Celtics vs. Bucks, Round 2 Discussion

Who you got?

  • Celts in 4

    Votes: 7 3.3%
  • Celts in 5

    Votes: 69 32.5%
  • Celts in 6

    Votes: 106 50.0%
  • Celts in 7

    Votes: 25 11.8%
  • Bucks in 4

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Bucks in 5

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Bucks in 6

    Votes: 3 1.4%
  • Bucks in 7

    Votes: 2 0.9%

  • Total voters
    212
  • Poll closed .

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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Also - has Connaughton always had that shot where he doesn't dip at all? He like catches the ball at his eyeballs and just releases right from there. Not sure I have ever seen that before
Every time I see it, I’m surprised by it. It’s a great release, and I can only imagine how many hours of practice went into making it feel normal for him.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't think he is a realistic target, but there are plenty of minutes available on this team for a shooter like Connaughton. Any 3 of those 4 can play together at the same time
Yeah but that 4th guard is always going to be a rookie deal or a vet min-type on a roster with our salary structure…….not a 4/$50m kind of guy.
 

joe dokes

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Also - has Connaughton always had that shot where he doesn't dip at all? He like catches the ball at his eyeballs and just releases right from there. Not sure I have ever seen that before
Bill Bradley

And in general, long-distance shooters from the era.
 

greek_gawd_of_walks

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I'd really love it if Rob could go tomorrow. If he can, start him, even if it's just for a total of 10-15 minutes for the game(or more as a Willis Reed appearance). Grant has been better coming of the bench in the playoffs (small sample obviously), but more so in the regular season.

He's a -.3 +/- minus per 200 possessions when starting vs a +6.2 as a reserve in 2021-22. Keep everything as close to normal in regards to roles and comfort zones as possible. It may all be static, but that's what I'm left to analyze just under 24 hours from top off.

Hopefully, it's both Rob being able to give them 25 minutes and four or five valuable fouls, and Grant getting into a groove anchoring the bench unit.
 

riboflav

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Limiting the turnovers to 8 is huge (stopping the Bucks transition game).
Derrick White adds quite a bit of ball security (16/3 AST/TO ratio in the Series)

Live turnovers are huge, freaking Jaylen Brown was lucky he didn't have 6-7 last night. The dude needs to shoot, straight-line drive or move the ball. His handle in traffic is nerve-wracking.
This is something very rarely appreciated by many fans. I used to argue with my assistant who preferred a slow pace bc of his concern for turnovers but most uptempo/transition turnovers are dead balls. So I fired him. Anyways, I believe SQ is doing a study on this topic using this previous season so hopefully he'll have results soon.

EDIT: I've heard there are now several college teams that track the distinction and I imagine most NBA teams do now.
 

riboflav

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This game looked weird early on - for a while the Celtics were only taking threes and Milwaukee was missed everything from the field but Giannis was hitting his free thrws. At one point, the Celtics had a 9-6 lead that was 3 Celtics threes to 6 Giannis FTs.

After an even first, the Celtics defense locked down in the second quarter, holding Milwaukee to 17 points and expanding their lead to 10 at the half. At times in this quarter, Tatum seemed to be playing at a different level than he had been earlier in the series, but he also seemed to take himself out of his own zone with his incessant complaining about not getting calls. He finished with 18 at the half, and his performace in the was very good, maybe his best of the series to that point.

Third quarter, Tatum had his best quarter of the game to that point (13 points), the Celtics built their lead to 18, and then they let up, allowing Milaukee back into it. With 7:20 left, Brown knowcked down a deep 3 to put the Celtics up 18. Milwaukee answered with a 12-2 run over the next 4 minutes and it felt like the Celtics were about to give up another one. But they closed out the quarter 13-8 to build the lead back to 13. Whoops, actually a 12 point lead because someone, I thik Tatum, had a foot on the 3 point line.

Celtics up 82-70 in the 4th, and after a Brown layup to build the lead to 14 at 11:25, they go ice cold for a 2.5 minute stretch where their only offense is a single Tatum free throw and they allow 11 points (Giannis +1, Connaughton 3, Giannis free throws, Giannis 3) to cut the lead to 4, 85-81. And that is where the magic happens.

The Celtics have a bad offensive set that leads to them needing to inbound with onlt 2 or 3 seconds on the clock. Smart inbounds to Tatum on the right side and he drills a difficult, contested 16 footer - that's his 3rd straight Celtic point counting the earlier free throw. Connaughton scores, Tatum comes back and hits a three, six straight. Celtics get a stop, Tatum hits a 7-footer, for 8 straight. Giannis dunks, Connaughton scores, Tatum drills a three, 11 straight, and Celtics up 8. 3.5 minutes from Giannis' three to cut the lead to 4, Celtics are back up 8.

After a stop and a timeout, Ime draws up a perfecr ATO, with Tatum as a decoy to get Brown a wide open catch and shoot three, which he drills, for an 11 point lead. Smart hits a jumper for 13. With 3:25 to go, Giannis hits a pair of free throws to cut it to 11. Celtics call their "use it or lose it" TO to get Tatum some rest. Then at 3:02 the Bucuks call their "use it or lose it" TO to get Giannis some rest.

At 2:38, Tatum pretty ices it with a drive from the top of the key that shows just how good he had it going. Milaukee has left the lane wide open and Tatum from above the 3 point line at the top of the key, drives past his man and goes up for what is intended as a thunderous dunk. Late arriving help fouls Tatum and stops him from dunking but he is able to lay it in through the contact and hit the free throw. Jrue answers with a three, Tatum misses a three, but White pulls down a huge offensive rebound, Tatum gets fouled, hits his free throws. 13 point lead, under 2 minutes left, Jrue misses another three, and that is basically all she wrote.

One weird little footnote: at 1:24, Bud emptied his bench, and Milwaukee's scrubs, led by Thanasis "My brother is really fucking good" Antetokounmpo, really got after it, pressing the Celtics deep bench, playing like there was a championship at stake. Not much happened with the scoring and the game ended with a 13 point win.
I found this extremely strange. To concede that early was something. Maybe Bud hasn't seen the Reggie miller game?
 

jmcc5400

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I found this extremely strange. To concede that early was something. Maybe Bud hasn't seen the Reggie miller game?
I don't know about the rest of you, but I was still plenty nervous when Milwaukee cut it to 10 and then Theis shoved Giannis's brother. Initially, I thought the whistle was on Theis and my heart skipped a beat.
 

riboflav

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I don't know about the rest of you, but I was still plenty nervous when Milwaukee cut it to 10 and then Theis shoved Giannis's brother. Initially, I thought the whistle was on Theis and my heart skipped a beat.
I panicked as well lol
 

ugmo33

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Tatum has deservedly gotten most of the attention post-game but how about a little love for Smart playing like he had something to prove? 7 assists 0 turnovers, 5/9 for 3 and really helped them pull ahead in the first half. I had a feeling he would press after the terrible ending of game 5, and I'm not surprised he put up something like 9 3s, but I did not expect them to go down
 

riboflav

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Tatum has deservedly gotten most of the attention post-game but how about a little love for Smart playing like he had something to prove? 7 assists 0 turnovers, 5/9 for 3 and really helped them pull ahead in the first half. I had a feeling he would press after the terrible ending of game 5, and I'm not surprised he put up something like 9 3s, but I did not expect them to go down
His defense drives me crazy (not a popular take here) but he has no fear and that is invaluable in the playoffs.
 

riboflav

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The lack of dip on the shot defies all of physics in what makes a good shot bc there cannot be momentum but damn it works for some and they must practice it a TON. My 10-yr old is surrounded by dumb coaches who stress legs on a shot when it's really a dip and momentum. Like 8-year olds can make threes if you teach them the dip. So it is something to see guys who shoot well without it.
 

Reverend

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These are related. Giannis had *only* 3 offensive rebounds. MIL didn;t get very many overall. And the C's had few turnovers.
Those seem to be the key indicators in this series.
Do you mean based on 20 total? Because he hadn't had 3 since game 1. He had 3 three times in five against CHI though.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Tatum has deservedly gotten most of the attention post-game but how about a little love for Smart playing like he had something to prove? 7 assists 0 turnovers, 5/9 for 3 and really helped them pull ahead in the first half. I had a feeling he would press after the terrible ending of game 5, and I'm not surprised he put up something like 9 3s, but I did not expect them to go down
Marcus played like he was unconscious and he may have been since he said he didn't sleep at all after G5. :)
 

PedrosRedGlove

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I found this extremely strange. To concede that early was something. Maybe Bud hasn't seen the Reggie miller game?
He did this in game 4 as well. Agreed that it felt strange. However unlikely it is to come back down 10 in the final 2 minutes, it's not impossible, and does seem like a quick trigger to concede in the playoffs.
 

Spelunker

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I would very much like a good Jaylen game. He's had a terrible series, and this would be a great time to redeem himself.
 

dhellers

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Tatum has deservedly gotten most of the attention post-game but how about a little love for Smart playing like he had something to prove? 7 assists 0 turnovers, 5/9 for 3 and really helped them pull ahead in the first half. I had a feeling he would press after the terrible ending of game 5, and I'm not surprised he put up something like 9 3s, but I did not expect them to go down
Its great that Marcus cares enough to care. But one can't really blame him for Jaylen knocking the ball out of his hands on the rebound, or Jason and Al freezing and forcing him to improvise to avoid
a 5 second violation (and then doing what he could with a busted play).

IOW: if it works, Marcus you should feel bad about letting Milw get within four, necessitating a JT explosion :)
 

nazz45

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That’s a rather harsh assessment on Jaylen Brown. He had an awful Game 1 but has been consistently good since, including an explosive first half in Game 2 that basically put away the game. Averaging over 24 ppg on 50/47/84 shooting (or an elite 654 ts%), almost 7 boards and 4 assists per game over last 5.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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The last few games the refs have (imo) been favoring the Celts while driving to the net.

Now that its game 7, I'm concerned that they just let them play. If they aren't blowing the whistle and are letting GA lower the shoulder, this game is over before it started.

I'm usually for swallowing the whistle. But not with the way GA plays.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I would very much like a good Jaylen game. He's had a terrible series, and this would be a great time to redeem himself.
It seems a harsh to say that Jayeln has had a terrible series. He had a bad game (game 1) and has been inconsistent at times. But after game 1 he has been averaging 24.6 points on 50% from the field (47% from three), 6.8 rebounds, 4.2 assists. Game 1 was really, really bad, but he's been much better since.
The last few games the refs have (imo) been favoring the Celts while driving to the net.

Now that its game 7, I'm concerned that they just let them play. If they aren't blowing the whistle and are letting GA lower the shoulder, this game is over before it started.

I'm usually for swallowing the whistle. But not with the way GA plays.
So, with officiating, one can never predict what will happen. But Giannis has shown in this series that he doesn't need any favors.

My theory of the officiating is this:

In game 3, in Milwaukee, Coach Bud intimidated the refs by challenging an offensive foul called on Giannis in the first quarter with the Bucks up 3. He lost the challenge, but from that point until the end of game 4, the refs allowed Giannis to barrel into anyone whenever he felt like it.

For games 5-6, the refs reined things back in.

Here are Giannis' numbers:

Games 1 and 2: 37.8 minutes, 26.0 points on 39% shooting (16% from three), 11.0 rebounds, 9.5 assists, 5.5 turnovers
Games 3 and 4: 40.0 minutes, 38.0 points on 48% shooting (10% from three), 15.0 rebounds, 6.5 assists, 3.5 turnovers
Games 5 and 6: 40.6 minutes, 42.0 points on 53% shooting (50% from three), 15.5 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 6.5 turnovers

Statistically, ending the slugfest did not seem to have a big negative impact on Giannis' productivity.
 

tims4wins

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The last few games the refs have (imo) been favoring the Celts while driving to the net.

Now that its game 7, I'm concerned that they just let them play. If they aren't blowing the whistle and are letting GA lower the shoulder, this game is over before it started.

I'm usually for swallowing the whistle. But not with the way GA plays.
But if that means they aren't sending Giannis to the line 15-20 times, I think that is a huge win for the Celts. If they can play him physically, he will miss more shots than he makes, and his numbers will look a lot more like games 1-2.
 

RSN Diaspora

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Hi in my thoughts are we doing anything for
Hope this wasn’t a stroke.

On another topic, does anyone know how much time the League/officials spend reviewing officiating and public criticism of such in an ongoing series? Obviously we expect Giannis to get borderline calls, but would something egregious that got a lot of post-game attention (like GA’s five-step layup and/or elbowing of Smart) result in any kind of impact on the game seven officials?
 

NomarsFool

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I’ve been pretty okay with the officials last few games. It’s a little hard to use the overall numbers because the Celtics have been putting up a lot of 3PA so they obviously aren’t going to get to the line that much.

My#1 key performance metric is does Giannis get called for at least 1 if not 2 offensive fouls. Because he commits multiple offensive fouls a game. If they don’t call at least 1, that’s not good and makes him impossible to defend.
 

TomTerrific

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He did this in game 4 as well. Agreed that it felt strange. However unlikely it is to come back down 10 in the final 2 minutes, it's not impossible, and does seem like a quick trigger to concede in the playoffs.
The big substitution came with 1:24 remaining when the Cs were up 105-92, and had the ball. Not that this number is sacrosanct, but the Bill James limit *is* a fairly reasonable guide as to when to give up, and the Bucks were definitely beyond that.

EDIT: Even the Reggie Miller game doesn't defy that limit, BTW. The closest it came was at the start of the sequence with the Knicks up 6 with 18 seconds left, just before Miller hits his first 3. I think James himself states that he's aware of only a couple of exceptions, one the 1974 Duke-UNC game where Duke lost after being up 8 with 17 seconds left.
 
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sezwho

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I’ve been pretty okay with the officials last few games. It’s a little hard to use the overall numbers because the Celtics have been putting up a lot of 3PA so they obviously aren’t going to get to the line that much.

My#1 key performance metric is does Giannis get called for at least 1 if not 2 offensive fouls. Because he commits multiple offensive fouls a game. If they don’t call at least 1, that’s not good and makes him impossible to defend.
Spot on. Officials have too tough a job for me to really get after them, but g3&4 crossed the line such that it contorted the game. Bodies regularly lying on under the basket, guys dropping from elbows to the head, etc.

Some sign they won’t accept the Giannis head down bull rush is all I’m asking for.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Spot on. Officials have too tough a job for me to really get after them, but g3&4 crossed the line such that it contorted the game. Bodies regularly lying on under the basket, guys dropping from elbows to the head, etc.

Some sign they won’t accept the Giannis head down bull rush is all I’m asking for.
The (not so) simple answer to stop the Giannis bull rush is to be in defensive position and to not allow him to get downhill. We’ve done a solid job this series imo considering the task.
 

BaseballJones

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The lack of dip on the shot defies all of physics in what makes a good shot bc there cannot be momentum but damn it works for some and they must practice it a TON. My 10-yr old is surrounded by dumb coaches who stress legs on a shot when it's really a dip and momentum. Like 8-year olds can make threes if you teach them the dip. So it is something to see guys who shoot well without it.
Dipping takes longer though. So what *I* teach is to catch the ball low - which means that an ideal pass is about waist high, not chest high - and rise from there. If you catch it high, then dip, then rise, that takes about 0.3 seconds, and a good athlete can cover a LOT of ground in that span of time, making an open shot become a contested shot, and making a contested shot a no shot.

So start low - come around the screen or stand at the wing bent low, all ready to rise the moment the ball hits your hand. That way you get the same momentum as the dip but it saves you tons of valuable time.

I taught a local kid this years ago randomly at the gym - along with proper footwork of course - and he went from a single digit scorer in high school to averaging 20+ points a game and getting D1 offers. All because he suddenly found himself a lot more open for shots. Not because the defense did anything different, but because he got his shot off so much quicker, he became incredibly hard to defend.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Dipping takes longer though. So what *I* teach is to catch the ball low - which means that an ideal pass is about waist high, not chest high - and rise from there. If you catch it high, then dip, then rise, that takes about 0.3 seconds, and a good athlete can cover a LOT of ground in that span of time, making an open shot become a contested shot, and making a contested shot a no shot.

So start low - come around the screen or stand at the wing bent low, all ready to rise the moment the ball hits your hand. That way you get the same momentum as the dip but it saves you tons of valuable time.

I taught a local kid this years ago randomly at the gym - along with proper footwork of course - and he went from a single digit scorer in high school to averaging 20+ points a game and getting D1 offers. All because he suddenly found himself a lot more open for shots. Not because the defense did anything different, but because he got his shot off so much quicker, he became incredibly hard to defend.
Good work!! It is incredible what coaching can do for high school kids during their huge developmental stage. When I was that age I learned more in one week at a basketball camp (from the late Joe Hassett Sr at Our Lady of Providence) than I did in my 4 years of high school. It’s no wonder I was a late bloomer post-HS and into college. Looking back that guy has no business coaching the game of basketball and I’m not being that bitter ex-player…..one year our star players coach recognized how lost he was and voluntarily ran our practices.
 

mandro ramtinez

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Hope this wasn’t a stroke.

On another topic, does anyone know how much time the League/officials spend reviewing officiating and public criticism of such in an ongoing series? Obviously we expect Giannis to get borderline calls, but would something egregious that got a lot of post-game attention (like GA’s five-step layup and/or elbowing of Smart) result in any kind of impact on the game seven officials?
No, I think it was a very weird butt voice to text while walking around Disney with my kids. Sincerely appreciate the concern.

Hope the other guys help out JT and JB this afternoon. Don’t want to rely solely on heroics again.
 

Auger34

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I would very much like a good Jaylen game. He's had a terrible series, and this would be a great time to redeem himself.
He’s had one bad game….

G1: 4-13 (3-9 from 3), 12 Pts, 9 Rebs, 4 Ast
G2: 11-18 (6-10 from 3), 30 Pts, 6 Rebs, 6 Ast. He had the best game of any Celtic.
G3: 8-16 (1-5 from 3), 27 Pts, 12 Rebs, 4 Ast
G4: 5-11 (2-5), 18 pts, 3 Reb, 1 Ast
G5: 9-19 (3-7), 26 Pts, 8 Reb, 6 Ast
G6: 7-16 (4-7), 22 Pts, 5 reb, 4 Ast

Series Average: 46.4 FG%, 42.2 3P%, 22.5 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 4.2 APG

This is absolutely not a terrible series or a case where he needs to redeem himself today
 

Bread of Yaz

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Connaughton is from Boston? Huh. I'm surprised that hasn't been mentioned by the announcers.

/sarcasm
The last few games the refs have (imo) been favoring the Celts while driving to the net.

Now that its game 7, I'm concerned that they just let them play. If they aren't blowing the whistle and are letting GA lower the shoulder, this game is over before it started.

I'm usually for swallowing the whistle. But not with the way GA plays.
Refs definitely not letting them play!
 

tims4wins

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Feels like Game 7 is going to be "the Grant Williams game". He's been a much better player at home, notoriously streaky and when he breaks out of a slump, gets white hot. His physicality and defensive versatility alone warrants him being out there a ton (which has been the case all season long) and Milwaukee will give him wide open looks. Feels like he's going to have to be one of the minor heroes for the Cs.

Kinda like "the Kelly Olynyk game".
BUMP
 

jablo1312

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They had double digit 4th quarter leads in 5 of the 7 games. Middleton makes it a better series but they are the better team.
 

Just a bit outside

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Celtics just need to play. Forget the refs, forget it is the playoffs, just play. They are the better team with Middleton out and just need to play the full 48 minutes. It is a make or miss league but even with the Bucks shooting in the fourth quarter the Celtics win if they just play the game the way they have for the last 3 months.
Had it the whole way.