Kyrie is dirty rotten no good and we have schadenfreude…?
- Thread starter jose melendez
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“Brooklyn’s draft-pick situation is an unusual one. Theoretically, the Nets could secure the No. 1 pick in 2023, but only if Philadelphia misses the playoffs and wins the draft lottery, since Brooklyn controls the Sixers‘ pick.
The Rockets have the ability to swap their own first-rounder with the Nets’ pick, so if Brooklyn finishes in the lottery and the Sixers don’t, the highest pick the Nets could get would be No. 2 overall (if they and the Rockets earned the top two spots via the lottery).”
The Rockets have the ability to swap their own first-rounder with the Nets’ pick, so if Brooklyn finishes in the lottery and the Sixers don’t, the highest pick the Nets could get would be No. 2 overall (if they and the Rockets earned the top two spots via the lottery).”
Don't assume the business and basketball decisions are all that far apart. From a basketball perspective, Kyrie is in the final year of his deal and there is zero chance he is returning to Brooklyn next season. The NBA is not kind to no-defense 6'2" guards when they break 30, especially guards that have an injury history like Kyrie's. Despite being a purported superstar, a team with him and KD look even worse than their 1-5 record.
Not predicting a cutdown just yet, but a trade seems almost certain. And this could yet get even uglier (it's already hit the real ugly stage), and so a cut is not out of the question even as a strict business decision.
I think Tsai's longer-term interests and his multi-billion dollar investment in NYC/Brooklyn likely dictates him making a very loud and public announcement that he and the Nets organization do not and will not promote racism or racist theories, which target any ethnic group or religion, in any form or forum, including a basketball court.
Tsai's Nets, playing in the heart of Spike Lee's Brooklyn, but also in the heart of one of the world's largest Jewish communities, should do the right thing and distance themselves from the malignant tumor that is Kyrie Irving.
Tsai's Nets, playing in the heart of Spike Lee's Brooklyn, but also in the heart of one of the world's largest Jewish communities, should do the right thing and distance themselves from the malignant tumor that is Kyrie Irving.
Well, of course. And I agree. But there's a half dozen people that have replied to me that seem to think Tsai is Mr Deeds and going to waive Kyrie out of a moral obligation.
What happened this offseason is barely relevant. The Nets couldn't find a trade partner because trading for him appeared contingent on offering him a max contract.
How many times has a team outright cut a top 20 player because he says something shitty or has a history of being divisive? It's probably happened, but off the top of my head, I can't think of any. In any league. Conversely, how many times has a professional sports team taken on a player with (too much) baggage on a low-risk contract?
If Tsai wants out on Kyrie - and I'm sure he does - he's not going to cut him for free. And he's not going to tell him, "stay home". That hand was already played last season and Kyrie called his bluff. Irving stayed home and Tsai let him back after a handful of weeks. The only thing that accomplishes this time is depreciating his own asset.
I'd love to be wrong, but I'm actually really surprised to be in the minority here. I get people saying, "Fuck Kyrie, I hope he gets cut." But that feels like real wish casting.
Respect for having that ready to on a Sunday morning.
Count me among those that expect Kyrie to end up playing out the string because nobody wants to touch him. If they trade him, I’d assume he goes to the Lakers, and KD ends up back in Golden State just because. I think KFP is right about this one.
If the Nets decide they want to move on from Kyrie Irving, they definitely should not cut him. He should not be rewarded by being allowed to go to a contending team for the minimum. The last thing I want to see is this guy have a platform during a deep playoff run this season. Plus I don’t want to hear all the redemption stories on how Kyrie is a winning player and just didn’t have a good situation in Brooklyn, even though he created the situation in Brooklyn. Exile him if no trade is available.
Let him go into free agency next year, and let him experience the market where contending teams don’t have cap room for him. He can finish out his prime on an also ran, or humbly take less money to play on a contender. At this point I don’t even know if he cares about winning it all
Let him go into free agency next year, and let him experience the market where contending teams don’t have cap room for him. He can finish out his prime on an also ran, or humbly take less money to play on a contender. At this point I don’t even know if he cares about winning it all
Does anyone ever stop and question why the Lakers NEED to trade their picks in five and seven years to just to win right now? The Lakers have a lot of holes and Kyrie doesn't solve all of them; it's weird to me how so many people (not you specifically) think that it would be normal for a team to basically not have any first round picks for the next decade just so they can try to win with a flawed roster this year.
I don't disagree, but I'm fine with the "in for a penny, in for a pound" mentality. Once LBJ leaves, this team probably sucks for the next decade. Trading away your final few firsts to try and cash in while you have a (small) chance doesn't seem obscene.
But, FWIW, I agree with you. This teams issue isn't the top of the roster. It's probably an interesting discussion to have how teams with 2/3 top players - Lakers, Brooklyn - can no longer carry teams to wins like they used to be able to. I think it speaks volumes to how much more talented the league has become from top to bottom. The Lakers are getting NOTHING from a good chunk of its roster.
Anyway, I agree with you. If they swing a trade for Kyrie, I'd assume they'd want to add rotation pieces from the Nets as well. Otherwise Kyrie isn't enough to move the needle to make them a championship team.
I said this yesterday, but I think the league becoming way more switch-oriented makes it so that you are only as strong as your weakest player. If you have a weak defender on the court, the other team is going to get switches to get them onto their best offensive player and exploit it. On offense, if you have a weak shooter, teams will sag off them and double your best players. It's notable that the true best teams in the NBA, the Warriors, Bucks, Celtics, Grizzlies, don't really play any subpar players that much--they play a tight rotation of guys that could hang in a tough playoff series. Meanwhile the Nets and Lakers are playing Matt Ryan and Yuta Wantanabe significant minutes.
This is simply not what happened.
No one wanted Kyrie on a 1 year expiring 36M contract, it had nothing to do with any future contract demands. The Lakers wanted him on the midlevel exception or as a way to dump Westbrook. There was no market for Kyrie at all.
He's crazy, a clubhouse cancer, and doesn't show up to play for a variety of strange reasons. Whatever he is ranked as a NBA player currently is barely relevant to his value.
He may not get cut straight out, but a Lakers trade for pennies on the dollar or a John Wall-style "we'll pay you but just stay home" plan are on the table.
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There's definitely a point where cutting him IS a good business decision.
I'm not sure thats right, but your confidence has me doubting myself a little.
I thought the timeline of events went:
- Swept in playoffs, KD/Kyrie recommit to future of team during press conference.
- Irving requests max contract, Nets rebuff
- KD may/may not request a trade. Private leaks start to emerge. One theory was that it was in support of Irving getting the max extension they both were supposedly promised prior to joining the Nets.
- Irving gives Nets list of teams he'd be willing to get traded to
- No trade develops, so he opts into his final season.
- KD no longer wants out
BUT, if a team knew they could get Irving as a rental, and that he'd play the season out for his next contract? That's a completely different situation.
I don't think your timeline is off, just the value of Irving around the league (or to the Nets currently).
I think any potential trade partners knew Kyrie would be on a 1 year "make good" deal and he was basically a rental already. The price was still very low, regardless of any future max contract demands down the road.
One year of "The Kyrie Show" for 36M isn't a particularly enticing proposition. He's still good when he plays, but he doesn't defend and he's not THAT good.
Have these hypothetical divisive top-20 players said anything as remotely fucked up as Kyrie?
Lakers get Kyrie, Watanabe
Nets get Westbrook, JB, TL, picks
Celtics get Durant
Works in trade machine.
Additionally, Kyrie is absolutely not a top 20 player at this point. Top 20 players don't have any trouble getting max contracts. When he plays, he's a top 20 scorer. His rebounding and playmaking are mediocre for his position and his defense is below average at best. And that's when he plays, which is not often. He's averaged 46 games per year since leaving Cleveland, and has missed the end of the year 3 times over that stretch. And he's 6'2 and will be 31 before the playoffs. This is before you get to how his off the court BS depresses his value.
This post is perfect for a Kyrie thread. It makes sense, just totally unrelated to the discussion, haha.
Seems to me the Kyrie decision for the Nets isn’t about Kyrie much at all, but rather how it affects their decision on KD. He’s all that’s left of value they have.
Maybe they’ll give things another 5-10 games to see if they look like a contender, but with Simmons working his way back (to put things very gently), this seems unlikely.
Do they think they can get maximum KD value on a trade in season? If they think yes, I’d expect a tear down soon. If they think no… I’m not sure the best short term plan.
Maybe they’ll give things another 5-10 games to see if they look like a contender, but with Simmons working his way back (to put things very gently), this seems unlikely.
Do they think they can get maximum KD value on a trade in season? If they think yes, I’d expect a tear down soon. If they think no… I’m not sure the best short term plan.
Nets don't control their own pick until 2028, they can't tank. That also makes it way less valuable to trade KD.
Yeah, unfortunately for them, no reason to tank.
If things don't improve soon, telling Kyrie to stay home, phantom injury for KD, play Simmons a lot to see if he has anything left... might be the move. Though not a great option of course.
They can then either trade KD in season or wait til the offseason.
I think they can wait out KD. They have him for years. Even if they cut Kyrie and KD instantly says he'll never put on the uniform again the Nets can still deal him from a position of strength. They can see what's on offer at the deadline or wait until the off-season.
I'll say this. If I'm a Nets fan I'm probably not tuning into another game much less ponying up to go to Barclay's while this clown is representing the Nets. But then again I was nearly there when he was with the Celtics. Kyrie is the fucking worst.
Yeah, it's becoming clear the illusion they could keep KD/contend is fading away.
Their leverage is what it is at this point... not great. But he will still get them a bunch of assets eventually.
Moral obligation? Kyrie is on a one year contract and isn't returning. He appears to have zero trade value. The Nets are 1-5 and it seems likely that his divisive presence is a significant part of the problem (remember there are reports that Kyrie "hates" Nash and Marks). And I believe you are misremembering the part that he required a max contract extension with any trade. As I understand it, he wanted that early on -before he picked up the one-year option. Then he got more realistic and requested a trade to a few select teams, but without any added contract expectations. And "doing the right thing" here is also about his market. New York, and Brooklyn in particular, has a large Jewish population.
As has been said before, he is not a top 20 player. Top 20 players have trade value - and Kyrie, apparently, doesn't. While a lot of the reason for that is his personality issues and his off-the-court behavior, teams clearly factor that into their decision making. Maybe, if the Nets are lucky, they might be able to trade him to the Lakers, straight up for Westbrook, but even that might be difficult now. Why would any team want to take him on during the middle of this fiasco?
Again, this team is 1-5. Kyrie is untradeable. Cutting Kyrie is probably addition by subtraction. What really seems unrealistic is thinking that this situation gets any better by keeping Kyrie.
He's clearly not untradable. You think if they called the Lakers and said we'll give you Kyrie for RWB and something else that might have value they'd say no?
Nobody is untradable, but I don't think it's much of a stretch to call him a negative asset at this point. To move him, Brooklyn either needs to add in real assets or trade him for an even bigger liability (Westbrook).
It’s not that they couldn’t trade KD - it’s that they couldn’t trade him for enough value to make it worth their while.
Kyrie they would have traded for salary fodder and a first round pick, but despite that they couldn’t find any takers. Part of the problem was that he was only willing to be sent to a few select teams, but it was more than that. The Lakers, his preferred destination, balked at throwing in more than one draft pick for him in a potential RWB for Kyrie swap.
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RWB and picks was already rejected by the Lakers in the offseason. Kyrie clearly has less value now. I suppose they might be able to trade him straight up for Westbrook, but I’m not sure that it wouldn’t be better for them just to cut him.
Why would anybody trade for a bigot in the midst of this story? How does an NBA owner overcome the hypocrisy of making an affirmative decision to add him to their team while decrying what he said?
If anything was rejected it was RWB and 2 unprotected 1sts, pretty sure if Kyrie for RWB and 1 1st was actually on the table this summer Kyrie would be a Laker right now.
Because they are delusional here in LaLa Land, along with the NBA National media.
Just one more All-Star-level talent along with LeBron/AD can beat "anyone" in the playoffs is a common mantra. Even if Matt Ryan is your 6th man
I put out that trade suggestion before Kyrie's post-game meltdown. His value is plummeting at Kanye speed now.
I'm 100% on keeping JB (as long as he kicks the Twitter habit). I've been guilty of making up silly Brown trades over the years (I'm kicking that habit going forward
)This Celtic team (age/experience) is primed to make a multi-year run. No core changes (Top7) are necessary
Just a bench BIG/frontcourt rotational player needs to be added. They will be great as long as the JAYs stay healthy
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It’s definitely not the best decision for them, but they’ve made several poor decisions. GM Lebron does some curious things. I guess it’s easy when you don’t care about the future of the franchise.
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Kyrie in classic Kyrie mode in his post-game interview:
Kyrie first proclaims: “I’m in a unique position to have a level of influence on my community.”
Less than a minute later, Irving states: “I am no different than any other human being… You guys come in here and make up this powerful influence I have.”
Good reminder that Kyrie is not just a narcissist but also a moron. Nobody with any intelligence questions whether the world is round, just like no one with any brains completely contradicts themselves with two statements this divergent in less than a minute..
Kyrie first proclaims: “I’m in a unique position to have a level of influence on my community.”
Less than a minute later, Irving states: “I am no different than any other human being… You guys come in here and make up this powerful influence I have.”
Good reminder that Kyrie is not just a narcissist but also a moron. Nobody with any intelligence questions whether the world is round, just like no one with any brains completely contradicts themselves with two statements this divergent in less than a minute..
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The other question is when Durant is going to say "I'm out on this". I realize they are buddies, but I think he made clear this summer that is not absolute. And the antisemitic baloney is something I truly don't believe KD is down with. So if KD is done with Kyrie, that makes it a lot easier for Tsai to do what he might choose to do. I don't know if he is there, but it's foreseeable that could happen
This is gold.
I mean "player X is tradeable if you're willing to take back the corpse of Russell Westbrook" is more or less untradeable. That shows how far Kyrie has fallen if Russ is the get.
I am sad I can't find a gif of Mel Brooks in History of the World saying "Thhhhaaaank yooou," during his bit at the palace because this post deserves it. I feel like I am taking crazy pills.
No one is trading for Kyrie.
Yes. I’m pretty sure the Laker offer would be RWB for the Demon Kyzuzu and a minimum contract to make the trade legal. No one is giving Brooklyn assets for a guy that might, legitimately, be too crazy for the NBA.
New York City is the home of the most Jews in the world, approximately twice as many as #2 and #3, Jerusalem and LA. Tel-Aviv is 4th.
The Nets don’t have much leverage with one other team in a KD trade, but if they can get more than one team drooling over KD, the resulting auction will have the same effect.
No, the get would be whatever came with Russ, he's just the matching salary.
The Lakers are 0-5, Lebron is 37, Russ looks terrible, Davis is already hurt, and they don't have their own pick. But yeah I'm sure they'd rather just tank the season rather than give up an asset to hope they can make it work with Kyrie.
Yeah, their "leverage" is just that KD is really good and a lot of teams would be interested.
As we saw this summer though, the Venn diagram of interested contending teams with the right package of young players/picks is actually not too large.