Correct. I meant a steal by the man guarding the inbounds pass.
I mean that’s pass couldn’t have traveled more than 3’ before Grant knocked it down.
Celtics vs. Nets, Round 1 Discussion
- Thread starter tims4wins
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I mean that’s pass couldn’t have traveled more than 3’ before Grant knocked it down.
Huh, I thought Nash has been pretty good, given the hand he was dealt. Brooklyn has come to play on defense, and has gotten buy-in on that end from their guys, despite a lot of physical limitations.
I think at this point in his career KD knows exactly how difficult it is to win a title and him just pairing up with another star would not automatically guarantee them one.
If Simmons has some grievance-related ulterior motive to come back this year for even five minutes then he has painted himself in a PR corner. Granted, he may not care, but nevertheless:
If he comes back in Game 4 and plays well and the Nets win the series, sure that's a good outcome for him, but that's not happening.
If he comes back and looks OK and the Nets lose the series anyway then questions will come as to why he couldn't come back earlier.
If he comes back and looks not good then all off-season there will be questions as to why he came back like he did and whether he is the same player that we used to see.
If he comes back and exacerbates his back down 3-0 then everybody looks bad.
Presumably he won't play. I suppose he wouldn't fit in Flea's stuffed animal pants from the Bust A Move video but those would otherwise be a good attire choice for Game 4.
If he comes back in Game 4 and plays well and the Nets win the series, sure that's a good outcome for him, but that's not happening.
If he comes back and looks OK and the Nets lose the series anyway then questions will come as to why he couldn't come back earlier.
If he comes back and looks not good then all off-season there will be questions as to why he came back like he did and whether he is the same player that we used to see.
If he comes back and exacerbates his back down 3-0 then everybody looks bad.
Presumably he won't play. I suppose he wouldn't fit in Flea's stuffed animal pants from the Bust A Move video but those would otherwise be a good attire choice for Game 4.
I am failing to understand the grievance related reason for him to play. Seems to me his case is stronger if he sits out the entire year.
This is a great quote by John Karalis in BSJ today: “In Game 3, Tatum and Brown were lions picking out injured gazelles for dinner, finding Brooklyn’s weakest defenders and hurting their feelings. ”
sorry I misunderstood.
Here's Ingram doing it four times in a row. Yes, same possession.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSyitpz2mMM
There have been some silly turnovers and whatnot but Jaylen has had a great series so far. He has taken over at key moments, been relentless getting to his spots in the paint, and really forced the issue on Brooklyn’s smaller weaker defenders.
And while he hasn’t quite gone off yet from deep, his makes have been well-timed, I believe all 4 in the series coming in the 4th quarter. He and Tatum both have been so good about sticking with it after struggling early in games.
And while he hasn’t quite gone off yet from deep, his makes have been well-timed, I believe all 4 in the series coming in the 4th quarter. He and Tatum both have been so good about sticking with it after struggling early in games.
I think Simmons plays. It's the perfect no-lose situation. If he comes on and stinks, well BRK was going to lose anyways. If BRK looks better at all, he'll be given credit.
The bigger question to me is whose minutes is he taking? I mean is he going to perform any better than Bruce Brown on either end of the court? (Brown has been playing pretty good on the defensive end.) If he takes Claxton's minutes, will BRK still get the ORebs that Claxton got? Are they going to play Bruce Brown and Simmons together? That seems like it will really allow BOS to pack the paint.
If I'm Nash and I'm going to play Simmons, I'd trot out the Claxton / Simmons / Brown / KD / KI lineup to see if they can get some stops and hopefully generate enough offense from transition and KD/KI to make up for the lack of shooting, but desperate times call for desperate measures.
I'm going to guess that Simmons will play limited minutes, will have both flashes of brilliance and flashes of rust, and it really won't move the needle.
I'm not defending Nash but in terms of the Xs and Ox, he has to have multiple assistants who can pound that stuff out (like Ime did last year I'm sure). The real question to me is what has Nash been able to install?
I just read something that Coach K told DA and POBOBS that one thing about JT is that he wanted to be coached hard. Not sure if KD is like that at this stage of his career or if KI is like that at all. KD and KI probably picked Nash because they know he wouldn't coach them hard. So maybe there's stuff that Nash wanted to do that he couldn't, particularly because of KI's absence.
It will be interesting to see what he does with a full BRK squad next year.
Hey he's playing well in the playoffs, but in a different uniform.
i agree on the effort—-that appears to be Nash’s strength last year and this. But the X and Os is suspect, and that’s both a micro (within a game ensuring they hunt PP, etc) and macro (have we defined how we play around big 2? Do we have sets to attack different defenses/gaps?) is pretty lacking.
plus, the mental errors are legion for Nets…stolen inbounds passes, not covering cutters, etc. that is of course a lot about players too…but I do think is in part about coaching.
As I said initially, the roster has been in flux all year and I can’t assess whether Nash is actually good or bad—but the results on court this year don’t reflect coaching success up against all that mess he’s been stuck with
That's fair. I cut him some slack since it's clearly Durant's team, and Kyrie took himself out of the team for a lot of the year, specifically when you'd be developing those playing styles.
Maybe it's worth changing coaches, and try to find someone who can get through to Kyrie and get KD's respect. Something of a longshot, but who knows.
I think Tatum can do a good enough job on this, and at this point in the series KD has not played well enough to get 18 fts out of a 14 flat. It is harder but, the Cs can still double. It may lead to similar results where Brown and Claxton are left having to make plays. But KD has to go one on one and make some shots over Tatum if they are going to win.
It's fascinating. The Nets have been shooting really well for the series and if you look at their success rate from the floor you would not expect them to be down in the series much less getting shut out in terms of wins.
Game 1 Nets .538 FG%, .458 3P% Celtics .472 FG%, .364 3P%
Game 2 Nets .461 FG%, .476 3P% Celtics .520 FG%, .355 3P%
Game 3 Nets .506 FG%, .414 3P% Celtics .500 FG%, .308 3P%
The Nets have been the better shooting team especially from 3. The Celtics have been winning by forcing more turnovers, grabbing more rebounds, getting more assists and getting more points in the paint.
I suspect the Nets (KD & Kyrie) will use Nash as a scapegoat after getting swept on Monday(or Weds). There are 20 different excuses for the Nets: injuries, vax, playing hard down the stretch for seeding, Harden, Simmons etc BUT the easiest thing to do is fire the HC, get Harris, Simmons back, cull some of the chaff on this roster, add some better vets next season.
The Celtic's defense will travel against Giannis. This sweep has less to do with the Nets head coach/KD and more to do with how freaking good the Celtic's defense is.
Kudos to IME & Brad. IME instilled his .5 offense, strong defense-first approach & coached his players up all season. President Brad Stevens had the courage to trade offense for defense-first players at every turn. Starting with Kemba, our 3rd leading scorer last season and passing on Fournier. He found a market inefficiency in the NBA and has relentlessly hit it at every turn. The Celtic dominant run is starting a year earlier than I thought
The Celtic's defense will travel against Giannis. This sweep has less to do with the Nets head coach/KD and more to do with how freaking good the Celtic's defense is.
Kudos to IME & Brad. IME instilled his .5 offense, strong defense-first approach & coached his players up all season. President Brad Stevens had the courage to trade offense for defense-first players at every turn. Starting with Kemba, our 3rd leading scorer last season and passing on Fournier. He found a market inefficiency in the NBA and has relentlessly hit it at every turn. The Celtic dominant run is starting a year earlier than I thought
I don't think that's going to work either. The C's are just not going to let KD go full iso against a favorable match-up. They will trap off the pick, or they will run a double, they will help off the dribble, etc. They'll do what they need to make sure nobody is left completely on an island, and then live with the consequences after KD passes out of it.
When KD passes out, Brown has gotten a few easy buckets. Curry has had some too-open threes (hence his great percentage in the series). But in general, their passing, spacing, and motion has not been good enough to score at a high efficiency. They are turning the ball over and stalling out as the Celtics scramble to recover from the help on KD.
These are the types of things a team needs a full season together to mesh on. They're the reason teams typically aren't just able to show up for the playoffs and be contenders, even if they have a couple of the best players in the world. A good defensive team can force you out of your comfort zone - in this case KD iso - and make you play another way. The Nets do not have the chemistry and discipline to move the ball crisply and punish the Cs for what they're doing right now.
JVG was hammering the transition thing on the broadcast as well. I think the big thing here is that Durant is just exhausted and I don't know if he is going to be up to running the floor super hard. Between being physical with him on defense and the Nets being so bad defensively that Durant can't coast on that end is really wearing him down. It's so strange to see this happening. It's crazy to me a team needs to focus on getting in transition to score when they have KEVIN DURANT, the greatest ISO scorer in the game, or they need to do things like dust-off Blake Griffin or play Mills/Curry/Kyrie all together at once because the offense is so ineffective.
The Nets also aren't taking good shots...
Game 1.. 24 3PA (to the Celtics' 33) So they shot better from 3, but got less points out of it.
Game 2... 21 3PA (to the Celtics' 31)
Game 3... 29 3PA (Celtics' 39)... also notable, they went 5 out at the end when they were desperate, took a ton of 3s and started to eat away at the lead, but ran out of time.
The Nets through 3 games are averaging 24.7 3PA per game.
For the season, the least volume for 3PA per game was the Chicago Bulls at 28.8 attempts.
The Nets are playing early 2000s basketball out there on offense.
The Celtics are also shooting below their season average 3PA a game, but right around 18/19th in the league... not surprising you'd expect 3P defense to tighten up a bit in the post season.
My buddy who's a diehard Nets fan and season ticket holder (really!) is convinced Nash will be fired if they are swept. I'm skeptical of this, considering the bullshit Nash has had to put up with and that he's got two years left on a pretty big contract.
Lots of crushing Nash, but I’m not sure how he should be doing this much differently.
He gets fired only if K1 and K2 desire it. If they need a fall guy, he’s gone, but if they are of a mind to build around the Ks and BS next year I think he gets another crack: sweep or not.
The Nets look incredibly sloppy on both offense and defense - the effort is there, but they seem to be good for a half dozen stupid turnovers each game and countless defensive breakdowns. You can certainly blame some of that on personnel and lack of continuity but these are coaching problems first and foremost. I don't see that Nash is adding any value here. You can't fire the players, and someone has to pay if they get swept.
Nash has no idea how to coach defense as he spent most of his career with D’Antoni. Ironically the Nets had Udoka but chose a flashy name.
This is it for me---there's some good things Nash did last year to meld the personalities and this year was chaos, so it's totally reasonable to cut him a break. But you also have to ask about the evidence he's adding a lot, and I don't really see that either. Maybe he will/coud but to date...hard to see. Such a tough roster and this year, set of other factors but also a lot of bad mistakes this series for them.
I also don't know that the coach exists, or at least is gettable, that can manage this roster. Durant is rarely an issue, but he's also not a vocal leader/alpha so you need the coach to provide that. Kyrie is I suspect unmanageable at this point; Simmons likely is as well (Doc, who has a bunch of limits as a coach but is an elite people manager, couldn't get Simmons to succeed). Layer in vets with some fixed ideas about roles and how they play (Drummond for sure, I suspect Curry and to some degree Griffin) and it's just a tough roster and set of personalities for anyone. A Pop/Phil Jackson type has the gravitas to maybe make it work but one of those ain't happening and the other is long gone over the hill. Trying for a recent player makes some sense (e.g. the Nash hire) and I just don't know what you try to do next---a Van Gundy type in theory makes sense but unless they reshape the roster the personalities will clash. So I expect you're left with Nash and perhaps enhancing the assistants a bit, or trying a similar profile (ex player with some credibility telling superstars how to enhance their impact).
It isn't likely all Nash, but he's an easy move to appease the fanbase l, and if you think Kyrie (to a lesser extent KD) is willing to have and listen to a real coach there are proven good options out there
Also....Kyrie's contract remains an open question. if you're the Nets you probably have to offer him what you can if he opts out, but boy...I just don't love the idea of paying him $200 mil. And who knows what he will do, especially if this ends poorly (hopefully in one more game!) he is a threat to look for greener pastures.
But where would those greener pastures be?
They’ll pay him because KD wants it. They don’t really have any reasonable path to get a true second elite scorer that’ll please KD.
They'll pay him, but I agree, this disappearing act has been not confidence inducing.
My belief, which others may see less cynically, is that Kyrie is motivated to not end up being held accountable for anything that might go wrong. So, he looks at Nets and sees a risk of a declining situation and would prefer somewhere that has a different dynamic. I could imagine him believing Charlotte needs a "veteran star leader" for example (which presumably involves a Hayward sign and trade). I agree if KD wants him back Nets will offer it, as they don't have other options. I am just not ruling out that Kyrie seeks a way out (again) himself.
Other teams which are not inconceivable to me? Knicks; maybe Pistons; maybe (unlikely, but not impossible imo) Lakers.
Brooklyn owes KD $189 million through 2025-26. With or without Kyrie, can they build a winner around him? If not, who can take on that money?
Please start a new thread devoted to this very topic. It has nothing to do with the series or the NBA or basketball.I can’t wait to shame each and every one of them.
And for the record, I wasn't one of those people. We are watching the Celtics, and nobody here - (and I mean almost nobody except those who can post in the new thread so sorry if you weren't recognized here) - saw any of this coming as recently as a few months ago. Mostly because humans aren't great at predicting but for whatever reasons. Yet here Boston is flat out stoning KD and the Nets to Cancun and people want to conduct door to door purity test searches?
Perfectly fine but please start a new thread.
It was a joke, hence the smiley face thing.
I do take offense to your assertion nobody saw it coming though:
Can you imagine a team wanting Kyrie at this point? I know it would happen if he became available, because some team would see the talent and imagine best case scenario. But he’s proven himself to be poison a few times now.
Many many teams he's really good at basketball also a ton of teams know that they have no path to a title.. Playoff appearances and a really popular player is appealing
Yeah, I said it would happen. My point is that it’s foolish. Unless you don’t care about clubhouse chemistry, your coach maintaining respect from all players, instilling good practices in your young players, and stuff like that.
If you are the Kings or something like that you shouldn't.
Though also the Celtics young guys developed fine
It helped having guys like Smart and Horford around, too.
Do Sac or Detroit have vet guys that can balance out the Kyrie experience?
Kyrie on Detroit would probably be a disaster, that’s a team on the climb that needs to build around Cade, Bey, etc. and throwing Kyrie in the mix seems like it screw things up.
Sacramento really has no short-term future though so they don’t seem to have as much to lose.
And I’m not sure what the prospects or timetable is for expansion, but Kyrie seems like a guy that might be very attractive to an expansion team because he’ll get butts in the seats since he’s capable of going off any given night, we know he’ll bring a ton of media coverage with him, etc.
Thats a testament to our players and coaches. There’s no doubt in my mind that Kyrie set the young core back a year with his BS. Maybe it doesn’t come out roses elsewhere.
A team willingly signing Kyrie at this point would be extremely short sighted.
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Sacramento has no young guys of any worth they made a go for it move with Sabonis and failed. Kyrie isn't a guy you add to a young team that might go somewhere he's the guy who you add to a team with no future trying to make the playoffs....or the Lakers
You can go here if you want to spike the ball
https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/celtics-vs-nets-prediction-poll.36320/
just don't do any end zone dances unless the C's win in 6
at least you took a swing, some people don't even participate and then lecture
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This guy is going to listen to a real coach?
They could pay Coach K seven million a year to hang out with Mickie in Durham and Zoom call twice a week
“And I think it’s also going to change the way we see coaches. I don’t really see us having a head coach. You know what I mean? KD could be a head coach. I could be a head coach.”
https://netswire.usatoday.com/2020/10/01/kyrie-irving-i-dont-really-see-us-having-a-head-coach/
Oh I missed this part:
“I was the first … well, he said I was the first person to call him Coach Nash, but I call him Steve. Steve is great, and I have a relationship with him that’s going to build over time, bro,”
That’s not really fair to Nash. The Nets have been busting hump out there on the defensive end. The Celtics shooting stats alone are evidence that they just haven’t been that bad defensively. And a coach can’t teach thirtysomething year olds to be quicker.
The Nets are built the old fashioned way, they put together three superstars and then signed a bunch of aging ring chasers. But this is the flip side of the pace & space era. Those aging ring chasers struggle with speed and quickness.
Boston was in the unique position of being run by contemporary coach that was a forward defensive thinker. Boston is built to defend in this era, it’s tough to swing the ball side to side against all those long, quick defenders that are death on passing lanes. Especially when those guys are young and durable, they only have two guys on the wrong side of thirty, and Theis only just. And they’ll be adding another guy like this next year in Begarin and there’s always the chance that Nesmith gets himself untied on the offensive end.
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