2023 PGA Tour
- Thread starter cshea
- Start date
Monahan did his annual "State of the Tour" type press conference yesterday at the Players, mostly confirming the changes that were released last week, but with a few more details.
Secondary to all that, the Match play is ending. This year will be the last one. That's kind of a bummer to me, I enjoy that week and the golf course.
Finally, there's been more chatter about how to handle LIV players who either want to come back or LIV folds. That's currently a hypothetical but it appears there's some smoke around some LIV players feeling regret or wanting back in and it is a discussion point amongst Tour players. Monahan essentially ignored the question because of legal issues so who knows what is being discussed, if anything. I honestly have no idea how to handle it, it's an extremely complex problem to solve.
- 8 designated events next year, field sizes between 70-80, no cut
- The top 50 of this seasons (2022-2023) FedEx Cup list will be exempt into all of the designated events next season
- The top 10 on the current season FedEx Cup list not already exempt will get in
- The schedule is changing to space out the designated events. As a result, there will be spots for the top 5 FedEx point gainers during the non-designated tournaments in between the designated ones
- Top 30 in OWGR not otherwise qualified (I don't see how this can happen but assume it's a path for getting DP World Tour guys in)
- 4 sponsor exemptions (this would be the Tiger/Rickie clause although Rickie is on his way back in)
- There is no mandatory participation rule. The belief is essentially that the events will be so lucrative in money and points that a very small numbner of players will choose to skip any given event.
Secondary to all that, the Match play is ending. This year will be the last one. That's kind of a bummer to me, I enjoy that week and the golf course.
Finally, there's been more chatter about how to handle LIV players who either want to come back or LIV folds. That's currently a hypothetical but it appears there's some smoke around some LIV players feeling regret or wanting back in and it is a discussion point amongst Tour players. Monahan essentially ignored the question because of legal issues so who knows what is being discussed, if anything. I honestly have no idea how to handle it, it's an extremely complex problem to solve.
Sports Illustrated ran something of an early obituary for LIV today: https://www.si.com/golf/news/the-battle-for-golf-supremacy-is-over-and-liv-lost
That sounds about right. The Tour smoked LIV in the first head-to-head ratings battle, 2.4 million average viewers to 290,000 for LIV, though LIV is cooking the books and reporting their own numbers. And the PGA Tour tournament that week was the Honda Classic which featured...nobody (me, a pro golf sicko, didn't even watch).
The Saudi's have deep pockets, some of the players signed multi-year committments, so who knows how long they keep the charade running, but it's hard to see them gaining traction from where they are now. They aren't getting any new noteworthy players. Even with Cam, DJ and others nobody is watching and it's hard to see that changing. There's already rumblings of players, notably Koepka, feeling pangs of regret and potentially asking around about coming back.
https://golf.com/news/liv-golf-tv-ratings-truth/
The Saudi's have deep pockets, some of the players signed multi-year committments, so who knows how long they keep the charade running, but it's hard to see them gaining traction from where they are now. They aren't getting any new noteworthy players. Even with Cam, DJ and others nobody is watching and it's hard to see that changing. There's already rumblings of players, notably Koepka, feeling pangs of regret and potentially asking around about coming back.
https://golf.com/news/liv-golf-tv-ratings-truth/
I feel like all that does is punish the KFT guys.
I say let them all go be Club Pros somewhere in Antarctica or something.
That’s kinda the problem. Wherever you let them re-enter, you’re displacing Tour players. Additionally, do you treat Cam, DJ, Brooks and Bryson differently than Talor Gooch and Abe Ancer because the former are “stars”?
Buy back in. 30% of whatever LIV guaranteed them. Proceeds go to PGA charities. And it’s one Mulligan. Leave again, and it’s a true lifetime ban.
Agreed but it’s a one time punishment that’s really just a correction of the previous disruption that gave a disproportionate number of KFT guys the chance to get established. Plus a lot of the LIV guys are on the down swing and with the 1 year layoff it might be fun to watch them struggle against the up and comers.
I may be in the minority but I'd like to see the Tour take the high road here. If it were me, I'd let the players back in if they are exempt. Say, for example, someone like Koepka, Cam Smith or DJ is exempt because of their world rankings or most recent tour win, then they should be allowed to play in what they are exempt for.
The other guys, the Pat Perez's or the Kevin Na's of the world, if they aren't exempt to play in anything then they have to go the Korn Ferry Tour route.
I guess what I'm saying is treat it like they just took a year off. Their clock was still ticking for exemptions, they just opted not to play.
As a fan of the tour but more importantly a fan of golf, the quality of play is better if those guys are playing. Plus imagine the drama if some of them do return? It would make for great viewing.
The other guys, the Pat Perez's or the Kevin Na's of the world, if they aren't exempt to play in anything then they have to go the Korn Ferry Tour route.
I guess what I'm saying is treat it like they just took a year off. Their clock was still ticking for exemptions, they just opted not to play.
As a fan of the tour but more importantly a fan of golf, the quality of play is better if those guys are playing. Plus imagine the drama if some of them do return? It would make for great viewing.
I’m with Zomp. The one thing I heard last night that I also agreed with is that those that trashed the tour on their way out should have to apologize to the staffers as a precondition. I think it was actually Horschel that suggested that.
There should definitely be a fine since they left for cash in the first place.
I'll be in the even smaller minority and I say fuck those guys forever. Yes, I'm vengeful, but you all made your bed.
This probably isn't even really feasible, but if I never see any of these guys in a PGA tour again, that would be great with me.
This probably isn't even really feasible, but if I never see any of these guys in a PGA tour again, that would be great with me.
The KFT wasn’t really impacted by LIV. They didn’t hand out more cards than normal in 2022 to replace the LIV defectors. It was the standard 50.
Unless LIV stopped existing entirely, does anyone know how the contracts even work for these guys? Or are we only discussing this in a hypothetical scenario when LIV folds up shop?
I'm sure they got a bunch of money up front and leaving would be highly problematic even if they 100% wanted to.
Yeah, it’s hypothetical at this point but there seems to be lots of smoke about some LIV players feeling regretful. Obviously if LIV doesn’t fold it’s hard to see the Saudi’s letting these guys out of their contract.
There was some reporting that based docs released as part of the lawsuit that some of the current LIV players had an out (or contract terminated) after a year. Taylor Gooch was one mentioned.
Not directly but when the LIV guys left there was a void filled by the low end PGA guys which meant those guys weren’t competing with the KFT guys in the KFT finals.
This is what I would do. Just apply the rules in place. If the LIV tour falls apart within a year it's basically a gift. And you'll get the 10 guys who matter back and the rest can go back to being journeymen or whatever washed players do in the few years before they can hit the senior circuit.
I'm just a sports fan. More better players usually makes better sports. I agree with the high road. If it turns out that LIV starts leaking players, I think the marketplace of ideas will obviously know that LIV failed, and most of the returning players will have their collective tails between their legs. (The ones that were assholes before will likely continue to be). So no "punishment" is really needed.
Pretty good scores so far this morning. Weather looks good for the whole event, no rain, mild temps, and highest sustained wind on the PGA sight weather forecast is showing 14mph. If that holds, they're going to tear it up.
I also agree with Zoom’s take on LIV players returning.
FWIW, Rahm said in recent interview that his opinion is the recent changes to the Tour don’t happen if LIV didn’t happen. I’m not sure If these changes will be good or bad overall, but to the extent the players are making decisions on LIV players being allowed back, perhaps there is not the same animosity as management.
FWIW, Rahm said in recent interview that his opinion is the recent changes to the Tour don’t happen if LIV didn’t happen. I’m not sure If these changes will be good or bad overall, but to the extent the players are making decisions on LIV players being allowed back, perhaps there is not the same animosity as management.
I would bet that overall, the animosity between players, especially top players, is much lower. These guys have been competing for possibly ~20 years. These are friends to many of them.
Rapaport just dropped an interview with Matt Fitzpatrick where Matt said lifetime ban for liv players and don’t come back soooooo
I would let them back. If we're taking this as an entertainment product, then having them back can only be a good thing. I want to see the best players in the world compete against each other as much as possibl, and letting the LIV guys back is one way to do it.
The problem is I think they need to face sufficient punsihment that meets the crime, but the punishment also isn't so penal that they say to hell with it. I have no idea what that looks like. My first though was to make them ineligible for the designated events for a season or some period of time. That would beef up the non-designated events even more and create a little drama for these guys trying to get back in while also not letting those players reap the financial benefits of the new structure. The problem is the rank and file PGA Tour players, who may already feel slighted, are now losing spots to the LIV guys. Another problem is they'll have to treat the LIV guys differently. Outside of the top 10 or so LIV guys, how do we even know these guys are PGA Tour quality players anymore? Kind of a wild ass though I had was that if LIV werer to fold entirely, the PGA Tour could set up some sort of special Q school for the LIV players.
The problem is I think they need to face sufficient punsihment that meets the crime, but the punishment also isn't so penal that they say to hell with it. I have no idea what that looks like. My first though was to make them ineligible for the designated events for a season or some period of time. That would beef up the non-designated events even more and create a little drama for these guys trying to get back in while also not letting those players reap the financial benefits of the new structure. The problem is the rank and file PGA Tour players, who may already feel slighted, are now losing spots to the LIV guys. Another problem is they'll have to treat the LIV guys differently. Outside of the top 10 or so LIV guys, how do we even know these guys are PGA Tour quality players anymore? Kind of a wild ass though I had was that if LIV werer to fold entirely, the PGA Tour could set up some sort of special Q school for the LIV players.
They left on their own accord. They should have to earn their way back in. I think it's that simple. (figuring out what that "earn your way back in" system is, isn't so simple, of course)
I have a question about the money they took. If they return, what happens to the money they took?
If you're an established player who turned down $50,000,000 from LIV and stuck with the tour, you don't want these guys to have gained any benefit from trying to tank the PGA Tour.
If you're an established player who turned down $50,000,000 from LIV and stuck with the tour, you don't want these guys to have gained any benefit from trying to tank the PGA Tour.
Well that's for the LIV guys to figure out with LIV, and laregly why this conversation is hypothetical at this point. I'd imagine the Saudi's aren't going to just let these guys leave if they ask nicely. During one of the lawsuits I believe a judge called the LIV contracts some of the most restrictive they've ever seen.
...then he makes a bogey at 13 and drives it into a bush on 14 and is taking an unplayable. The full Spieth experience in 5 holes.
Ramey is -1 through 2 and -9 for the tournament but there's a good chance Griffin at -6 is the leader at the end of the day. The wind is kicking up.
I think 3--Gordon, and then Hoge and Lowry who are both still under the cut line(good chance the line will move)
Ridiculous:
Also, Twitter video in bizarre brain damaged upright camera mode with the edges of the TV feed cut off is brutal.