NFL Officiating: Zebras gone wild

E5 Yaz

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Even if we accept that Corrente was trying to avoid contact with Marsh, that still doesn't explain why he took so long to throw the flag.
Marsh does his karate kick, turns toward the Steelers sideline to emphasize his play, turns around again and start jogging in Corrente's direction.
Even if Corrente waits until Marsh faces the Steelers sideline, the flag's still on the ground before the two of them come into contact.

Waiting just makes it seem as though he wanted to make a show of things.That should have been an immediate call, not when the punting teams are coming onto the field
 

pappymojo

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I mean there is no way to know intent, but to me he looks and sees the player coming and then shifts backward into the player.
I think he knew he was throwing the flag at that point, and since it was truly his moment to shine on the nationally televised stage (because we all watch for the refs), he was just in the beginning of a dramatic flag tossing wind up when Marsh bumped into him. He was shifting his weight back to his left foot so he could properly follow through on his delivery of mustard colored justice for Marsh's uncalled for travesty.
 

kenneycb

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Even if we accept that Corrente was trying to avoid contact with Marsh, that still doesn't explain why he took so long to throw the flag.
Marsh does his karate kick, turns toward the Steelers sideline to emphasize his play, turns around again and start jogging in Corrente's direction.
Even if Corrente waits until Marsh faces the Steelers sideline, the flag's still on the ground before the two of them come into contact.

Waiting just makes it seem as though he wanted to make a show of things.That should have been an immediate call, not when the punting teams are coming onto the field
As Marsh is backing up Corrente grabs at his flag, misses a time or two, then gets his flag as they make contact.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I think they must tell the refs to be emphatic when they throw the 15 yard penalty flags because they always make a production out of it.

That must be something they say in ref school -- like if you're going to do it you have to sell the shit out of it or something. Be interesting to know CFB's views on it because you see it all the time. They always have this look on their face like "so you went ahead and left me with no choice." Every time. In college and and in the pros. They never just casually drop it on the ground like they do with some penalties.

I think there are actually referring mechanics about how to throw flags in various situations. Like how they try to throw the pass interference flags at the spot of the foul to assist with enforcement. Or how neutral zone flags go way up in the air to sort of alert both teams to the fact that there's a penalty, etc.
 

joe dokes

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If you start from the ludicrous proposition that an NFL ref would intentionally hip check a player, then yeah, you can interpret that video to support your conclusion. But the conclusion remains ludicrous.
If you dont start from there, this below makes the most sense. Slowing it down a half step at a time is probably the exact wrong way to look at it.
It looks to me like he thinks Marsh is going to cut in front of him, so he steps back. Look at where Marsh is at the beginning of the loop--his right foot is on the small white line. His next step and that foot is on the long yard line. The ref thinks Marsh is going that way, and steps back, Marsh corrects, they end up in same place.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Corrente clearly leaned into Marsh. Nobody knows intent, but I'm not sure how you could view the interaction as anything else.
 

glennhoffmania

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I buy that the flag may have been coming out with or without the bump, but I don't know how anyone can watch that video and think that the ref didn't intentionally initiate contact. I have no idea what his motive was, but it happened.
Seriously. We'll never know his true intent. Maybe it was an accident. Maybe he was startled. But he absolutely without question moved into Marsh's path and caused the contact. I'm confused about how multiple people see it otherwise.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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If you start from the ludicrous proposition that an NFL ref would intentionally hip check a player, then yeah, you can interpret that video to support your conclusion. But the conclusion remains ludicrous.
If you dont start from there, this below makes the most sense. Slowing it down a half step at a time is probably the exact wrong way to look at it.
I think you and @DJnVa have the right read here. Again the other thing that isn't being given enough weight is that this person is 69 years old. I don't doubt that there are some very spry 69 year olds out there and Corrente looks to be in their ranks. But as someone who is active and is in middle age, I certainly recognize that my reflexes aren't what they once were. Its not that I don't know how to move and adjust to conditions around me. Its that the body doesn't as readily follow the mind these days.

Again, I am not ruling out that Corrente deliberately hipchecked a player whom he penalized during a key sequence on a MNF game. It just makes no sense at all.
 

normstalls

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Beyond the contact (which I think clearly was initiated by the ref), the way he arrogantly and demonstratively threw the flag was over the top and completely unnecessary. THAT was taunting.
 

joe dokes

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Seriously. We'll never know his true intent. Maybe it was an accident. Maybe he was startled. But he absolutely without question moved into Marsh's path and caused the contact. I'm confused about how multiple people see it otherwise.
He "moved into his path and caused the contact" the way two people in a supermarket aisle or office hallway each move the same way when trying to avoid running into each other. 69 year old long time official does not want to collide with an 240 pound NFL player in pads at any speed at any time. We cant know his intent. But we can know that one version of his intent -- he intended to make contact -- is not reasonable.
 

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Marciano490

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Or he stumbled slightly trying to unexpectedly get out of the way of someone fast approaching.
Fast approaching in the Austin Powers steamroller scene sense? If people are citing his age as a reason why he had to panic and hip check an nfl player jogging past him, then he shouldn’t be on the field at all.

Again, the intent inquiry is weird. Why does anyone do anything stupid, especially on a playing field? Why’s Haynesworth stomp that dude or Bertuzzi try to brain that guy with a hockey stick?
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Honestly.. That little clip is cut at the perfect spot. A millisecond before that Marsh is walking backwards, jumps and spins 180 degrees to start jogging off the field. ALL while Corrente was staring at him the whole time. That's some legitimate top shelf lawyering to suggest Corrente didn't mean to.
 

E5 Yaz

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After considering all the evidence, I've come to the conclusion that Corrente's intent was to get Marsh to pause, so that he could make a grand show of throwing the flag just as Marsh was in the area.
 

kenneycb

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Fast approaching in the Austin Powers steamroller scene sense? If people are citing his age as a reason why he had to panic and hip check an nfl player jogging past him, then he shouldn’t be on the field at all.

Again, the intent inquiry is weird. Why does anyone do anything stupid, especially on a playing field? Why’s Haynesworth stomp that dude or Bertuzzi try to brain that guy with a hockey stick?
People are citing his age because a 70 year old is going to be less agile and clumsier than someone who is less than 70.

Intent matters because people in this thread are literally calling for his job and to never ref a Cassius Marsh game again (shouldn't be too hard regardless...) for something that may have been an awkward accident (as evidenced by 3 pages of film breakdown in this thread). Unless you want to hold the position that all player / ref bumps, whether intentional or not, are cause for termination.
 

Marciano490

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People are citing his age because a 70 year old is going to be less agile and clumsier than someone who is less than 70.

Intent matters because people in this thread are literally calling for his job and to never ref a Cassius Marsh game again (shouldn't be too hard regardless...) for something that may have been an awkward accident (as evidenced by 3 pages of film breakdown in this thread). Unless you want to hold the position that all player / ref bumps, whether intentional or not, are cause for termination.
I meant the intent behind the intent. The action speaks for itself. Why he took the action, I dunno? It’s not a novel. I don’t need to understand why people do dumb shit. We’re a species of weird people and Ed Gein’s and Jeffrey Dahmer’s. People are wack.
 

johnmd20

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People are citing his age because a 70 year old is going to be less agile and clumsier than someone who is less than 70.

Intent matters because people in this thread are literally calling for his job and to never ref a Cassius Marsh game again (shouldn't be too hard regardless...) for something that may have been an awkward accident (as evidenced by 3 pages of film breakdown in this thread). Unless you want to hold the position that all player / ref bumps, whether intentional or not, are cause for termination.
You're acting like this guy's in a wheelchair and uses a stairway elevator because he can't handle steps.

He's an NFL referee who runs up and down a field for 3.5 hours. But all of a sudden, he's a frail, brittle newt?

The reason why hip checks are effective is because it doesn't put the person delivering the hip check at much risk or vulnerability. You get leverage, which the ref definitely got as he crouch stepped into it, and the hip is a big, hard bone.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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We should keep going for all zero of the people whose minds aren't 100 percent made up on the issue.
 

soxhop411

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More from the WaPo
The NFL believes that the taunting call made against Chicago Bears linebacker Cassius Marsh during Monday night’s game in Pittsburgh was justified and it has no plans to modify this season’s strict taunting enforcement, according to multiple people familiar with the league’s views on the matter.

The league did not give credence to Marsh’s accusation that referee Tony Corrente inappropriately bumped into him as Marsh moved past the referee toward the Bears’ sideline following the play, one of those people said.
“The call was the definition of taunting, with the player gesturing toward the sideline and the opponent,” one of the people with knowledge of the NFL’s views said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the league made no official public comment about the propriety of the call.
But the league showed no signs of backing down. The NFL believes that, with taunting as a point of emphasis, on-field officials have the authority to make judgments about what constitutes taunting and players will continue to adjust as the season progresses, one of the people familiar with the league’s views said. All calls made by the officials are subject to a weekly review process.
Marsh was penalized following a third-down sack of Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger in the fourth quarter of the Bears’ 29-27 loss. He moved toward the Steelers’ sideline and looked in that direction before turning and heading toward the Bears’ bench. The taunting call enabled the Steelers to retain possession of the ball rather than punt. They managed a field goal on that drive to increase their lead to 26-20 with less than three minutes remaining.
“I think it’s pretty clear to everybody who saw it that I wasn’t taunting,” Marsh said during a postgame news conference. “I’ve been doing the celebration my whole career. It’s just sad to see stuff like that happen in a close game like that. It’s just rough. I don’t want to say too much because you all know how it is.”
There was physical contact between Corrente and Marsh as Corrente turned his body and reached for his penalty flag while Marsh moved past him en route to the Bears’ bench. Marsh said Monday night that he “got hip-checked by the ref and it’s pretty clear.”

Marsh also said, “If I were to do that to a ref or even touch the ref, you know, we’d get kicked out of the game, possibly suspended and fined. So I just think that that was incredibly inappropriate.”

Asked Tuesday whether the NFL believed that Marsh’s accusation about Corrente initiating physical contact was legitimate, a person with knowledge of the league’s view said: “No.” The NFL did not plan to take any action on it, that person said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/11/09/nfl-taunting-call-bears-steelers/
 

kenneycb

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I meant the intent behind the intent. The action speaks for itself. Why he took the action, I dunno? It’s not a novel. I don’t need to understand why people do dumb shit. We’re a species of weird people and Ed Gein’s and Jeffrey Dahmer’s. People are wack.
I have no idea what intent behind the intent is supposed to mean.
 

NortheasternPJ

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You're acting like this guy's in a wheelchair and uses a stairway elevator because he can't handle steps.

He's an NFL referee who runs up and down a field for 3.5 hours. But all of a sudden, he's a frail, brittle newt?

The reason why hip checks are effective is because it doesn't put the person delivering the hip check at much risk or vulnerability. You get leverage, which the ref definitely got as he crouch stepped into it, and the hip is a big, hard bone.
Well to be fair Corrante today said he was unaware of the contact even occurring so if that’s true he should be put on leave immediately as he’s a danger to himself and others if he’s unable to even know he hip checked a professional linebacker and touched him.
 

Marciano490

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I have no idea what intent behind the intent is supposed to mean.
Intent was to hip check. The intent behind wanting to hip check is shoulder shrug emoji dude. First order and second order volition or something.
 

johnmd20

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Well to be fair Corrante today said he was unaware of the contact even occurring so if that’s true he should be put on leave immediately as he’s a danger to himself and others if he’s unable to even know he hip checked a professional linebacker and touched him.
What's he supposed to say, "Yes, I did do exactly what you clearly saw on the video, I hip checked him and taunted him when I threw the flag, too, for, um, taunting."

This feels like one of those, "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"
 

kenneycb

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You're acting like this guy's in a wheelchair and uses a stairway elevator because he can't handle steps.

He's an NFL referee who runs up and down a field for 3.5 hours. But all of a sudden, he's a frail, brittle newt?

The reason why hip checks are effective is because it doesn't put the person delivering the hip check at much risk or vulnerability. You get leverage, which the ref definitely got as he crouch stepped into it, and the hip is a big, hard bone.
I don’t think he’s remotely any of that, I’m just assuming he’s more prone to getting slightly off balance in sudden movements because he’s been eligible for a Social Security check for several years.
 

johnmd20

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I don’t think he’s remotely any of that, I’m just assuming he’s more prone to getting slightly off balance in sudden movements because he’s been eligible for a Social Security check for several years.
I don't know, man, that seems ageist.
 

kenneycb

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Intent was to hip check. The intent behind wanting to hip check is shoulder shrug emoji dude. First order and second order volition or something.
And I think result was hip check. If intent was to hip check a player I would take issue like others have. Why I’m still arguing, well it’s probably boredom.
 

NortheasternPJ

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What's he supposed to say, "Yes, I did do exactly what you clearly saw on the video, I hip checked him and taunted him when I threw the flag, too, for, um, taunting."

This feels like one of those, "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"
We bumped into each other by accident and it didn’t impact the flag is way better than his fake news he didn’t even know it happened answer. If he doesn’t know it even happened then he’s not fit for the field.
 

Marciano490

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And I think result was hip check. If intent was to hip check a player I would take issue like others have. Why I’m still arguing, well it’s probably boredom.
Well, I think we can all find common ground there :)
 

johnmd20

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We bumped into each other by accident and it didn’t impact the flag is way better than his fake news he didn’t even know it happened answer. If he doesn’t know it even happened then he’s not fit for the field.
Obviously. But that ref certainly knew it happened. It gave him all the more joy to hold up his arm after throwing the flag like he's Dame knocking one down from 35.

The ref wanted to show up the player. And he did, with a flourish. It was beyond weak but certainly not something that should cost him his job. Marsh really is an idiot for running so close to him.
 

McBride11

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How many NFL style athletes wearing pads have been injured by 70 year olds that turn slightly?

The player is initiating contact by jogging towards the stationary ref. "it's unacceptable" is such a ridiculous statement given how grossly you are misinterpreting the actual events.

Have you ever been around people and someone is coming right at you? What do you do? bend and try to pivot to reduce the contact, and for sure to avoid having your legs locked as someone is coming towards you. I mean this is basic human behavior. FIRE THIS MAN!!! HOW DARE HE REACT AS A HUMAN WOULD!!!
Or ya know, step forward when someone is going to walk into you like every other rational human in a crowd, not step back into contact. You step forward to avoid contact.

Corrente was out line. Fired? Maybe a bridge to far, but bumping a player is a no no.

edit - to add, his right hip clearly went from in front of the yard line to behind the yard line and his right leg went back / out. That is a backward step. Marsh was fired up and likely barely paying attention. And the flag, came well after the karate kick and facing the sideline. Literally Marsh turned around and was running to his sideline for a few yards before Corrente grabbed the flag.
 
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joe dokes

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I meant the intent behind the intent. The action speaks for itself. Why he took the action, I dunno? It’s not a novel. I don’t need to understand why people do dumb shit. We’re a species of weird people and Ed Gein’s and Jeffrey Dahmer’s. People are wack.
Ed Gein would make a nice lampshade out of that apostrophe. (Unless you're talking about the band Ed Gein's Car, which is also weird).
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

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Corrente clearly leaned into Marsh. Nobody knows intent, but I'm not sure how you could view the interaction as anything else.
Marsh tries to buzz the tower, and Corrente pivots to protect himself. The contact is initiated by Marsh, who has an entire football field available and decides to sprint directly at the ref.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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Marsh tries to buzz the tower, and Corrente pivots to protect himself. The contact is initiated by Marsh, who has an entire football field available and decides to sprint directly at the ref.
This is where I'm at too. But it could just be because I cannot stand Marsh so this entire thing has been enjoyable to me.
 

lexrageorge

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The defensive holding call seems like the contact was right on the border of 5 or 6 yards. The WR for the Rams did a good job selling it, so I would say it was a closer call than the twitter-ite claims when seen in real time.

The missed DPI is egregious, however.
 

E5 Yaz

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I can’t imagine the shitshow that would happen if this happened in the playoffs or the Super Bowl.
Ask the Saints.

When it happens (because "if" is not an option), there will be screaming and venting and articles written and radio talkers yakking and TV talking heads screaming. There will be calls for more replay and full-time officials and rules changes.

The NFL will make a ton of money, issue a weak statement and turn the page to next year.