involved seem less than forthcoming, then they should announce that a deeper investigation is warranted.

The lack of leaks would lean one to conclude the former is closer to the truth than the latter; leaking a "nothing to see here" story doesn't advance anyone's standing with their press contacts. But time will tell.
 

EL Jeffe

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Radio-gate/headset-gate or whatever that stupid blip was against the Steelers a few years ago fizzled out quickly, and a lot of people were convinced in the moment that a hammer was coming. The evidence was gathered quickly, found to be exculpatory, and the story didn't really go anywhere.

Where this one goes sort of depends on what's on the tape. If it really is damning, this could easily blow up. If it's basically innocuous, it will very likely fizzle out. Russi makes it out to be damning. No one else is reporting or confirming that, so who knows. I'm not trying to be a contrarian or an alarmist. But her reporting is specific enough where I have to pause and wonder.
 

Silverdude2167

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Funnily from an NFL standpoint, I think they would not want to punish BB here because he is front and center their NFL 100 Team thingy. So they won't want to tarnish that before it even finishes running.
 

Jimbodandy

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I honestly forget the PTSD from Spygate and Ballghazi. I'm not bullshitting here. Legit got over it. It is entirely understandable that some in this thread haven't. No beef with that.

So I want to help compartmentalize a bit.

1. Do not worry that fans of other teams will use this as ammunition about cheating in some debate or mean taunts. Do not let such things affect your life. Fans of all 31 teams would trade the last 18 years of their football experience with yours and throw in a kidney and their prized yellow lab to boot. Do not forget this.
2. Seriously what are you worried about. Since all of this scandal nonsense, they won three super bowls. Three (3). OMG a fine and lost draft picks and Brady was suspended four games and it's so unfair! It didn't fucking stop the Pats. Sure maybe in the alternative dimension where Paul Tagliabue is commissioner, maybe we have seven, not six. Or maybe we have five, because having the league out to get you kinda motivates guys. Who fucking knows. Point is--stop worrying. It's not going to stop the Pats. It never has.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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View: https://twitter.com/markdanielspj/status/1204419228616540160


Honestly, they deserve whatever punishment is handed down to them.
Still doesn't offer enough clarity. If it's an 8 minute shot of the field as the game is going on and you have to squint to see a coach making some sort of signal that's much different than the camera zoomed in on the sideline. Sounds like a wider shot of the field if it shows players coming off the field.
 

BernieRicoBoomer

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Still doesn't offer enough clarity. If it's an 8 minute shot of the field as the game is going on and you have to squint to see a coach making some sort of signal that's much different than the camera zoomed in on the sideline. Sounds like a wider shot of the field if it shows players coming off the field.
Also, 8 minutes of footage is well short of the entire 1st quarter as previously reported.
 

InstaFace

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Still doesn't offer enough clarity. If it's an 8 minute shot of the field as the game is going on and you have to squint to see a coach making some sort of signal that's much different than the camera zoomed in on the sideline. Sounds like a wider shot of the field if it shows players coming off the field.
I ask again, suppose they were filming coaching signals (whether for the benefit of football ops or documentary B-roll) - why is that a problem, exactly? They're doing it from a prescribed location. Like, what do they think the advance scout is doing there, what's his job?
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Dahabenzapple2

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100% this is sickening. The Bengals are barely better than LSU. Why the hell are they filming them?

Belichick or Kraft needs to be suspended for this. 1st rounder will absolutely be taken away from the team. Such a great franchise that is tainted over crap that never needed to actually happen.
You should be on TV with Shannon Sharpe
 

Silverdude2167

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100% this is sickening. The Bengals are barely better than LSU. Why the hell are they filming them?

Belichick or Kraft needs to be suspended for this. 1st rounder will absolutely be taken away from the team. Such a great franchise that is tainted over crap that never needed to actually happen.
For the scouting segment, have you read anything about why the camera crew was reportedly there?