The Game Goat Thread: Wk. 6 vs Dallas

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I think that’s a bit harsh on 2020, Dugger, Onwenu, and Uche may become impact players, though they aren’t yet. But your larger point stands.
I agree the jury is still out on Dugger and Uche (Onwenu was drafted later). Amazing that Dugger and Uche are probably the best 1st or 2nd rounders of that run though.

In the end, we just have to hope that players like Dugger, Uche, and Barmore pan out, draft well again for a couple years, and hope that it all comes together toward the latter end of Mac's rookie deal. Right now the team just doesn't have the talent to play with the top 10 or so teams in the league.
 

Cellar-Door

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I know personally of one player on this year’s roster who thinks that he’s a completely incompetent moron.
I mean, I'm sure that's true of players with regards to every Coordinator who has ever been in the league. I can't truly parse what is him vs. Bill, etc. but the defensive playcalling has been good, and they aren't underperforming their talent level by any means.
 

mikeot

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Secondary embarrassed themselves, no chance to win when you give up so many big plays; Mills in particular as aforementioned.
 

Eddie Jurak

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They gave up a ton of yards but bent-but-didn't-break effectively. They held the Cowboys to 23 points in regulation.

This is a weird one to assign blame. The offense started great, got the big TD late, and was completely dreadful in the middle. And the pick six was an absolute killer. The D kept them in the game for the most part but struggled late.
I think the D was good early, but they were on the field a LOT because the Patrios were either moving the ball quickly or (after the strip sack) going 3 and out. In the 4th they were gassed and just hanging on, and by OT they were done.

I think this was a nice game for the D. Also will credit the O for going 3 for 3 in the red zone.
 

PedroKsBambino

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As to Steve, I don't think anyone external has a clue whether he's a rising star or an incompetent moron. We couldn't figure out which Pats assistant was doing what when they weren't related to the head coach---no way we can now. We don't even know if he's calling the plays or designing the game plan, do we?
 

Harry Hooper

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Great effort, but major screw-ups in all 3 phases combined with some questionable coaching decisions. Still, the organizational disdain for speed in the LB and WR corps is an ongoing big problem.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Steve is an enticing target for some because he has some odd tics and everyone loves to attack nepotism, the latter of which is a rich point to make inside a league that might as well have it as a foundational pillar of coaching/management selection philosophy.
I agree it’s a league where this has been common, but this is what you open yourself up to by doing it. It’s hard for the average fan to evaluate coordinator performance, and in fact blaming the offensive and defensive coordinator is commonplace. When it is the coach’s son and the unit isn’t playing well of course everyone is going to default to that, which is precisely why nepotism sucks to begin with. Bill does not give a shit about what the media or fans think, but I actually don’t think he’s doing what’s in Steve’s best interests if Steve wants a career in the league after his dad retires.
 

patinorange

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I know personally of one player on this year’s roster who thinks that he’s a completely incompetent moron.
None of us will ever know if Steve is more than a coffee boy for Bill or if Steve is actually contributing to schemes that allow a 3rd and 25 completion that just gets them into FG range.
But one thing is evident. Bill likes big, run stopping linebackers. Any decent team can exploit this. Hightower and Bentley are tough to watch unless its a goal line stand. This defense has had a chance to win a couple of games and they cant do it.
 

soxin6

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None of us will ever know if Steve is more than a coffee boy for Bill or if Steve is actually contributing to schemes that allow a 3rd and 25 completion that just gets them into FG range.
But one thing is evident. Bill likes big, run stopping linebackers. Any decent team can exploit this. Hightower and Bentley are tough to watch unless its a goal line stand. This defense has had a chance to win a couple of games and they cant do it.
If only they actually stopped the run, but they just end up being slow and ineffective against quicker running backs.
 

lexrageorge

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Punting in OT when you’re 2-3 is inexcusable. Defense was on the field all game and was cooked. Coaches let the team down.
 

rodderick

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Without Gilmore this defense doesn't have the horses to play man against a team as talented as Dallas. It's that simple. They have to play zone and rush four because the alternative is having Mills on Lamb all day and that's the ballgame before you even take the field.
 

TFisNEXT

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Punting in OT when you’re 2-3 is inexcusable. Defense was on the field all game and was cooked. Coaches let the team down.
Yep. You cannot punt there. A FG loses the game and the Cowboys were in FG range literally all night. The only reason it was close was because of those two Cowboys turnovers in the Patriots end zone. But in that overtime scenario, those hypotheticals don’t matter because they didn’t need a TD.
 

Strike4

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Bill the coach devised a reasonable plan to play with a team that Bill the GM fucked up. And they lost a heartbreaker to a team that had so much talent that Bill the coach probably should have gone outside his comfort zone to attack more aggressively.

I'm rambling
This was well said actually.
 

Mystic Merlin

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I agree it’s a league where this has been common, but this is what you open yourself up to by doing it. It’s hard for the average fan to evaluate coordinator performance, and in fact blaming the offensive and defensive coordinator is commonplace. When it is the coach’s son and the unit isn’t playing well of course everyone is going to default to that, which is precisely why nepotism sucks to begin with. Bill does not give a shit about what the media or fans think, but I actually don’t think he’s doing what’s in Steve’s best interests if Steve wants a career in the league after his dad retires.
I think it may be Steve not doing what is Steve’s best interests, ultimately, I agree that perception - unfounded or not - is hurting and will hurt him if he stays under Bill until Bill retires.

Who knows what Bill and him discuss privately? For all we know, Steve and Bill may think that he eventually needs to leave the Pats, but why jump immediately when he can learn so much under the GOAT?

Anyways I agree that Steve needs to strike out on his own at some point to buttress his bona fides; that’s what I would do.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Counterpoint:
View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1449886673173721091?s=20

Evan Lazar: I really don't know what more you all expect out of a defense playing an offense this talented in 2021. They held Dallas below their season averages in points, yards per play, and EPA. This isn't 1970 anymore.

Evan Lazar: The fact that we can’t put the counting stats into context of A. How many plays the defense was out there for and B. The fact that they had DAL to 23 points in regulation is frustrating. Was it a perfect game by the defense? Heck no. But the #Patriots D was competitive. Took OT.

Dallas came in averaging 34 points per game, 31.6 if you subtract out their defensive touchdowns. Pats held them to 29 in regulation, 6 of which was on the offense (pick 6). Meanwhile, the offense ran very few plays in the first 3 quarters, barely controlling the ball at all in the second and third.

The defense wasn't the problem today.
 
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PseuFighter

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Gillette was also loaded with Cowboys fans today. Wasn't at all like this in 2019. Definitely added a damper to things.
 
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I have a small-g goat award for N’Keal Harry who has to be redirected and hurried BY AN EFFING ROOKIE QB because he doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing in this offense, three years into it.
 

BigSoxFan

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What an incredibly frustrating season. This should be a 4-2 team with a marquee win over the Bucs or Cowboys. With some luck and better execution, they could be 5-1 with wins over both. But, instead, they’re 2-4 and have basically no chance of making the playoffs.

Now to goats:

1) Coaching staff: this team continues to make stupid mistakes at the worst times and BB is coaching like a Mike McCarthy disciple. Absolutely cowardly decisions time and time again. McDaniels’ play calling continues to be very uneven. That 2nd down run in OT was crap. The fade to Agholor on 3rd down was a nice touch. I don’t know who the new Dante is nor do I care to look it up but he is failing miserably. Can’t believe how bad this OL is.

2) Jalen Mills and Nelson Agholor. Two loser former Eagles doomed this team with pathetic plays in key moments. That Agholor drop in OT was such a killer. He had space and would have probably gotten some nice YAC there.

3) Isaiah Wynn. Sick of this loser. A terrible pick who is either unavailable or crappy when he actually does play. Dude is stealing money. Special mention to Cajuste. Yet another bust.

4) Bill the GM. Even with the FA spending, this team just has incredibly marginal talent across the board. Very few guys to really get excited about. The margin for error is so incredibly small.
 
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I agree that Agholor has to catch that and had a decent amount of green in front of him, but Meyers got the first down after that. I’d focus on Agholor more for not cutting off his route on 3rd and 3. Help out your rookie QB, have (edit) some awareness.
 

patinorange

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Counterpoint:
View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1449886673173721091?s=20

Evan Lazar: I really don't know what more you all expect out of a defense playing an offense this talented in 2021. They held Dallas below their season averages in points, yards per play, and EPA. This isn't 1970 anymore.

Evan Lazar: The fact that we can’t put the counting stats into context of A. How many plays the defense was out there for and B. The fact that they had DAL to 23 points in regulation is frustrating. Was it a perfect game by the defense? Heck no. But the #Patriots D was competitive. Took OT.

Dallas came in averaging 34 points per game, 31.6 if you subtract out their defensive touchdowns. Pats held them to 29 in regulation, 6 of which was on the offense (pick 6). Meanwhile, the offense ran very few plays in the first 3 quarters, barely controlling the ball at all in the second and third.

The defense wasn't the problem today.
Giving up 3rd and 25 with the game on the line is a problem. Giving up the largest amount of yards in the BB era is a problem. They could have won today, the Miami game, and possibly the NO game with a stop. The offense with a rookie QB and a decimated line is performing pretty much as expected. The defense is slow.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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I don’t want to hear “well they could be 4-2 or 5-1 except for a couple of plays.” There’s a term for teams that could be 5-1 but are 2-4: Bad.

Every team could be 2 games better than their record, because the margins of victory in the league have always been one or two plays. If you’re consistently 1 or 2 plays away from winning, you’re by definition a bad team.

I have no idea where they go from here. This is a team finding ways to lose. That speaks to coaching and confidence, and the coaching staff got outcoached by The Beav today.
 

Helmet Head

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Granted it went into OT but the Pats gave up the most ever yards during the BB era, 567.

View: https://twitter.com/cgasper/status/1449898371066613763?s=21
I don’t think the defense played great by any stretch of the imagination but they limited the damage pretty good and gave the team a chance to win. They were just out there all night after the offense couldn’t rebound when Mac almost got killed after the TD got called back. I think Mac may have gotten hurt which probably led to some of the offenses timid play thereafter. So I got to give the o-line the goat of the game with that said.
 

rodderick

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I don’t want to hear “well they could be 4-2 or 5-1 except for a couple of plays.” There’s a term for teams that could be 5-1 but are 2-4: Bad.

Every team could be 2 games better than their record, because the margins of victory in the league have always been one or two plays. If you’re consistently 1 or 2 plays away from winning, you’re by definition a bad team.

I have no idea where they go from here. This is a team finding ways to lose. That speaks to coaching and confidence, and the coaching staff got outcoached by The Beav today.
Their two wins came against arguably the two worst teams in football, and one of them was by the skin of their teeth. To look at this team and think they could be 5-1 is utter insanity at this point.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Giving up 3rd and 25 with the game on the line is a problem. Giving up the largest amount of yards in the BB era is a problem. They could have won today, the Miami game, and possibly the NO game with a stop. The offense with a rookie QB and a decimated line is performing pretty much as expected. The defense is slow.
They were quite obviously gassed in the 4th quarter and they held Dallas’ offense, the one that went for BB era record in yards against them, to - two field goals. That’s an achievement.

Edit: they also stopped a 2-point conversion after the pick 6 that would have ended the game right there.
 

BigSoxFan

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I agree that Agholor has to catch that and had a decent amount of green in front of him, but Meyers got the first down after that. I’d focus on Agholor more for not cutting off his route on 3rd and 3. Help out your rookie QB, have (edit) some awareness.
Does BB punt if the 4th and 2 is at the Cowboys 40 though? Feel like the Agholor drop changed the entire dynamic of that series. This is exactly the WR Eagles fans warned us about.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Their two wins came against arguably the two worst teams in football, and one of them was by the skin of their teeth. To look at this team and think they could be 5-1 is utter insanity at this point.
What I find the most discouraging is that they’re finding ways to lose. This was a winnable game today and they blew it. Miami was a winnable game and they blew it. Tampa was the same.

I don’t know how on earth they change that. They’re making far too many stupid errors and the coaching has been conservative to the point of self harm.

They gave up 24 on 3rd and 25 to give Dallas the tying FG. I mean what the fuck. That’s unacceptable.
 

TFisNEXT

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Does BB punt if the 4th and 2 is at the Cowboys 40 though? Feel like the Agholor drop changed the entire dynamic of that series. This is exactly the WR Eagles fans warned us about.
Despite there being a difference between the yard lines there in an academic sense, it is mostly irrelevant at that point. Once you decide to punt, you are counting on your defense to stop Dallas from scoring a FG. That is insanity. Two of the Patriots’ stops were in their own end zone, so those “bend but dont break” drives would have been useless in that scenario.

The Cowboys were in FG range literally all night regardless of where their drives were starting from.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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They were quite obviously gassed in the 4th quarter and they held Dallas’ offense, the one that went for BB era record in yards against them, to - two field goals. That’s an achievement.

Edit: they also stopped a 2-point conversion after the pick 6 that would have ended the game right there.
One of which was because they allowed 24 yards on 3rd and 25.

Gassed or not the defense was bad today. No sacks at all. Soft coverages all game and couldn’t get off the field. Make a goddamn stop once in a while if you’re that worried about time of possession.
 

Harry Hooper

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Despite there being a difference between the yard lines there in an academic sense, it is mostly irrelevant at that point. Once you decide to punt, you are counting on your defense to stop Dallas from scoring a FG. That is insanity. Two of the Patriots’ stops were in their own end zone, so those “bend but dont break” drives would have been useless in that scenario.

The Cowboys were in FG range literally all night regardless of where their drives were starting from.
Bailey was supposed to get off a much better punt in OT to pin the Cowboys at the 3. BB was then going to unleash the amoeba defense to get the game-winning safety. Poor punt to the 20 ruined the plan.
 

BigSoxFan

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Despite there being a difference between the yard lines there in an academic sense, it is mostly irrelevant at that point. Once you decide to punt, you are counting on your defense to stop Dallas from scoring a FG. That is insanity. Two of the Patriots’ stops were in their own end zone, so those “bend but dont break” drives would have been useless in that scenario.

The Cowboys were in FG range literally all night regardless of where their drives were starting from.
I agree. But since BB now coaches like Steve Addazio in these situations…

I have no idea what he’s doing. It’s simply gutless.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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I really think if the offensive line was what we thought we had, it would make not only the offense a lot better, but it would also make the defense better. There was a point in this game where they burned through several possessions in a row because Mac was getting killed like 1 second after the snap. It put the defense in a terrible position and at one point fairly far into the game Dallas had run something like twice as many plays as the Pats. I don't think the team overall is as bad as their offensive line play has made them look.
 

Ed Hillel

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One of which was because they allowed 24 yards on 3rd and 25.

Gassed or not the defense was bad today. No sacks at all. Soft coverages all game and couldn’t get off the field. Make a goddamn stop once in a while if you’re that worried about time of possession.
They held Dallas to 23 points in regulation. Is there anyone who wouldn’t have taken that going in?
 

BigSoxFan

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I really think if the offensive line was what we thought we had, it would make not only the offense a lot better, but it would also make the defense better. There was a point in this game where they burned through several possessions in a row because Mac was getting killed like 1 second after the snap. It put the defense in a terrible position and at one point fairly far into the game Dallas had run something like twice as many plays as the Pats. I don't think the team overall is as bad as their offensive line play has made them look.
Yup. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a BB Patriots OL get pushed back as consistently as they have this year. They are fucking awful. No attitude and poor technique is a great combo.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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They held Dallas to 23 points in regulation. Is there anyone who wouldn’t have taken that going in?
Not the point. With the game on the line, even if they allowed say 15 yards there they win the game. They couldn’t do it.

The defense has consistently found ways to fail all season long. When they’ve needed a stop with the game on the line they’ve failed.
 

leftfieldlegacy

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The pass protection was horrible. The O line was the reason the defense was gassed. The OL was the reason Mac fumbled and I believe they were a big reason why he had to settle for so many underneath routes. Watching the Cowboy OL work as a unit was inspiring. Their spacing was impeccable, their gap management also excellent. Dak had little pressure and no sacks. Citing slow linebackers, poor play by Mills and conservative play calling are all valid reasons for a goat nomination, but if the Patriots were able to swap their OL for the Cowboys', Mac would've thrown for 300+ yards, the Pats would have won by three scores and all of those other issues with the game would look like nit pics.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Yeah, the defense can’t get a stop when it needs it, and the offense can’t get a first down when it needs it. Maybe it’s fluky and will even out eventually, but I will believe it when I see it. They are 2-4, have lost all four home games and their only wins are against teams that are awful and also starting rookie QB. I get that they are starting a rookie and a bunch of new players, but I think the organization expected a lot better than the results they’ve gotten this far. It’s ok to be disappointed, especially in the face of what Brady and Company are doing, yet still hope for the best for Mac.
 

ponch73

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You have some idea as to how a defense is supposed to stop a pick-6?
Now add back the TD that the Cowboys scored on 3rd down (and the refs missed) before the goal line stand.

The D played great in the first half, but also got very lucky. They did not play anywhere close to great in the second half and overtime, and did not get lucky.

There’s plenty of blame to go around in this game, but I wouldn’t be so quick to absolve the D of its share of blame.