2021 NBA Playoffs Gamethread

cheech13

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Not sure Atlanta is one of the five best teams in the league and yet I would not be surprised at all if they won it all. What a bizarre playoff season it has been.
 

Jimbodandy

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“Guys, just get a big lead”

why don’t more coaches think of that?
No, just giving a fuck. I'd be asking the guys to play some defense. The Bucks could get where they wanted and seemed determined to return the favor.

Not a lot of defense being played right now
Yes, this.


Huge win for Atl tonight. They brought playoff intensity to Milwaukee, who seemed to think that it was a walk-through.
 

mikeot

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Hawks were a mediocrity for so long, this run must be so gratifying to their longtime fans.
 

Jimbodandy

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I'm really enjoying Atlanta and Phoenix runs. Congrats @Conigliaro's Potential They've done it right. No splashy FA signings, super team nonsense. Development + clever trades + shrewd signings
Yeah Hawks are a great mix of homegrown guys, smart trades, and some prudent FA additions. Really well put together team. Pleasure to watch them. Suns too.

I'll always be a fan of both of these teams for who they knocked off too, alongside the 2002 Angels, 2001 DBacks, and 2003 Marlins.
 

cheech13

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Hawks were a mediocrity for so long, this run must be so gratifying to their longtime fans.
I know what you’re trying to say, but in the last 12 years they’ve made it to the Conference Semifinals six times and Eastern Finals twice. That’s really good. They aren’t the Kings.
 

benhogan

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Yeah Hawks are a great mix of homegrown guys, smart trades, and some prudent FA additions. Really well put together team. Pleasure to watch them. Suns too.

I'll always be a fan of both of these teams for who they knocked off too, alongside the 2002 Angels, 2001 DBacks, and 2003 Marlins.
mea culpa here for mocking that Luka/Trae deal, clearly ATL knew what they were doing.

Trae's shimmy 3 had a Curry vibe to it
 

Euclis20

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I know what you’re trying to say, but in the last 12 years they’ve made it to the Conference Semifinals six times and Eastern Finals twice. That’s really good. They aren’t the Kings.
They aren't the Kings of recent history (the Kings aren't mediocre, they are just bad) but calling this their 2nd trip to the ECF in the last 12 years is underselling it a bit. It'd be just as accurate to say this is their 2nd trip to the ECF in the last 60 years. They've been to the playoffs plenty and out of the first round quite a bit over the last few decades but other than a run to the ECF in 2015, they've been on the treadmill of mediocrity since they had Bob Pettit, who is 88 years old.
 

Cellar-Door

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Here are the players to score at least 48 in an Conference finals game (Modern Era so post 71)
Jordan
LeBron x2
Dirk x2
Trae Young.

Trae is the 2nd youngest to do so.


Edit- Lol of the 22 times 44 or more has been scored LeBron has 6 of them.
 

cheech13

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By the way I owe the Atlanta team a big apology, as I didn’t think you could build a contending team around Trae and I thought their offseason was a mess and clearly I was wrong on both opinions. It’s a good team.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Yes, but I didn’t say I wouldn’t listen.
Fair. I hope you learned something, then. :)

Yes. Has anyone informed Steph that defense is half of the game?
I mean, apologies for the thread hijack (go Trae!!!), but ... try to keep track of the point you were making? Your Mantle anecdote suggests your point was that if Kobe had known it was good to miss fewer shots, rebound better, and share the ball more, he would have done so. Not a particularly compelling argument, imo.

But per your query about Steph's D: pretty sure he's aware it's half the game, since despite his small frame, he's been a solid defender over his career — roughly equal to or even a bit better than Kobe in terms of defensive impact on the scoreboard (with the caveat about positionality that I made earlier). Career DBPM: Curry +0.3, Kobe -0.1 (where positive is good). I'd argue that inch for inch, Steph's the better defender of the two; but obviously being 3-4 inches taller, 5-6 inches longer, and 30 lbs. heavier makes a big difference in terms of ability to lock players down man-to-man.

Kliq brought up a good point earlier about the faster pace of the current game, so here's their career production per 100 possessions (with Harden thrown in for good measure).

Regular season
Steph 34.4 pts on .626 true shooting / 6.5 reb / 9.3 ast / 2.4 stl
Harden 36.0 pts on .611 true shooting / 7.8 reb / 9.4 ast / 2.2 stl
Kobe 35.8 pts on .550 true shooting / 7.5 reb / 6.7 ast / 2.1 stl

Playoffs
Steph 34.8 pts on .609 true shooting / 7.1 reb / 8.3 ast / 2.1 stl
Harden 33.1 pts on .589 true shooting / 7.8 reb / 8.5 ast / 2.5 stl
Kobe 34.7 pts on .541 true shooting / 6.9 reb / 6.4 ast / 1.9 stl

Similar overall production per possession, with Kobe generally lagging a bit behind in most categories, and getting completely trounced in terms of using his possessions efficiently.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Fair. I hope you learned something, then. :)


I mean, apologies for the thread hijack (go Trae!!!), but ... try to keep track of the point you were making? Your Mantle anecdote suggests your point was that if Kobe had known it was good to miss fewer shots, rebound better, and share the ball more, he would have done so. Not a particularly compelling argument, imo.

But per your query about Steph's D: pretty sure he's aware it's half the game, since despite his small frame, he's been a solid defender over his career — roughly equal to or even a bit better than Kobe in terms of defensive impact on the scoreboard (with the caveat about positionality that I made earlier). Career DBPM: Curry +0.3, Kobe -0.1 (where positive is good). I'd argue that inch for inch, Steph's the better defender of the two; but obviously being 3-4 inches taller, 5-6 inches longer, and 30 lbs. heavier makes a big difference in terms of ability to lock players down man-to-man.

Kliq brought up a good point earlier about the faster pace of the current game, so here's their career production per 100 possessions (with Harden thrown in for good measure).

Regular season
Steph 34.4 pts on .626 true shooting / 6.5 reb / 9.3 ast / 2.4 stl
Harden 36.0 pts on .611 true shooting / 7.8 reb / 9.4 ast / 2.2 stl
Kobe 35.8 pts on .550 true shooting / 7.5 reb / 6.7 ast / 2.1 stl

Playoffs
Steph 34.8 pts on .609 true shooting / 7.1 reb / 8.3 ast / 2.1 stl
Harden 33.1 pts on .589 true shooting / 7.8 reb / 8.5 ast / 2.5 stl
Kobe 34.7 pts on .541 true shooting / 6.9 reb / 6.4 ast / 1.9 stl

Similar overall production per possession, with Kobe generally lagging a bit behind in most categories, and getting completely trounced in terms of using his possessions efficiently.
People talking bad about Curry is like your bat signal. I love it.
 

djbayko

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I believe that is when a team goes up 3-0 and ends up winning 4-1 (the one loss allows the losing team to save face). Going down 0-1 (or even 0-2 or 0-3) then winning 4 straight would be a backdoor sweep.
Okay, I always thought it was just 4-1. Doing some googling, the Internet doesn't seem to be picky on the sequence of the one loss, but I have to admit that it does kind of make more sense that way.
 
I'm really enjoying Atlanta and Phoenix runs. Congrats @Conigliaro's Potential They've done it right. No splashy FA signings, super team nonsense. Development + clever trades + shrewd signings
I freaking love this team. Really strong 1991 Braves vibes. And a reminder: that is the first ECF game Atlanta has ever won. So this is already their best team in post-St. Louis franchise history. (I wish I could stay up through the night to watch them live, but catching up first thing in the morning at least let's me miss all of the late-game stoppages in play.)
 

jon abbey

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I thought in the second quarter that Trae would need 50 for them to win and he damn near got it. His hoops IQ is just off the charts.
 

benhogan

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I freaking love this team. Really strong 1991 Braves vibes. And a reminder: that is the first ECF game Atlanta has ever won. So this is already their best team in post-St. Louis franchise history. (I wish I could stay up through the night to watch them live, but catching up first thing in the morning at least let's me miss all of the late-game stoppages in play.)
Ha, enjoy the ride.

I recall staying up to 6am in 2003 watching Cuse- Melo win its first National Championship in my London flat and gleefully walked into the office that day. If you make it to the finals I bet you'll have a few all-nighters
 

johnmd20

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I know what you’re trying to say, but in the last 12 years they’ve made it to the Conference Semifinals six times and Eastern Finals twice. That’s really good. They aren’t the Kings.
Before last night, they hadn't won a conference final game since 1969.

That's really good?
 

Devizier

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Ha, enjoy the ride.

I recall staying up to 6am in 2003 watching Cuse- Melo win its first National Championship in my London flat and gleefully walked into the office that day. If you make it to the finals I bet you'll have a few all-nighters
Watched the 02 Super bowl from a sports bar in Sweden. They would run major US sports events on tape delay to cut out commercials, so kickoff was around 1AM IIRC
 

lovegtm

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I freaking love this team. Really strong 1991 Braves vibes. And a reminder: that is the first ECF game Atlanta has ever won. So this is already their best team in post-St. Louis franchise history. (I wish I could stay up through the night to watch them live, but catching up first thing in the morning at least let's me miss all of the late-game stoppages in play.)
Once I started watching morning replays with stoppage-skipping, I could never go back.

Congrats on Trae--I was totally wrong about his ability to hold up defensively in the playoffs. He could be a top-5 player shockingly soon.

I'm interested to see whether Milwaukee goes more to that Giannis-as-roll-man action they found late in the game--that was a much more effective use of him in the halfcourt. Also how Atlanta adjusts to it: it looked like they were a bit surprised and didn't have a plan for what to do.
 

johnmd20

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Once I started watching morning replays with stoppage-skipping, I could never go back.

Congrats on Trae--I was totally wrong about his ability to hold up defensively in the playoffs. He could be a top-5 player shockingly soon.
It's funny and interesting how divergent Trae and Ben Simmons are right now. The difference is grit.
 

lovegtm

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It's funny and interesting how divergent Trae and Ben Simmons are right now. The difference is grit.
Trae is well en route to passing a lot of bigger names, simply because of the insane premium there is on skill and shooting in the NBA right now (I love it). The big question was whether he could hack it on D in the playoffs, and he seems to be able to.

The list of guys I might take him over is getting heretically long...
 
I recall staying up to 6am in 2003 watching Cuse- Melo win its first National Championship in my London flat and gleefully walked into the office that day. If you make it to the finals I bet you'll have a few all-nighters
If they make it into the Finals, I'll be in Japan for the Olympics and might be able to watch quite a few games live after I wake up in the morning! (I think Game 7 of the Finals would clash with my second day of softball commentary, but otherwise I should be good to go...but I'll definitely cross that bridge in due course.)
 
Trae is well en route to passing a lot of bigger names, simply because of the insane premium there is on skill and shooting in the NBA right now (I love it). The big question was whether he could hack it on D in the playoffs, and he seems to be able to.

The list of guys I might take him over is getting heretically long...
Thing is, Trae isn't even that good of a shooter - yet. I mean, he's great at the line (86% this year, and much better than that in Winning Time) and with the floater, but he only shot 34.3% on three-pointers this year during the regular season and is slightly down on that mark in the postseason. He's still only 22 years old; if he learns how to rein in the deep 3s and gets up to nearer 40% from behind the line, he might become an MVP candidate. And of course his swag is off the charts, let alone the BBIQ. I spent all morning reading SoSH and Peachtree Hoops and NBA Reddit content about the game just giggling like a school girl...there really isn't any feeling quite like this as a sports fan, watching a team and a player exceed expectations so often and by so much.
 

Kliq

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It was a strange game; Milwaukee came out and really outhustled Atlanta early, getting a lot of offensive rebounds and it looked like Atlanta was kind of hungover from their last series win. In the second quarter Trae went off and helped keep them in the game, and they crushed Milwaukee during a few minute stretch where Giannis was on the bench. In the third quarter something happened where Atlanta hit a switch and just started really grinding on both ends of the floor, with Collins and Capela all over the place crashing the boards, rotating on defense and making things happen. Capela did a really good job guarding Giannis, as good as you could really hope in ISO situations against him. Middleton sucked, which means he will probably get 35 in the next game. Jrue Holiday was excellent and really kept Milwaukee in the game in the second half.
 

the moops

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I didn't watch. Saw the score though, and my eyes deceived me, and I thought that MIL won 116-113. As I watched the 10 minute recap, I didn't remember the exact final score, just thought that MIL won and was thinking how the hell do they pull this out? Pleasantly surprised to see that they didn't.
 

Strike4

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I didn't watch. Saw the score though, and my eyes deceived me, and I thought that MIL won 116-113. As I watched the 10 minute recap, I didn't remember the exact final score, just thought that MIL won and was thinking how the hell do they pull this out? Pleasantly surprised to see that they didn't.
I didn't get to watch either but from the highlights, looks like the Hawks were down by 5 with 4:00 left. Call them upstarts or whatever, but winning a game on the road in the conference finals against a higher seed under those circumstances is pretty huge on the face of it. (Keeping in mind the highlights don't show the Bucks' lowlights to lose the game.)
 

lovegtm

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I didn't get to watch either but from the highlights, looks like the Hawks were down by 5 with 4:00 left. Call them upstarts or whatever, but winning a game on the road in the conference finals against a higher seed under those circumstances is pretty huge on the face of it. (Keeping in mind the highlights don't show the Bucks' lowlights to lose the game.)
I love watching the full replays for this and to get the flow. They are...accessible on the internet.
 

TripleOT

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Dropping your big ten feet off Trae on p/r coverage is ridiculous. The Bucks are a very stupid team.

Atlanta making this run without Hunter, and with a hobbled BogBog. Nate is getting everything out of this team. I love watching how they play with so much competitiveness and cohesion.

Trae is Curry-ish, at a younger age than when Curry became great. Winning three consecutive road game ones is quite an accomplishment, and shows that this team don’t GAF about seedings or hype or fans cheering against them. They just go out there and compete.
 

lovegtm

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Dropping your big ten feet off Trae on p/r coverage is ridiculous. The Bucks are a very stupid team.

Atlanta making this run without Hunter, and with a hobbled BogBog. Nate is getting everything out of this team. I love watching how they play with so much competitiveness and cohesion.

Trae is Curry-ish, at a younger age than when Curry became great. Winning three consecutive road game ones is quite an accomplishment, and shows that this team don’t GAF about seedings or hype or fans cheering against them. They just go out there and compete.
The Bucks just don't have the personnel to not do that when Lopez is in.

To their credit, they went with Giannis at center late and had him switch on Trae in the 4th, which slowed Trae down a lot (yes, I can say nice things about Giannis). That adjustment almost worked, along with Giannis as the roll man. I'm interested to see what Milwaukee does to continue those things in game 2.
 

Kliq

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The knock on Bud for most of his career is that he does well establishing a system that thrives in the regular season, but he is not a coach very good at making in-game adjustments and quick-thinking solutions, which is why he has always struggled in the playoffs.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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They were actually down 7 with 4:00 left - and the Bucks didn't get a single rebound (offensive or defensive) the rest of the game. Which is...something.
I only watched the last 1/2 of the 4Q and yes, ATL's rebounding won the game, which is interesting. I think they had three possessions where they got ORebs that killed MIL, including one possession where they must have gotten 3 or 4 ORebs and it lead to a John Collins 3P.

MIL looked gassed to me at the end but it was also because Trae breaks down the defense and MIL is scrambling all over the place, which is not great when ATL is playing Capela and Collins together.

I wonder if MIL has anyone on their roster who can slow down Trae. Holliday is a great defender but just isn't quick enough. (Imagine going from guarding KD in one series to Trae the next.)

I have to think that MIL has to attack Trae even more on the defensive end. Also, from Giannis's comments, they are going to try to be a lot more physical with him, which probably isn't going to do much except lead to more FTs.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I wasn't a huge Trae guy before this year and he has totally won me over---not only skill and impact but also his approach. Great fun to watch.

I am really impressed at Atlanta's play and also the depth; spectacular job building the team and the roster. I thought last summer they might be moving a bit too quickly in adding Gallo and Bog but they were right on the timing.

I just continue to worry the Bucks don't have enough adjustments available (in terms of personnel/looks) or the ability to do them well to get there. But it should be a great series, their top five is better than Atlanta's, imo, and that is pretty huge in the playoffs
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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The knock on Bud for most of his career is that he does well establishing a system that thrives in the regular season, but he is not a coach very good at making in-game adjustments and quick-thinking solutions, which is why he has always struggled in the playoffs.
Well he had 2 ATO plays that were really good down the stretch. He also has given up limiting the playing times of his stars, so that's a sign of growth.

Also, he changed up his rotation in the 4Q and stayed with his small, switchable defense. That seemed to work better against Trae but not as good against Capela and Collins, who combined for 34 rebounds in the game.

MIL has some interesting decisions to make: https://www.theringer.com/2021/6/24/22548560/trae-young-hawks-bucks-nba-playoffs
 

lovegtm

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I wasn't a huge Trae guy before this year and he has totally won me over---not only skill and impact but also his approach. Great fun to watch.

I am really impressed at Atlanta's play and also the depth; spectacular job building the team and the roster. I thought last summer they might be moving a bit too quickly in adding Gallo and Bog but they were right on the timing.

I just continue to worry the Bucks don't have enough adjustments available (in terms of personnel/looks) or the ability to do them well to get there. But it should be a great series, their top five is better than Atlanta's, imo, and that is pretty huge in the playoffs
Agree that Milwaukee has the better top 5, but Atlanta does have by far the best half-court offensive player on either team, and he's surrounded by good complementary guys.

That's also critical in the playoffs--Brooklyn almost beat Milwaukee with a much worse overall top-5, simply because their best halfcourt player was so much better than the other team's.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Agree that Milwaukee has the better top 5, but Atlanta does have by far the best half-court offensive player on either team, and he's surrounded by good complementary guys.

That's also critical in the playoffs--Brooklyn almost beat Milwaukee with a much worse overall top-5, simply because their best halfcourt player was so much better than the other team's.
Totally agree---and back to the question of "Can you win with Giannis as your go-to scorer?" really.
 

lovegtm

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Totally agree---and back to the question of "Can you win with Giannis as your go-to scorer?" really.
Yeah, I've tried to be balanced on Giannis because I think he does a lot of things well and could absolutely win a title this year. But as far as being a go-to-scorer goes, it's not looking good, and that is THE premium skill.
 

Euclis20

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Yeah, I've tried to be balanced on Giannis because I think he does a lot of things well and could absolutely win a title this year. But as far as being a go-to-scorer goes, it's not looking good, and that is THE premium skill.
This is fair, but he wouldn't be the first MVP level player who needed another guy around to take the big shots at the end of games. Garnett had a more varied offensive skillset with his outside shot and a decent array of post moves, but he was never comfortable creating his own shot in crunch time. Middleton isn't Pierce but he may be able to do a decent impression long enough for the Bucks to win it all (this year or in future years).
 

Kliq

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The game last night was strange in that Middleton was very bad, but Holiday was great so it sort of balanced itself out. The problem came down the stretch because as good as Holiday was playing, I think Middleton is a better scorer in super-crunch time due to his size and handle, which allows him to make tough shots and get to his spot on the floor.
 

Ale Xander

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Out of curiosity checked the Clippers prices today on the secondary. As low as $68+fees. So sad.