The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

CaptainLaddie

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where the darn libs live
This is disingenuous. You know that this isnt the only reason that the, "in BB we trust" faith is wobbling. At least in regards to the draft.

His success in the draft as of late has been questionable. This pick is huge for the franchise. Of course nobody knows the future, but you dont have to dig very deep on this forum to see even the majority of us laymen folk thought Fields was a superior option.

This isnt the first time BB has bucked standard thinking in the first few rounds.

2019 - DK Metcalf was almost universally ranked as a top 3 WR. We got N'keal Harry in the first instead.

2018 - Drafted Nick Chubbs backup.

2017 - Derek Rivers was our top pick. Know who went within 15 picks after him? Chris Godwin. Kenny Golladay. Shaquill Griffin. Kareem Hunt. John Johnson. Jonnu Smith.

We dont even need to dig into some of the crazy "Ras-I Dowling" type reaches.

I understand that the draft isnt perfect. And I've been willing to shrug it off. But, yes, when you can take a QB that is universally considered a better prospect by large portions of really smart people? And you take someone almost EVERYONE is down on? After the Patriots recent drafting history?

Yes. Make or break time.
2019: Metcalf went in the 2nd round. BB wasn't the only team to whiff on that -- in fact, every team, including the Seahawks whiffed on him. Clearly, since he was the 8th WR taken in that draft he wasn't universally ranked as a top 3 WR by NFL front offices. He also grabbed Harris in the 3rd who looks to be a kepper.

2018: Who was really good in his rookie year and instrumental in them winning a Super Bowl? 2018 playoffs: 336 yards, 4.7 y/c, 6 TD. Was he good in 2019? Not really, but he had 5.7 y/c in 2020 and was hurt. I dunno. If they don't win that Super Bowl against the Rams, I'd be more upset, but Michel was a huge part of that win (94 yards, 5.2 y/c, the only TD scored in that game). Oh, and they got JC Jackson, undrafted. That worked out pretty damn well.

2017: They literally had four picks, the first in the third round. You're going to hold it against him that he didn't draft a stud? Now who's being disingenuous? Give me a break. Also, they got Wise in that draft in the 4th, and he's been pretty darn good since he just got a four-year extension from the team!

You can do what you're doing for literally any front office. Belichick also drafted a guy in the 6th round who ended up being the GOAT. He got Edelman in 7th. He got Butler undrafted. I could list many more, but I've made my point.

You neglected to mention 2016 where yeah, Cyrus Jones sucked, but Thuney, Brissett, Roberts, Karras, and Mitchell were all taken -- all five have been serviceable to very good (or just extremely unlucky with Malcolm Mitchell).

I dunno. I know BB hasn't had the best draft record recently, but I still trust him implicitly since he's built the greatest dynasty in NFL history. You don't. That's cool, but I think you're just mad they didn't give away two firsts and two mid-round picks for Fields. I actually get that. I really liked Fields, too, man. I'll ride with the greatest coach of all time until he decides to quit. You don't want to because they didn't give up two firsts, two mid rounders, and more (since you have to beat the Bears offer) for someone who's not considered a sure thing to move up.
 

radsoxfan

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Surprised Waddle and Smith were both so definitive picking Mac over Tua, players usually usually play it a little closer to the vest.

We have a little more info on Tua than Mac, but I wouldn't trade Mac for Tua right now if given the chance.
 

Captaincoop

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Surprised Waddle and Smith were both so definitive picking Mac over Tua, players usually usually play it a little closer to the vest.

We have a little more info on Tua than Mac, but I wouldn't trade Mac for Tua right now if given the chance.
I put zero stock in that. Those guys know why they're being asked that question and they're helping out their teammate. Tua is already on a team, Jones is being evaluated for the draft. Easy to know how to answer that.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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Could have compared him to Greg McElroy
I didn’t even know who that was until he made that comparison. These bust takes might be right but again, same guys I see being pessimistic in Sox threads seem to think this pick is shit. Seems to be a pattern
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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BB just gave a master class performance. Nothing was revealed except coach is putting the rookie on notice that he has a lot of work to do. And Newton is the starting QB until someone plays better than him.
 

radsoxfan

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I put zero stock in that. Those guys know why they're being asked that question and they're helping out their teammate. Tua is already on a team, Jones is being evaluated for the draft. Easy to know how to answer that.
Whenever I see those types of questions, whether one is being drafted or not, almost invariably players give some generic canned answer that they're both great players, any team is lucky to have them, yada yada.

Didn't strike me as an attempt to pump up Mac's draft status, seemed genuine to me. I guess who knows.

Maybe someone can ask them now that Mac has been drafted and see if they were lying.
 

brandonchristensen

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After a year of Cam pretending to be a QB I’m thrilled to hopefully get the experience I was hoping for from Stid.
 

SMU_Sox

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Going to riff a little on Mac Jones.

The thing with any fairly-immobile pocket-passer is you have limitations. Mac can work around them with his pocket-presence and he has better escape moves than Trask but there will always be limitations to his game. You can scheme around them. You can have success with a pocket passer. The issue with Mac to me is his arm is fringy and I am not sold that he is an elite processor. If you have his skill-set you need to have a perfect surrounding, a great OL, good skill players, etc. But if Mac Jones can develop there is a case for him having more ceiling than at first blush.

You can fix some of Mac's issues mechanically which should stop balls from dying on him but he isn't going to be a guy who ever operates a vertical passing offense. In a lot of ways Mac Jones and Lamar Jackson have similar arms. They can attack the middle of the field and the short to intermediate areas but are going to struggle outside the numbers. If you can get his delivery more compact and less fading off his back leg he should gain both velocity and ball placement with the latter concerning me more with his next step the pro game.

Intangibles are important and I can tell you why I liked Mac Jones much more as I got into his 2020 tape. At the start of the process I only had Mac's 2019 tape and I had a 6.49 on him, a backup grade. One of his worst games was vs Auburn in 2019. One of Mac's biggest issues was adjusting to a post snap coverage that was different from pre-snap coverage. He couldn't see it. You know what happened this year when teams tried to pull the same shit on him? He saw through it. He actually improved and you could see defenses not fooling him. That is significant.

It was hard to get a read on him. Mac Jones was one of the most challenging evals and not just for me but for most NFL forecasters and evaluators... It's hard to evaluate a guy with a fringy arm, with inconsistent ball placement, with shitty mobility who plays on an absolutely loaded team for a phenomenal coordinator who has an offense that doesn't actually ask Mac to process a ton on most plays. Jones had around 58% of plays via screen, RPO, or play-action. Good thing for him the Patriots like play-action and screens too.

Let's look at his strengths and weaknesses:

Strengths: pocket presence, can get the ball out quickly, is one of the better field readers, has good general accuracy, hard worker, a locker-room leader. Works the short and intermediate areas of the field well and can have success downfield with timing and anticipation and will be aided through play-actions. Some of the best short and intermediate touch and anticipation.

Weaknesses: fringe to average arm strength, inconsistent to poor ball placement, lack of mobility, can be too quick to get the ball out and leave plays on the field, needs to learn when to throw it away because he doesn't have the arm or athleticism to play back-yard ball.

I like dual-threats. I like mobile guys. I like the Lamar Jacksons, Justin Fields, Trey Lance's of the world. I don't like guys who have narrower paths to success and have, and this is true whether you love Mac or not, fewer tools in the tool belt. But as long as Mac Jones can win as a pocket passer he can be a quality starter. If Jones can add arm strength, become more of an athlete which would lead to better mobility in the pocket as well as another way to increase his arm strength, fix his mechanics which would then lead to ball placement improvement and velocity increases he has the makings of a Matt Ryan kind of a QB prospect on the high end and a Marc Bulger on the low end. Guys who have elite mental traits like Brady, Ryan, Manning, Brees are rare but there is a path to a higher ceiling QB based on RARE elite traits. Does he have them? Will he have the chance to develop them? Remains to be seen. His mental progression from 2019 is a cause for optimism though.

I guess another reason I was a little lower on him is I am a human being, he isn't my type, and I wish I was going to watch a flashier, sexier, toolsier prospect for my favorite team. But if I can talk myself into liking Mac Jones and being rational and not petty about it after an entire off-season of dreading him... well, and I don't know who else needs to hear this, maybe you can too :)

Now let's get some DBs, RBs, and OTs. And a WR would be nice too. Got to keep the weaponz fresh for Mac Daddy. Only the best for our country-club QB. Hey. I had to get one dig in, right?


The thing I like the most about Mac is his cost. They have a 2-4 year window with last years draft, the rest of this years draft, and the free-agents they got this year. The only realistic way imo they were doing that is by having a rookie QB on that sweet sweet rookie deal. With the way Mac improved from 2019-2020 if he can starter by the end of this year they could be in contention for the division next year.

There is a negative side too. If Mac Jones was more a product of a loaded team and a great scheme and who is more immobile and doesn't continue to develop as a pocket passer he could absolutely be a bust but then again that is true of any QB.
 
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Silverdude2167

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The thing with any fairly-immobile pocket-passer is you have limitations.
This was a great post and thank you for it.

I do take issue with the above quote though....Historically your top QB's have been the fairly immobile pocket passer, and while we are seeing an increase in the escapability in the newer crop of QB's, it is by no means a requirement for success.

I personally am far more concerned at potential issues throwing outside the numbers.
 

The Talented Allen Ripley

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We're all down on drafting Mac Jones, rightfully so, but pundits galore think it's a great pick at that spot given our needs.

Tell me why Mac Jones is a great addition to this team. I want to believe. I mean that, I'm a sucker for it.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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We're all down on drafting Mac Jones, rightfully so, but pundits galore think it's a great pick at that spot given our needs.

Tell me why Mac Jones is a great addition to this team. I want to believe. I mean that, I'm a sucker for it.
I'm all for starting new threads but I think we have too much of an overlap with the other Mac Jones thread, no?

Let me know if I'm missing something though.
 

JM3

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I am still disappointed - & nothing Mac can say about his DUI & nearly dying from wearing crocs is going to change that.

Do I think BB is the best football coach ever & has a great knack for coaching up players & doing the draft the right way in terms of more darts & being ahead of the curve in so many ways? Of course.

Do I think he's an infallible QB evaluator? Or WR evaluator? Or 2nd round DB evaluator? Nope, not really.

Still wouldn't trade BB for the world, but I think they're wrong here. Will hope for the best, though.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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Am I the only one thrown off by Bill in a suit? Soooooo weird. Parallel universe shit
 

scottyno

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2 of the best football minds of all time think he's a very good football player, that seems like a pretty good start
 

scottyno

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BB's history of drafting qbs has to be way better than most. Sure he's burned some mid round picks on guys that never did anything, but he hit on Jimmy G, him decently on Brissett, hit a home run on Cassel, plus that Brady guy. And all that without ever spending above pick 62 on a qb until today.

We'll probably never know for sure, but it sounds like they had Jones above Fields on their draft board.
 

Trlicek's Whip

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I think just more about coming in to compete, as opposed to the stuff about taking notes and learning from his mentors, Cam and Stidham.

Let's try "Doesn't really matter" next.
I like that he's a 1st round bust because the boilerplate athlete-speak didn't fill in your bingo card. Sports Mad Libs are probably not a leading indicator of his skills or future successes or failures, though.
 
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Phil Plantier

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Here's Dane Brugler's write-up. I found his draft guide an excellent resource (you should subscribe to The Athletic!)

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burstnbloom

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After sleeping on it I’m feeling better. I wanted fields badly and he got tantalizingly close. I think Mac at 15 is fine. He seems good enough to be a long time nfl starter and that’s an obvious need for this team. I think I had convinced myself that the upside of fields being so high was worth the extra cost to trade up but I didn’t want to do that for Mac who lacks the same upside. At 15, for no extra cost, getting a Marc Bulger type really isn’t the end of the world. It’s just not exciting. Hopefully he’s being undersold and Chris Simms is right for once. I guess we will find out.
 

joe dokes

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We can all recite BBs draft "failures" from memory. I don't want to derail this thread, but is there a place where I can find how it compares to other franchises (since that is almost literally the only thing that matters)? Or how the comparison is done? (Guys still on team? Guys in NFL? All pros?)
 

sodenj5

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Surprised Waddle and Smith were both so definitive picking Mac over Tua, players usually usually play it a little closer to the vest.

We have a little more info on Tua than Mac, but I wouldn't trade Mac for Tua right now if given the chance.
Also, Tua was already drafted by the Dolphins at 5 and a millionaire while Mac Jones was still a potential second round pick when these questions were asked.

I wouldn’t necessarily use teammates trying to put a good word for their current QB as the barometer for NFL success.

I think the easiest comp to make is Kirk Cousins. And if you take Cousins in the middle of the first without giving up any extra assets and are paying him on a rookie deal, that’s pretty good business.
 

TSC

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The thing that gives me the most confidence about this pick is the fact that I don't even think the Patriots were announced as being on the clock before their pick was in.

No hesitation. No waiting to see if there was a deal to be made. This is the guy Belichick wanted and there was no doubt in Bills mind.

And while I understand Jones may not be the best QB over-all in the draft - everything I've read gives me the impression he's the best QB (that was a realistic shot) for the Patriots.

He seems like a prototypical Belichick player. Smart, processes plays quickly, doesn't make mistakes. His weaknesses are all things that can be worked on (arm strength), while his strengths are something that you either have, or you don't. Coming into the sitation Jones is, I wouldn't be surprised to see him have the better overall career than the 4 picks in front of him - even if they're they better athletes.
 

EL Jeffe

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You can probably count on one hand the number of college QBs who had the freedom to change plays at the line of scrimmage. Most are getting the plays and 1/2 field reads from the sidelines; Mac was in a really advanced system with truly unique responsibilities. So when people talk about processing with him, it isn't just after the snap. It's pre-snap as well. Knowing the play call, seeing the defense, and being able to understand leverages and adjustments. He was playing grad school football against a gauntlet of a schedule. Was Alabama loaded? Sure. But I'd argue the Alabama talent discrepancy was more or less in line with North Dakota State (which may have had an even bigger one), and the schedule BYU played this year. Clemson wasn't really challenged in the ACC either, the past several years Ohio State was generally much more talented than their opposition. I think people make too much of the Alabama talent/system stuff. Alabama played some real teams this year.

If people want reasons to knock Mac, they'll find them. If you follow the draft section forum, you'll know I've been a Mac guy since October. Each week he showed more and more it wasn't a fluke. Really good feet in the pocket, gets it out in rhythm and on-time, really accurate. I don't see the arm as fringy like SMU, I think his arm is fine. Almost 10"hands, which leads me to believe he'll handle the weather elements in NE fine. He tested much better than people expected(4.8 40, 32" vertical, 9'8 bj, 7.033c) - and he did that with a, um, underwhelming physique. I do think there is some physical upside there if he hits the weight room. Arm strength will improve, speed will pick up a notch. He's not a runner and never will be, but you don't HAVE to be. It's just a nice Get Out of Jail Free card for when needed.

Also, it's going to be really nice to see a QB who can execute a screen pass again.
 

GregHarris

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Watching the deep highlights of Mac, the two systems are so similar it's hard to imagine he'd struggle under Josh. He has all the things needed to thrive in New England, accuracy, quick release, strong short and intermediate throws, pocket awareness, and a head on his shoulders.

I know a lot of fans wanted to finally transition to the athletic QB mold that's taken off over the past 10 years. Not sure it works with this system. Does that mean the system needs to change? Maybe, but not for the foreseeable future, unless this kid is a bust.
 

DJnVa

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We're all down on drafting Mac Jones, rightfully so, but pundits galore think it's a great pick at that spot given our needs.
I'd quibble with "all". I wanted Fields or Lance, but it appears BB didn't want Fields (Kyed said he got the info that BB had soured on Fields about a week ago--unsure why he couldn't report that, unless it would burn his source) and Lance was never really an option once the Niners decided on him. I don't have much problem with Jones at #15 and it appears the Pats didn't either.

I will be interested to see how they design an offense with Cam and Mac (whoa, Cam backwards is Mac) as their styles are pretty different.
 

BroodsSexton

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Everything I've read (and I'm no NFL scout) suggests this is a high-floor, high-ceiling guy, who is pretty much designed to fit into New England's mindset and offense. Even the criticisms of his abilities and limitations sound familiar.
 
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I like that he's a 1st round bust because the boilerplate athlete-speak didn't fill in your bingo card. Sports Mad Libs are probably not a leading indicator of his skills or future successes or failures, though.
Right. Because that's what I said. That he's a bust. I even said it "doesn't really matter." Take a breath.
 

Section30

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Am I the only one thrown off by Bill in a suit? Soooooo weird. Parallel universe shit
I think it has detachable sleeves.

In each of the write-ups posted on Jones I hear the echo of the write-ups quoted in the Brady videos. Not fast, low athleticism, slow, lacks arm strength.....

Then I hear the positives fast processing, moves well in the pocket, anticipates well, accurate in short and medium throws, tough.

All we need to know is if he has fanatical drive to win, if he his hyper competitive and if he out works everyone else due to the chip on his shoulder.
 

8slim

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Can someone explain the difference between “accuracy” and “ball placement”. I’ve read here that he’s good at the former, and bad at the latter. I don’t know how the two differ.
 

Fishercat

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I'd quibble with "all". I wanted Fields or Lance, but it appears BB didn't want Fields (Kyed said he got the info that BB had soured on Fields about a week ago--unsure why he couldn't report that, unless it would burn his source) and Lance was never really an option once the Niners decided on him. I don't have much problem with Jones at #15 and it appears the Pats didn't either.

I will be interested to see how they design an offense with Cam and Mac (whoa, Cam backwards is Mac) as their styles are pretty different.
This is pretty much my thought process right now. I know there's a good amount of consternation around on this but most people think this is a 5 QB draft, three of those were completely inaccessible to New England (Jax and Jets weren't trading out and SF traded in with a huge price). Fields did fall to a point, but from what we know, the teams that traded out either weren't willing to trade particularly far down (Dallas), got a lot for the trade up (NYG), and/or New England wasn't interested in trading up for Fields. Jones' skillset does make sense here. The more I read on his strengths and weaknesses, the more he really does seem to make sense in the type of system that the Patriots ran successfully for the past decade and change. Brady or most of his fill ins weren't necessarily asked to be a super accurate deep passer or to use designed run plays outside of a sneak or make big throws on the run, they were asked to make a lot of plays consistently well while standing upright and make reads quickly. It seems like people think he can do this or have a shot at it. I definitely get why people were pumped about Fields and I am sure much of Jones' career here will be with a side-glance on how Fields is developing in Chicago, but I'm excited for this one.

Granted, I think some people (not here necessarily) are comparing him to Brady and that's really not fair to any QB ever. If you get a decent NFL starter as the 5th QB and 15th overall pick that's a pretty big win. Like, Sportingnews did a ranking of every first round QB since 2000. I think the writer is insufficiently reviewing new QBs (like Herbert should be higher than EJ Manuel if he retired today, nevermind on potential), but the overall viewpoint makes it pretty clear to me that getting a long-term, good starter is in the top 40% or so of results. Just have to hope that Belichick is right on this one.
 

SMU_Sox

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This was a great post and thank you for it.

I do take issue with the above quote though....Historically your top QB's have been the fairly immobile pocket passer, and while we are seeing an increase in the escapability in the newer crop of QB's, it is by no means a requirement for success.

I personally am far more concerned at potential issues throwing outside the numbers.
They were limited too. Saying someone is limited in an area doesn't mean they don't have the requirements for success it just means they have a traditional limitation that other guys who had success had. The game is getting more mobile. 27% of passes are not thrown out of structure vs Mac Jones, for example, throwing 17%. Can he create when things aren't perfect? That is a bigger part of the game now. Mac can still succeed but he can't win in some of the ways the 4 guys drafted above him can. Whether or not that matters to you or to his success and to what degree is all debatable of course.

Watching the deep highlights of Mac, the two systems are so similar it's hard to imagine he'd struggle under Josh. He has all the things needed to thrive in New England, accuracy, quick release, strong short and intermediate throws, pocket awareness, and a head on his shoulders.

I know a lot of fans wanted to finally transition to the athletic QB mold that's taken off over the past 10 years. Not sure it works with this system. Does that mean the system needs to change? Maybe, but not for the foreseeable future, unless this kid is a bust.
An athletic QB could play here if he had the timing and anticipation skills needed. Lance would have been a great fit for example and ran a lot similar concepts to the Pats including Hoss at NDSU for example.
 

SMU_Sox

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Can someone explain the difference between “accuracy” and “ball placement”. I’ve read here that he’s good at the former, and bad at the latter. I don’t know how the two differ.
Here is an example: On a slant if you hit me slightly behind and it is catchable it is accurate but your ball placement is off because you want to throw it a little ahead of me so I don't have to adjust to it.
 

moondog80

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Saban obviously pumps up his players to all teams -- is there a chance he's even 10% more forthcoming with BB based on their relationship?
 

BaseballJones

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I'm taking time today to break down these Jones highlights in the championship game against Ohio State, another team loaded with NFL talent.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzfWp-5WxXE


1. RPO into a screen to the left. Mac with the fake, gets the throw out in rhythm, thrown right where Smith can get it and accelerate.

2. Another play-action fake to Harris, who slides to the left flat. Jones looks off his first read, then throws a beautiful ball to Harris in the flat, in rhythm, so Harris can get yards after the catch easily.

3. Play-action, easy pitch-and catch to Smith to the left. Not a difficult throw at all, but of course Jones makes it look super easy.

4. Jones avoids the rush and scampers up in the pocket away from pressure and makes a nice creative little flip pass to Waddle. Good vision to see that play.

5. Jones looks right and middle, can't find open guys, then throws a dart to the pylon to a fairly well-covered Bolden. Just short of a TD.

6. Play-action, roll to the right, then a nice throw to a wide open Smith. Not a difficult throw due to Smith being so wide open. But of course, he makes it.

7. Straight shotgun snap, throws a beautiful ball deep and right outside the numbers for a good gain to Smith.

8. Little quick out to Metchie for a modest gain to the right. I see that Mac has thrown balls to all levels now, and to the left, right, and middle.

9. Play action, little soft touch pass in the flat to Smith for a touchdown. Gorgeous touch on the ball, something Cam has never shown.

10. Jones steps up to avoid pressure and runs for 8 yards. He's not Kyler Murray obviously, but he's not afraid to take the yards on the ground when they're there for him. Smart play.

11. Big pressure and Jones manages to avoid it and loft a really nice ball down the left for Harris for a touchdown. Guy bearing down on him and he gets it away beautifully. He recognized that the guy doing the blitzing would have been the guy covering Harris, so it's a really good read.

12. Laser down the middle through heavy traffic to Metchie for a good gain. I don't see any arm strength concerns on a throw like that. Just ripped it with pace.

13. Play-action, hits Smith down the right sideline. Smith had 3 yards on his defender at the catch, but if you pause it, here's what it looks like when he's about to throw the ball.

40711

Smith is even with the corner. Now Jones knows that Smith will - or should anyway - get by him (and the CB, Wade, is considered a 2nd or 3rd round NFL pick, so he's a legit NFL talent). But at release, Smith is even and Jones is throwing to a spot where he anticipates Smith will be. And when you see the result, the throw is right on the money.

14. Rollout to the right, hitting Smith short right for the touchdown. I like this throw because (1) Jones is rolling out and throwing on the move, and (2) he hits Smith perfectly in stride. Yes, Smith is open, but throwing on the run like that can often result in the pass being a little ahead or behind the receiver, so he has to adjust to catching it, which limits opportunity for YAC. He hit Smith perfectly for an easy score.

15. Deep ball to the center-right portion of the field, easy throw (well, at least he made it look easy) to a wide-open Smith for the long TD. Not a high degree of difficulty, but of course Jones hits him right in stride, 40 yards downfield. Effortless.

16. Escapes a heavy rush, and runs for 10 yards. Chris Fowler gushes about Jones' pocket awareness and escapability, and we again see his willingness and ability to run when necessary. You're never going to run designed QB runs for him, but he can get yards when needed. I like his toughness, diving into traffic for the first down.

17. Flip into the left flat for Bolden for the touchdown. Another nice touch pass, in rhythm, in stride for the easy score. Wide open, but again, the throw made it super easy for the receiver to catch and run.

18. Fakes a screen left, and while on the move to his left, zips a dart to Metchie 24 yards downfield in stride.

Obviously these are highlights and not lowlights. But...well...he didn't have many lowlights against an elite team in the biggest stage in college football. Which is part of the point. The guy faced a bunch of elite teams and shredded all of them. In this little 6 minute reel, we see Jones' ability to:

- Throw to his left, right, and middle
- Throw short, medium, and deep
- Throw on the run
- Throw to receivers in stride so they get max YAC
- Throw with zip (showing plenty of arm strength), and throw with touch
- Make quality reads, either seeing the blitz or working quickly through his progressions
- Evade pressure in the pocket
- Show a willingness and an ability to scramble for positive yards; nobody will mistake him for Lamar Jackson but he got the job done
- Showed toughness; at points he was limping and still hung in there and showed grit and competitiveness

So I don't know folks...again, this is a highlight reel so of course he's going to look good. But when I see stuff like this, I can't see why people are down on him. Seems like a really good quarterback at the highest level in college.
 

IdiotKicker

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Can someone explain the difference between “accuracy” and “ball placement”. I’ve read here that he’s good at the former, and bad at the latter. I don’t know how the two differ.
Do you throw the slant low to the inside to keep it away from defenders? If a defender is outside shoulder on a seam route, so you drop the ball inside shoulder? Not just hitting numbers, but hitting the right body part for the throw.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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This is pretty much my thought process right now. I know there's a good amount of consternation around on this but most people think this is a 5 QB draft, three of those were completely inaccessible to New England (Jax and Jets weren't trading out and SF traded in with a huge price). Fields did fall to a point, but from what we know, the teams that traded out either weren't willing to trade particularly far down (Dallas), got a lot for the trade up (NYG), and/or New England wasn't interested in trading up for Fields. Jones' skillset does make sense here. The more I read on his strengths and weaknesses, the more he really does seem to make sense in the type of system that the Patriots ran successfully for the past decade and change. Brady or most of his fill ins weren't necessarily asked to be a super accurate deep passer or to use designed run plays outside of a sneak or make big throws on the run, they were asked to make a lot of plays consistently well while standing upright and make reads quickly. It seems like people think he can do this or have a shot at it. I definitely get why people were pumped about Fields and I am sure much of Jones' career here will be with a side-glance on how Fields is developing in Chicago, but I'm excited for this one.

Granted, I think some people (not here necessarily) are comparing him to Brady and that's really not fair to any QB ever. If you get a decent NFL starter as the 5th QB and 15th overall pick that's a pretty big win. Like, Sportingnews did a ranking of every first round QB since 2000. I think the writer is insufficiently reviewing new QBs (like Herbert should be higher than EJ Manuel if he retired today, nevermind on potential), but the overall viewpoint makes it pretty clear to me that getting a long-term, good starter is in the top 40% or so of results. Just have to hope that Belichick is right on this one.
I think that is well summarized.

A broader point is that the draft is a crapshoot and no more so than at the QB position. The biggest mistakes you can make generally involve overestimating your own ability to identify players and packaging lots of assets to move up for players because you believe they are sure things or that your evaluation is so much more accurate than the rest of the league's evaluation. And that kind of mistake is magnified with QBs because it usually involves paying more to move up and because they are particularly hard to evaluate.

If you need a QB, what you want to do is take repeated cost-effective shots at finding one until you end up with the right guy. I don't have a strong personal opinion on Jones or Fields as players but I think given everything we know from the way the league sees the two players its clear that Jones at 15 was a smarter, more cost-effective shot than trading a future first (plus maybe another pick) to move up for Fields at 8, 9, 10, or 11. Their odds of being good and ranges of outcomes simply can't be different enough to believe that Fields was worth twice the draft capital. If you believe that you probably have too much faith in your own ability to predict player outcomes.
 

Shelterdog

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Well we had some back and fourth about whether BB would take the fifth ranked QB in the first round (looks like he did) and whether BB would draft at 15 a QB who projects to be kind of an average starter (looks like he did).

I'm higher on the pick than most here it seems. HIs arm, mobility and pocket presence seem a lot better to me than folks are saying: he's not McElroy. Teammates seem to love him and he seems to be a film grinder so that's nice. Not an incredibly well conditioned athlete so hopefully he improves that but I'm not sure that actually matters that much.

There's about what, a fifty percent chance a first round QB works out well? The upside is pretty high even if he is just an Andy Dalton, and the cost of the 15th pick in a crazy year in a draft that seems to have about 13 top prospects seems pretty low to me.
 

Zososoxfan

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@SMU_Sox post zeroes in on the philosophy behind this. Even if Mac is a reach at 15, he's a system QB who's likely a good fit for the system. BB HAS built the offense so that it would greatly benefit any QB and having good weapons everywhere in lieu of an elite WR, TE, or RB lends itself to a QB who can find the best matchup.

I'm sure BB did his homework and rightfully expects Mac to get the most he can out of his body in becoming a pro. Tactically, because Mac will presumably struggle with downfield throws BB will need to figure out how to scheme around press coverage and Cover 0 setups where the D dares the Pats to go deep. Then again, the TEs running seam routes should help significantly in that regard.

My biggest fear with Mac is that his height may prevent him from seeing the field well from the pocket. Most traditional NFL QBs seem to fall into the 6'4'' - 6'5'' range, and Mac is listed at 6'2'' - 6'3''. Dalton, Fitzmagik, and Bridgewater are listed at 6'2'', Carr and Cousins are listed at 6'3'', Ryan and Brady are listed at 6'4'', Wentz and Big Ben listed at 6'5'' etc.

So yeah, I'm OK with BB betting that Mac can become good enough during his rookie deal to get the ball out to the right talented guy, but I still wish he'd have gone for Fields since he can paper over talent or scheme disparities with his tools.
 

BaseballJones

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Brees is not a "mobile" QB. Brady obviously isn't a "mobile" QB. You don't need to be a Lamar Jackson to be wildly successful in the NFL. Even Mahomes only runs a 4.80 40, and Mac was timed at 4.79 at his Alabama pro day. I don't get the sense that he's as good an athlete as Mahomes, who seems to play faster than his 40 time, but still. Jones' athleticism and pocket presence might just be good enough for him to evade the rush and gain positive yards when needed. Again, we're not going to see too many designed runs for Jones (like they have in Baltimore or Arizona or Buffalo), but clearly you don't need that to be successful in the NFL. Leadership, intelligence, accuracy, toughness...those are the traits BB seems to like the most in a QB, and to me, Jones has all those. It's not surprising in the least that BB picked him so quickly when he was available at 15.
 

heavyde050

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I have another question on ball placement vs accuracy.
If we are just comparing three possible starting QBs (for NE) currently, how would Jones compare to Jimmy G and Cam when it comes to ball placement and accuracy. Cam looked pretty bad on both last year, but did show flashes. Jimmy put up okay numbers when healthy but seemed to throw a lot of passes slightly off the mark.