Kemba 2021: The Jour-knee Begins

bakahump

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 8, 2001
7,522
Maine
I guess thats good. I mean it is, it will give the best chance to get a healthy Kemba back.....it just makes it sound like he is disinterested (Radio HOT TAKE!) which means at least some invented drama and of course the speculation that "If KEMBA is Saying this then It must be REALLY BAD SCAL!"

What i find funny is that these guys have well documented histories of refusing to rest or take maint days (well discussed from the CHA days), But then something like this happens and he says this. Why say anything. "All we can do is work on it, get rehab and treatment. I dont want to get in the timeline game. Coach and Danny are in the loop. I will be back as soon as I can."

Quotes like this even in good faith and logical do nothing to help the situation.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,504
Kemba is so damn likable

I like what I read there. I'm fine waiting a few months. Then load manage/limit him to no more than 2-3 games/week
yeah, we're all fine waiting. The issue is that -as RSFsn said - when you get to Synvisc anf stem-cell injections for a knee, it means your knee how problems. But hopefully for our sake and the Cs sake, those problems are 5 years off, not 5 months.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,124
Santa Monica
yeah, we're all fine waiting. The issue is that -as RSFsn said - when you get to Synvisc anf stem-cell injections for a knee, it means your knee how problems. But hopefully for our sake and the Cs sake, those problems are 5 years off, not 5 months.
do you think Danny was shopping Kemba pre-GH decision? or post-Jru trade?
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,094
This is just so sub-optimal (shocking, I know). It's going to take him weeks to get ready and then we'll probably be subjected to a bunch of load management and/or setbacks, which will make it difficult for players to get in a rhythm when he's actually in there. I would prefer he just transition into that 6th man role now and see if someone else can emerge as a viable starter. If that doesn't happen, it's TPE time.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,406
around the way
I guess thats good. I mean it is, it will give the best chance to get a healthy Kemba back.....it just makes it sound like he is disinterested (Radio HOT TAKE!) which means at least some invented drama and of course the speculation that "If KEMBA is Saying this then It must be REALLY BAD SCAL!"

What i find funny is that these guys have well documented histories of refusing to rest or take maint days (well discussed from the CHA days), But then something like this happens and he says this. Why say anything. "All we can do is work on it, get rehab and treatment. I dont want to get in the timeline game. Coach and Danny are in the loop. I will be back as soon as I can."

Quotes like this even in good faith and logical do nothing to help the situation.
It makes me feel better. He’s a guy with a known issue with sitting down. I'm fucking grateful to read that he grasps the situation.

Sports talk morons are gonna moron, regardless of what Kemba says or doesn't say.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,504
do you think Danny was shopping Kemba pre-GH decision? or post-Jru trade?
No idea. From the Athletic article in the GH thread, Danny said that he had an idea GH was leaving for months.

I'm sure Danny was doing his due diligence on what he could get for everyone, well probably everyone but JT.

As for Kemba's knee, it's hard to say what is going to happen so I'm just hoping for the best. I think the best synopsis on what's going is from the lovely Gabrielle Reece - professional VB player. Here's a synopsis of her experience (source):

[Interviewer]: I understand you experienced chronic knee pain for close to 15 years, which culminated in a full knee replacement. What treatment options did you opt for before finally turning to surgery?

GR: Quite a few— I stayed very proactive. Traditional physical therapy was a fairly regular practice in my life. I received platelet-rich plasma. I worked with lasers. I did therapy localization. Before you get a knee replacement, particularly earlier in life, you try to exhaust all the options. As you mentioned, I dealt with the discomfort and decreased function for nearly 15 years, but it just got to a place where it really did not function.

[Interviewer]: Considering the nature of your injury, alternative therapies like platelet-rich plasma (PRP) prolotherapy were not as effective?
GR: In my case, the injury was just too advanced. Generally, though, you’ll hear people getting great results with prolotherapy and similar therapies like Synvisc and stem cell. I strongly believe those should be first-line treatment options. I made sure to exhaust all my options, and more importantly, stay proactive. I have tons of friends who received PRP and either got long- term relief or complete restoration. In my case, I had a lot of lateral damage. I was close to being bone on bone, so, I was simply not the right candidate. But like I said, I know a lot of athletes who are very hard on their bodies and see great success with those alternative therapeutic modalities. I’m a big advocate because, look, what’s the worst that can happen? It doesn’t work. PRP doesn’t have any side effects, it’s not cost-prohibitive, and it’s not like you’re taking these radical risks, so I do recommend it.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,406
around the way
No idea. From the Athletic article in the GH thread, Danny said that he had an idea GH was leaving for months.

I'm sure Danny was doing his due diligence on what he could get for everyone, well probably everyone but JT.

As for Kemba's knee, it's hard to say what is going to happen so I'm just hoping for the best. I think the best synopsis on what's going is from the lovely Gabrielle Reece - professional VB player. Here's a synopsis of her experience (source):

[Interviewer]: I understand you experienced chronic knee pain for close to 15 years, which culminated in a full knee replacement. What treatment options did you opt for before finally turning to surgery?
GR: Quite a few— I stayed very proactive. Traditional physical therapy was a fairly regular practice in my life. I received platelet-rich plasma. I worked with lasers. I did therapy localization. Before you get a knee replacement, particularly earlier in life, you try to exhaust all the options. As you mentioned, I dealt with the discomfort and decreased function for nearly 15 years, but it just got to a place where it really did not function.
[Interviewer]: Considering the nature of your injury, alternative therapies like platelet-rich plasma (PRP) prolotherapy were not as effective?
GR: In my case, the injury was just too advanced. Generally, though, you’ll hear people getting great results with prolotherapy and similar therapies like Synvisc and stem cell. I strongly believe those should be first-line treatment options. I made sure to exhaust all my options, and more importantly, stay proactive. I have tons of friends who received PRP and either got long- term relief or complete restoration. In my case, I had a lot of lateral damage. I was close to being bone on bone, so, I was simply not the right candidate. But like I said, I know a lot of athletes who are very hard on their bodies and see great success with those alternative therapeutic modalities. I’m a big advocate because, look, what’s the worst that can happen? It doesn’t work. PRP doesn’t have any side effects, it’s not cost-prohibitive, and it’s not like you’re taking these radical risks, so I do recommend it.
Thanks for that. I don't really know anything about her, and that's pretty thoughtful stuff.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,504
Thanks for that. I don't really know anything about her, and that's pretty thoughtful stuff.
I don't know a ton about her other than she really won the genetic lottery but I was looking for stuff on stem cell therapy in professional athletes and I saw that, I thought it really summed up what other people were trying to say.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,100
I guess thats good. I mean it is, it will give the best chance to get a healthy Kemba back.....it just makes it sound like he is disinterested (Radio HOT TAKE!) which means at least some invented drama and of course the speculation that "If KEMBA is Saying this then It must be REALLY BAD SCAL!"

What i find funny is that these guys have well documented histories of refusing to rest or take maint days (well discussed from the CHA days), But then something like this happens and he says this. Why say anything. "All we can do is work on it, get rehab and treatment. I dont want to get in the timeline game. Coach and Danny are in the loop. I will be back as soon as I can."

Quotes like this even in good faith and logical do nothing to help the situation.
My problem with this take is that these guys aren't robots. The are very few Belichick's in the world that can actually Belichick and make it work. Instead, you have young guys who, in Kemba's case, are looking at a degenerative knee issue that could limit his career. For the first time since he dribbled a basketball as a toddler, the endgame is staring him in the face; for all he knows, his current contract could very well be his last. And as scary as the Kemba situation is to us as fans when we fret over his contract, I can guarantee the situation is 1,000,000,000 times scarier for him.

He is at least self-aware enough that rushing back could send him to an early retirement; cannot say that for all professional athletes. What Felger & Mazz, Shank, and the Twitterverse say is not really his problem right now. And even if he said what you suggest, it wouldn't stop the mediots from nipping at his heels anyway.

Hayward gives an honest answer on why he left Boston and he gets crucified for it. And now we're blaming Kemba for saying something that will get talk radio in a lather. We need to stop holding these guys to a standard that is next to impossible for anyone not named Bill to meet (and even Bill has had his moments recently).
 

bakahump

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 8, 2001
7,522
Maine
I agree on some Levels @lexrageorge

But on others... They have multiple trained and educated people (in this sort of thing) who could help him craft a nondescript as low incendiary response as possible.

Does it matter what Kyle Draper really says? Well not in the universe per say....but he holds sway over alot of "Less enlightened fans" then you would see here for example. And their attitude can impact the team (Cheering/booing/public interactions with Kemba). We have seen 100s of times reports have poisoned a player/team/community relationship.

Is this going to go there? Hopefully and probably not. But to pretend that "What Draper or Forsburg says doesnt matter" is SOSH Hubris that we are often guilty of.

My other point was badly stated but touched on one of yours. Kemba was "bullet proof". He used to refuse any kind of smart rest. And now...he realizes he isnt. Thats sad but it also a bit odd to me that only now he realizes a rest game here or there over the last 10 years could prolong his career on the backend. So now he embraces the idea.

Of course...that drive is probably why he is a NBA all star and I am typing on a message board.

Look I love Kemba. And I want him to have a successful career and contract with the Celtics and good quality of life after to enjoy his millions. But It is strange to me that only now he realizes he has a shelf life and that he should be smart when taking care of the only asset that matters.
 
Last edited:

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,622
I’m going to look on the bright side. This gives Brad an excuse to use Kemba as a volume scorer off the bench late in games.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,100
I agree on some Levels @lexrageorge

But on others... They have multiple trained and educated people (in this sort of thing) who could help him craft a nondescript as low incendiary response as possible.

Does it matter what Kyle Draper really says? Well not in the universe per say....but he holds sway over alot of "Less enlightened fans" then you would see here for example. And their attitude can impact the team (Cheering/booing/public interactions with Kemba). We have seen 100s of times reports have poisoned a player/team/community relationship.

Is this going to go there? Hopefully and probably not. But to pretend that "What Draper or Forsburg says doesnt matter" is SOSH Hubris that we are often guilty of.

My other point was badly stated but touched on one of yours. Kemba was "bullet proof". He used to refuse any kind of smart rest. And now...he realizes he isnt. Thats sad but it also a bit odd to me that only now he realizes a rest game here or there over the last 10 years could prolong his career on the backend. So now he embraces the idea.

Of course...that drive is probably why he is a NBA all star and I am typing on a message board.

Look I love Kemba. And I want him to have a successful career and contract with the Celtics and good quality of life after to enjoy his millions. But It is strange to me that only now he realizes he has a shelf life and that he should be smart when taking care of the only asset that matters.
If you read the entire interview, you will see that his comments are being taken way out of context in this thread. There was literally nothing that would indicate a negative attitude in his interview, unless you focus entirely on this one comment about waiting to be ready to play.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
51,330
Good news. PP lets them take things as slow as needed, but the best version of the roster is still one with Kemba active. Just don’t rush it.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,001
Oh wow, that's sooner than I expected. Really really hope they are insanely cautious with him the next couple years. They have routes to contention even with Kemba as a sunk cost, but obviously those open up a ton more if he can be himself on even ~20-25 mins/game.

One thing I'd like to see when he's back is getting him off-ball more, with Smart/PP/Tatum/Brown initiating. Kemba has extremely high off-ball gravity, and it also saves his knees from those vicious start/stops.
 

Imbricus

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 26, 2017
4,813
Oh wow, that's sooner than I expected. Really really hope they are insanely cautious with him the next couple years.
Totally agree. Personally, I'd rather that they give him another month. Knee injuries are very tricky, and if he has arthritis starting to set up, better to ease him back really slowly.
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
27,958
Saskatoon Canada
Observations:
+
seems to have his burts, he blew by the defender a lot
as always playing hard, encouraging teammates

-
terrible on D, in the wrong place getting beat etc.
Very Rusty
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,001
I had mentally written Kemba off as a totally sunk cost, but the speed of the return and the burst he had are reeling me back in.......

Hopefully the team can stay committed to aggressively managing his minutes for the next few years.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,850
And reports are that Kemba was pain-free after the game, which is the most important part.
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,622
We are always going to be speculating without the inside scoop on how his knee really looks, but I definitely wouldn't put Kemba into definite sunk cost territory (yet). He is not that far removed from being really good.

Arthritis sucks and it's certainly possible he never regains his previous form, but it's by no means assured in my mind. Yesterday was honestly a very good step in the right direction, he sucked but looked quick and athletic to me.

Cartilage issues and arthritis can sometimes be managed well in the short term, depending on the severity. You definitely get more worried the longer he goes without returning to his previous form, but Kemba was really good less than a year ago so I think there is still hope for him.

Guys like Blake Griffin on the wrong wide of 30 and haven't been any good for close to 2 years... that's when you get to true sunk cost territory.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,001
We are always going to be speculating without the inside scoop on how his knee really looks, but I definitely wouldn't put Kemba into definite sunk cost territory (yet). He is not that far removed from being really good.

Arthritis sucks and it's certainly possible he never regains his previous form, but it's by no means assured in my mind. Yesterday was honestly a very good step in the right direction, he sucked but looked quick and athletic to me.

Cartilage issues and arthritis can sometimes be managed well in the short term, depending on the severity. You definitely get more worried the longer he goes without returning to his previous form, but Kemba was really good less than a year ago so I think there is still hope for him.

Guys like Blake Griffin on the wrong wide of 30 and haven't been any good for close to 2 years... that's when you get to true sunk cost territory.
So seeing him able to come out and still be explosive must be extremely positive, no?

Also, how long can these issues be managed for generally, before it breaks down? Asking for a favorite team of mine that's on the hook for ~3 more years.
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,622
So seeing him able to come out and still be explosive must be extremely positive, no?

Also, how long can these issues be managed for generally, before it breaks down? Asking for a favorite team of mine that's on the hook for ~3 more years.

Definitely a positive, though we will want to see it sustained and see it turn into his previous level of production before we get too excited.

Impossible to say how long without more info on the severity. In a very general sense, a ton of NBA players manage fine with some degree of cartilage damage and arthritis. By the time these guys are 30 they often have pretty significant wear and tear, especially if they ever tore their ACL and/or meniscus in the past.

Given how symptomatic he has been and all the injections they have tried, it's a safe bet Kemba's knee is worse than average for the NBA. But very hard to predict, even his doctors with way more knowledge than us likely don't know how things will go.

I think Danny had a quote earlier in the season thats spot on.. "this year will tell us a lot". If he's in and out of the lineup all season, it's constantly flaring up, and never has any sustained success.... then we are probably looking at a 2 year sunk cost.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,001
Early days and all, but he's looking better than he has at really any point as a Celtic. Just need PP back to keep the miles off...
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
9,193
San Francisco
It really makes me wonder what the difference was between the three month October - January layoff and the four month March - July break that he looks so much better now. Did they totally change his rehab plan?
 

bakahump

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 8, 2001
7,522
Maine
Antler powder? Regardless who cares.

As long as we can get PP back to take some backup minutes and slot him(Kemba) in as the "Starting/finishing Super Sub" (First Guy to sit 5 mins in or something, then managed so he is available for the last 5-7) and then bring him back to score when Jaylen and Or Tatum Rest.
 
Last edited:

amarshal2

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 25, 2005
4,913
It really makes me wonder what the difference was between the three month October - January layoff and the four month March - July break that he looks so much better now. Did they totally change his rehab plan?
They did a stem cell procedure. IANAD -- what I remember them saying about it was that most of the time it doesn't work but 30-40% of the time the player sees dramatic improvement so it was worth a shot.

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2020/12/02/nba-boston-celtics-kemba-knee-details-regenokine-what-is/
This article is vague but gives a more believable range of outcomes from minor boost to dramatic improvement. Who knows.
 

ifmanis5

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2007
63,777
Rotten Apple
Hate to say this but Kemba has to go. This is an emergency. Can't have the prime of the Jays being saddled with this guy who is either hurt or can't raise his level against playoff teams. I don't know how it's possible with his contact and health status but sell at a loss if at all possible.
 

Mystic Merlin

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 21, 2007
46,772
Hartford, CT
If his continued presence on the roster is an ‘emergency’ then it is gonna be a long one because who would trade for him right now? And if they try to market him it will probably make teams even more suspicious about his health. I don’t see how they’d get back anything but a contract just as bad, or a better contract but a worse player. Maybe if they attach picks to him, but what would that accomplish? They’ll lose the salary slot.

I do not think he is going anywhere this season. He will have to play his way out of it while managing to stay on the court if they want value from him. If it isn’t working out in a month or so after Pritchard returns to full minutes, then I think the most likely outcome is they shelve him.
 

bigq

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,088
Cross posting from the game thread.
teddykgb said:
The problem with Kemba isn’t the shooting. It’s that when the game got close late Schroeder was able to pick him up wherever he wanted and Kemba couldn’t get free at all. Really concerning how they were able to just jam everything up
Yeah last night gave me flashbacks to last season’s playoff run. If Kemba can’t make his shots he is a big net negative because he sucks on defense and gets picked on mercilessly. LA’s guards didn’t put up big numbers last night but it seemed like Kemba was getting killed on switches. I think Kemba has not been fully healthy for a long time and I wonder whether he ever will be.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,124
Santa Monica
Hate to say this but Kemba has to go. This is an emergency. Can't have the prime of the Jays being saddled with this guy who is either hurt or can't raise his level against playoff teams. I don't know how it's possible with his contact and health status but sell at a loss if at all possible.
yea, many of us wanted Kemba gone and Hayward kept in the offseason but I doubt Danny had any takers. Even the Knicks with new mgmt won't be bailing the C's out of that deal.

Brad needs to find his spots with KW. Pulling him early in Q1 and having Kemba play big minutes against the opponents' 2nd units may be a good way to hide his defense (& rebuild his value).
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,100
Could it be that he's still trying to get his timing back after having basically done nothing for several months?
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
14,429
This dude has had giant balls his whole career. What the fuck happened to him when he got to Boston?
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
14,429
He hangs 18.3ppg the last 4 games then hangs a 1-11 against the Lakers. He was atrocious in the playoffs last season. Hes come up incredibly small in big situations the last few seasons. Its bizarre and his ability to produce against lower tier teams but not in big moments cant be attributed to his knee.
 

A Bad Man

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2016
1,050
He hangs 18.3ppg the last 4 games then hangs a 1-11 against the Lakers. He was atrocious in the playoffs last season. Hes come up incredibly small in big situations the last few seasons. Its bizarre and his ability to produce against lower tier teams but not in big moments cant be attributed to his knee.
I actually think it makes a lot of sense. Both playing through and recovering from injuries is highly psychological.
 

shoelace

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 24, 2019
268
Knee or no, he gets shut down by good teams. I don't see that changing.
I'm not sure how much injury influenced his performance during the playoffs, but the Raptors did out Anunoby on him. This is part of the reason he was shut down, because he had a harder time getting his shot off against longer defenders. But, even if he plays like shit, the fact that he was demanding that kind of attention is good for the rest of the offense.

He's looked like his old self in moments this season since coming back and then looked totally gassed. He looked great in the first half against Philly in the first game and then just lost his touch. I think he's still building back up his conditioning. I don't see any indication that his performance is injury related. If he looks like this at the end of the season I'll be concerned.
 
Last edited:

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,001
Could it be that he's still trying to get his timing back after having basically done nothing for several months?
1. Yes
2. The goal of getting his timing back should be to rehabilitate his value and move on from the deal.

The Jays are too fucking good to waste. I'm not a huge Smart guy, but Tatum+Brown+Smart is a really fucking good core. They need to go all-in at some point, and pay some assets to get out of Walker's deal if that's holding them back.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,001
I'm not sure how much injury influenced his performance during the playoffs, but the Raptors did out Anunoby on him. This is part of the reason he was shut down, because he and a harder time getting his shot off against longer defenders. But, even if he plays like shit, the fact that he was demanding that kind of attention is good for the rest of the offense.
...
Yeah, this is the problem. He's not getting paid $35M/year to be neutralized whenever the other team has a guy with long arms who can defend a little.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
He hangs 18.3ppg the last 4 games then hangs a 1-11 against the Lakers. He was atrocious in the playoffs last season. Hes come up incredibly small in big situations the last few seasons. Its bizarre and his ability to produce against lower tier teams but not in big moments cant be attributed to his knee.
He’s a 6-foot guard on the wrong side of 30 who relies on his quickness to create separation for his jumper. The wear and tear of having to give max effort for the past decade plus eventually catches up to these guys right about this time and they lose a step. These guys margins are so thin to begin with they cannot afford to lose a step.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
6,415
So, for the folks that want to dump him, he's now one of the worst contracts in the league. That means the Celtics are taking back another terrible contract for him, most likely. So, preliminary list off the top of my head:

Griffin
Wall
Westbrook (with what they gave up for him, they'd want extra on top of Kemba)
Love


Does this team look any better with any of those guys in place of Kemba?