PSA - Guess the Grades

JoePoulson

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My cards were delivered safely to PSA this morning! WHEW. I'll post updates here for those who are unfamiliar with the process and are curious. This is a learning experience for me as well, since this is my first submission:

61712


61713


In the meantime, let's all play GUESS THE GRADES!!!! The first card submitted in this order (the one on top and first to be graded, allegedly) was a 1955 Ted Williams:

61710

I have ZERO clue what to expect from PSA, and how they grade, etc. outside of they obviously grade pretty strict. So I have no expectations for any of my cards but am hoping for the best! This is a mix of curiosity/speculation/personal collection slabbing/YOLO, and if I lose a few bucks here and there? Shit happens. Anyway, for my guess...I'm torn between 7 and 8. I'll say 8, prolly come back as a 6! I think it's stunning, but I'm biased maybe.
 

Oil Can Dan

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I wish you all the luck! I have only submitted twice and I was thoroughly disappointed each time. Did you use a loop? That’s a gorgeous card but that top right corner worries me a little.
 

santadevil

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I wish you all the luck! I have only submitted twice and I was thoroughly disappointed each time. Did you use a loop? That’s a gorgeous card but that top right corner worries me a little.
I'm scared to get mine graded too, but I'm sure I will at some point
Especially if this goes well for @JoePoulson

What does the bolded mean?
 

JoePoulson

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I did not, and honestly didn't even think to do so. I assume a loop is someone who checks out the cards before you submit, to give you a rough idea of what to maybe expect? Smart, probably should have. BUT I know me and I would have gone forward regardless! Bring me my 6's!!!!
 

luckiestman

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Isn’t a loop like a magnifying glass a jeweler uses?

Edit: apparently that’s a loupe
 

Traut

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I wish you all the luck! I have only submitted twice and I was thoroughly disappointed each time. Did you use a loop? That’s a gorgeous card but that top right corner worries me a little.
Top right corner, top left corner, bottom left corner, bottom right corner, some centering issues, an issue with the green ink on the bottom, and black spots as surface issues on the back.

I think this grades a 3.5 to 4.

Starts a a 10, loses -1 for each corner, -1 for centering, and -1 to -2 for surface/ink issues - ergo 3.5 to 4.
 

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Ed Hillel

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I've graded probably around 2500 cards with PSA, and I can confidently say that's exactly the type of card that has a huge grade variance based on the grader you get. That green mark on the back bottom left alone...some would dock you to an 8 for that, others to a 5. My personal guess is you get a 6-7, but really nothing would surprise me. If you get that grader that would dock it to a 5 based on the ink, you're probably looking at a 4. If you do get that 4, it might be worth a re-sub, I've done that often with pretty good success.

Either way, awesome card and good luck!
 

Traut

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I've graded probably around 2500 cards with PSA, and I can confidently say that's exactly the type of card that has a huge grade variance based on the grader you get. That green mark on the back bottom left alone...some would dock you to an 8 for that, others to a 5. My personal guess is you get a 6-7, but really nothing would surprise me. If you get that grader that would dock it to a 5 based on the ink, you're probably looking at a 4. If you do get that 4, it might be worth a re-sub, I've done that often with pretty good success.

Either way, awesome card and good luck!
I have graded one card and never again. I had it inspected before hand at my LCS and cleaned - and it came back an 8 and I have no idea why. LCS thought a 10. They had no clue either. For the life of me I can't figure it out.

I base my numbers solely from looking at vintage grades on eBay. It is awfully rare for cards from the 50s to grade above a 6 (see pop chart above). There are however many beautiful cards that are 3-5s (again great variation). In part you are applying modern grading standards to 70 year old pieces of ink a cardboard.
 

Ed Hillel

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I have graded one card and never again. I had it inspected before hand at my LCS and cleaned - and it came back an 8 and I have no idea why. LCS thought a 10. They had no clue either. For the life of me I can't figure it out.

I base my numbers solely from looking at vintage grades on eBay. It is awfully rare for cards from the 50s to grade above a 6 (see pop chart above). There are however many beautiful cards that are 3-5s (again great variation). In part you are applying modern grading standards to 70 year old pieces of ink a cardboard.
Yeah, this is probably fair, all my stuff is modern, so it may well come in under 5. Then again, a lot of the reason you don't see higher graded older stuff on Ebay is because people generally send those to the high end auction companies.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I think it comes in at a 5, and if you get the right grader, maybe a 6. The corners don't look that bad (I've got a '54 Duke Snider sitting in front of me that's a 4 with worse corners and centering). The centering on that card is actually really good for a '55. Surface is the wild card here, so hard to tell what that looks like from pics.
 

Traut

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I think it comes in at a 5, and if you get the right grader, maybe a 6. The corners don't look that bad (I've got a '54 Duke Snider sitting in front of me that's a 4 with worse corners and centering). The centering on that card is actually really good for a '55. Surface is the wild card here, so hard to tell what that looks like from pics.
I love vintage cards and I'm a big fan of buying the card and not the grade. The grading is inconsistent at best. At least if it is graded the market will believe it is authentic. I don't sell cards either so I don't really care. A 3 that looks great or a 5 that is meh is all the same to me. When you start going 6 and above the prices jump significantly.
 

JoePoulson

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I love the discussion so far! Seriously folks, I appreciate it all and learn a ton. Next up are #2 and #3, both 1956 Ted Williams, one gray back, one white back:

61750

Again, I think they're gorgeous cards, but being realistic and reading posts from the pros, these are for sure like 3s or 4s....maybe. I'll say a 4 on the gray and a 3 on the white.
 

jmcc5400

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I never knew Ted grew an inch and lost 7 pounds between 1955 and 1956. (These are gorgeous cards - a real thrill to see them. Thanks for sharing).
 

Deathofthebambino

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I love the discussion so far! Seriously folks, I appreciate it all and learn a ton. Next up are #2 and #3, both 1956 Ted Williams, one gray back, one white back:


Again, I think they're gorgeous cards, but being realistic and reading posts from the pros, these are for sure like 3s or 4s....maybe. I'll say a 4 on the gray and a 3 on the white.
Hard to tell the corners, etc. from the photos, but the centering on the back on both cards (especially the white) are pretty off. I think you're looking at 4-5 on the gray, and 2-3 on the white, unless those corners are really sharp. The centering on the front of each is again, pretty damn good for a '56.
 

AlNipper49

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JP, I love that card. Congrats on such a nice one. That's the card that pops to mind when I think of Ted Williams
 

JoePoulson

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Thanks man, yea same with me. Always have been my fave Teds, as I'm a sucker for that landscape orientation.
 

JoePoulson

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The rest of the items are autographed! #4 on the list is a 2014 Stadium Club Mookie Betts:

61789

Card is prolly like a 5 or 6? But the auto will be presumably higher. Again not sure how they grade exactly with autos, but I assume a good solid line, etc. That one maybe an 8? Can't wait to find out!
 

Traut

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The rest of the items are autographed! #4 on the list is a 2014 Stadium Club Mookie Betts:


Card is prolly like a 5 or 6? But the auto will be presumably higher. Again not sure how they grade exactly with autos, but I assume a good solid line, etc. That one maybe an 8? Can't wait to find out!
Auto will grade a 10. Basically the only way the don’t get 10s is smudging. No smudging there.

I think you get a 6 based on corners being pretty beatenup.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Auto will grade a 10. Basically the only way the don’t get 10s is smudging. No smudging there.

I think you get a 6 based on corners being pretty beatenup.
This is correct. That auto is a 10 all day long,

I might go 7 on the card.
 

JoePoulson

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#5 on the list is the 2022 Stadium Club Mike Trout that I pulled a couple months ago:

61818

Definitely the best conditioned card we've seen so far, still not perfect though. An 8 perhaps? I assume the auto will be a 10 again?
 

Traut

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#5 on the list is the 2022 Stadium Club Mike Trout that I pulled a couple months ago:


Definitely the best conditioned card we've seen so far, still not perfect though. An 8 perhaps? I assume the auto will be a 10 again?
Auto is a 10 and card is an 8 or 9. Really only one visible bad corner.
 

JoePoulson

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My orders are progressing:

61826

A buddy who is a huge Pokemon card collector told me he went to Collect-A-Con this past weekend here in Orlando. I've been so busy with everything that I completely spaced and missed that whole show. PSA had a booth here and everything! I need to pay better attention, boyos...I sometimes I forget where I live and that we have stuff going on 24x7.
 

JoePoulson

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Card #6 is another familiar one, the 2022 Topps Update Manny Ramirez that I posted recently. Card #7 is a "new" one, a different version of the same card (@NJ_Sox_Fan you said you wanted one, I will be moving this one once I get it back if you're interested!). I lost my mind bidding on this one before eventually seeing the red one, hence the dupes:

61849

61850

I assume both cards will be in the 7-8 range, with hopefully both autos at a 10.
 

Traut

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Card #6 is another familiar one, the 2022 Topps Update Manny Ramirez that I posted recently. Card #7 is a "new" one, a different version of the same card (@NJ_Sox_Fan you said you wanted one, I will be moving this one once I get it back if you're interested!). I lost my mind bidding on this one before eventually seeing the red one, hence the dupes:



I assume both cards will be in the 7-8 range, with hopefully both autos at a 10.
I think these both grade 8s. They are nice cards with some minor edge and corner issues.
Autos are both 10s. No smudging or ink issues.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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Card #6 is another familiar one, the 2022 Topps Update Manny Ramirez that I posted recently. Card #7 is a "new" one, a different version of the same card (@NJ_Sox_Fan you said you wanted one, I will be moving this one once I get it back if you're interested!). I lost my mind bidding on this one before eventually seeing the red one, hence the dupes:



I assume both cards will be in the 7-8 range, with hopefully both autos at a 10.
Love it
 

JoePoulson

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Next up is another 2022 Stadium Club, but one of my favorite cards to have come out recently:

61909

I've said it several times before but Stadium Club is my favorite product. And it's incredible pictures like that, in landscape orientation of course, with Jr and his backwards hat and that big grin on his face. Pops right next to him laughing away. Just pure joy that encapsulates the best baseball has to offer. And his autograph is just sublime. Really an incredible card in my opinion. As for a grade, unfortunately it's not perfect, so hoping for a 9, prolly an 8. Hope the auto is a 10 as well but this one has what I worry about with not so thick pen lines. We'll see!
 

JoePoulson

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For those who participated in the recent Stadium Club break or saw the hits, the next card is a crazy coincidence:

61998

Card looks incredible to me, maybe some issues at the top of the back? Worry about that auto too! Regardless it's a beaut.

Right now 11 out of 13 cards are in the "grading" phase!
 

The_Dali

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Following. This is a great thread. My nephew is 15 and CRAZY about card collecting. I had been out of it for years and he started to tell me about the PSA process and how everything is worthless until it is graded. Really quite a racket the grading companies have created... $$ to get the card "assessed" otherwise it is worthless (generally). But that is the state of the hobby now. I have a ton of 70s cards and a bunch of hockey and baseball, but it would cost a small fortune to get them all graded.

Best of luck - I'll be following this!

(on a side note he loves Bobby Dalbac and has a ton of autographed cards... I'm too soft to tell him Bobby isn't long for this team...)
 

Fishercat

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Following. This is a great thread. My nephew is 15 and CRAZY about card collecting. I had been out of it for years and he started to tell me about the PSA process and how everything is worthless until it is graded. Really quite a racket the grading companies have created... $$ to get the card "assessed" otherwise it is worthless (generally). But that is the state of the hobby now. I have a ton of 70s cards and a bunch of hockey and baseball, but it would cost a small fortune to get them all graded.

Best of luck - I'll be following this!

(on a side note he loves Bobby Dalbac and has a ton of autographed cards... I'm too soft to tell him Bobby isn't long for this team...)
I think generally people overgrade a lot of cards in terms of what gets sent in relative to value. The ones Joe has be en doing all make sense to me for different reasons (personally I wouldn't have graded the Mookie with the damage but the WIlliams are higher end vintage and the more recent stuff are autos of premier players, I get it), but I feel like a lot of the sports card influencer types really push grading on cards that have no business having it. Some of it is personal interest, some of it is likely just bragging rights or speculation, but it's overkill for most cards IMO.

For me, I don't get much graded if ever, but generally I follow these rules - at least one needs to be true - ideally more than one

  • If the card gets the grade I think it would, the net value would be higher (raw + grading costs < graded card)
  • I want it slabbed for my personal collection for whatever reason
  • It's a card that has a real number of reprints, customs, and/or fakes present in the market
  • There is a sale and I'm speculating on a card's value increasing in the future*

Like, just to take an example from your universe - the 1972 Clemente "In Action" card. A late era Clemente subset card but still one of his more iconic and affordable cards - high end player from a well loved set. Ungraded copies generally range $2-$20 on Ebay. Let's say a raw copy is $20 mid-grade (ungraded is cheaper usually but this only works if a card has a chance at something in that mid-range and I saw those mid-range type cards around there). Graded, a PSA 5 of that card is $45ish, a PSA6 is 60ish. It costs ~25 or so to grade a card (with cost per card reducing with more cards sent. Your value is eaten up by the grading process - unless you get to that 6-7+ range. On modern or ultra-modern cards, unless it's something that is particularly difficult to grade (thick stock cards, 90s foil cards), I probably wouldn't send in a card unless I think it's pulling in an 8+ and meeting one of those above rules. I posted a Tony Gwynn 1992 Elite in the other thread. I don't think I'm ever going to grade it but that would need to be a PSA9 to justify the cost of grading.


Ungraded cards do sell for less than higher end graded cards but there's a spectrum and a lor of buyers are willing to trust their eyes on condition. Don't feel pressured into grading much. I think if you have cards that are hugely desirable (think high end HoFer, HoF Rookies, etc.) or are in absolutely pristine condition (the cards are like half a century old, if they are minty fresh they're worth something) it could be worth it but ungraded is just as fun and interesting IMO. I think about 85% of my 1953 Bowman set are ungraded cards and I only felt like two needed to be graded due to the danger of reprints. The rest were just the right deals (and in some cases I think a low grade brought the price down).

All of this to say, a LOT of people paid PSA 30 bucks and waited a year to grade their 2020Topps Luis Robert rookie cards to get this return

Luis Robert #392 Prices [Rookie] | 2020 Topps | Baseball Cards (sportscardspro.com)

*On the last bullet, sometimes PSA will offer a holiday sale or, like, right now SGC has $9 2023 Topps grading. That'd probably get me to send in some cards I'd otherwise keep raw, but then I see people sending in cards that are dollar box cards and it's like...what's the point of this?
 
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JoePoulson

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I do indeed regret ordering the Mookie card grade, should have gone auto only. But I'm not really into auto-only grades so much, hence my original decision.

Certainly this won't be something I do very often, if ever again. Unless I just happen to hit something worthwhile, now that I kind of know better what to submit.
 

The_Dali

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*On the last bullet, sometimes PSA will offer a holiday sale or, like, right now SGC has $9 2023 Topps grading. That'd probably get me to send in some cards I'd otherwise keep raw, but then I see people sending in cards that are dollar box cards and it's like...what's the point of this?
And that is the issue with the industry - they grading companies have created a cash cow for this whole process that doesn't apply to most of the product. AND, it is kinda crazy that BRAND NEW cards need to get graded given the current manufacturing processes in place (like, 60 year old cards have all sorts of printing anomalies, but 2022 cards???)
 

Fishercat

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And that is the issue with the industry - they grading companies have created a cash cow for this whole process that doesn't apply to most of the product. AND, it is kinda crazy that BRAND NEW cards need to get graded given the current manufacturing processes in place (like, 60 year old cards have all sorts of printing anomalies, but 2022 cards???)
Agreed, and honestly, I don't think there is a meaningful difference between a 9 and a 10, or even an 8 and a 10 for 99% of collectors...until the number is put on it. Especially in modern cards. Of the 2200 Jackson Chourio 2022 Bowman Chrome base or base auto cards PSA has graded, only 5 back below an 8 and 51 below a 9. 4/5 were a Gem Mint 10. I think there's some fringe cases where it matters more - the more likely the card is to be flawed the wider range you get - but it's really pretty silly for a lot of modern cards. The killer is that people will actually pay for the difference. Coming from collecting hobbies which have minimal usage for these kinds of services (Funko Pops are just starting authentication despite fakes being rampant and Records almost never have that, nevermind grading), the obsession in cards is funny to me like it maters in any meaningful way if a NM-MT, Mint, or Gem Mint and how the first one is worth less than the card without any grade and the last one is 2x+ higher in value.
 

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JoePoulson

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The next card is one I didn't think I'd win, as I expected a #/5 Ichiro to go higher, but I fucked around and found out (2022 Stadium Club Beam Team):

62028
 

Ale Xander

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Can you recommend a video on how to prep/package the cards so they don’t get hurt in shipping?
 

JoePoulson

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It's super-easy! Start here:

PSA Submission Guidelines

And hit me with any questions. I submitted 13 cards in 4 different orders in the same box. One of which was an oversized card I packed separately from the other 12. Those other 12 went together exactly how you see in that link. Then they both (the 12 pack and the 1 pack) went in a box to California.

My other package used these guidelines:

Autograph Submissions

I put both items in their own sleeves then inbetween pieces of cardboard, then in a box.
 

JoePoulson

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The next card is for sure in PSA 10 condition! It was a gift from one of my dad's friends back in the late 80s, and I took it to a show in Little Rock not long after to have Brooks sign it (he's from Little Rock). He was so nice and talked to me about the card and his '61 season for a bit. 100% a personal treasure and will never sell, obviously, but want that encapsulation finally and the hilarious grade to go with it:

62071
 

LogansDad

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The next card is for sure in PSA 10 condition! It was a gift from one of my dad's friends back in the late 80s, and I took it to a show in Little Rock not long after to have Brooks sign it (he's from Little Rock). He was so nice and talked to me about the card and his '61 season for a bit. 100% a personal treasure and will never sell, obviously, but want that encapsulation finally and the hilarious grade to go with it:

No joke, I think I have that exact same card signed by him. Got it in a grab bag from my local card shop..... here in Little Rock.

Your order going through is making me want to get some of mine graded. I have two Soto autos (TSC, /25 and /10) that I have been considering, a Witt Jr (Bowman Platiunum auto /50), and mookie 1st Bowman, among others, that I have been considering sending in, but the though of not being able to look at them for a really long time gives me shivers, LOL.
 

JoePoulson

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The next card is part of my 2022 Stadium Club Papi rainbow, and is a forever card / set (I always plan on keeping my cards, but after a while I accumulate too many and inevitably sell some off, but not the Forevers):

62174
 

Traut

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The next card is part of my 2022 Stadium Club Papi rainbow, and is a forever card / set (I always plan on keeping my cards, but after a while I accumulate too many and inevitably sell some off, but not the Forevers):

Beautiful card could very well be a 10.

Pop reports have these cards getting a 9 most of the time. Probably edge and surface issues given their glossy nature and to edge photos.

I will go a 10 here as I don’t see anything.

Don’t grade the auto as I think it comes in less than a 10 based upon ink being transparent.
 
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Ed Hillel

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That part of my order is going so fast!

PSA right now is super fast. The hired a ton of new people and expanded facilities following the unprecedented 2021 collectibles explosion and CU acquisition, and now the mid- and low-card markets have tanked, so they have all this stuff in place and a smaller fraction of the work. There are also unconfirmed rumors they started implementing computer technology on the bulk orders, though, as I said, it’s not confirmed.
 

JoePoulson

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OK here's the final card! It's another Forever, again the 2022 Stadium Club Papi, this time the oversided box topper auto:

62199

This one is currently being graded!
 

JoePoulson

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AND WE HAVE GRADES!!!! The bundle of eight cards have been graded and are their way back to me. The lessons I have learned, and were almost immediately posted in this thread, are that it's mos def not worth it unless you know for sure-sure you're gonna get those high grades OR you just want them slabbed for your PC. And that I have NO CLUE how they grade! Enjoy!

62200

62201
 

Deathofthebambino

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LOL at the Trout and Griffey autos getting 9's and not 10's.

Based on what I see every fucking day, the Rivera is a 9, not an 8. If Ortiz is a 9, than Fruitbat should have been as well.
 

Ale Xander

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How is the Rivera auto an 8? I don’t get it

either it’s authentic or it’s not