Rest assured, if a third all star joined the JayCrew ring chasers would be lining up to sign here.
Celtics Plan, Summer 2021
- Thread starter lovegtm
- Start date
And they would still have all their picks.
Trading for the 3rd guy doesn't leave the roster in much better shape. Usually you have to send out matching salary, a few good young players and some picks.
Admittedly, of the risks associated with freeing up the cap space, getting the ring chasers to come seems small. Just hoping that a Beal/Tatum/Brown combo is enough to get the right ring chasers to come.
They may have the flexibility that they don't necessarily need to match the salaries; a combination of outgoing salary plus cap room, or outgoing plus TPE would work. Still, it would be really, really helpful if at least one of Romeo or Nesmith had a fabulous breakout season coming up. I can dream on this board, can I?
I mean, the picks wouldn't do much for them it that scenario though since they wouldn't have salary match. It would be a pretty lean 1st year, with nothing but 3 stars, maybe a 2nd rounder, maybe the BAE and all vet min.
Celtics doing more work under the radar. Fucking amazing how this keeps getting done with no lead up--first Stevens to GM, then Kemba, now this?
Yes, Garland is the better player but the Cavs front office seem to be on top of this. I was hoping for Garland to be a guy who was available which I mentioned in another thread maybe a month ago.
I like Scal, but was hoping for so much more when I saw the SPOILER.
That felt like Christmas morning, opening up that soft gift, thinking it's an official NFL jersey...
only to receive a 6-pack of Hanes underwear 
Spitballing for shits and giggles...
Lillard to Philly
Simmons to Boston
Smart, Tristan Thompson, 2021 1st (PHI), 2022 1st (BOS) to Portland
A couple other small parts would likely need to be included to make the numbers work but...
Lillard to Philly
Simmons to Boston
Smart, Tristan Thompson, 2021 1st (PHI), 2022 1st (BOS) to Portland
A couple other small parts would likely need to be included to make the numbers work but...
I don't think there is any way that Portland trades Lillard for that. I also don't think they will trade him at all.
Ahh that makes sense, figured I was missing something, thanks. I think another piece is coming, packaging Smart with TT probably gives them the best return IMO
If Chauncey loves Marcus Smart as much as he did a few seasons back there's a very small chance that the Celtics could work their way into something like this:Portland may accept this by assuming it includes Jaylen since nobody in their right mind would except the Blazers to not hang the phone up on them. Kinda like reverse psychology.
76ers get CJ/Langford
Blazers get Smart/TT/PP/Grant
Celtics get Simmons
Last edited:
Lillard is great but he is NOT worth Jaylen, 2 firsts, AND 2 other NBA starter(ish) caliber players. That's a hang up on the other end.Portland may accept this by assuming it includes Jaylen since nobody in their right mind would except the Blazers to not hang the phone up on them. Kinda like reverse psychology.
Langford, TT, PP, and Grant have varying levels of minimal to no value.
Ranking these 3 in terms of value, I probably have it.
Simmons: 4/146 age 25-28
Smart 1/14 age 27
CJ: 3/100 age 30-32
Simmons of course has led to a lot of discussion and is likely team dependent. I'd have him as slightly positive (though perhaps neutral or negative on the wrong team). He could easily be a neutral to negative value across the board with 1 more similar season/playoffs.
Smart I assume is a slight positive asset, though only 1 season.
Pretty easy to argue CJ is negative value.
Last edited:
Portland would choke laughing if the C’s offered Smart, Tristan Thompson and two first rounders almost certainly to end up in the back of the first round in a deal involving Lillard. There is also no way that would be the best deal on the table if Lillard was legitimately made available.
Fair point, but that offer plus Jaylen would be a huge overpay IMO. So that is where we are.
Lillard is pretty fascinating from a value perspective. Still absurdly good on offense, but he's a small guard owed 176M for his age 31-34 seasons.
42 M at age 33 and 46M at age 34 have the potential to be truly grotesque.
If you can get him while keeping Tatum and Brown I suppose you are knocking on the door of a title, but still a bit scary.
42 M at age 33 and 46M at age 34 have the potential to be truly grotesque.
If you can get him while keeping Tatum and Brown I suppose you are knocking on the door of a title, but still a bit scary.
I just can’t see a Lilliard trade scenario where Boston and Portland get together. Fun to imagine but much easier to see a McCollum deal (which is a stretch but more conceivable)
It does, though you never know with these guys. But even if that scenario came to fruition, it would be a big risk.
I honestly wonder how much positive value Lillard has on that deal right now. I'm sure some, but perhaps less than people would assume initially.
Same age as Garnett when he was traded to Boston and Harden when he was traded to Brooklyn. He'll have a lot of value.
I don't doubt he will have some, but 6'2" guards dont always age too well. It's a risk, perhaps a risk worth taking, depending on the details.
1 injury or below expectation season and that contract looks suddenly problematic.
I don't see a Lillard trade unless he gives them a short list and BOS is on it with a bunch of teams with nothing to offer (BKN, LAL, LAC, etc.).
I don't see the appeal of a McCollum deal for the Celtics, I don't see him as a significant upgrade from Fournier, who you can get for just money.
Is aging predictable for anyone? We see a lot of older small guards thriving in the league right now.. Plus if anyone trades for Dame, that's a win now move, not a win in years 4-7
It used to be sub-6 foot guards, or guards who aren’t great shooters who rely on quickness, or guards with wear and tear degenerative issues. I don’t see any reason why Lillard would fall off a cliff over the next 2-3 years.
I agree, barring a major injury I don’t see any sort of cliff either.
He doesn’t have to fall off a cliff for years 3 and 4 to be problematic.
I still think he has significant value, just pointing out its not all automatic upside.
article in Athletic getting into CJ and Lillard availability.
Quick takeaways: Final conclusion was CJ probably has a negative value. Smart a small positive. So they agree with you @radsoxfan. CJ has broken the same foot 3x. Red Flag. But the argument is he could fill that healthy Kemba role we saw for four months year 1 of Kemba's deal?
The pros with McCollum are fairly straightforward. He can fulfill the role Walker was excelling in up until his knee injury in February 2020, essentially functioning at the point alongside two notably improved playmakers at the wings in Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. He is well-composed running the pick-and-roll and coming over a screen to find his shot or make a good pass. In many ways, he is a more potent version of Evan Fournier on offense and so his fit should be great.
https://theathletic.com/2676791/2021/06/28/should-celtics-make-a-trade-with-portland-for-cj-mccollum-or-damian-lillard/?source=dailyemail
Someone mentioned above that Fournier does a lot of what CJ does and I agree. Unless they could do a 3-way where they land Ben Simmons I'm a HARD PASS on CJ to the Celtics
Lillard would take Jaylen+, that's a harder decision... I probably still pass with an eye towards 2023 Championship aspirations. BUT I can see if its something Tatum is orchestrating and making the move.
Unfortunately, even if Lillard demands a trade to the Celtics, it doesn't help much. He's under contract for 4 more years, so he's not a flight risk.
Beal demanding a Celtics trade is a totally different story that would drastically lower his final price.
Beal demanding a Celtics trade is a totally different story that would drastically lower his final price.
I recall Turner being pretty bad at Worlds - maybe they also had some personal stuff with him as well.
So Turner played with Smart, Kemba, Brown, and Tatum in the worlds and you think that Danny didn’t ask them about it when he had the opportunity to acquire him? I always assumed that they did a thumbs down on that trade when Danny gave Indiana the hard pass on Turner. It always annoyed me when NBA commentators (Danny Laroux) would go on and on about how Danny had missed out on acquiring Turner because of that. This is the opposite of the Banana boat gang.
I think this is selling McCollum short. He is a much more valuable player than Fournier and would be a significant upgrade, IMO
The Olympic team could use a defense-first / back-up 5 for Bam. Instead, they invited Kevin Love???
That definitely implied to me that Pop wasn't that excited about Turner's play in 2019 Worlds (unless Turner is still injured*)
https://www.indycornrows.com/2021/3/11/22325398/malcolm-brogdon-myles-turner-among-finalist-for-u-s-olympic-mens-team-pacers
Turner was part of the Men’s 2019 World Cup team which finished a disappointing seventh place. That team was 6-2 overall and Turner started all eight games at center. He played 19.1 minutes, scored 7.6 points per game, grabbed 6.8 rebounds per game. and blocked 1.8 shots per game.
*https://hoopshype.com/rumor/myles-turner-one-of-my-goals-is-to-play-this-summer-on-team-usa/amp/
Meh, I think McCollum is the better player, but in the role either would have here....
I'd much rather have Fournier for money than trade assets, he's as good a shooter (maybe better) which is the primary concern, he's got height so he's easier to hide on a no-offense wing/big than McCollum.
McCollum is good, I'm not sure he's significantly better than Fournier, particularly if it's as a 3rd option, I wonder how much of his value comes from being the 2nd option on a team that plays no defense and where the 1st option has insane floor gravity.
I'll never understand the CJ hype. Big money. Tied for 61st in TS% among active players (Hardaway) and does nothing else well.
If I'm defending McCollum...
He used to be a truly elite 3pt shooter. The league has caught up some, but he's still very good.
He plays a ton of minutes.
He's a good passer.
He almost never turns the ball over, his TOV% is pretty insane given his AST% and USG%, there isn't another player in the league close to him in terms of low turnovers, high assists and high usage.
He used to be a truly elite 3pt shooter. The league has caught up some, but he's still very good.
He plays a ton of minutes.
He's a good passer.
He almost never turns the ball over, his TOV% is pretty insane given his AST% and USG%, there isn't another player in the league close to him in terms of low turnovers, high assists and high usage.
But if McCollum were defending you, you wouldn't have needed to point any of that out, amirite?
Yeah, there's a reason I said I'd rather just give Fournier money than trade for CJ, he's a small SG who doesn't defend.
I think McCollum is overrated, but at the same time there is real value to teams in a guy who can score pretty efficiently, pass and not turn it over on big volume. Like for PHI he makes a lot more sense than BOS, because they have no perimeter players who can create their own shot and for others at volume. The Celtics have Tatum and Brown 2 guys who you can give it to on the perimeter to create their own.
Re defense and Fournier: we've gotten so accustomed to having bad defensive guards (and I suppose centers with Kanter) that we've somewhat forgotten how much easier it is to hide a 6-5 bad defender than a 6-0 bad defender.
You need the other guys in the lineup to be good defensively (Kemba+Fournier, nope), but then it's not super-easy to attack a slow 6-5 guy who at least has a bit of strength.