Analysis of Celtics Games, '21-'22 Season

Cesar Crespo

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DS is shooting at 37.5%, GW at 47.6% (and dropping!); and JRich at 36.8%.

The issue to me is that the Cs need shooters with more gravity. I'm not sure how you measure that but the fact that CHI could play 5 guys on one floor is an indication to me that the Cs don't have enough of it.

Which is I guess where Nesmith comes in.
Yeah. Evan Fournier has his flaws but sometimes you have to sacrifice defense for offense. Given how they are playing defense, I'm not sure they'd be sacrificing much either.

Evan is just an example. There are too many .330-.350 shooters on this team. The league EFG this year is .515 atm. So one would have to hit 34.3% of their 3s to be "productive/average."

Letting Smart, DS, JRich get theirs from 3 is a good defensive strategy. Chances are, they are going to do be average at best, whereas the Jays will usually kill you from 3.
 

Cellar-Door

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DS is shooting at 37.5%, GW at 47.6% (and dropping!); and JRich at 36.8%.

The issue to me is that the Cs need shooters with more gravity. I'm not sure how you measure that but the fact that CHI could play 5 guys on one floor is an indication to me that the Cs don't have enough of it.

Which is I guess where Nesmith comes in.
I don't think Nesmith has any gravity. I really doubt a coach is having his guys play closer to a guy with a career 34% from 3 who barely cracks an NBA rotation over the guys out there. If Pritchard weren't a mess with the mask, he might be a gravity guy. Right now the Celtics have a bunch of "he hits enough 3s not to be a burden" guys (Richardson, Schroder, Romeo?, Al) but not any guys outside Brown/Tatum who teams worry about keeping from getting shots.
 

benhogan

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Salaries don't quite match, particularly after Huerter signed his extension...and Collins can't be traded until his six-month period is up anyway. But we might be in the ballpark here. As an alternative, what about Collins/Reddish?
I imagine teams will start circling Boston if the Celtic's keep this up. It does feel like Brown is destined to play in Atlanta

Brad can't do much until after the trade deadline/6-mth (January-ish)
 

Cesar Crespo

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I like John Collins but why do people think Tatum/Collins would be a better pairing than Tatum/Brown? I don't buy that. They'd still be missing a playmaker.
 

Cellar-Door

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I like John Collins but why do people think Tatum/Collins would be a better pairing than Tatum/Brown? I don't buy that. They'd still be missing a playmaker.
yeah, I don't get the idea of trading Brown in general (he's been better than Tatum this year), but if you do, it needs to be for a Lillard type, or something like that, a lights out shooter and playmaker, this team already lacks shooting and guys who can create off the dribble. Brown doesn't create for others, but he shoots well and creates his own shots, any player replacing him needs to shoot 3s and create for himself minimum, but really needs to create for others to actually upgrade the roster.
 

benhogan

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DS is shooting at 37.5%, GW at 47.6% (and dropping!); and JRich at 36.8%.

The issue to me is that the Cs need shooters with more gravity. I'm not sure how you measure that but the fact that CHI could play 5 guys on one floor is an indication to me that the Cs don't have enough of it.

Which is I guess where Nesmith comes in.
This team desperately needs 3-pt shooting. Nesmith, Bane, Bey were considered the 3 best shooters 11mths ago when they were drafted. Unless Danny & Co got this completely wrong they need to start giving Aaron minutes. Playing these bad shooters in front of him isn't making them a top 8 team

#Free Nesmith

Nobody wants to trade Jaylen Brown, @Conigliaro's Potential was asking about general parameters/value around him
 

Cellar-Door

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This team desperately needs 3-pt shooting. Nesmith, Bane, Bey were considered the 3 best shooters 11mths ago when they were drafted. Unless Danny & Co got this completely wrong they need to start giving Aaron minutes. Playing these bad shooters in front of him isn't making them a top 8 team

#Free Nesmith

Nobody wants to trade Jaylen Brown, @Conigliaro's Potential was asking about general parameters/value around him
I agree they need 3pt shooting (though I think Richardson looks like he's returning to form), but.... they also need guys who can defend, the offense is around league average, the D is abysmal.
What they really need is to turn Marcus' spot in the rotation into a guy who can shoot, but that isn't happening until January at the earliest (and given how Brad loves Marcus, maybe never). Marcus is the biggest issue, because, he's not creating for others or shooting even decently. You can't dump Schroder, he's the only guy creating shots for others, Richardson is giving you everything you'd hope for out of Nesmith honestly, Romeo is shooting well, Grant... yeah, Grant's shooting is an issue, he's a guy who could lose time, but not to Nesmith because Grant is playing as a big.
 

Jimbodandy

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I don't think Nesmith has any gravity. I really doubt a coach is having his guys play closer to a guy with a career 34% from 3 who barely cracks an NBA rotation over the guys out there. If Pritchard weren't a mess with the mask, he might be a gravity guy. Right now the Celtics have a bunch of "he hits enough 3s not to be a burden" guys (Richardson, Schroder, Romeo?, Al) but not any guys outside Brown/Tatum who teams worry about keeping from getting shots.
If the mask is slowing Pritchard down, that at least gives us something to look forward to.
 

ManicCompression

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This team desperately needs 3-pt shooting. Nesmith, Bane, Bey were considered the 3 best shooters 11mths ago when they were drafted. Unless Danny & Co got this completely wrong they need to start giving Aaron minutes. Playing these bad shooters in front of him isn't making them a top 8 team
God, this team with Bey and Bane instead of Nesmith and Pritchard would be much more dynamic. What a nightmare draft.
 

Cellar-Door

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God, this team with Bey and Bane instead of Nesmith and Pritchard would be much more dynamic. What a nightmare draft.
Is it? They could just as easily have Josh Green and Udoka Azubike. The Celtics appear to have gotten at least 1 rotation guy, you'll live with that. (also, those guys might not be what they have been if they were here).
 

Auger34

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Is it? They could just as easily have Josh Green and Udoka Azubike. The Celtics appear to have gotten at least 1 rotation guy, you'll live with that. (also, those guys might not be what they have been if they were here).
What you have in parentheses nails it.
How do people know that these guys would be performing the same or getting any playing time here?
Bey was handed minutes and a rotation role from the jump basically because the Pistons suck. Bane went to a good team but with a coach much more willing to play young players than both Brad and (especially) Ime have shown.
 

Cellar-Door

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What you have in parentheses nails it.
How do people know that these guys would be performing the same or getting any playing time here?
Bey was handed minutes and a rotation role from the jump basically because the Pistons suck. Bane went to a good team but with a coach much more willing to play young players than both Brad and (especially) Ime have shown.
beyond that, one of the best ways to get young guys to hit 3s is to get them good shots created by good playmakers, and both DET and MEM have much more efficient assist creators than the Celtics did last year (or this year).
 

ManicCompression

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Is it? They could just as easily have Josh Green and Udoka Azubike. The Celtics appear to have gotten at least 1 rotation guy, you'll live with that. (also, those guys might not be what they have been if they were here).
Not really - I don't remember anyone clamoring for either of those guys, but most of the folks on this board were higher on Bey and Bane than Nesmith and Pritchard, respectively. It's not like Bey and Bane were mysterious upside guys that you needed a magical scouting touch to evaluate - they were NBA ready coming out of college and they have higher ceilings than their counterparts IMO because of their size.

I know it's not really useful to linger on the past, but BH's post just reminded me how much of an inflection point that was because it was the Cs last real chance to infuse young talent into a fairly baked team and they ended up with a small-for-a-point-guard guy in PP who can shoot and not really do much else.

And regarding situation, sure, we don't know Bey and Bane would be as good, but we do know that we lack size and reliable shooting at the wing past the Jays, and it's not like that hasn't been the case for a few seasons. Having larger and better shooters would've been a good solution to that.

PS - I might be missing someone, but who on the Pistons is an efficient assist creator? Hayes, Jackson, Grant? Rose was traded... Saben Lee? I'm looking at the roster and I don't see how it's markedly better than the Celtics, even last year
 

Cellar-Door

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Not really - I don't remember anyone clamoring for either of those guys, but most of the folks on this board were higher on Bey and Bane than Nesmith and Pritchard, respectively. It's not like Bey and Bane were mysterious upside guys that you needed a magical scouting touch to evaluate - they were NBA ready coming out of college and they have higher ceilings than their counterparts IMO because of their size.

I know it's not really useful to linger on the past, but BH's post just reminded me how much of an inflection point that was because it was the Cs last real chance to infuse young talent into a fairly baked team and they ended up with a small-for-a-point-guard guy in PP who can shoot and not really do much else.

And regarding situation, sure, we don't know Bey and Bane would be as good, but we do know that we lack size and reliable shooting at the wing past the Jays, and it's not like that hasn't been the case for a few seasons. Having larger and better shooters would've been a good solution to that.

PS - I might be missing someone, but who on the Pistons is an efficient assist creator? Hayes, Jackson, Grant? Rose was traded... Saben Lee? I'm looking at the roster and I don't see how it's markedly better than the Celtics, even last year
I think comparing who people on this board were clamoring for does little, especially considering we know who NBA teams actually took.

Last year's Pistons had 3 guys over 30% AST% (Joseph, Lee, Rose) 2 more over 28.5% (Hayes, Smith) and another over 25% (Wright)... the Celtics had 1 guy over 25% (Tremont Waters).
This year the Pistons don't have as many... and Bey is shooting 29% from 3 down from 38%.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Not really - I don't remember anyone clamoring for either of those guys, but most of the folks on this board were higher on Bey and Bane than Nesmith and Pritchard, respectively. It's not like Bey and Bane were mysterious upside guys that you needed a magical scouting touch to evaluate - they were NBA ready coming out of college and they have higher ceilings than their counterparts IMO because of their size.

I know it's not really useful to linger on the past, but BH's post just reminded me how much of an inflection point that was because it was the Cs last real chance to infuse young talent into a fairly baked team and they ended up with a small-for-a-point-guard guy in PP who can shoot and not really do much else.

And regarding situation, sure, we don't know Bey and Bane would be as good, but we do know that we lack size and reliable shooting at the wing past the Jays, and it's not like that hasn't been the case for a few seasons. Having larger and better shooters would've been a good solution to that.

PS - I might be missing someone, but who on the Pistons is an efficient assist creator? Hayes, Jackson, Grant? Rose was traded... Saben Lee? I'm looking at the roster and I don't see how it's markedly better than the Celtics, even last year
I dunno, they might have a really good chance to add some talent in the draft after this year.

*ducks*
 

HomeRunBaker

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beyond that, one of the best ways to get young guys to hit 3s is to get them good shots created by good playmakers, and both DET and MEM have much more efficient assist creators than the Celtics did last year (or this year).
Wish we could bottom up what Indiana is doing to get Duarte going. He’s been nothing short of fantastic to begin his career.
 

nighthob

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Is it? They could just as easily have Josh Green and Udoka Azubike. The Celtics appear to have gotten at least 1 rotation guy, you'll live with that. (also, those guys might not be what they have been if they were here).
Pritchard might one day be a good backup PG. Right now he’s a guy that shouldn’t be getting playoff minutes. I wasn’t thrilled with the Nesmith pick at the time (although I do think that he’ll turn into a rotation guy eventually). I really disliked the Pritchard pick, though, and still do.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Well.

The Celtics evidently held a players only meeting that did not go well.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/11/3/22762566/woj-boston-celtics-players-only-meeting-orlando-ime-udoka-marcus-smart-jaylen-brown-jayson-tatum

According to ESPN Senior NBA Insider Adrian Wojnarowski, members of the Celtics — specifically Marcus Smart, Jayson Tatum, and Jaylen Brown — discussed a myriad of topics related to the team’s early-season performance and chemistry.

The meeting focused primarily on the Celtics' collapse against the Chicago Bulls on Monday, a game in which they blew a 19-point lead and allowed 128 points in regulation, as well as Smart’s comments following that game.
according to Wojnarowski, the meeting was “emotional at times,” and “in the end, perhaps not a terribly productive meeting. Maybe not even beneficial.”

He continued: “These are issues with this team and this group that have been going on for a while. They changed the president in Boston. They changed the head coach. These issues remain. Now at 2-5 and playing the Magic tonight… this is a situation that [head coach Ime Udoka] has to address and help this team work through. It haunted [Brad Stevens’] regime, especially near the end, last season.”
But the game did go well! Not so much the first half, when the team looked out of sorts and briefly saw the Magic jump out to an 8 point lead courtesy of missed defensive assignments. But they closed out the half with a 5-0 run and followed that with a 31-10 third quarter to, maybe not put the game away, but at least jump out to a bigger lead than the one they blew in Chicago.

Jaylen continues to look on fire (led team with 28 on 10-17 shooting anf 5-7 from three) while Jayson continues to not be able to throw it in the ocean (14 on 4-16 shooting, 1-6 from three). In the mid 4th, Magic cut the lead down to 14, helped by Tatum bricking 2 free throws (he was 5-8 from the line on the night).

Every starter except Smart got double figures, and Smart would have if he didn't also brick 2 free throws late.

Williams had a nice game - 14 points on 6-8 shooting. Brown and Smart often finding him for dunks. At one point Brown had a Larry Bird type of past where he threw it back over his shoulder.

I called for Ime to try not splitting Tatum and Brown as much, instead trying to buld a bench unit around former Hawks Schoder and Al. He tried this for the end of the first quarter and not much happened. He also gave Pritchard an extended look in the second quarter, but Pritchard did not do much of anything.

The whole first half the team looked out of sorts. Marcus was in pass mode (only took 8 shots all game) and he was fired quick passes to Tatum and Brown that each of them.

The end of the first half and into the third quarer is where they broke the game open, opening the quarter with an 11-0 run. Midway through, Jaylen picked up foul number 4 and Ime sat him and Tatum for an extened stretch. This time, a lineup of Schroder-Smart-Richardson-Langford-Al worked great, continued to add to the lead.

Al was the best Celtic in the game after Jaylen. Didn't shoot well (12 points on 3 of 9, 2-5 from three) but he led the team in rebounds (12), assists (7), and blocks (3). During the third quarter he rounded, blocked shots, hit a three, brought the ball up on the break. Maybe we found something here with Horford leading a bench lineup. But maybe that is more of an Orlando-specific thing. Scal later mentioned that Orlando had been playing a zone and Al has been picking the zone apart. In the 4th, when Rob came in for Al, the Celtics struggled on offense. At the same time, Orlando scored only 10 in the whole quarter, so this was a lockdown defensive unit.

Grant and Pritchard played in the first half, but Grant did not get in again and Pritchard did not come back until garbage time.

In terms of minutes, they were a touch lower than they have been recently but lower still would have been better: Tatum 34, Smart 33, Brown 32, Rob 30, Al 28, Schroder 26, everyone else under 20.

~2 minutes of garbage time. Fernando came in, passed the ball out to Nesmith for his first 3 points of the year, and then almost immediately got hit with a tech, then an offensive foul on the Ce's next trip down. Then another foul.
 

Jimbodandy

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The defense was stifling for large stretches of the game, not just a few possessions. And while it was Orlando, they're quick off the dribble and bouncy on offense. Half ass defense against them, and guys like Anthony and Hampton will just walk to the rim every time. All good shit.

On offense, they're still kind of lost. But we saw signs that guys were looking for each other pretty hard. After a contentious meeting, I see that as a good omen at least.
 

128

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So the Heat will be well-rested and playing at home tomorrow nite against a Boston team that's playing on the road for the second straight nite.

Seems promising for the C's.
 
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RorschachsMask

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The magic didn’t play well at all, but I thought the Celts defensive compete level was really high, across the board.

Now let’s see if they can carry it over for more than a game.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Apparently, the meeting was just a 30 minute period before a scheduled team dinner, not a prescheduled anything.

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2021/11/03/game-report-celtics-92-orlando-79-win-is-a-win-but-drama-isnt-dead

“Yeah, it wasn’t really a players-only meeting. We had a team dinner scheduled way before anything happened,” Ime Udoka said. “We gave the players their time before the coaching staff and everybody else came down. So they had about 30 minutes on their own, but it wasn’t anything scheduled. It wasn’t anything scheduled by them.”

Horford added that it was “a gathering, team dinner, nice to break bread together, hang out. Most importantly talked about making sure we come out here and have a good outing tonight.”

Some will argue that’s semantics, some will say that’s different. Whatever it is, discussions were had.
Brown's comments afterward make clear this isn't settled:
“Obviously in the midst of trying to win games, it's something that we probably didn’t need,” Jaylen Brown said of the Marcus Smart comments that started this whole thing. “But we all communicate and talk to each other. So we’re always trying to find ways to win and I’m open to any and everything when guys bring it to me, coaching staff.”

When Brown was asked if it was easier to have conversations with guys who have been with him his whole career, he said "yes and no. Yeah, we definitely have spent a lot of time with each other, which makes it good to be able to talk to somebody but also it's a lot of ups and downs that you go through that we're family and things like that. I think we have healthy conversations moving forward. Like I said, the energy is just focusing on winning, that's it."
Karalis overall take:
The key to getting past something like this is (a) communication, which is apparently happening, (b) reconciliation, which may or may not be happening, and (c) winning, which happened tonight but might not happen again for a little while if Boston isn’t careful.
Karalis noted in a separate column that the Celtics are wasting some of Al's best basketball with their drama:

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2021/11/04/karalis-silly-drama-causing-celtics-waste-horford-best-basketball

Horford spent time in the middle of an Orlando zone defense, prime real estate for destroying it, and picked it apart. When the Celtics needed to push the ball in transition, Horford grabbed the ball and initiated the offense, playing point-center, dishing a team-high seven assists, and putting the young Magic in their place.

The Celtics have, frankly, wasted this golden stretch of Horford’s best basketball since, well, he was with the Celtics. As Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, and Marcus Smart fight over who has shotgun, Horford’s been driving the bus defensively. He leads the NBA in blocked shots, boasting a block rate currently twice his previous career-high. According to Cleaning The Glass, his defensive rebounding percentage is nearly 7% higher than his previous career-high -- which came during his rookie year.

“He's been blocking shots all year,” Udoka said. “He's been doing it on both ends. We're asking him to do a lot guarding perimeter guys and also be one of our best help team defenders and he's done that.”
 

lovegtm

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Grant didn't shoot. He rotated the ball to DS, who missed.


Caruso went to GW, who moved the ball. DS was wiiiiiiiiiide open and bricked it. Here's the play https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?GameEventID=504&GameID=0022100098&Season=2021-22&flag=1&title=MISS Schroder 29' 3PT Jump Shot&sct=plot

Lots of standing around on that play.

edit: no way is that a "29 foot shot" by DS.
The Celtics would take this possession all season long. The problem, dating back to last year, is the incredibly inconsistent defensive execution and effort. It's getting boring to talk about, because there's not much more to it than that.
 

lovegtm

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The magic didn’t play well at all, but I thought the Celts defensive compete level was really high, across the board.

Now let’s see if they can carry it over for more than a game.
The Celtics defense, for over a year now, is the "0 days since last accident" meme come to life. They always show something, but the counter rarely gets over 2 before resetting.
 

CreightonGubanich

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Yes. It's the defense. That's it. I'm really not worried about the offense. Tatum, Brown and Horford are that good, and the pieces are there to surround them once they figure out the rotation. The offense may not look pretty; they may play sub-optimally at times, settling for isos or midrange shots more than they should. There will likely be continued friction about who has the ball when. But Jayson Tatum still exists. He's gotten off to a bad start, but he didn't get worse. They'll be fine, and they'll score enough points to win if they can figure out the defense.

Because the defense should be good. The individual players are too good to have a defense this bad over an extended sample. There may be tweaks they need to make -- I'm not a fan of starting Williams and Horford together, even though it's basically a symbolic gesture so that Horford can call himself the starting four. They sub Al out early for Grant at the moment, who is neither a wing nor a big. I'd rather those minutes go to one of the wings, and the run last night with Smart-Richardson-Langford on the floor with Al gives me some confidence that it might work. Some of it's effort; there was at least one play last night where Rob Williams missed a shot, went for an ill-advised steal, and then slowly jogged back down the floor while his man got an uncontested layup. They need to clean that stuff up.

Most of the defensive stuff starts with Udoka. He has to get guys on the same page in terms of whatever defensive system they want to play, he has to be able to demand effort without guys tuning out, and he needs to figure out the rotation to optimize the defense. If those things get done, I'm confident this team will be fine. If not, they're a bottom four seed at best with no shot at winning a playoff series.
 

Fishy1

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Yes. It's the defense. That's it. I'm really not worried about the offense. Tatum, Brown and Horford are that good, and the pieces are there to surround them once they figure out the rotation. The offense may not look pretty; they may play sub-optimally at times, settling for isos or midrange shots more than they should. There will likely be continued friction about who has the ball when. But Jayson Tatum still exists. He's gotten off to a bad start, but he didn't get worse. They'll be fine, and they'll score enough points to win if they can figure out the defense.

Because the defense should be good. The individual players are too good to have a defense this bad over an extended sample. There may be tweaks they need to make -- I'm not a fan of starting Williams and Horford together, even though it's basically a symbolic gesture so that Horford can call himself the starting four. They sub Al out early for Grant at the moment, who is neither a wing nor a big. I'd rather those minutes go to one of the wings, and the run last night with Smart-Richardson-Langford on the floor with Al gives me some confidence that it might work. Some of it's effort; there was at least one play last night where Rob Williams missed a shot, went for an ill-advised steal, and then slowly jogged back down the floor while his man got an uncontested layup. They need to clean that stuff up.

Most of the defensive stuff starts with Udoka. He has to get guys on the same page in terms of whatever defensive system they want to play, he has to be able to demand effort without guys tuning out, and he needs to figure out the rotation to optimize the defense. If those things get done, I'm confident this team will be fine. If not, they're a bottom four seed at best with no shot at winning a playoff series.
Agree almost 100%. I think I'd add last night was a start in the right direction. The Magic shot a miserable percentage on their three pointers, and a lot of that just has to do with poor shooting, but the C's put together a tough defensive stretch and shut down a team that has three guys shooting 40% + on 3's and six guys scoring 10+ a game.

They'll need to keep doing it night-in, night-out, but the effort was there, and it seemed like everyone was holding themselves and each other accountable without substantial rancor. I think tonight is a chance to upset a tough Miami team. The Celtics match up pretty well against them: they've got the length to bother Duncan Robinson (I hope, between Tatum, Richardson, et. al), the strength (between Jaylen, Tatum and Smart) to bother Butler, and two strong defenders to throw at Adebayo in Williams and Horford.

I think they'll lose -- second night of back-to-back, miserable season so far -- but it would be nice to see them play hard and together two nights in a row. Of course, if Tatum continues to suck on O, we probably won't stand a chance.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Viewed through this lens (which is a good lens), I think the most encouraging thing last night was lock down 3rd quarter defense from a Schroder, Smart, Richardson, Langford, Horford unit.
They were a desperate team once again and finally got a W……combine desperation with the Magic’s offense and you’re gonna get lockdown defense much of the time. Good test tonight.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Yes. It's the defense. That's it. I'm really not worried about the offense. Tatum, Brown and Horford are that good, and the pieces are there to surround them once they figure out the rotation. The offense may not look pretty; they may play sub-optimally at times, settling for isos or midrange shots more than they should. There will likely be continued friction about who has the ball when. But Jayson Tatum still exists. He's gotten off to a bad start, but he didn't get worse. They'll be fine, and they'll score enough points to win if they can figure out the defense.

Because the defense should be good. The individual players are too good to have a defense this bad over an extended sample. There may be tweaks they need to make -- I'm not a fan of starting Williams and Horford together, even though it's basically a symbolic gesture so that Horford can call himself the starting four. They sub Al out early for Grant at the moment, who is neither a wing nor a big. I'd rather those minutes go to one of the wings, and the run last night with Smart-Richardson-Langford on the floor with Al gives me some confidence that it might work. Some of it's effort; there was at least one play last night where Rob Williams missed a shot, went for an ill-advised steal, and then slowly jogged back down the floor while his man got an uncontested layup. They need to clean that stuff up.

Most of the defensive stuff starts with Udoka. He has to get guys on the same page in terms of whatever defensive system they want to play, he has to be able to demand effort without guys tuning out, and he needs to figure out the rotation to optimize the defense. If those things get done, I'm confident this team will be fine. If not, they're a bottom four seed at best with no shot at winning a playoff series.
I agree with you that it's the defense I'm most concerned about but part of the issue is that the Cs don't get back well in transition so TOs and long rebounds off missed 3Ps have been - to my eye (and again without doing any research) - killing them.

Hopefully IME can do something about the Cs transition defense.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I agree with you that it's the defense I'm most concerned about but part of the issue is that the Cs don't get back well in transition so TOs and long rebounds off missed 3Ps have been - to my eye (and again without doing any research) - killing them.

Hopefully IME can do something about the Cs transition defense.
Making shots will solve the transition defense problem.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Making shots will solve the transition defense problem.
Yes making shots and not turning the ball over will definitely help the Cs transition defense.

So will running back hard on defense and keeping the floor balanced.

Seems like one set is easier to control than the other but what do I know?
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
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Making shots will solve the transition defense problem.
Not really. Every team misses a lot of shots, and you can't have your defense be entirely dependant on your offense, that's how you get blown out in the 4th quarter by a mediocre Bulls team.
They need to play good defense in transition, and in the halfcourt, which will create easy offense. Basing you entire success on hoping you can produce in halfcourt offense or you'll lose... well you're gonna lose a lot.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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Making shots will solve the transition defense problem.
Will it though? I mean, as bad as the C's are shooting, they are currently shooting the deep ball better than Utah, Phoenix, Washington, Denver, Dallas, all of whom are getting back on defense better than the C's are?

The transition defense has been terrible, but their half court defense has also been atrocious this year too.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Will it though? I mean, as bad as the C's are shooting, they are currently shooting the deep ball better than Utah, Phoenix, Washington, Denver, Dallas, all of whom are getting back on defense better than the C's are?

The transition defense has been terrible, but their half court defense has also been atrocious this year too.
Fair point. While it may not “fix” the defense it will absolutely help. Someone like Tatum, who seems more streaky than most, will be more involved in the game flow when his offense is working.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Not really. Every team misses a lot of shots, and you can't have your defense be entirely dependant on your offense, that's how you get blown out in the 4th quarter by a mediocre Bulls team.
They need to play good defense in transition, and in the halfcourt, which will create easy offense. Basing you entire success on hoping you can produce in halfcourt offense or you'll lose... well you're gonna lose a lot.
I mean “not really” is a completely inaccurate response to this question. The entire team is retreating toward mid court as the opp is taking the ball out of net as opposed to players either going after the off reb or getting trapped on the baseline as transition is breaking out. These are two totally different scenarios.
 

NickEsasky

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I mean “not really” is a completely inaccurate response to this question. The entire team is retreating toward mid court as the opp is taking the ball out of net as opposed to players either going after the off reb or getting trapped on the baseline as transition is breaking out. These are two totally different scenarios.
Making shots will help with transition defense but you said it would solve it which isn't true. It'll still take them making a concerted effort and not jogging back on defense considering they will still be missing a lot of shots.
 

slamminsammya

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Jul 31, 2006
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I hope they can get their act together because Horford right now is really turning into, well not a steal because he has a big contract, but a really strong pick-up for the team. He's everywhere on defense and unselfish on offense. If he isn't calcified like I kind of thought he was, this team has something.

View: https://twitter.com/HoopsEmpire_/status/1456247568497664006?s=20
Not sure how strong an all defense case can be when you are playing big minutes for a bad defense.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Making shots will help with transition defense but you said it would solve it which isn't true. It'll still take them making a concerted effort and not jogging back on defense considering they will still be missing a lot of shots.
It will solve “the problem”……..unless a team makes every shot you will be susceptible to numbers the other way unless your offense has every player retreating on the every shot attempt.
 

benhogan

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They were a desperate team once again and finally got a W……combine desperation with the Magic’s offense and you’re gonna get lockdown defense much of the time. Good test tonight.
how heavy are you on the Heat tonight?

or do you fear the eventual Tatum breakout game
 

NickEsasky

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It will solve “the problem”……..unless a team makes every shot you will be susceptible to numbers the other way unless your offense has every player retreating on the every shot attempt.
Maybe I am just not understanding your argument. Clearly making more shots will improve transition D (we both agree on that point) but having guys standing around complaining about calls or watching the other team hustle down the court while they coast will still leave them shorthanded in transition. So you seem to be saying that better offense will cure what ails them while I would argue there needs to be some additional effort on their part when they do miss shots as well.