Payton Pritchard: Season Savior

HomeRunBaker

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Hard to watch this game today and come away thinking Pritchard could not be an NBA rotation player.
Literally nobody has said that he can’t. This is one of the reasons why he wants to be traded…..to go to a non-stacked or non-contender so he CAN establish himself as a rotation player entering his FA year so he can get paid. The point some of us are making is that you don’t want him as a rotation player on your championship caliber team as it’s so easy to find better players….like we did this past year in White and Brogdon.
 

128

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Literally nobody has said that he can’t. This is one of the reasons why he wants to be traded…..to go to a non-stacked or non-contender so he CAN establish himself as a rotation player entering his FA year so he can get paid. The point some of us are making is that you don’t want him as a rotation player on your championship caliber team as it’s so easy to find better players….like we did this past year in White and Brogdon.
No doubt. But he's no more flawed than any number of players drawing NBA paychecks, so I hope he finds a good role somewhere—and I hope the C's can somehow get a decent return for him.
 

HomeRunBaker

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No doubt. But he's no more flawed than any number of players drawing NBA paychecks, so I hope he finds a good role somewhere—and I hope the C's can somehow get a decent return for him.
100% agree. I’m glad we kept him for this run as he could absolutely be needed to fill a number of roles…..injury replacement, second unit energy/shooting in the right matchup, etc. Set him free over the summer.
 

lovegtm

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100% agree. I’m glad we kept him for this run as he could absolutely be needed to fill a number of roles…..injury replacement, second unit energy/shooting in the right matchup, etc. Set him free over the summer.
I still don't get what the Celtics get in return for setting him free? I suppose if he can hook up with a power broker agent who gets it done to owe Brad a favor later, but it's gonna be tough for PP to set that up.
 

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Tough position for Pritchard, since he’s still a useful depth piece on this team. There has to be a lot of goodwill to gain if the Celtics are going to release him. Otherwise he will have to wait.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I still don't get what the Celtics get in return for setting him free? I suppose if he can hook up with a power broker agent who gets it done to owe Brad a favor later, but it's gonna be tough for PP to set that up.
It’s what teams and agents who have good relationships do both with stars and with marginal players for different reasons. No GM who cares about his relationship with the agents who control much of the leagues player movement is going to destroy their reputation over Payton Freakin Pritchard. Who knows….maybe Ross and Green’s agents didn’t steer their guy to Boston bc Brad isn’t taking care of them? Not insinuating that of course but this only one example of many where those relationships are important.
 

Imbricus

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The Memphis game was good for Pritchard, some decent minutes (18), and he had some time running the offense. I honestly don't get this "he's not a good passer" stuff. He hit Muscala cross court and Moose nailed a three-pointer. Inside, he slipped a pass to Grant for an easy bucket. When he was running the offense, he was aggressively moving the ball around, getting the defense in motion. He's a good ball handler (good assist-to-turnover ratio). I think his harshest critics are on this message board; I don't think other GMs view him as negatively as people here tend to do.

His big problem is he's six feet, and not terribly athletic, and he's not going to grow five or six inches anytime soon. So he's limited in any ability to create shots when he drives. But he does drive (as he did this game), and when he feels resistance, he looks to pass (which is a lot of the time, admittedly).

On defense, I don't think he's as bad as advertised either. I wish he could fight through screens better, but he has held his own against some good guards. Where he's most at danger is when a big (basically anyone 6' 6" or over) posts him up underneath. That's why he starts fighting like an angry hornet every time they try to back him down (and he's gotten called for some fouls doing so).

His three-point percentage is down this year, but I think that's more a function of not getting regular minutes. As I recall, last year his three-point percentage started trending up once he began playing more.

My prediction is he goes to a team where he plays more, and he flourishes (as a nice rotation piece probably, but I could see him making some starts too). The guy brings energy and has a lot of fight in him. If the standard trades this year are getting five second-round picks, he should be worth three at least. :)
 

Eddie Jurak

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The Memphis game was good for Pritchard, some decent minutes (18), and he had some time running the offense. I honestly don't get this "he's not a good passer" stuff. He hit Muscala cross court and Moose nailed a three-pointer. Inside, he slipped a pass to Grant for an easy bucket. When he was running the offense, he was aggressively moving the ball around, getting the defense in motion. He's a good ball handler (good assist-to-turnover ratio). I think his harshest critics are on this message board; I don't think other GMs view him as negatively as people here tend to do.

His big problem is he's six feet, and not terribly athletic, and he's not going to grow five or six inches anytime soon. So he's limited in any ability to create shots when he drives. But he does drive (as he did this game), and when he feels resistance, he looks to pass (which is a lot of the time, admittedly).

On defense, I don't think he's as bad as advertised either. I wish he could fight through screens better, but he has held his own against some good guards. Where he's most at danger is when a big (basically anyone 6' 6" or over) posts him up underneath. That's why he starts fighting like an angry hornet every time they try to back him down (and he's gotten called for some fouls doing so).

His three-point percentage is down this year, but I think that's more a function of not getting regular minutes. As I recall, last year his three-point percentage started trending up once he began playing more.

My prediction is he goes to a team where he plays more, and he flourishes (as a nice rotation piece probably, but I could see him making some starts too). The guy brings energy and has a lot of fight in him. If the standard trades this year are getting five second-round picks, he should be worth three at least. :)
I mostly agree with this. If he's going to be moved in the offseason, I hope there is a decent deal for him.
 

Euclis20

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It’s what teams and agents who have good relationships do both with stars and with marginal players for different reasons. No GM who cares about his relationship with the agents who control much of the leagues player movement is going to destroy their reputation over Payton Freakin Pritchard. Who knows….maybe Ross and Green’s agents didn’t steer their guy to Boston bc Brad isn’t taking care of them? Not insinuating that of course but this only one example of many where those relationships are important.
+1 to all of this. I get not moving Pritchard at the deadline for scraps in a year in which we're a title contender, but at this point I expect him to be moved for basically nothing in the offseason. He can be replaced by a player who is 80% as good (at least) this summer, which is a perfectly reasonable downgrade to make at his position. He's not going to get any better here, and he's the 4th pg or 5th guard on the roster. It's worth taking a tiny step back at that spot to maintain healthy relationships and create opportunities for brokers to owe you.
 

the moops

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but at this point I expect him to be moved for basically nothing in the offseason.
Does this happen frequently? I am unsure if I can remember a case where a capable, yet flawed backup, who at times has played an important role in a contender, gets dumped for nothing just to appease him. Pritchard has zero clout in this league and I expect the Celtics to hold onto him rather than give him away for nothing
 

lexrageorge

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Does this happen frequently? I am unsure if I can remember a case where a capable, yet flawed backup, who at times has played an important role in a contender, gets dumped for nothing just to appease him. Pritchard has zero clout in this league and I expect the Celtics to hold onto him rather than give him away for nothing
The Celtics do have a couple of 2nd round picks in the upcoming draft, along with JD Davison, Madar, and Begarin all waiting in the wings. So moving Pritchard for a future second does have benefit in that it opens a roster spot and potentially saves some marginal tax dollars, a consideration given Grant's pending RFA status. Celtics will also have taxpayer MLE available to use, so freeing up PP's roster spot and associated spend ($4M) is not the worst move for them.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Does this happen frequently? I am unsure if I can remember a case where a capable, yet flawed backup, who at times has played an important role in a contender, gets dumped for nothing just to appease him. Pritchard has zero clout in this league and I expect the Celtics to hold onto him rather than give him away for nothing
I don't know how frequently it happens but Korkmaz is asking for a trade for the same reason: https://fansided.com/2023/02/07/nba-trade-rumors-furkan-korkmaz-trade-request/

edit: surfing around the interweb a bit, one example is Hermangomez, who the NYK traded for two second-round draft picks and someone they were cutting. https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22356017/new-york-knicks-send-willy-hernangomez-charlotte-hornets.

Thon Maker also requested a trade but fetched back Stanley Johnson.

I'm sure other people will remember other trade demands.
 
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HomeRunBaker

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Does this happen frequently? I am unsure if I can remember a case where a capable, yet flawed backup, who at times has played an important role in a contender, gets dumped for nothing just to appease him. Pritchard has zero clout in this league and I expect the Celtics to hold onto him rather than give him away for nothing
It does happen all the time but with a much less sense of urgency with the nondescript player. We saw a couple examples at this deadline.

Thomas Bryant is expiring at end of the year so when Davis returned to the Lakers he lost most of his minutes and requested a trade prior to the Lakers moving him.

Korkmaz in Philly is one guy going through the same thing as Pritchard. The teams wants to keep him around for depth this year as he’s under contract but over the summer when roster movement is more active I’m sure they will move a guy who doesn’t want to be there if that remains the case.

Here is a great piece by Scotto that gives a behind the scenes look at an agents involvement and how the cat and mouse game sometimes develops. Good read.

https://hoopshype.com/2021/01/04/how-nba-players-ask-for-trades/
 

Strike4

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I worry that Hauser will turn back into a pumpkin at any time and that if PP is moved Hauser will wilt in the playoffs if he's needed. PP is better than Hauser like 60% of the time, but for the other 40% Hauser is like waaaaay better than PP will ever be. You just hope to keep the lightning in a bottle going I guess.

Not the worst problem in the world to have in any case...
 

HomeRunBaker

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I worry that Hauser will turn back into a pumpkin at any time and that if PP is moved Hauser will wilt in the playoffs if he's needed. PP is better than Hauser like 60% of the time, but for the other 40% Hauser is like waaaaay better than PP will ever be. You just hope to keep the lightning in a bottle going I guess.

Not the worst problem in the world to have in any case...
Hauser is one thing….a shooter. He’s going to spend his entire career going back to being a pumpkin at some point only to return to not be one. That’s the trajectory of a one-dimensional shooter. The problem for a guy like him comes in the playoffs as defensive intensity and close outs increase which often disrupts a shooter from their comfort zone…..as we’ve seen with Pritchard in the postseason.

That’s the value of a veteran like Danny Green who has a track record of his 3-pt% holding up under these conditions (Ross doesn’t have good playoff shooting success). Players who are capable of slowing the game down tend to shoot better in the playoffs opposed to those to need to play faster to matchup with the intensity.
 

benhogan

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It does happen all the time but with a much less sense of urgency with the nondescript player. We saw a couple examples at this deadline.

Thomas Bryant is expiring at end of the year so when Davis returned to the Lakers he lost most of his minutes and requested a trade prior to the Lakers moving him.

Korkmaz in Philly is one guy going through the same thing as Pritchard. The teams wants to keep him around for depth this year as he’s under contract but over the summer when roster movement is more active I’m sure they will move a guy who doesn’t want to be there if that remains the case.

Here is a great piece by Scotto that gives a behind the scenes look at an agents involvement and how the cat and mouse game sometimes develops. Good read.

https://hoopshype.com/2021/01/04/how-nba-players-ask-for-trades/
If I'm Cam Thomas' agent I'm kicking down Nets management's door. The kid put up 3 straight 40+ pts and you can only find him 18 minutes in the Philly game while they get shut down in Q4?

"Nice guy" Brad will most likely feather a nest for Payton elsewhere this summer along with Gallo since Hauser/Muscala will be here to take those shots.

The best way for this team to contend for numerous years is to get Jaylen signed to a super-max (then Tatum). Brad/Zarren will need to be savvy with the cost of the end of the roster players surrounding them. Unless they act like the most bombastic version of the Yankees Golden State Warriors I'm guessing the C's are probably reaching their limits as a taxpayer.

They have wisely devised a game plan with Maine to build a Celtic culture (similar to the Heat/Raptors). They are creating their own pipeline. Brad has used late firsts to build around the core & unload contracts (see Horford/Kemba, White, Brogdon). A 2nd rounder can be Eurostash or go to Maine on a 2-way. We recently debated the use of the 15th man. The Celtics have played games recently with 4 starters OUT and still had no need for a 15th man. So keeping that open or adding a Maine Celtic graduate (JDD? Kabengele? Semanic? Shayok?) makes fiscal sense, especially when the better NBA buyout candidates (ie Green) flock to situations where they can be in the rotation. Hauser/Kornet are two graduates of the Maine system, two usable players signed to dirt-cheap deals for multiple seasons. Expect more of this to fill up 10-15 on the roster as the JAYs get super expensive over the next 5 seasons.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2023/2/1/23577334/boston-celtics-g-league-maine-celtics-alex-barlow-sam-hauser-luke-kornet-jd-davison

I worry that Hauser will turn back into a pumpkin at any time and that if PP is moved Hauser will wilt in the playoffs if he's needed. PP is better than Hauser like 60% of the time, but for the other 40% Hauser is like waaaaay better than PP will ever be. You just hope to keep the lightning in a bottle going I guess.

Not the worst problem in the world to have in any case...
Size alone makes Hauser a better fit. Their switchy defensive scheme will always favor length on D. That's why we saw a closing lineup of Al/TL/Grant/Tatum/White dominate yesterday. Expect the C's to keep on bringing larger skilled players while avoiding shrimpy guards. Sorry Yam Madar

Hauser has consistently shot over 40% from 3 at every level of basketball over the last 6yrs. 3yrs at Marquette. 1yr at Virginia. 1yr at the NBA/Maine and this NBA season. He presently sits at 14th in the NBA (41.7%) on decent volume. Don't bank on him pumkining (he already had a month-long/hit-the-rookie wall slump) below 40%. His stroke is honed. Sam has also successfully adjusted to a higher/quicker release.

Will he wilt in the playoffs? You want to go with players that can get off shots in the half-court against a tighter defense. I'd bank on taller shooters getting 3s off in that scenario (Steph Curry aside).
 

HomeRunBaker

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They have wisely devised a game plan with Maine to build a Celtic culture (similar to the Heat/Raptors). They are creating their own pipeline. Brad has used late firsts to build around the core & unload contracts (see Horford/Kemba, White, Brogdon). A 2nd rounder can be Eurostash or go to Maine on a 2-way. We recently debated the use of the 15th man. The Celtics have played games recently with 4 starters OUT and still had no need for a 15th man. So keeping that open or adding a Maine Celtic graduate (JDD? Kabengele? Semanic? Shayok?) makes fiscal sense, especially when the better NBA buyout candidates (ie Green) flock to situations where they can be in the rotation. Hauser/Kornet are two graduates of the Maine system, two usable players signed to dirt-cheap deals for multiple seasons. Expect more of this to fill up 10-15 on the roster as the JAYs get super expensive over the next 5 seasons.
Don’t mistake my position here. There is a difference in someone like Hauser coming up from Maine THEN showing that his skillset can translate to where he can potentially fill a role…..with bringing someone up and signing him to a multi-year deal to FIND OUT if they can potentially fill a role. When you look at skillsets it is easier for a spot-up shooter to find a niche than an undersized PG who is turnover prone and inconsistent on both ends of the floor.

We didn’t use a 15th man yesterday because that player isn’t on the roster (yet). If we sign say a Barton and this same injury scenario plays out in the future he would certainly be called upon. There is a reason why JD isn’t in that role….it is bc the Celtics don’t feel like he is good enough or matches up well enough to contribute. I agree with them at this stage of his career.
 

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I may be missing something: a few posts have mentioned trying Gallo in the off season. Given he has a player option, does it seem likely he'll opt back in just to be immediately traded?
 

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I may be missing something: a few posts have mentioned trying Gallo in the off season. Given he has a player option, does it seem likely he'll opt back in just to be immediately traded?
Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I'd like to see a healthy Gallo suit up for the C's.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I may be missing something: a few posts have mentioned trying Gallo in the off season. Given he has a player option, does it seem likely he'll opt back in just to be immediately traded?
I expect Gallo to be here bc both sides likely want him to be here which isn’t the case with Pritchard. Gallo is at a different stage of his career than Pritchard who desperately needs playing time. Gallo doesn’t have any trade value to anyone except possibly to a contender we are competing with that doesn’t make sense as a trading partner.
 

chilidawg

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Hauser is one thing….a shooter. He’s going to spend his entire career going back to being a pumpkin at some point only to return to not be one. That’s the trajectory of a one-dimensional shooter. The problem for a guy like him comes in the playoffs as defensive intensity and close outs increase which often disrupts a shooter from their comfort zone…..as we’ve seen with Pritchard in the postseason.

That’s the value of a veteran like Danny Green who has a track record of his 3-pt% holding up under these conditions (Ross doesn’t have good playoff shooting success). Players who are capable of slowing the game down tend to shoot better in the playoffs opposed to those to need to play faster to matchup with the intensity.
Great point.
 

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I worry that Hauser will turn back into a pumpkin at any time and that if PP is moved Hauser will wilt in the playoffs if he's needed. PP is better than Hauser like 60% of the time, but for the other 40% Hauser is like waaaaay better than PP will ever be. You just hope to keep the lightning in a bottle going I guess.

Not the worst problem in the world to have in any case...
It's pretty clear that both are real shooters. I don't think that either is at a risk of turning back into a pumpkin more than the other.

Pritchard has improved his base on defense. He holds his own on defense most of the time now. Hauser is better on defense than we all expected and holds his own out there most of the time also. There isn't a hell of a lot of difference between them defensively. They're both like -1 DARKO. Neither is good, but neither is Trae Young.

On offense, Pritchard's ballhandling is a great thing to have, but we need to stop thinking of him as a point guard. He wasn't a big assist guy in college, and his assist% in the pros is really not that of a point guard. He passed it better last year, more like a combo guard, but year one and this year...he's below Jaylen Brown. Which isn't bad, but he's not initiating offense out there for the team. Our eyes should be telling us too. He lacks the footspeed to get past his man except in rare occurrences and frankly, it has never really been his job to find guys. That's not to say that he can't do it. He passed ok last year. Just that he's really just a super short combo guard. He'd probably grow into it somewhere else if his job was to play rotational point guard. That's not what we need.

Shooting wise, I like that Hauser needs less space to get his shot off being so much taller. But Pritchard does ok there too for a guy his size.

If I'm Brad, I wouldn't and won't move Pritchard unless there's an upgrade to be had at a position of need on the roster. There's nothing wrong with milking a guy's rookie deal for value and letting him go to RFA and find a deal. If someone becomes available in the offseason or there's a way to pick up future value for him, fantastic. Maybe the Spurs will take him into space to remove the 2028 pick swap or other draft capital.
 

benhogan

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Don’t mistake my position here. There is a difference in someone like Hauser coming up from Maine THEN showing that his skillset can translate to where he can potentially fill a role…..with bringing someone up and signing him to a multi-year deal to FIND OUT if they can potentially fill a role. When you look at skillsets it is easier for a spot-up shooter to find a niche than an undersized PG who is turnover prone and inconsistent on both ends of the floor.

We didn’t use a 15th man yesterday because that player isn’t on the roster (yet). If we sign say a Barton and this same injury scenario plays out in the future he would certainly be called upon. There is a reason why JD isn’t in that role….it is bc the Celtics don’t feel like he is good enough or matches up well enough to contribute. I agree with them at this stage of his career.
Brad/Zarren aren't signing anyone to a multi-year deal (even if it's a minimum type) from Maine until they KNOW. It certainly wouldn't happen now & it could come with team options. That would be summer business, when they have a better handle on the roster.
I'm also old enough to recall plenty of doubt about Hauser being able to guard NBA players and getting relentlessly hunted off the court. There were folks convinced his "skillset" & "inexperience" wouldn't work at the NBA level this season.

Agree, Barton/Green are better than anything in Maine. I'm just skeptical those guys want to sign in Boston when they can get a bigger role/minutes in LA, PHX, Dallas, etc
 

lovegtm

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It does happen all the time but with a much less sense of urgency with the nondescript player. We saw a couple examples at this deadline.

Thomas Bryant is expiring at end of the year so when Davis returned to the Lakers he lost most of his minutes and requested a trade prior to the Lakers moving him.

Korkmaz in Philly is one guy going through the same thing as Pritchard. The teams wants to keep him around for depth this year as he’s under contract but over the summer when roster movement is more active I’m sure they will move a guy who doesn’t want to be there if that remains the case.

Here is a great piece by Scotto that gives a behind the scenes look at an agents involvement and how the cat and mouse game sometimes develops. Good read.

https://hoopshype.com/2021/01/04/how-nba-players-ask-for-trades/
Great article, thanks.

It makes it seem like Pritchard probably won't get out unless he's ok sacrificing a large chunk of his salary to a power broker agent.
 

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It's pretty clear that both are real shooters. I don't think that either is at a risk of turning back into a pumpkin more than the other.

Pritchard has improved his base on defense. He holds his own on defense most of the time now. Hauser is better on defense than we all expected and holds his own out there most of the time also. There isn't a hell of a lot of difference between them defensively. They're both like -1 DARKO. Neither is good, but neither is Trae Young.
Merits mentioning that the DARKO numbers (as all statistics) are context-dependent. Setting aside switches, Pritchard is generally matching up against smaller guys, which makes sense as one of the smallest guys in the current NBA. Hauser is basically average by height/wingspan and there are generally a lot more medium/big wings in the NBA than there are guards that can kill you with quickness these days.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Brad/Zarren aren't signing anyone to a multi-year deal (even if it's a minimum type) from Maine until they KNOW. It certainly wouldn't happen now & it could come with team options. That would be summer business, when they have a better handle on the roster.
I'm also old enough to recall plenty of doubt about Hauser being able to guard NBA players and getting relentlessly hunted off the court. There were folks convinced his "skillset" & "inexperience" wouldn't work at the NBA level this season.

Agree, Barton/Green are better than anything in Maine. I'm just skeptical those guys want to sign in Boston when they can get a bigger role/minutes in LA, PHX, Dallas, etc
I still am not comfortable with Hauser or Pritchard on the floor defensively in crucial parts (2H) of a playoff game regardless of what DARKO project their regular season defense to look like. Spring basketball with long series gameplanning is a different animal.
 

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I still am not comfortable with Hauser or Pritchard on the floor defensively in crucial parts (2H) of a playoff game regardless of what DARKO project their regular season defense to look like. Spring basketball with long series gameplanning is a different animal.
No argument there. I think that the question is whether either can be useful in first halves or as a change of pace guy for 10 minutes without killing you.
 

benhogan

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I still am not comfortable with Hauser or Pritchard on the floor defensively in crucial parts (2H) of a playoff game regardless of what DARKO project their regular season defense to look like. Spring basketball with long series gameplanning is a different animal.
Its not really something to be worried about. Barring injury from our TOP8, you won't see them in a tight playoff game.

Hauser would need to stay on a prolonged heater from 3 to earn any 2H playoff minutes

I'm pretty convinced that Muscala will be the 9th man in the rotation with an emphasis on rotating TL/Al/GW/MM at the 4/5 (with some Tatum at the 4 when they go "small)". The metrics with them playing BIG have been very favorable for years now. Especially in the halfcourt. Brad has gone out of his way to note it.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Its not really something to be worried about. Barring injury from our TOP8, you won't see them in a tight playoff game.
This is precisely what we should all be worried about as it’s not guaranteed that we will be at full strength come playoff time. 50/50?
 

benhogan

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This is precisely what we should all be worried about as it’s not guaranteed that we will be at full strength come playoff time. 50/50?
Ha. I think they are being cautious with Smart, Brogdon, Al, & Jaylen. BUT I have no way to handicap it. TL/Al are the biggest risks as far as injuries. The Milwaukee game will be interesting, I think we have the size to disrupt/annoy Giannis' rim runs.

I expect the Celtics to be ruthless about protecting their TOP8 for the playoffs with liberal rest over the last 15 games. Our bench seems capable of holding serve to end the season
 

HomeRunBaker

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Ha. I think they are being cautious with Smart, Brogdon, Al, & Jaylen. BUT I have no way to handicap it. TL/Al are the biggest risks as far as injuries. The Milwaukee game will be interesting, I think we have the size to disrupt/annoy Giannis' rim runs.

I expect the Celtics to be ruthless about protecting their TOP8 for the playoffs with liberal rest over the last 15 games. Our bench seems capable of holding serve to end the season
I mean Smart and Jaylen are clearly out due to injuries. TL doesn’t look right and we can only hope that Brogdon’s “Achilles soreness” was an excuse to rest him on Sunday. Out of that group the only one I’m sure is pure rest is Horford. We are a banged up crew right now.
 

lexrageorge

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This is precisely what we should all be worried about as it’s not guaranteed that we will be at full strength come playoff time. 50/50?
Isn’t this true of any playoff team? What does the 9th man look like on other teams? Answer is someone who would not normally be trusted with minutes in the playoffs.

TL is the only starter that has what could be termed a chronic injury. Smart, Jaylen, Brogdon are expected to be healthy. If they or any of our other starters gets injured, it’s really just the luck of the draw.
 

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Ha. I think they are being cautious with Smart, Brogdon, Al, & Jaylen. BUT I have no way to handicap it. TL/Al are the biggest risks as far as injuries. The Milwaukee game will be interesting, I think we have the size to disrupt/annoy Giannis' rim runs.

I expect the Celtics to be ruthless about protecting their TOP8 for the playoffs with liberal rest over the last 15 games. Our bench seems capable of holding serve to end the season
Depends how much they value the top seed.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Isn’t this true of any playoff team? What does the 9th man look like on other teams? Answer is someone who would not normally be trusted with minutes in the playoffs.

TL is the only starter that has what could be termed a chronic injury. Smart, Jaylen, Brogdon are expected to be healthy. If they or any of our other starters gets injured, it’s really just the luck of the draw.
Yes this is what I was saying when I’m concerned about not having another depth option over Hauser or Pritchard in the playoffs should the situation call for it.
 

benhogan

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Yes this is what I was saying when I’m concerned about not having another depth option over Hauser or Pritchard in the playoffs should the situation call for it.
It would take for two of these 6 players to be out:
Tatum, Brown, Smart, White, Grant, and Brogdon for PP or Hauser to see H2 playoff minutes in a close game.

The good thing is that PP has played in every playoff game (29) over the last 2 seasons, averaging 13mpg.

Now if Alec Burks was bought out (not happening) great sign me up. Justin Holiday? Meh, I imagine Brad/CJM would choose the hotter of Hauser/PP
 

lexrageorge

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It would take for two of these 6 players to be out:
Tatum, Brown, Smart, White, Grant, and Brogdon for PP or Hauser to see H2 playoff minutes in a close game.

The good thing is that PP has played in every playoff game (29) over the last 2 seasons, averaging 13mpg.

Now if Alec Burks was bought out (not happening) great sign me up. Justin Holiday? Meh, I imagine Brad/CJM would choose the hotter of Hauser/PP
Which goes back to my earlier question: how many playoff teams have in their 9th and 10th roster spots a playoff-capable player who is markedly better than Pritchard or Hauser?
 

benhogan

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Which goes back to my earlier question: how many playoff teams have in their 9th and 10th roster spots a playoff-capable player who is markedly better than Pritchard or Hauser?
none.

Muscala is the 9th guy

I see Hauser, PP, Kornet, and Blake as #10, 11, 12 & 13 in the rotation

HRB just wants catastrophic insurance for #15. That would be the best wing defender in the buyout market IMO
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

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Isn’t this true of any playoff team? What does the 9th man look like on other teams? Answer is someone who would not normally be trusted with minutes in the playoffs.
East Contenders:

Milwaukee: Jordan Nwora

Philly: Montrezl Harrell

Cleveland: Lamar Stevens

West Contenders:

Denver: Vlatko Cancar

Memphis: Brandon Clarke

Sacto: Terence Davis

I was impressed with Clarke. I think he could play playoff rotation minutes. I could not pick Cancar out of a lineup.
 
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Koufax

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none.

Muscala is the 9th guy

I see Hauser, PP, Kornet, and Blake as #10, 11, 12 & 13 in the rotation

HRB just wants catastrophic insurance for #15. That would be the best wing defender in the buyout market IMO
I see Kornet as above PP, but agree otherwise. Kornet actually brings something to the table that nobody else does - serious height and some shooting ability. PP has no unique features or talents, not since Hauser has shown up as a shooter.

What about Carmelo Anthony as #15?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Which goes back to my earlier question: how many playoff teams have in their 9th and 10th roster spots a playoff-capable player who is markedly better than Pritchard or Hauser?
Probably the number is zero however our 9/10, or anyones 9/10, needs to be able to be competent vs opposing starters as they aren’t necessarily going to be playing bench vs bench if they are pressed into duty. So while they should be fine in this role having additional depth or upgrading is obv always preferred.
 

HomeRunBaker

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benhogan

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NomarsFool

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If PP were to continue with the Celtics, what sort of contract offer do you think he would get from them?

If PP were to go somewhere else, what sort of contract do you think would realistically be his ceiling?

These aren't meant to be rhetorical, I'm really curious because I'm having a hard time seeing PP's ceiling being that high that any team is going to look at him and give him some huge number.

To put it another way, putting aside players that don't even get a second contract - what's an example of the lowest they can get? Does someone have an example of a similar player to Pritchard who got a big payday?
 

Euclis20

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none.

Muscala is the 9th guy

I see Hauser, PP, Kornet, and Blake as #10, 11, 12 & 13 in the rotation

HRB just wants catastrophic insurance for #15. That would be the best wing defender in the buyout market IMO
I see the 9-12 guys as largely dependant on circumstances, particularly which of our top 8 is out. If it's one of the combo guards (smart, white, Brogdon), it's gonna be Pritchard who gets the first chance. If it's a big wing (tatum, brown, grant), Hauser gets his shot. If it's our floor spacing big (Horford), it will be muscala. If it's our rim running big (rob), kornet gets the ball.

The beauty of this rotation (other than the total depth), is the flexibility of a lot of these guys to play up or down from their natural position. I think the first consideration is who is being replaced, but if one of those four isn't working they've got options.
 

lexrageorge

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If PP were to continue with the Celtics, what sort of contract offer do you think he would get from them?

If PP were to go somewhere else, what sort of contract do you think would realistically be his ceiling?

These aren't meant to be rhetorical, I'm really curious because I'm having a hard time seeing PP's ceiling being that high that any team is going to look at him and give him some huge number.

To put it another way, putting aside players that don't even get a second contract - what's an example of the lowest they can get? Does someone have an example of a similar player to Pritchard who got a big payday?
It's not so much about what we think is realistic. Instead, it's what Pritchard and, more importantly, his agent think he can get if he's able to obtain solid playing time and the opportunity to put up those all important pointz.

Pritchard is guaranteed $4M for 2023-24 already. Agent is probably telling him that in the right circumstances that starting in 2024-25 he could get somewhere between QO money ($6M) and MLE dough (>$10M). Terry Rozier is making more than $21M, and guys like Pritchard are more often than not wired to believe they can get the same if they keeping putting the work in and can find the right opportunity. The differences between $6M, $10M and $21M are life changing amounts.
 

benhogan

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I see the 9-12 guys as largely dependant on circumstances, particularly which of our top 8 is out. If it's one of the combo guards (smart, white, Brogdon), it's gonna be Pritchard who gets the first chance. If it's a big wing (tatum, brown, grant), Hauser gets his shot. If it's our floor spacing big (Horford), it will be muscala. If it's our rim running big (rob), kornet gets the ball.

The beauty of this rotation (other than the total depth), is the flexibility of a lot of these guys to play up or down from their natural position. I think the first consideration is who is being replaced, but if one of those four isn't working they've got options.
Muscala will have a larger role. I expect to see plenty of 2BIGz

So after that first 9, it will be situational like you described
 

NomarsFool

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It's not so much about what we think is realistic. Instead, it's what Pritchard and, more importantly, his agent think he can get if he's able to obtain solid playing time and the opportunity to put up those all important pointz.

Pritchard is guaranteed $4M for 2023-24 already. Agent is probably telling him that in the right circumstances that starting in 2024-25 he could get somewhere between QO money ($6M) and MLE dough (>$10M). Terry Rozier is making more than $21M, and guys like Pritchard are more often than not wired to believe they can get the same if they keeping putting the work in and can find the right opportunity. The differences between $6M, $10M and $21M are life changing amounts.
I hope he doesn't think he's getting Rozier money, as that seems unrealistic to me.
 

Eddie Jurak

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TJ McConnell. 6'1" PG, lesser shooter than Pritchard (career 34% on very low volume for a guard). Before 2019-20, he signed as a free agent for 2 years, $7 million. Before last season he signed for 4 years, $33.6 million.

Pritchard, who has attempted way more career threes as a third year player than McConnell as an 8th year player, will market himself as a McConnell-who-can-shoot-40%-from-three-on-high-volume.
 

benhogan

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TJ McConnell. 6'1" PG, lesser shooter than Pritchard (career 34% on very low volume for a guard). Before 2019-20, he signed as a free agent for 2 years, $7 million. Before last season he signed for 4 years, $33.6 million.

Pritchard, who has attempted way more career threes as a third year player than McConnell as an 8th year player, will market himself as a McConnell-who-can-shoot-40%-from-three-on-high-volume.
TJ is a pass-first PG that excels at picking up full-court on-ball pressure. A very reluctant 3pt shooter whereas Payton launches immediately with any opening.

IMHO the player that PP most resembles is Bryn Forbes (6'2"), a small off-guard that shoots 3s at 41%. Bryn had a few decent seasons at SAS, and started for a playoff team but never got paid. His size has killed any shooting value he holds and he's bounced around the league for a few seasons now. Bryn topped out at $4M/yr

PP will struggle to get paid no matter where he ends up. Unless you're a lightning-quick PG, you need length/size in the switch everything NBA.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/forbebr01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pritcpa01.html