What is Derrick White's story anyway? He had one year of college at age 22 and then was drafted 29th.
Like, what was he doing before that year of college?
Like, what was he doing before that year of college?
Celtics trade Josh Richardson, Romeo Langford and a 1st round pick to Spurs for Derrick White
- Thread starter Cellar-Door
- Start date
Lol, if they start Derrick White doesn't that mean the two big lineup is over?
Graduated HS at age 17 at 6' tall, only coach who wanted him as NAIA.. that guy got a D-II job.. White grew to 6'2" and the coach brought him in. White played 3 years of D-II ended up 6'4"-6'5", transfered to Colorado for a year, got drafted in the 1st.
Theis back to the C's. Good move imo as we needed a better backup big than Freedom - plus Theis knows the C's system
C's traded 2 for 1 in White. C's dumped 2 players for nothing. C's traded 3 players for Theis.
They had 14 guys on the roster. They now have 9? Am I missing something?
They had 14 guys on the roster. They now have 9? Am I missing something?
10 plus the 2-ways.
Smart, White, Pritchard, Brown, Tatum, Nesmith, Rob, Horford, Grant, Theis, and 2 ways Thomas and Hauser
Had we been able to keep Richardson somehow (another first? Tougher negotiating?) I woulda felt alot better.
My 13 is going nuts. Ready to Fire PBOBS.
I think we are a little worse today then yesterday. Or maybe the same. But cant see better. And that disappointing for a trade deadline.
My 13 is going nuts. Ready to Fire PBOBS.
I think we are a little worse today then yesterday. Or maybe the same. But cant see better. And that disappointing for a trade deadline.
Do we have a chance at any interesting buyouts? Every year it seems like a tease and then they all pick one of the cooler destinations.
Really? I think we're a lot better.
Players 6-10 are better than they were, and the starting 5 has been the best in the NBA over the last 5-ish weeks.
Tatum
Brown
Smart
White
TL
Al
Nesmith
PP
Theis
Grant
Edit- I think you thought they had 14 because of the Jabari cut, but then they did a 1 for 2 trade with Juancho for Bol and Dozier
It was just a lot to give up for what doesn't seem like a huge upgrade. Romeo is a pretty good defensive player and can hit the 3 probably about as well as White, no? White is a much better passer, certainly, and a veteran. So, not saying they are equal players - but I don't think Romeo is garbage.
No one really knows about Romeo's 3 point shot. He's a .305 shooter in a sample size of 105. White is at .344 in a sample size of 872.
Want to use this year as signs of improvement for Romeo? Ok, he's at .349 this year in all of 83 attempts. He doesn't shoot the ball. So even if he did hit the 3 as well, he's probably not shooting it nearly as much.
It's like the JRich/Beasley comp. Volume matters.
I think it's a big factor how people value Romeo here. I think he's mostly worthless at the current time and do not lament his departure or consider his inclusion in the trade as anything than fodder and allowing the C's to stay under the tax. If you think he's almost as good as White, then this trade is a disaster.
White career 34.4% on 872 attempts
Romeo career 30.5% on 128 attempts
Also, White is more than a 3 and D guy, he's a good NBA basketball player. He is light years better than Romeo (the real question is how much better is White than Richardson).
So
White>Richardson (I think they are closer then we are giving them credit. Hope the faith in advanced metrics are rewarded).
Theis>Schroder (actually agree with that....)
Nesmith<Romeo (though admittedly not by a whole lot....)
This could all be fixed if Nesmith started hitting even 34% of his 3s. Maybe now that Romeo isnt slowly giving him some kind of poison that causes double vision this can happen.
White>Richardson (I think they are closer then we are giving them credit. Hope the faith in advanced metrics are rewarded).
Theis>Schroder (actually agree with that....)
Nesmith<Romeo (though admittedly not by a whole lot....)
This could all be fixed if Nesmith started hitting even 34% of his 3s. Maybe now that Romeo isnt slowly giving him some kind of poison that causes double vision this can happen.
Yes on the first 2 (though I think the gap in 1 is big)
definitely not on the 3rd... but hey you gotta give something to get something, and the real answer is likely:
Buyout guy> Romeo
Buyout guy #2> Nesmith
I am a Romeo fan, I’ve been beating the drum for both him and Nesmith to get more PT this entire year…..but White is a massive upgrade over Romeo right now.
hah, I went right over it assuming you set them all up as better on the left, not... current guy on the left.
White has about twice as many 3 point attempts and makes this season as Romeo does in his entire career. The two aren't remotely comparable, at least not from that perspective.
I like the moves. White is the best player of those on the move (by Raptor, Lebron, On-off), so we upgrade the bench. Theis is quality depth. Not surprised to see one of Langford or Nesmith go, hope we picked the right one.
White is a much, much better initiator/playmaker than Richardson, which is what the team needs. He can relocate to the corner when off-ball (the Horford spot), where he's quite good. I'm a fan of this deal for this specific team.
that's fine in a vacuum BUT it's much more nuanced than that.
contract length/$$$ and most importantly FIT into the Celtic's system matters
This team just got better on defense so it's hard to pick up with analytics. Good luck to teams taking it to the rim against Boston.
Expect Granite to play more minutes going forward, think he won today
Hopefully they like what they’ve seen from Madar and Begerin which made trading the first easier as well. You only want so many rookies on the roster.
Romeo, to me, is pretty terrible. There is little about his game that excites me as a prospect, especially given the injury history. This is year 3, not year 1. I don’t even want him getting meaningful minutes for a competitive team. Low confidence, and constantly running around like a goofy.
I really like the trade with the first 3 parts. I don’t like the 2028 swap, but if we can keep Tatum/Brown, we’re fine.
I really like the trade with the first 3 parts. I don’t like the 2028 swap, but if we can keep Tatum/Brown, we’re fine.
Good point wrt Begarin: he looks like he'll deserve some playing time, and he would have been competing with Romeo and that late 1st for minutes.
More to the point that’s a pretty good starting backcourt. White’s a net positive on both sides of the ball, and that two combo guard backcourt will make life easier on the Jay Crew. One of them will need to defend the big wing spot, but that’s four switchable defenders and White’s offensive upgrade over Grant Williams and Romeo Langford make it worth the loss of Josh Richardson. I liked Josh, and wish that Boston had been able to keep him (because that would have been a great G rotation), but for White I’ll take it.
We'll probably never know but it's entirely possible neither team particularly cared which one was in it.
Not only does it suck after the top five, the top five also sucks. About the only guy I like is Jabari Smith Jr, and while he has top 25 potential, I think a top 40 player is his most likely result (an elite 3&D player that makes an all star game or two over his career).
I’m with you. A Smart/White/Richardson backcourt would have been pretty sweet.
Really enjoyed the compilation of White's highlights from just yesterday. I'm very excited about his ability to make everyone on the floor better around him. White's defensive presence is strong, he gets to his spot on the floor, and his vision looks good. He impacted several plays that don't show up on the stats, like pressing his man to give teammates opportunities to steal. His vision also looks strong, and there were a few passes he made to Poeltl that Timelord could have made to give him additional assists. His shooting is comparable to Smart, around the rim and at the three-point line. I don't see how they're on the floor together as much.
It looks like White will play some minutes tomorrow against the Nuggets just by our roster size.
It looks like White will play some minutes tomorrow against the Nuggets just by our roster size.
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Having Tatum I’d rather that the swap of ‘28 firsts was set in stone because that’d be a valuable asset.
I start with the following premises:
1) I wasn’t looking to move Richardson. I think he’s a rotation player on a good team and was a solid fit here.
2) I wasn’t looking to move Langford. I think he’s an NBA player who doesn’t hurt you and one day could help you.
3) I wasn’t looking to move draft picks or swaps. I think that they’re the only asset at PBS’s disposal to acquire a third star.
That said, I have been thinking for the last few weeks about the IT acquisition and the PG logjam in Phoenix that precipitated it, wondering if there was a modern equivalent. While Sacramento was the most discussed possibility, San Antonio also qualifies, and it was only this past summer that posters on the board were wondering if White or Murray could be had only to conclude that a deal couldn’t be made without including Smart. Somehow, Stevens acquired Richardson as a salary dump, extended him, built value into him, and turned him into a better player as well as likely starter. A non-impact first round pick and non-impact bench player seems a reasonable price to pay for that upgrade while continuing to hope that pre-game Nesmith can one day become game Nesmith.
Addition by subtraction with Schroder, Freedom and replacing Enes' minutes with Theis is at least an upgrade in the sense that he's at least a credible threat to shoot from 3 and can switch onto 3/4s without being a total liability. Richardson for White is at minimum a push and could significantly favor Boston's playmaking post-deadline - our biggest need. Losing a first in a bad draft, a swap years from now, and Langford is the cost of doing business. And I really like Romeo.
All things considered this team is most likely better in the top 8, conceivably better in the top 10 players, while having flexibility to players in the buyout market. A nice deadline for POBOBS.
Edit: this obviously ignores the fact that having White and Theis on their respective contracts, along side of Smart, as having some quality ballast for acquisition of the fabled third star in the offseason or at the deadline.
All things considered this team is most likely better in the top 8, conceivably better in the top 10 players, while having flexibility to players in the buyout market. A nice deadline for POBOBS.
Edit: this obviously ignores the fact that having White and Theis on their respective contracts, along side of Smart, as having some quality ballast for acquisition of the fabled third star in the offseason or at the deadline.
Potentially valuable.
2028 is a long way out on an NBA timeline. And as you know, if you root for the actual game versus dreaming on prospects (and there seem to be plenty of folks who care more about individual player development versus seeing a particular team compete - its not my thing but its just as valid of course), the Cs got the best actual NBA player in this trade. Meanwhile, that pick swap is a long odds lottery ticket at best.
Yeah, I don't see a real path to relevance for SA to make me worry too much about a pick swap 6 years from now. We saw with the Kings/Grizzlies how quickly pick valuations can change. I'd obviously prefer not to have that potential liability but the discount rate is pretty high here.
For your points 2&3, the thinking on Brad's end is probably that
1. after the 2022 draft, future picks are unencumbered again (although the 2028 swap lowers that pick's trade value)
2. picks lose value as soon as they're made, so the 2022 pick isn't as valuable as it seems for summer deals
3. Begarin is coming over, and is really similar to Romeo, with more upside and team control. Have to open minutes up to develop guys, or you just end up repeating Romeo's development curve.
4. Getting White makes it easier to play PP/Nesmith/Hauser (PP in particular), so you at least get a crack at developing those guys some.
5. Richardson is good and I'd like to have kept him, but as you said, rehabilitating him is the way they could get White in the first place. Also if you watch White's 3pt attempts in recent games, the quality is pretty meh relative to what JRich was getting.
Brown can walk away in the summer of 2024. Tatum can walk away in the summer of 2025. Let's not write their names on the 27-28 roster in ink, especially if Tatum continues to be ineligible for the super max.
Yeah, New Orleans doesn't exactly look to be cleaning up on the Jrue trade anytime soon.
Keeping the team competitive is how you make it easy for Brown to re-sign and Tatum to sign the supermax that makes that 28 swap totally irrelevant.
If that happens, Brad won't be the GM anymore anyway. Bit of a principal-agent problem, but it is what it is.
I don’t disagree with you but I think it’s pretty bad practice to not at least protect top 8 to top 10 on this trade at least. Just a lot of risk to acquire Derrick White (and they had already given up a fair amount)