Sox acquire Eric Hosmer

cornwalls@6

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Is he? He has an OPS+ of 112 and a wRC+ of 107 this year. Isn't that by definition above average? I know you waved away those numbers because of his hot start this year, but I bet if you take just about any slightly above average hitter and took away his best weeks he'd look shitty.

___

As a more general comment: this board is really twisted sometimes. People have been clamoring for an upgrade to Dalbec/Franchy for months and months, lamenting how easy it would be because their production is bad and now that we've actually gotten that upgrade for next to nothing in cost, you all are raging that the acquisition is worthless. A .5 to 2 WAR player for next to nothing that is controlled for a few years and could easily be dropped if and when Casas is ready is a very nice pickup.
What's even more twisted is how questioning a deal turns into "raging that the acquisition is worthless", or that most of the posters here, presumably the ones questioning these trades, are "incredibly fucking dumb". That's weird, on a discussion board.
 

Cesar Crespo

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What is a "free" Hosmer worth?

I jokingly said Gilberto Jimenez in the Soto thread. Once he rejected the trade, it was pretty obvious he'd be here.
 

joe dokes

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He's really not.

MLB 1B in 2022: .252/.327/.426, 112 wRC+
Eric Hosmer 2022: .272/.336/.391, 107 wRC+
He *is* better than what they've been doing at 1B so far, yes? Considering they're surrendering nothing of value (so it appears), what's the problem?
 

SoxinSeattle

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There isn't. It's just the worst of Dan Duquette, throwing as many random washed up and/or injury prone players you can find against the wall and hoping you can piece together a season. Last year it worked, this year it isn't but he refuses to give up the ghost of the 2022 season.
The plan (emulate LAD) is the best we could hope for and the absolute correct decision but it's not shiny enough and takes too long for the relentless radio call in folks that have found there way to this board.
 

LynnRice75

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A few weeks ago, I saw this lowlight reel of Hosmer's play this year and it made me laugh. Lots of ground balls (a league leading 58.4% gb rate) and bad defense.

The Eric Hosmer experience 1st half edition
View: https://twitter.com/TooMuchMortons_/status/1548026022875975684
Well. That’s… unfortunate.
HosmError.
I’m going with the theory that a change of scenery will improve his glove and bat.
He almost won a triple crown once.
I’m going to tell myself that THAT’s the Hosmer we’re getting. .
 

8slim

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I don't see this as a major component of any "plan". This seems to be Bloom jumping on an opportunity.

Hosner squashed going to DC and the Padres had to move him. They also are willing to eat a substantial portion of his contract. So it's kind of a no-lose for Bloom. He's an immediate upgrade to our black hole at 1B, and if he sucks we can cut him without being on the hook for much money.

Honestly, it'll surprise me if Hosner is on the roster this time next year, but it seems like there's very little downside here.
 

JCizzle

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He's really not.

MLB 1B in 2022: .252/.327/.426, 112 wRC+
Eric Hosmer 2022: .272/.336/.391, 107 wRC+
I like the trade because it's a clear upgrade in my opinion, but I think the disconnect is comparing his bat league-wide opposed to just first baseman (as you did). While he's a welcome upgrade in our lineup, the Red Sox still lack an above-average first base bat. In terms of wRC+, he's 20 out of 26 qualifying 1B; 25 out of 26 in ISO. Hopefully next year Casas breaks that trend because I doubt he'll get an extended September look at this point.
 

snowmanny

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I don't see this as a major component of any "plan". This seems to be Bloom jumping on an opportunity.

Hosner squashed going to DC and the Padres had to move him. They also are willing to eat a substantial portion of his contract. So it's kind of a no-lose for Bloom. He's an immediate upgrade to our black hole at 1B, and if he sucks we can cut him without being on the hook for much money.

Honestly, it'll surprise me if Hosner is on the roster this time next year, but it seems like there's very little downside here.
This is where I am at. I assume that Bloom saw an opportunity to gain value in some manner when the Padres were pretty much forced to dump Hosmer at a loss. Let’s see
 

nvalvo

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I don't see this as a major component of any "plan". This seems to be Bloom jumping on an opportunity.

Hosner squashed going to DC and the Padres had to move him. They also are willing to eat a substantial portion of his contract. So it's kind of a no-lose for Bloom. He's an immediate upgrade to our black hole at 1B, and if he sucks we can cut him without being on the hook for much money.

Honestly, it'll surprise me if Hosner is on the roster this time next year, but it seems like there's very little downside here.
This seems right.
 

joe dokes

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You could argue that last place teams who are trading starting players for middling prospects don't really have positional needs anymore.
And that would not be unreasonable. But at 3 games out of the playoffs, it's also not unreasonable to try and upgrade a position at virtually no cost. The downgrade at another position presumably comes with some other benefit (the prospect return).
 

chawson

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He *is* better than what they've been doing at 1B so far, yes? Considering they're surrendering nothing of value (so it appears), what's the problem?
Eric Hosmer is probably the biggest punchline in the league, largely because of his contract. He's an immensely frustrating player whose reputation both at the plate and on the field has almost always far exceeded his production. I genuinely would rather give the next three years to Dalbec, who at least has upside.

I'm partially reserving judgment because there's still a lot of time left and we don't know the prospect attached to the trade. If it's Campusano, then I like the deal a lot more. But as for Hosmer, it's basically no better than getting James Loney -- except now you're stuck with him for three additional years.
 

TheYellowDart5

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So I think if there's a disconnect here right now, it's "Hosmer is a free pickup with little downside" versus "Hosmer is an uninspiring pickup with little upside." Both of those can be (and are) true, and where you come down on it, I think, depends on what your expectations for this team are. Is this a genuine contender? Then Hosmer is a disappointing addition to a roster that was fatally misconstructed in the offseason. Is this team building toward something better in the future while aiming for at least base competency? Then Hosmer is a fine if not helpful addition to a roster that ... well, was fatally misconstructed in the offseason. Speaking purely for myself, I want the Red Sox to be in on marquee players and impact additions, and it's disappointing that instead this roster looks like a mid-tier NL Central squad hoping and praying to reach 82 wins.
 
ETA: Unrelated to Hosmer but I'm baffled at how pointing out that a player is, well, not good will get you lambasted on this site. Like, are people actually happy with this move? Has the bar for this team fallen so low that acquiring a bad-hitting first baseman on the wrong side of 30 counts as a win?
Personally I don't have a problem with pointing out that Hosmer himself is "not good." Note that's different from claiming that he's bad. There's a big difference between the inaccurate claim that he's below average and the accurate claim that he's average.

As to the last bit, I see it totally differently. The way I see it is "has the bar for this team gotten so high that we're upset when the team acquires a cheap, merely average player for nothing?"

It feels like we're late in the ballgame with 2 outs and nobody on and the crowd is booing the batter for getting a base hit because we felt that we deserved a home run.
 

Rovin Romine

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Again: he was above-average in the shortened 2020 season, roughly average last year, and, since the start of May, has been awful (a .637 OPS in nearly 300 PA). Calling him "an above-average hitter this year" isn't accurate; he was an above-average hitter for a month and decidedly below average since. The man has a 103 OPS+ as a Padre; that's as average as it gets, and he's shown no signs of being any better than that (and plenty of being worse) save two months in 2020 and one month this year. His recent success is vastly outweighed by long stretches of replacement-level play.

ETA: Unrelated to Hosmer but I'm baffled at how pointing out that a player is, well, not good will get you lambasted on this site. Like, are people actually happy with this move? Has the bar for this team fallen so low that acquiring a bad-hitting first baseman on the wrong side of 30 counts as a win?
Look, you can point out the guy's downsides or why you think this is a short-sighted trade (or whatever) without distorting the factual truth. You're getting lambasted for that. There's enough histrionic bullshit about. Just stick to the facts and make your arguments from them. You might find people agree with you if you do that.
 

Captaincoop

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And that would not be unreasonable. But at 3 games out of the playoffs, it's also not unreasonable to try and upgrade a position at virtually no cost. The downgrade at another position presumably comes with some other benefit (the prospect return).
Yeah, I think that's fair, and probably the way to look at this trade, as opposed to it being part of a long-term plan.
 

joe dokes

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Eric Hosmer is probably the biggest punchline in the league, largely because of his contract. He's an immensely frustrating player whose reputation both at the plate and on the field has almost always far exceeded his production. I genuinely would rather give the next three years to Dalbec, who at least has upside.

I'm partially reserving judgment because there's still a lot of time left and we don't know the prospect attached to the trade. If it's Campusano, then I like the deal a lot more. But as for Hosmer, it's basically no better than getting James Loney -- except now you're stuck with him for three additional years.
But the Sox aren't paying that contract. And the disconnect between his reputation and his skills are not terribly relevant and seem to be accounted for in the salary side of this deal (based on what we know so far).
 

TheYellowDart5

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Look, you can point out the guy's downsides or why you think this is a short-sighted trade (or whatever) without distorting the factual truth. You're getting lambasted for that. There's enough hystrionic bullshit about. Just stick to the facts and make your arguments from them. You might find people agree with you if you do that.
What factual truth have I distorted? I literally quoted the man's season stats and splits. There's no cherrypicking here; hell, I *highlighted* a good stretch.
 

chawson

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But the Sox aren't paying that contract. And the disconnect between his reputation and his skills are not terribly relevant and seem to be accounted for in the salary side of this deal (based on what we know so far).
Doesn't matter. He's an absolute out machine and he's terrible with the glove (per outs above average). There are far better uses of a roster spot -- especially with the number of prospects we need to protect this winter -- than Eric Hosmer, age 33-35.
 

nvalvo

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Doesn't matter. He's an absolute out machine and he's terrible with the glove (per outs above average). There are far better uses of a roster spot -- especially with the number of prospects we need to protect this winter -- than Eric Hosmer, age 33-35.
I'll be shocked if he's on the 40-man in December.
 

joe dokes

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Doesn't matter. He's an absolute out machine and he's terrible with the glove (per outs above average). There are far better uses of a roster spot -- especially with the number of prospects we need to protect this winter -- than Eric Hosmer, age 33-35.
He's an improvement at the position, and they can ditch him in November if it comes to that.
This isn't James Loney's corpse replacing Adrian Gonzalez.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Doesn't matter. He's an absolute out machine and he's terrible with the glove (per outs above average). There are far better uses of a roster spot -- especially with the number of prospects we need to protect this winter -- than Eric Hosmer, age 33-35.
and what financial commitment do they have to Eric Hosmer to keep him on the 40 after this season? Or even the rest of this season?
 

radsoxfan

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Hosmer is mediocre, but if this team was able fill out the second half of the lineup with “mediocre” they would probably have been a playoff team.

If he’s nearly free, I’m all for it. Might even be a bit more upside here than some think (not that I’d bank on it).
 

manny

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Jul 24, 2005
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Think this one being way overthought, particularly since we have no idea of the actual trade beyond Hosmer. But seems very likely they have a near-free upgrade at 1B (and we all agree he sucks and is not a huge upgrade but he is an upgrade). They're not tied into it, he's not blocking anyone, etc. I'd say decent chance he doesn't even start next season with the Sox.
 

scottyno

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Doesn't matter. He's an absolute out machine and he's terrible with the glove (per outs above average). There are far better uses of a roster spot -- especially with the number of prospects we need to protect this winter -- than Eric Hosmer, age 33-35.
Not in 2022 there aren't
 
What's even more twisted is how questioning a deal turns into "raging that the acquisition is worthless", or that most of the posters here, presumably the ones questioning these trades, are "incredibly fucking dumb". That's weird, on a discussion board.
That second quote isn't me, so please don't put it on me. And while I definitely think that there's some valid criticism of Hosmer as a player in this thread, there are also multiple people making claims that this deal is evidence that Bloom has no idea what he's doing and is running the team into the ground.

So I think if there's a disconnect here right now, it's "Hosmer is a free pickup with little downside" versus "Hosmer is an uninspiring pickup with little upside." Both of those can be (and are) true, and where you come down on it, I think, depends on what your expectations for this team are. Is this a genuine contender? Then Hosmer is a disappointing addition to a roster that was fatally misconstructed in the offseason. Is this team building toward something better in the future while aiming for at least base competency? Then Hosmer is a fine if not helpful addition to a roster that ... well, was fatally misconstructed in the offseason. Speaking purely for myself, I want the Red Sox to be in on marquee players and impact additions, and it's disappointing that instead this roster looks like a mid-tier NL Central squad hoping and praying to reach 82 wins.
I like this take a lot; it very much rings true to me. I'm definitely in the building toward the future camp and am all for any moves that boost the team in the present without compromising that future. I think the Hosmer deal (as far as we know) fits that description well. In general I also want the Sox to be in on marquee players and impact additions, but not if it's going to compromise the organization's long term growth.

Overall I absolutely get people being blase about this deal. I don't get people being actively angry with it.
 

8slim

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I genuinely would rather give the next three years to Dalbec, who at least has upside.
I genuinely would rather stick a needle in my eye than give the next three years to Dalbec, assuming he doesn't literally morph into mid-90s Mo Vaughn starting tonight.

50 games of Hosner and then an offseason upgrade is fine.
 

staz

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I don't see this as a major component of any "plan". This seems to be Bloom jumping on an opportunity.

Hosner squashed going to DC and the Padres had to move him. They also are willing to eat a substantial portion of his contract. So it's kind of a no-lose for Bloom. He's an immediate upgrade to our black hole at 1B, and if he sucks we can cut him without being on the hook for much money.

Honestly, it'll surprise me if Hosner is on the roster this time next year, but it seems like there's very little downside here.
Right. Far worse would have Bloom going "No, no, no, A.J. We're not taking Hosmer, he's not on our white board..." As others have mentioned, at worst Hosmer is a better bridge to Casas than anyone in the dugout. Getting $0.80 on the dollar a year from now is a short money to give your #19 prospect in baseball a little more runway.
 

cornwalls@6

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That second quote isn't me, so please don't put it on me. And while I definitely think that there's some valid criticism of Hosmer as a player in this thread, there are also multiple people making claims that this deal is evidence that Bloom has no idea what he's doing and is running the team into the ground.



I like this take a lot; it very much rings true to me. I'm definitely in the building toward the future camp and am all for any moves that boost the team in the present without compromising that future. I think the Hosmer deal (as far as we know) fits that description well. In general I also want the Sox to be in on marquee players and impact additions, but not if it's going to compromise the organization's long term growth.

Overall I absolutely get people being blase about this deal. I don't get people being actively angry with it.
Apologies, I shouldn't have bundled it in to my reply to you.
 

Rovin Romine

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Eric Hosmer is probably the biggest punchline in the league, largely because of his contract. He's an immensely frustrating player whose reputation both at the plate and on the field has almost always far exceeded his production. I genuinely would rather give the next three years to Dalbec, who at least has upside.

I'm partially reserving judgment because there's still a lot of time left and we don't know the prospect attached to the trade. If it's Campusano, then I like the deal a lot more. But as for Hosmer, it's basically no better than getting James Loney -- except now you're stuck with him for three additional years.
Hosmer will likely turn out to be Cassas insurance. He'll likely give us a slightly-above-average bat and decent 1B defense if Cassas struggles. You get the whole 2022 Dalbec/Shaw/? role filled by Hosmer. Since the Sox will have very little salary to worry about (if the deal is as reported) they can very likely move him - and while not sexy, he has some value in plugging the same kind of (emergency?) hole on another team in 2023 or 2024.

So, oddly, I'd say this is a 2023 move - they're just pulling the trigger on it now. I mean if Hosmer was available as a FA for $4m (or whatever) during the off-season, he'd be a perfect fit for that role.
 

chawson

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I genuinely would rather stick a needle in my eye than give the next three years to Dalbec, assuming he doesn't literally morph into mid-90s Mo Vaughn starting tonight.

50 games of Hosner and then an offseason upgrade is fine.
I'm done with Dalbec too, but there's a conceivable chance he puts it together, and he's controlled through 2026. With Hosmer there's no upside whatsoever, and he doesn't improve the infield's defense.

Again, I'm still waiting for details.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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IF SD is picking up most of his salary Hosmer is a free asset. Not a great one but still with value. There shouldn’t be any difficulty flipping him when Casas is ready.

In the interim the team is better.

So what to do with Dalbec?
 

Cesar Crespo

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IF SD is picking up most of his salary Hosmer is a free asset. Not a great one but still with value. There shouldn’t be any difficulty flipping him when Casas is ready.

In the interim the team is better.

So what to do with Dalbec?
Can't they send him down to AAA?
 

JM3

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IF SD is picking up most of his salary Hosmer is a free asset. Not a great one but still with value. There shouldn’t be any difficulty flipping him when Casas is ready.

In the interim the team is better.

So what to do with Dalbec?
Trade him if anyone wants him, otherwise let him play against lefties? We also don't exactly have a 3B right now either.
 

RedOctober3829

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So I think if there's a disconnect here right now, it's "Hosmer is a free pickup with little downside" versus "Hosmer is an uninspiring pickup with little upside." Both of those can be (and are) true, and where you come down on it, I think, depends on what your expectations for this team are. Is this a genuine contender? Then Hosmer is a disappointing addition to a roster that was fatally misconstructed in the offseason. Is this team building toward something better in the future while aiming for at least base competency? Then Hosmer is a fine if not helpful addition to a roster that ... well, was fatally misconstructed in the offseason. Speaking purely for myself, I want the Red Sox to be in on marquee players and impact additions, and it's disappointing that instead this roster looks like a mid-tier NL Central squad hoping and praying to reach 82 wins.
They're only even getting Hosmer because the Padres are taking on a bunch of salary. Otherwise, it would make no sense. Obviously, their plan at 1B failed due to the Casas injury this year. They need a competent 1B for the rest of the season and somebody who can fill the spot if Casas isn't ready for April 2023. You're right: if this is their idea of an impact move then it's one thing. But Hosmer certainly doesn't preclude them from doing whatever they want this offseason to retool the roster. I don't think anybody has any ideas about them contending, so this move is about getting through the rest of the season without embarrassing defense at 1B and having a placeholder in '23 in case Casas is not ready(or if they move him for an impact player).
 

A Bad Man

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Interesting shift statistics for Hosmer - crushed the shift through 2019, owned by the shift 2020-22:


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