2023 Jets: Hello Darkness Retreat, My Old Friend

sodenj5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
6,619
CT
There's no way he ever had a toe in the retirement pool. The dark room had nothing to do with it. The $60 million had everything to do with it.

Just like there's no way that he's walking next year and leaving $50 million on the table to play 17 football games. There was never any doubt about him playing. It's all bullshit. And in the end the trade compensation shows that the Jets fully know there's no way he's retiring next year. Everyone has been posturing.
i believe Rodgers when he says he was leaning heavily towards retirement before his darkness retreat. I think he knew his time in Green Bay was up.

His nonsense story about disrespect is a coverup for saying “the darkness told me leaving 60 million on the table was dumb.”

His motivation for playing with the Jets is BS. He’s there to cash a check, not go on some world revenge tour.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
i believe Rodgers when he says he was leaning heavily towards retirement before his darkness retreat. I think he knew his time in Green Bay was up.

His nonsense story about disrespect is a coverup for saying “the darkness told me leaving 60 million on the table was dumb.”

His motivation for playing with the Jets is BS. He’s there to cash a check, not go on some world revenge tour.
I feel like you just want this to be true despite all evidence pointing to the fact that Rodgers is exactly the kind of petty, monomaniacal, Bradyesque psycho who has created revenge narratives to motivate him his entire career.

But I’m sure that’ll stop now that he’s joining the same division as your recently ascendant team :)
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
61,996
New York City
i believe Rodgers when he says he was leaning heavily towards retirement before his darkness retreat. I think he knew his time in Green Bay was up.

His nonsense story about disrespect is a coverup for saying “the darkness told me leaving 60 million on the table was dumb.”

His motivation for playing with the Jets is BS. He’s there to cash a check, not go on some world revenge tour.
You're being extremely obtuse.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,369
Not that this is official or anything, but look at this: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/aaron-rodgers-trade-ranking-all-the-afc-nfc-starting-qbs-after-packers-jets-strike-blockbuster-deal/

AFC
  1. Patrick Mahomes (Chiefs)
  2. Joe Burrow (Bengals)
  3. Josh Allen (Bills)
  4. Justin Herbert (Chargers)
  5. Trevor Lawrence (Jaguars)
  6. Aaron Rodgers (Jets)
  7. Lamar Jackson (Ravens)
  8. Deshaun Watson (Browns)
  9. Tua Tagovailoa (Dolphins)
  10. Jimmy Garoppolo (Raiders)
  11. Russell Wilson (Broncos)
  12. Kenny Pickett (Steelers)
  13. Ryan Tannehill (Titans)
  14. Mac Jones (Patriots)
  15. Gardner Minshew (Colts)
  16. Davis Mills (Texans)
NFC
  1. Jalen Hurts (Eagles)
  2. Dak Prescott (Cowboys)
  3. Kirk Cousins (Vikings)
  4. Justin Fields (Bears)
  5. Jared Goff (Lions)
  6. Geno Smith (Seahawks)
  7. Derek Carr (Saints)
  8. Daniel Jones (Giants)
  9. Jordan Love (Packers)
  10. Trey Lance / Brock Purdy (49ers)
  11. Matthew Stafford (Rams)
  12. Kyler Murray (Cardinals)
  13. Andy Dalton (Panthers)
  14. Sam Howell (Commanders)
  15. Baker Mayfield (Buccaneers)
  16. Desmond Ridder (Falcons)

The list of AFC quarterbacks is SO much better than the NFC list, it's not even funny. I don't know if I'd rank them all exactly as cbssports does here but the point is simply that the AFC dominates in terms of QB quality. And we all know - even people like me who tend to really be Mac supporters - how far down the list Mac is. Which.....isn't good news for the Patriots. Ugh. And other than Rodgers, the guys at the top of the AFC are all young:

Mahomes (27)
Burrow (26)
Allen (26)
Herbert (25)
Lawrence (23)
Jackson (26)
Watson (27)
Tua (25)

The Pats have their work cut out for them. Big time.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
26,991
Newton
Granted I’m leaning on 2021 here but in what world is Mac three slots behind the Corpse of Russel Wilson and two behind Kenny Pickett?
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
12,749
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
Granted I’m leaning on 2021 here but in what world is Mac three slots behind the Corpse of Russel Wilson and two behind Kenny Pickett?
The corpse of Russell Wilson wasn't worse than Mac in 2022, has a better track record of success and now is being coached by Sean Payton. I wouldn't count on Pickett being better than Mac next year either, but I do think in his final six starts last year he showed some play making potential that I guess you could buy over Mac's Steady Eddy game. But yeah, it it concerning that the only two teams with starters set to be 100% worse than Mac Jones in the Conference next year will likely be drafting QBs in the top 4.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
It’s a bit funny the Jets, Bills and Dolphins all got very good when the Pats were fringey at best anyways. They can all beat each other up for the rest of their brief windows while we hopefully retool.
 

m0ckduck

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,714
This is more of a general "the Jets suck" point than Rodgers commentary, but I couldn't get over this stat from Bill Barnwell's column on the trade:

Four of The Associated Press' 75 voters chose Namath as their MVP in 1972, placing Namath third that season. Since then, not a single Jets player has garnered a single AP MVP vote. I'm not talking about winning an award; no Jets player has received a single vote from any AP voter in any race over the past 50 years.

Jets players are 0-for-several thousand. Every other NFL franchise besides the Jaguars has had an NFL player receive at least one MVP vote since 1972, and the Jags only came into existence in 1995. Unlike the Jaguars, the Jets play in the biggest media market in America, one in which the Giants have had five different players take home at least one vote over that time frame.
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
12,749
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
Wow. I'm kind of surprised Brunell never got an MVP vote during those great Jacksonville years. But yeah.
He probably would under the new system, but up until last year writers only chose one single player for MVP and he wasn't ever close to being the best player in the league. Actually, Trevor Lawrence got one 4th and one 5th place MVP vote last season, but I guess they're counting only first place to make it more even.
 

m0ckduck

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,714
Trying to think if there were any instances where somebody should've gotten at least one vote during that span. Curtis Martin? Freeman McNeil? Reaching, but maybe Testaverde in '98?
I could have pictured some partisan NYC media hacks giving Mark Gastineau a vote or two way back when.
 

Shaky Walton

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 20, 2019
717
I know he’s Aaron Rodgers and wouldn’t bet against him, but he wasn’t very good last year and he’s not getting younger.
He was also the MVP two years ago (though Brady probably should have been so chosen), and while his overall performance was substandard, he did look like himself at times. He did make throws that were in the "how the f did he do that" category, and he showed, to me at least, that he's still very talented.

I can see things going poorly in NY. The media will be way more demanding. He has no excuses (other than the O-line, but he can scramble quite well). And he has a penchant for being a douche.

But the Jets just got a QB and the Patriots wont have the fun of playing against someone seeing ghosts or unable to make the most rudimentary of passes.

This, in my view, just made 2023 materially more difficult. And puts a finer point on the Pats again choosing not to splurge for a true number one, exceptional WR like Hopkins for the offense.

Hoping for the meltdown/Same Old Jets/get yer popcorn ready result, and expecting indigestion.
 

astrozombie

New Member
Sep 12, 2022
394
Rodgers makes the Jets better and possibly even extremely good, but I still don't see them beating the Bills in the AFC East or even the Dolphins really. He'll beat up on the Pats (especially when Belichick trades out of the first round this year to draft 2 safeties in the second round from DIII schools who have had a combined 8 reconstructive knee surgeries) but it won't be like when he was younger and got 4-6 guaranteed wins in the NFC North (depending on what year it was when the Vikes were actually good or kinda crap). He'll put up solid numbers, make some great plays, and make the Jets competitive, but the AFC is just so loaded now with the aforementioned Bills/Dolphins in his own division, then the Chiefs, Bengals, Chargers, Jacksonville on the rise...
 

Justthetippett

New Member
Aug 9, 2015
2,391
It’s a bit funny the Jets, Bills and Dolphins all got very good when the Pats were fringey at best anyways. They can all beat each other up for the rest of their brief windows while we hopefully retool.
This is the kind of optimism we need!

Feels like the Raiders and Pats are in similar spots. Tough divisions and lacking talent at critical positions. But every year things look one way in the off season and break differently once the games start. I am sure Rodgers will have his moments, but I'm not sold on the Jets being a true threat in the AFC. With the Rodgers of five years ago maybe. It's still a Mahomes/Reid world, with Burrow knocking at the door.
 

Bigdogx

New Member
Jul 21, 2020
145
Rodgers makes the Jets better and possibly even extremely good, but I still don't see them beating the Bills in the AFC East or even the Dolphins really. He'll beat up on the Pats (especially when Belichick trades out of the first round this year to draft 2 safeties in the second round from DIII schools who have had a combined 8 reconstructive knee surgeries) but it won't be like when he was younger and got 4-6 guaranteed wins in the NFC North (depending on what year it was when the Vikes were actually good or kinda crap). He'll put up solid numbers, make some great plays, and make the Jets competitive, but the AFC is just so loaded now with the aforementioned Bills/Dolphins in his own division, then the Chiefs, Bengals, Chargers, Jacksonville on the rise...
The Jets are going to be good imo, now that this main piece has fallen into place you will see all the little signings, that like we used to enjoy take place, with players looking to sign onto a contender. They also have good positioning in the draft with not a ton of holes to fill out, people better be prepared to watch the Jets be a good team for at minimum the next couple of years imo.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
61,996
New York City
The Jets are going to be good imo, now that this main piece has fallen into place you will see all the little signings, that like we used to enjoy take place, with players looking to sign onto a contender. They also have good positioning in the draft with not a ton of holes to fill out, people better be prepared to watch the Jets be a good team for at minimum the next couple of years imo.
One year.

The Jets look great for 2023. I don't understand how anyone can look at the Jets going from Flacco and Zach Wilson to Aaron Rodgers and thinking it doesn't help them immeasurably.
 
Apr 24, 2019
1,278
Genuinely happy for my jet fan friends, but I'm not sure they feel the way I do: This is a JETS MUST WIN THE SUPER BOWL trade. If they don't, who cares if they got better only to then LOSE him in a year or two or three? This doesn't build anything. Win, awesome - totally worth it. Anything else - you lost valuable picks and still don't have another Super Bowl and your fans go back to feeling like "same old jets." I mean, there's value, I guess, in some success and maybe they can build on that, but this feels to me like a swing for the fences moment. Good luck.
 

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
I wonder if the move back to 15 will see the Jets picking Bijan Robinson -- seems like a great weapon to add for Rodgers and a nice complement to Breece Hall. Maybe even coupled with a trace back a few spots to regain some of the draft capital sent out for AR8.
 

Mystic Merlin

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 21, 2007
46,767
Hartford, CT
Genuinely happy for my jet fan friends, but I'm not sure they feel the way I do: This is a JETS MUST WIN THE SUPER BOWL trade. If they don't, who cares if they got better only to then LOSE him in a year or two or three? This doesn't build anything. Win, awesome - totally worth it. Anything else - you lost valuable picks and still don't have another Super Bowl and your fans go back to feeling like "same old jets." I mean, there's value, I guess, in some success and maybe they can build on that, but this feels to me like a swing for the fences moment. Good luck.
From the Jets POV, what exactly was their alternative pathway to building a contending roster? And most rosters turn over within a few years anyways, so…whatever?

The Bucs - who, granted, had a better talent nucleus than these Jets - undoubtedly do not regret centering their personnel/cap strategy around TB12, even knowing a reset would come. It always does.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 23, 2001
10,229
Genuinely happy for my jet fan friends, but I'm not sure they feel the way I do: This is a JETS MUST WIN THE SUPER BOWL trade. If they don't, who cares if they got better only to then LOSE him in a year or two or three? This doesn't build anything. Win, awesome - totally worth it. Anything else - you lost valuable picks and still don't have another Super Bowl and your fans go back to feeling like "same old jets." I mean, there's value, I guess, in some success and maybe they can build on that, but this feels to me like a swing for the fences moment. Good luck.
Yes, exactly. Who is their QB a year from now, two years from now? Maybe Wilson benefits from being out of the spotlight and just practicing for the next year or two, but if the Jets don't win it all soon, this will just be another in the long parade of disappointments.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2007
17,178
Washington
The Jets have a small window to be really good that they didn't have before. Giving up a few picks for that opportunity is fine. I definitely don't see this deal as a fail if they don't win the Super Bowl. We all know how competitive the conference is.
 

Plantiers Wart

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 16, 2002
4,092
west hartford
I wonder if the move back to 15 will see the Jets picking Bijan Robinson -- seems like a great weapon to add for Rodgers and a nice complement to Breece Hall. Maybe even coupled with a trace back a few spots to regain some of the draft capital sent out for AR8.
They have backs. They need to grab a tackle, and I'm not sure the calculus changed much on that. There are a few to go around at this spot in the draft.
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
15,667
This is more of a general "the Jets suck" point than Rodgers commentary, but I couldn't get over this stat from Bill Barnwell's column on the trade:
First of all, that’s an amazing stat. Secondly that whole 1972 vote is weird. Was there an actual deserving MVP that year? Two votes for Packers kicker Chester Marcol? I have no recollection of a kicker ever getting an MVP vote.
 

nolasoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 11, 2004
6,930
Displaced
First of all, that’s an amazing stat. Secondly that whole 1972 vote is weird. Was there an actual deserving MVP that year? Two votes for Packers kicker Chester Marcol? I have no recollection of a kicker ever getting an MVP vote.
Mark Moseley (Washington) won in 1982.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,403
around the way
First of all, that’s an amazing stat. Secondly that whole 1972 vote is weird. Was there an actual deserving MVP that year? Two votes for Packers kicker Chester Marcol? I have no recollection of a kicker ever getting an MVP vote.
Back when a 6-3 game wasn't unusual, a kicker might be your most valuable player.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
61,996
New York City
I wonder if the move back to 15 will see the Jets picking Bijan Robinson -- seems like a great weapon to add for Rodgers and a nice complement to Breece Hall. Maybe even coupled with a trace back a few spots to regain some of the draft capital sent out for AR8.
I gotta be honest, there is a 0% chance they would pick Robinson.
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,646
Arkansas
Not that this is official or anything, but look at this: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/aaron-rodgers-trade-ranking-all-the-afc-nfc-starting-qbs-after-packers-jets-strike-blockbuster-deal/

AFC
  1. Patrick Mahomes (Chiefs)
  2. Joe Burrow (Bengals)
  3. Josh Allen (Bills)
  4. Justin Herbert (Chargers)
  5. Trevor Lawrence (Jaguars)
  6. Aaron Rodgers (Jets)
  7. Lamar Jackson (Ravens)
  8. Deshaun Watson (Browns)
  9. Tua Tagovailoa (Dolphins)
  10. Jimmy Garoppolo (Raiders)
  11. Russell Wilson (Broncos)
  12. Kenny Pickett (Steelers)
  13. Ryan Tannehill (Titans)
  14. Mac Jones (Patriots)
  15. Gardner Minshew (Colts)
  16. Davis Mills (Texans)
NFC
  1. Jalen Hurts (Eagles)
  2. Dak Prescott (Cowboys)
  3. Kirk Cousins (Vikings)
  4. Justin Fields (Bears)
  5. Jared Goff (Lions)
  6. Geno Smith (Seahawks)
  7. Derek Carr (Saints)
  8. Daniel Jones (Giants)
  9. Jordan Love (Packers)
  10. Trey Lance / Brock Purdy (49ers)
  11. Matthew Stafford (Rams)
  12. Kyler Murray (Cardinals)
  13. Andy Dalton (Panthers)
  14. Sam Howell (Commanders)
  15. Baker Mayfield (Buccaneers)
  16. Desmond Ridder (Falcons)

The list of AFC quarterbacks is SO much better than the NFC list, it's not even funny. I don't know if I'd rank them all exactly as cbssports does here but the point is simply that the AFC dominates in terms of QB quality. And we all know - even people like me who tend to really be Mac supporters - how far down the list Mac is. Which.....isn't good news for the Patriots. Ugh. And other than Rodgers, the guys at the top of the AFC are all young:

Mahomes (27)
Burrow (26)
Allen (26)
Herbert (25)
Lawrence (23)
Jackson (26)
Watson (27)
Tua (25)

The Pats have their work cut out for them. Big time.
wilson is better than tua and mac is at least 11 in the afc
 
Apr 24, 2019
1,278
From the Jets POV, what exactly was their alternative pathway to building a contending roster? And most rosters turn over within a few years anyways, so…whatever?

The Bucs - who, granted, had a better talent nucleus than these Jets - undoubtedly do not regret centering their personnel/cap strategy around TB12, even knowing a reset would come. It always does.
That’s why I said they have to win a Super Bowl. You know, like the Bucs did.
 

Mystic Merlin

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 21, 2007
46,767
Hartford, CT
That’s why I said they have to win a Super Bowl. You know, like the Bucs did.
That wasn’t really my point; the point was that the Jets are now a relevant contender whereas they were not a week ago and would not be with the alternative to Rodgers. You are vastly overrating the importance of the conditional first and the second to their short or long-term trajectory, while understating the risk of going several more years without an answer, much less one as good as Rodgers, at the most important position.
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
12,749
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
From the Jets POV, what exactly was their alternative pathway to building a contending roster? And most rosters turn over within a few years anyways, so…whatever?

The Bucs - who, granted, had a better talent nucleus than these Jets - undoubtedly do not regret centering their personnel/cap strategy around TB12, even knowing a reset would come. It always does.
Did the Bucs have a better talent nucleus than these Jets? Not so sure about that.

Edit: actually kind of funny, the 2019 Bucs ranked 6th in defensive EPA/Play and 27th in rushing offense EPA/Play, the 2022 Jets ranked 6th in defensive EPA/Play and 24th in rushing offense EPA/Play. They were similar teams with one being way more sabotaged by their QB than the other. Bucs had better front seven and receivers, Jets have better secondary and running game with Hall healthy. I think they're in very similar spots.
 

Justthetippett

New Member
Aug 9, 2015
2,391
Did the Bucs have a better talent nucleus than these Jets? Not so sure about that.

Edit: actually kind of funny, the 2019 Bucs ranked 6th in defensive EPA/Play and 27th in rushing offense EPA/Play, the 2022 Jets ranked 6th in defensive EPA/Play and 24th in rushing offense EPA/Play. They were similar teams with one being way more sabotaged by their QB than the other. Bucs had better front seven and receivers, Jets have better secondary and running game with Hall healthy. I think they're in very similar spots.
I think the big difference for Brady was the presence of the veteran receivers (plus Gronk). That would be kind of like Adams coming to join Rodgers. Lazard is nowhere close to that level. The defenses are comparable. Brady also had the benefit (for him and other vets) of the weird COVID year. His mental toughness gave him an edge in that chaos, I think.
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
12,749
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
I think the big difference for Brady was the presence of the veteran receivers (plus Gronk). That would be kind of like Adams coming to join Rodgers. Lazard is nowhere close to that level. The defenses are comparable. Brady also had the benefit (for him and other vets) of the weird COVID year. His mental toughness gave him an edge in that chaos, I think.
No way does 2020 Gronk remotely compare to current day Davante Adams. As a receiver at that stage he actually is a lot more comparable to Lazard.
 

Justthetippett

New Member
Aug 9, 2015
2,391
No way does 2020 Gronk remotely compare to current day Davante Adams. As a receiver at that stage he actually is a lot more comparable to Lazard.
I meant the whole group (Evans, Goodwin, Gronk, Brown). Adding Adams to Wilson and co would be the comparison.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,617
Jets still have Corey Davis (I’m kind of surprised). So, Davis, Lazard, G Wilson, Hardman is pretty good plus they have decent TEs. They also even have decent Oline guys the question is will they be healthy. They still have a 1st and a 2nd rounder. The team is solid. They can always fuck it up, but it’s the best roster I’ve seen them have on paper.
 
Last edited:

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
12,749
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
Jets still have Corey Davis (I’m kind of surprised). So, Davis, Lazard, G Wilson, Hardman is pretty good plus they have decent TEs. They also even have decent Oline guys the question is will they be healthy. They still have a 1st and a 2nd rounder. The team is solid. They can always fuck it up, but it’s the best roster I’ve seen them have on paper.
Do you think it's better than the 2010 team, QB aside?
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,054
Hingham, MA
Pats fans, how would you have felt with Belichick making this move?
3 years ago would have loved it. Keep trying to win rings.

Present day? Pass, too many question marks around how long he will play.

But if I was a Jets fan I'd be all in. It's not like drafting QBs in the top 6 has worked out for them over the past 15 years.
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
12,749
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
Pats fans, how would you have felt with Belichick making this move?
Pretty good. Would lead to a way more competitive team for the next two seasons and I don't think they'll be in a great spot to contend with Mac Jones in 2025 anyway. If they could do the same deal the Jets did and flipped Mac Jones for a second rounder, then we'd be talking basically a 2024 first round pick for two years of Rodgers. Then you draft the next guy.
 

Justthetippett

New Member
Aug 9, 2015
2,391
Pats fans, how would you have felt with Belichick making this move?
I'd definitely be talking myself into it. I personally find Rodgers' arrogance to be very annoying, but there's no doubting his talent and track record. And as a partnership, him and BB would be fascinating.

At the same time, the last few Brady years were exhausting. It felt like the BB/Brady legacy was this fine piece of china that we wanted to protect at all costs. It wouldn't be the same with Rodgers, but I would worry that some of that expectation to win within a one or two year window would make the fan experience more stressful. I kind of like the rebuild after the long run of success. (This is the opposite of the Jets experience, which is why I would imagine the move has a 99.999% support rate.)
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
61,996
New York City
I'm not sold that Rodgers has enough left in the tank to be a difference-maker. His ANY/A last year was absolute junk and he's 39. Would not have been psyched.

edit: to be clear, I get why the Jets did it.
Rodgers was hurt almost all of last season. His receivers were pretty horrendous, too, especially considering they lost Adams from the previous few years.

He's got plenty in the tank and he will prove it because he's a petty baby that wants to prove things.

I can't believe people aren't understanding how great Aaron Rodgers is as a player. As a person, garbage. As a QB? He's one of the best ever.
 
Last edited:

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,403
around the way
Rodgers was hurt almost all of last season. His receivers were pretty horrendous, too, especially considering they lost Adams from the previous few years.

He's got plenty in the tank and he will prove it because he's a petty baby that wants to prove things.

I can't believe people aren't understanding how great Aaron Rodgers is as a player. As a person, garbage. As a QB? He's one of the best ever.
Who says that he's not one of the best ever? So was Joe Montana, and I wouldn't want Belichick to sign him to play QB either.

Maybe you're right, but he was junk last year. Nice TD/INT, but everything else was pretty bad. It's not crazy talk to think that he might be done. And for the development cycle where the Pats are, I wouldn't be psyched to move picks and eat huge cap for that guy.