Hopefully, they get a pick, but man Reiss is right. This is complex!
View: https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1369294539358404609?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1369294539358404609?s=20
Pats trade for OL Trent Brown
- Thread starter boca
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But who, other than Ferentz, is our backup center? I wouldn't be surprised to see one of those 4th round comp picks go for a center.
i think both picks 5th and 7th are 2022 according to twitter chat. nothing final
View: https://twitter.com/PhilAPerry/status/1369286326869258240
Well, bringing Ted Karras back would be too easy of an answer, along with spending a late-round pick on a rookie center (highly doubt it'd be a 4th rounder).
Yes. Trade a 4th to the 49ers for Jimmy G. on a restructured contract after having sent him to them 3 years ago for a high 2nd and let them sign him to a league high contract?
Sorry, wishcasting.
I wouldn’t bring Karras back. I thought he was pretty awful filling in for Andrews and feel they can do a lot better than him.
Ferentz is a FA. The Pats did sign Marcus Martin late in the year. A day three pick on the next Karras would make a lot of sense.
Considering they have three 4th rounders, I kind of hope they use one on a center. I've seen the name Quinn Meinerz (Wisconsin-Whitewater) thrown around a bunch.
As you said, he wasn't a free agent
He has experience in the Patriots system, and the restructure gives him a chance reestablish himself for his next deal.
When an actual high-profile free agent who doesn't already have a track record in FA comes aboard, get back to us
You're right that he wasn't a FA, but this post isn't a fair criticism, really, of DJnVA's point. He was ABOUT to become a free agent, apparently (the Raiders were likely to cut him). And he didn't HAVE to take a restructured contract. He could have simply gone to free agency and maybe (or maybe not) gotten more money. But he didn't. He took a lesser deal to go with the Pats. Without that, NE doesn't likely trade for him and he ends up being a free agent after the Raiders release him.
So yeah, he isn't technically a FA signing, but he DID (apparently) take a pay cut to facilitate coming to New England. So it counts for something.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just a heads up, Trent Brown took less money to play for Bill Belichick. <a href="https://t.co/bZ5fFLHNpO">pic.twitter.com/bZ5fFLHNpO</a></p>— Jeff Howe (@jeffphowe) <a href="View: https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/1369314192486973445?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
">March 9, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
">March 9, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I mean, this seems to support @DJnVa 's point
Edit: @E5 Yaz 's "When an actual high-profile free agent who doesn't already have a track record in FA comes aboard, get back to us" isn't fair either. What "high profile" FAs have ever signed during the BB era? Rosie Colvin and Stephon Gilmore?
View: https://twitter.com/Trent/status/1369275834708721665
Edit: @E5 Yaz 's "When an actual high-profile free agent who doesn't already have a track record in FA comes aboard, get back to us" isn't fair either. What "high profile" FAs have ever signed during the BB era? Rosie Colvin and Stephon Gilmore?
View: https://twitter.com/Trent/status/1369275834708721665
So you can't judge on a guy saying he wants to play here, and taking reduced pay to do so, but you can declare that guys don't want to play here because of............
Yeah, that doesn't really track, this is evidence that players do want to play in NE given the opportunity, or at the very least don't see NE as a place that you don't want to play.
Well it's evidence that Trent Brown wanted to play in NE and was willing to take less to play here. Maybe he will be the only one to do that, I don't know. I doubt it, but it's possible.
As i pointed out, he's not a typical free agent making a typical move. He's going back to an org where he knows the drill and knew he thrived. It can't be viewed the same as a true FA w/o that background in NE
Are there prospective free agents that would want more $$ to go to New England than, say, a team that is closer to contention? Sure.
Does that mean that the Pats will have to overpay for any free agent that they want? That's absurd. Players have their own reasons for picking one destination over another. Role matters, especially for the middle-tier of free agents that are unlikely to get the big guaranteed money up front. Non-contending teams attract free agents every season; this one will be no different.
Does that mean that the Pats will have to overpay for any free agent that they want? That's absurd. Players have their own reasons for picking one destination over another. Role matters, especially for the middle-tier of free agents that are unlikely to get the big guaranteed money up front. Non-contending teams attract free agents every season; this one will be no different.
Brown reworked his contract to facilitate the trade because he may not have even gotten $11 million for next year on the open market. The market isn't exactly flush with cash throughout the league. He clearly wanted to be back in Foxboro, but this was a better option for him than becoming a free agent due to the depressed market.
That's fair, but who are the "high profile free agents" that you mentioned that have historically signed in New England for less than 100% of market? The only high profile FAs I remember are Colvin, Adalius Thomas, and Gilmore, all of whom received market. Maybe include Amendola in that too, he was pretty high priced.
If he wouldn't have gotten that much on the open market, why would BB bother to trade for him? Why not let the Raiders cut him - which apparently they were about to do - and then just sign him as a FA for less than $11 million, while at the same time keeping his 2022 5th round pick?
I guess i haven't been clear.
I'm of the opinion that with an uncertain quarterback situation, the Patriots aren't as attractive a situation as they were when those players you named signed. I'll be thrilled to have my doubts shown to be wrong, but my sense is that there's a wariness that, post-Brady, the Patriots aren't as attractive an option.
But Trent Brown just seems like the wrong example
Because BB did not want to let Brown hit the open market. It's pretty simple.
I think you're probably right in the big picture, E5. There's some good reasons why FAs wouldn't be as attracted to NE as they were with Brady. But they still have some gravitas - a top-shelf organization and the greatest HC (and maybe one of the greatest OCs) of all time. That's obviously going to be attractive to SOME players. And it says something when a guy like Brown, who's been here, is willing to take a pay cut to be here. It says, look, the guy KNOWS THE DEAL HERE and wants to be here. Presumably there will be others who might feel the same way.
But why not? If you're right, and Brown would have been signed for less than $11 million, then that means that the Patriots could have likely gotten him for less than $11 million and saved the small loss in draft pick position in 2022.
Maybe he just felt like going through the rigamarole of FA negotiations was more of a headache at this point, and it was worth the small draft cost to trade for him, even if he would end up paying him more money in salary.
But those guys were signed in 2003, 2007, 2012 or 2013 (Dola, I forget which year), and 2017. So basically once every 4 years. And as mentioned, they all signed for big $$ - market $$.
Or are you talking about the Rex Burkhead's of the world? I would argue guys like Burkhead were just undervalued by the rest of the league and BB jumped on their value. Similar with a Lawrence Guy.
Could you help explain what type of FA you are talking about?
Wide receivers who want to know who their quarterback will be
Quality FAs with track records who are ring-shopping
Players looking for their "one big score" contract
In general, the Patriots right now are an upper middle class team with a significant hole. They play in a cold weather state with high taxes, under a strictly regimented system -- factors that didn't matter when they were constantly in the Super Bowl hunt.
But in NFL terms, the pendulum has started to swing in the other direction. Maybe they rebound as a defense-first challenger, but they'll need pieces beyond those returning from opt-outs to get there.
Again, I'lll be thrilled to be wrong. But I don't see the type of free agent signing that would make us sit up and say "Wow, how'd they get him?"
Can't explain it any better than that. If you're looking for specific names, then I haven't been clear. As Baseball Jones said, I'm just focused on overall picture
Who fits these categories historically? You can't name a single name? If not, that kind of shows that the Pats have never been a free agent splash type of team (which we knew). They've NEVER signed a big name free agent wide receiver. Danny Amendola is the closest thing to that. I guess I'm not getting your point. Is it that, while they haven't signed these types of guys, they NOW will need to sign those types of guys to get competitive again, but you are worried that they won't be able to?
Not sure why we don't have a thread for a new (old) starting tackle, but figure we should start one.
Welcome home, big fella.
Welcome home, big fella.
What does this mean for the line? Cannon? Andrews? Thuney? Onwenu? Wynn? WTF?
Edit - Also...Brown/Onwenu/Wynn/Cannon are monsters. If Onwenu/Wynn are guards, those four men are going to fucking maul people, regardless of who is at center.
Edit - Also...Brown/Onwenu/Wynn/Cannon are monsters. If Onwenu/Wynn are guards, those four men are going to fucking maul people, regardless of who is at center.
I think it means they’re prepared to lose Thuney, and it gives them leverage/optionality if they want to restructure Cannon’s deal or cut him.
Doesn’t seem this trade would have any bearing on Andrews’ status, I imagine they’re prepared to make a hard push to keep him either way.
Doesn’t seem this trade would have any bearing on Andrews’ status, I imagine they’re prepared to make a hard push to keep him either way.
Tons of discussion already in the 2021 Pats roster planning thread, mods should probably move...
If they let Thuney go and put Onwenu at LG and Wynn at RT, how'd you like to be a smallish DE and the Patriots run left?
That's indeed part of it, although I'm not "worried" about it. As fans, we had an unprecedented 20-year run ... and to be worried about it not being the same is more than a little entitled.
I'm just looking big picture, and preparing for a Patriots team that is going to tread water.
This sidetrack started when DJ cited Trent Brown as an answer to suggest that players would still choose to come to the Patriots. I thought the example had flaws and that the premise is unproven.
There's a different between a "big name wide receiver," for instance, and the best available FA wide receive. If they got Robinson and/or Hunter Henry, for example, I'd be pleased, and surprised
They'll wind up spending money on free agents because, after all, they've got money while other teams don't. I just don't think it's because they're "the Patriots" ... because that version of the team no longer exists.
And, with that, I'm done repeating myself. PM me if you'd like to continue
We're good. My argument in return is that very few guys ever signed with the Pats "because they're the Patriots", so I believe you're arguing against something that never existed before. We can agree to disagree.
The Pats have flexibility on the OL.
- Brown can play LT or RT.
- Wynn can play T or G.
- Onwenu can play T or G.
So they can move those guys around as needed, with seemingly very little to no drop-off in play.
- Brown can play LT or RT.
- Wynn can play T or G.
- Onwenu can play T or G.
So they can move those guys around as needed, with seemingly very little to no drop-off in play.
I'm torn on keeping Cannon. Wynn, Brown, and Cannon are all very good, when they play. They've averaged 10.3 games/season combined for their careers. Brown has played more than 11 games nust 2x in six years, Wynn has played 18 total games in 3 years, and Cannon hasn't played a full season since 2014. It's not likely you can count of any two of them to play a full season, so you need a good swing tackle to pinch hit. Does Cannon bring enough to the table at age 33 and a season off to justify his contract? He really hasn't played much swing tackle since 2013ish. I started this post arguing to keep him, but the more I write, the less I am certain.
I assume it's Wynn/Onwenu/Andrews/Mason/Brown. Maybe you can flip flop the tackles. Wynn is a pretty decent left tackle when healthy (I'd assume he'd be a decent guard as well especially given his size and athletic ability) and Brown can play both tackles when he's not planet sized so I assume they keep them at LT/RT.
Cannon was slowing down before he opted out so I'm not so sure they keep him.
Onwenu played mostly RT last and acquitted himself fine, so I think you have your third tackle there. Brown and Wynn can both play LT, Brown and Onwenu can both play RT (maybe Wynn can too), so they have options, and Herron is fine as your fourth OT. Interior depth is probably the biggest issue now, assuming Andrews re-signs.
My thoughts exactly. They like Herron, too, it seems. This probably means goodbye to Eluemenor.
This is me typing out loud, and not questioning this. Figure the team keeps 8 OL?
Wynn/Owwie/Andrews/Mason/Brown - with Herron and Cajuste, and then draft a C/G in the 4th or 5th round?
I'm giving Cajuste one more chance to remain healthy and then I'm cutting bait on him, for all practical purposes. Dude has talent but just can't get on the field. I hope we're not counting on him in any material way.
