NFL Officiating: Zebras gone wild

HomeRunBaker

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I wish the reporter asked him why he hip checked Marsh.
Followed up by asking why didn’t he reach for his flag in between the time of Marsh’s alledged taunting action and prior to him having contact with him.
 

normstalls

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Followed up by asking why didn’t he reach for his flag in between the time of Marsh’s alledged taunting action and prior to him having contact with him.
NFL is a horse shit league. Billion dollar industry still officiated completely arbitrarily.
 

rodderick

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Yesterday was as naked a screw job I can recall in the NFL. There was plenty of other bullshit, and putting an emphasis on a completely subjective infraction was always bound to bring issues, but when staring elicits a 15 yard penalty at a crucial juncture of the game, something has to happen. Refs can't have that type of power. If they want to legislate taunting out of the game, some clear guidelines need to be in place (e.g. an opponent has to be in the vicinity, the player needs to yell, gesture or spin the ball in his direction), otherwise you just hand refs a blank check to affect the outcome of games. Yesterday Corrente just admitedly decided he didn't like the way Marsh looked at the Steelers bench. That's absurd.
 

Van Everyman

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Corrente also completely blew a call taking away a TD from Chicago – both wrongly interpreting the rule and also seeing contact when the guy actually whiffed.

And, he seemed to have taunted Marsh himself – leaning into to Marsh to bump him as he walked back to the huddle and then very dramatically throwing the flag.

In a normal world, he be disciplined for all that. But in the NFL …

Edit: said this before the new thread was made
 
Last edited:

lexrageorge

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Yesterday was as naked a screw job I can recall in the NFL. There was plenty of other bullshit, and putting an emphasis on a completely subjective infraction was always bound to bring issues, but when staring elicits a 15 yard penalty at a crucial juncture of the game, something has to happen. Refs can't have that type of power. If they want to legislate taunting out of the game, some clear guidelines need to be in place (e.g. an opponent has to be in the vicinity, the player needs to yell, gesture or spin the ball in his direction), otherwise you just hand refs a blank check to affect the outcome of games. Yesterday Corrente just admitedly decided he didn't like the way Marsh looked at the Steelers bench. That's absurd.
Of the top 10 things to be worried about in the NFL, taunting has to be ranked #947.
 

johnmd20

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Of the top 10 things to be worried about in the NFL, taunting has to be ranked #947.
I know for me, I don't care about taunting. But these taunting calls make me nuts. They are awful.

The NFL fixed a problem they didn't have. And, as a result, they created a problem.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Corrente also completely blew a call taking away a TD from Chicago – both wrongly interpreting the rule and also seeing contact when the guy actually whiffed.

And, he seemed to have taunted Marsh himself – leaning into to Marsh to bump him as he walked back to the huddle and then very dramatically throwing the flag.

In a normal world, he be disciplined for all that. But in the NFL …
The penalty that negated the Bears TD was laughable. How can there be a penalty for a chop block when there was no block? Head hurts.
 

IdiotKicker

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Corrente shouldn’t do another game all year. He probably won’t see any change in schedule since I don’t think there are enough backup crews to make that work without disrupting things, but he honesty just looks like an asshole and likely has no credibility amongst players from here on out.
 

rodderick

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Of the top 10 things to be worried about in the NFL, taunting has to be ranked #947.
Sure. Honestly, I not only don't mind taunting, I kind of enjoy it as a completely natural part of competitive sports. But if these old farts are apalled at these horrific actions of spinning balls and staring at benches, they should at least try to limit the discretion of officials as much as possible.

I'm taking this to the absurd, but this shit is like taking homers off the board, or placing the batter on second base, because he flipped his bat or jogged around first while staring at the pitcher. So fucking stupid that this affects the outcomes of games weekly.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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The point of emphasis stuff is always dreadful, every year.

“There has been too much X, so we’re going to look extra hard for it!” All arbitrarily decided by aggrieved coaches and owners, leading to refs being hyperaware, overcalling the emphasis, and ultimately having the league slink back into a corner when the point of emphasis makes them look stupid in a big primetime spot.

Taunting is a particularly bad one because it is entirely subjective and too easy for a hypersensitive and too-old ref to scream fire when there’s no smoke.

At this point coaches must be drilling into everyone’s head to just go celebrate with your teammates, no matter what, and pray nobody thinks you looked the wrong way.
 

Van Everyman

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Just wait until there is some disputed catch and the league revisits the rule for the 80,000th time, mid-season, and writes 17,000 breathless words redefining what constitutes a catch.
 

j44thor

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Surprised no mention of the egregious RTP calls that were both called and missed on each side. CHI got called for one when the DL pushed the OL into Ben resulting in a first down on I believe a 3rd and long and PIT got away with a blatant RTP on a 3rd and goal play that fell incomplete.
 

DJnVa

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15 yard penalties that negate scoring plays should be reviewable.

Or they just need to do their job better.
 

glennhoffmania

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The point of emphasis stuff is always dreadful, every year.

“There has been too much X, so we’re going to look extra hard for it!” All arbitrarily decided by aggrieved coaches and owners, leading to refs being hyperaware, overcalling the emphasis, and ultimately having the league slink back into a corner when the point of emphasis makes them look stupid in a big primetime spot.

Taunting is a particularly bad one because it is entirely subjective and too easy for a hypersensitive and too-old ref to scream fire when there’s no smoke.

At this point coaches must be drilling into everyone’s head to just go celebrate with your teammates, no matter what, and pray nobody thinks you looked the wrong way.
Yeah. The rules are the rules but to arbitrarily decide which rules should be emphasized in any give year is dumb. If that wasn't taunting last year it shouldn't be this year (and it shouldn't, because he didn't do anything). What a horrible call and a disgrace to the league. Every week I start to believe more and more that the outcome of games isn't entirely above board.
 

Mystic Merlin

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PIT had 280 total yards on 4.2 yards per play, with Chicago gaining over 400 on 7.1 yards per play. PIT was plus one in turnover margin.

Not usually a stat like you see lead to PIT winning. I can’t figure out what the difference in the game was!!
 

rodderick

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PIT had 280 total yards on 4.2 yards per play, with Chicago gaining over 400 on 7.1 yards per play. PIT was plus one in turnover margin.

Not usually a stat like you see lead to PIT winning. I can’t figure out what the difference in the game was!!
I thought the Saints-Bucs game was bad in the officiating front last week, and I looked it up and Tampa had 11 penalties called for 99 yards while NO had 2 called for 10 yards. Tampa 7.3 yards per play, zero first downs by penalty, NO 5.0 yards per play, 6 first downs by penalty. But that game didn't have calls as egregious as the taunting and low block in yesterday's game.
 

Harry Hooper

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PIT had 280 total yards on 4.2 yards per play, with Chicago gaining over 400 on 7.1 yards per play. PIT was plus one in turnover margin.

Not usually a stat like you see lead to PIT winning. I can’t figure out what the difference in the game was!!
The stat they threw up on the screen late in the game that showed Najee Harris was averaging only 3.0 yards/carry went unmentioned by the ESPN crew.
 

ragnarok725

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Just in case anyone is missing context...

View: https://twitter.com/WillBrinson/status/1457923360545988613?s=20


Q:There appears to also have been some contact between you and the player in question. Did that contribute to the penalty being called?
A:No, not at all. I didn't judge that as anything that I dealt with.

Q: The video showed that you had brief contact with the player and then you threw the flag. So that had nothing to do with the penalty being called?
A: That had nothing to do with it. It was the taunting aspect.

I don't understand how you can watch that clip and not believe Corrente is just straight up gaslighting here. He's 100% full of shit.
 

BigJimEd

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To be fair, is there any major US sports league where this isn’t the case?
Yes. I think the NFL is widely inconsistent and several steps below the other sports. And several steps below the top level of the NCAA.
 

IdiotKicker

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Yes. I think the NFL is widely inconsistent and several steps below the other sports. And several steps below the top level of the NCAA.
I’m not sure. The Bruins had goals scored against them in 2019 after egregious non-calls. We saw a mess of a strike zone in a key ALCS game. NBA officiating is notoriously iffy with a number of refs. I don’t think the NFL has a monopoly on shitty officiating or shitty rules.
 

BigJimEd

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I'm not saying other pro sports are great. Just not as bad as NFL. I don't see nearly the inconsistency and overall poor officiating at the NCAA level. Why does the NFL have worse officiating than "amateurs"?

I think the NHL does a decent job. Sure, I was likely ranting about those non-calls but still those seem to be outliers compared to the NFL. I don't watch enough of the NBA to speak there although I am well aware of the rep for star treatment. I do think NBA is tougher to officiate.

MLB does have a strike zone issue particularly with a couple umps. Also have some umps that have power trips. Fortunately, one is now gone. I do think MLB needs to automate the strike zone. Although I'm not sure there is anything comparable to calling balls/strikes in the NFL.

NFL refs do generally have thick skin. I'll give them that. They take a lot of heat from coaches.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'm not saying other pro sports are great. Just not as bad as NFL. I don't see nearly the inconsistency and overall poor officiating at the NCAA level. Why does the NFL have worse officiating than "amateurs"?

I think the NHL does a decent job. Sure, I was likely ranting about those non-calls but still those seem to be outliers compared to the NFL. I don't watch enough of the NBA to speak there although I am well aware of the rep for star treatment. I do think NBA is tougher to officiate.

MLB does have a strike zone issue particularly with a couple umps. Also have some umps that have power trips. Fortunately, one is now gone. I do think MLB needs to automate the strike zone. Although I'm not sure there is anything comparable to calling balls/strikes in the NFL.

NFL refs do generally have thick skin. I'll give them that. They take a lot of heat from coaches.
NCAA refs are really really bad, I think maybe you just aren't as invested?
 

Bergs

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I’m not sure. The Bruins had goals scored against them in 2019 after egregious non-calls. We saw a mess of a strike zone in a key ALCS game. NBA officiating is notoriously iffy with a number of refs. I don’t think the NFL has a monopoly on shitty officiating or shitty rules.
Agreed.
 

Cotillion

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Cassius Marsh HORRIBLE Taunting Call vs. Steelers - YouTube

So up to now I have only seen the play right before Marsh gets hipchecked by the Ref... that stare down that happens literally hundreds of times every weekend was the "taunt" or the bicycle kick move? How is that worthy of 15 yards? How did it take Corrente that long to decide to throw the flag for the taunt? The sequence makes no sense at all... it comes across as Corrente going "man I want to call the Bears for something... what can I come up with?"
 

tims4wins

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Just in case anyone is missing context...

View: https://twitter.com/WillBrinson/status/1457923360545988613?s=20


Q:There appears to also have been some contact between you and the player in question. Did that contribute to the penalty being called?
A:No, not at all. I didn't judge that as anything that I dealt with.

Q: The video showed that you had brief contact with the player and then you threw the flag. So that had nothing to do with the penalty being called?
A: That had nothing to do with it. It was the taunting aspect.

I don't understand how you can watch that clip and not believe Corrente is just straight up gaslighting here. He's 100% full of shit.
In fairness, it looked like he was reaching for the flag prior to the bump
 

glennhoffmania

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To be fair, is there any major US sports league where this isn’t the case?
That's true, but the NFL seems to be the only league where different issues are emphasized every year even though the rules didn't change, and players have to constantly adjust based on these new directives. Taunting was always a penalty. Would last night's incident ever be a penalty in prior years?
 

soxhop411

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That's true, but the NFL seems to be the only league where different issues are emphasized every year even though the rules didn't change, and players have to constantly adjust based on these new directives. Taunting was always a penalty. Would last night's incident ever be a penalty in prior years?
As was excessive celebration at one point no? Hence the no fun league jokes. They fixed that a few years ago. But this seems just be another version of the excessive celebration shitshow from back then.
 

EdRalphRomero

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Man I have no dog in that fight but it sure looks like he was trying to initiate contact with the player to justify throwing the flag. Maybe he realized it wasn't going to look good and said it was for the stare instead of the contact. Either way, Corrente should 100% not be an official in any NFL games because he clearly was looking to initiate physical contact with that player. He moved into him. There is no justification for that.
 

rodderick

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The thing with the NFL is that I'd argue football is the easiest sport to officiate. There's an interruption after every play, there is subjectivity involved with some calls, but a lot of them are procedural and objective, you have a ton of refs on the field, you can simply check the review of scoring plays and turnovers automatically. There's really no excuse for them to suck, as opposed to, say, soccer/basketball refs, who have to make a ton of judgement calls over the course of a flowing game with little natural stoppages.
 

IdiotKicker

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That's true, but the NFL seems to be the only league where different issues are emphasized every year even though the rules didn't change, and players have to constantly adjust based on these new directives. Taunting was always a penalty. Would last night's incident ever be a penalty in prior years?
I dunno. The NHL has gone through numerous offsides iterations in recent years, they’ve changed icing, moved the blue lines, changed the shape of the crease. The NBA did the whole James-Harden rule thing this year, they did the shot clock reset to 14 seconds after a miss a few years back. All these games are in flux with pretty meaningful changes, and they all have some pretty egregious issues with consistency of officiating and making shitty decisions on rule enforcement.
 

glennhoffmania

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I dunno. The NHL has gone through numerous offsides iterations in recent years, they’ve changed icing, moved the blue lines, changed the shape of the crease. The NBA did the whole James-Harden rule thing this year, they did the shot clock reset to 14 seconds after a miss a few years back. All these games are in flux with pretty meaningful changes, and they all have some pretty egregious issues with consistency of officiating and making shitty decisions on rule enforcement.
I don't follow the NHL much so I'll defer to you. But in general those seem to be rule changes, not interpretation changes. If the NFL made a new rule this year that said if you stare at the opposing sideline after making a tackle it's a personal foul then last night would make sense (even if the rule would be really stupid). That's not the case here. Taunting has always been a penalty and what Marsh did last night has never been called taunting before. That's the issue I have.
 

Cotillion

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NHL has decided to do an emphasis on crosschecking this year.

i.e. hey start calling a lot more crosschecking penalties and not just when a guy breaks his stick on the other guys ribs (exagerrated a bit)
 

Captaincoop

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Man I have no dog in that fight but it sure looks like he was trying to initiate contact with the player to justify throwing the flag. Maybe he realized it wasn't going to look good and said it was for the stare instead of the contact. Either way, Corrente should 100% not be an official in any NFL games because he clearly was looking to initiate physical contact with that player. He moved into him. There is no justification for that.
Or he was having trouble pulling the flag out of his pocket and bumped into the player while trying to do that.
 

Phil Plantier

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I think NFL officiating overall is better this year: New York calls in to reverse egregious errors now, which I think is a big improvement.

However, those were two brutal calls against the same team in a nationally televised game (not counting the roughing the passer penalty that was missed). Hopefully this will cause a retrenchment about these overofficious taunting calls.

The fact that taunting is a disproportionate 15 yard penalty makes it even worse.
 

Euclis20

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I don't follow the NHL much so I'll defer to you. But in general those seem to be rule changes, not interpretation changes. If the NFL made a new rule this year that said if you stare at the opposing sideline after making a tackle it's a personal foul then last night would make sense (even if the rule would be really stupid). That's not the case here. Taunting has always been a penalty and what Marsh did last night has never been called taunting before. That's the issue I have.
Yeah, point of emphasis or no, that was something new. Now you can't look at the opposing bench, from a hundred feet away, without saying anything? We've completely lost the point here.
 

lexrageorge

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There will always be some subjectivity in deciding whether to call a penalty or foul on a play in any of the 4 major sports where contact is a norm (NBA, NFL, NHL, and futbol). Nearly every play in the NFL involves something that could be considered offensive holding when reading the rule strictly. Nearly every move to the basket or battle for a rebound involves some sort of contact. The line between a check and interference or cross-check can be very blurry. An occasional miss in any of those situations is understandable and is expected.

The decision whether to T up a player in the NBA, or to give a hockey player an extra 2 or 10 for conduct, can also be subjective.

What's egregious is that the official here made a move to initiate contact with the player, even if he was already reaching for the flag. Even with the taunting emphasis, the official needs to have enough judgment to determine that the "taunting" wasn't meaningful and did not cross a line.
 

johnmd20

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The thing with the NFL is that I'd argue football is the easiest sport to officiate. There's an interruption after every play, there is subjectivity involved with some calls, but a lot of them are procedural and objective, you have a ton of refs on the field, you can simply check the review of scoring plays and turnovers automatically. There's really no excuse for them to suck, as opposed to, say, soccer/basketball refs, who have to make a ton of judgement calls over the course of a flowing game with little natural stoppages.
Baseball is, by far, the easiest. The game is static. NHL is not that tough, too. Refs miss calls or may not make calls that you want, but it's not nearly as subjective as hoops or football.

NBA is probably the toughest with the NFL slightly below that.
 

BigJimEd

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NCAA refs are really really bad, I think maybe you just aren't as invested?
I don't watch as much as many here probably do but I average about 2-3 NCAA games per week. I don't see nearly the same ineptness and inconsistency that I do in the NFL. I watch usually no more than 2 NFL games these days and, honestly, poor officiating is one of the reasons I watch less than a few seasons ago. This isn't something new for me. This season, I'll watch the Pats and maybe one other game.


Baseball is, by far, the easiest. The game is static. NHL is not that tough, too. Refs miss calls or may not make calls that you want, but it's not nearly as subjective as hoops or football.

NBA is probably the toughest with the NFL slightly below that.
I don't know. I agree with @rodderick, NFL is the easiest in my mind.

Baseball is different and I don't think balls/strikes is as easy as many think. I think the NHL and constant action and movement is harder to officiate.
 

scott bankheadcase

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The thing I always try an remind myself with refs in all the sports: It's really, really hard. Ever try to ref even an easy amateur contest? It's super hard (knowing the rules is easy but judging contact and things like that in real time). So, I attempt to give the benefit of the doubt, because it's an impossible ask for these guys to be able to judge every roughing the passer, pass interference, holding ect. in real time with crazy fast athletes.

Which is why it's all the more infuriating that the NFL is attempting to have these guys also call ridiculous non-game stuff like taunting. It's a complete subjective, non-game thing and the job is hard enough already. And then to have those type of penalties be so punitive as to change games? The NFL has an issue on its hands with this.
 

HomeRunBaker

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That was the worst call of the game. Just inexcusable.
I’ve never been one of those “the games are fixed” guys……but I’m also not naive enough to believe that there are officials out there with significant wagers on games. As gambling becomes more of the American culture this is going to be a scandal that slips through the underground cracks at some point. I would not be surprised one hit to find out this game wasn’t compromised. There were a couple blatant non-RTP calls on Fields, the chop block that wasn’t a block, the taunting penalty on a critical 4th down stop, and I wasn’t watching closely but were all of those offsides penalties on the Bears legits?
 

Van Everyman

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I think NFL officiating overall is better this year: New York calls in to reverse egregious errors now, which I think is a big improvement.
Notwithstanding last night's disaster, I agree. Plus, you see these guys huddling to discuss calls a lot more, which is the right thing to do (and may be a little theater to delay while NY calls in on their headset).

The thing with the NFL is that I'd argue football is the easiest sport to officiate. There's an interruption after every play, there is subjectivity involved with some calls, but a lot of them are procedural and objective, you have a ton of refs on the field, you can simply check the review of scoring plays and turnovers automatically. There's really no excuse for them to suck, as opposed to, say, soccer/basketball refs, who have to make a ton of judgement calls over the course of a flowing game with little natural stoppages.
Corrente was being an asshole last night -- but increasingly, these refs are being totally failed by the league:

"Make taunting a point of emphasis."
"Go easier on offensive holding."
"Don't blow the whistle after the fumble (but get the call right!)."
"Protect the players heads and knees."
"Read our latest masters dissertation on what constitutes a catch."

I don't think the NFL referees are a particularly impressive bunch -- but this is a ton of shit to balance, consider and pull off with millions of mouth breathing fans watching. The problem, as always, is that the league has no integrity. Sure, MLB has a lot of problems too. And the NBA under Stern was a shitshow in that regard. But those leagues, by and large, are trying to get it right. The NFL, by contrast, lets its owners' individual and collective agendas pollute the game. Mara hates Kraft/Harbaugh and Colts hate BB/, hence Deflategate. Jerry and Snyder have each others backs on salary cap fuckery, so the league goes easy on both of them. Polian is pissed Ty Law owns Marvin Harrison's soul, let's make it impossible for DBs to be physical with receivers. Tomlin is mad his team's TE lost a game-winning TD in prime time against the Pats, we'll change the catch rules IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SUPER BOWL, And of course, the league in general is in a perpetual state of existential crisis, hence they do anything and everything for PR reasons -- including all the player safety puffery, about 50%-75% of which is for show (ie, fans like kickoffs, so we'll keep them even tho people still routinely get lit up).

For all the problems I have with MLB, the NBA and NHL, I don't think they have even close to the integrity problems the NFL does. And at the end of the day, the people enforcing the integrity of the game are refs. So there you go.