Carry on my Hayward Son: Gordon to Charlotte for 4 years, $120M

benhogan

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The leak doesn’t make sense. Turner and a first doesn’t send out enough salary. Indy had to be including another player, which gets us back to what the sticking point was. The deal would’ve needed to be Turner, McDermott, and a first, but I don’t think Ainge had any interest in McDermott, so to get the deal to Turner and a first they’d need a team willing to take McDermott into cap room, which probably involves another first round pick from Indy or changing McDermott for a player Boston actually wanted. And that’s where we know the deal broke down.
IDK. McDermott at 1yr for $7.3MM is ok....finding a bid for guys shooting 43% from 3 with little D doesn't seem tricky (see Bertans/Joe Harris)

I have to believe Myles Turner 3yrs at $54MM was the sticking point
 

Jimbodandy

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Pritchard laid an egg. This is the second horeshit leak in the last few days, and they're both transparent AF. Pritch may as well complain that his name isn't on the piece as co-writer.
 

nighthob

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The leak doesn’t make sense. Turner and a first doesn’t send out enough salary. Indy had to be including another player, which gets us back to what the sticking point was. The deal would’ve needed to be Turner, McDermott, and a first, but I don’t think Ainge had any interest in McDermott, so to get the deal to Turner and a first they’d need a team willing to take McDermott into cap room, which probably involves another first round pick from Indy or changing McDermott for a player Boston actually wanted. And that’s where we know the deal broke down.
The scuttlebutt the first time we discussed this was that Boston called around the league to see if anyone had any interest in Turner and no one did. So what killed the deal was Pritchard demanding that Boston give him Hayward at the price he needed to take care of Indiana’s luxury tax position and cleaning up the Pacers’ long term payroll issues and thinking that the privilege of paying Turner double the going rate for his skill set was enough returning value.

And, to be brutally frank, I don’t believe that Pritchard was offering a first round pick for a moment. Unless it was a top 28 protected pick that turned into a Five Guys gift certificate when it didn’t convey. This is Pritchard trying to blame someone else for fucking the poodle when the hometown hero was signed, sealed, and delivered. But he missed it by that much.
 

Cellar-Door

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The scuttlebutt the first time we discussed this was that Boston called around the league to see if anyone had any interest in Turner and no one did. So what killed the deal was Pritchard demanding that Boston give him Hayward at the price he needed to take care of Indiana’s luxury tax position and cleaning up the Pacers’ long term payroll issues and thinking that the privilege of paying Turner double the going rate for his skill set was enough returning value.

And, to be brutally frank, I don’t believe that Pritchard was offering a first round pick for a moment. Unless it was a top 28 protected pick that turned into a Five Guys gift certificate when it didn’t convey. This is Pritchard trying to blame someone else for fucking the poodle when the hometown hero was signed, sealed, and delivered. But he missed it by that much.
I bet it was a top 25 protected that turned into seconds. But yeah from the Zach Lowe podcast mention, sounds like the Celtics wanted to flip Turner and were told basically... "yeah we won't give you anything for him" around the league. Which makes sense in a way, because if there was someone willing to pay value for him, Indy would just make that deal to get expirings and picks, send a pick and expirings to the Celtics with maybe one of their young cheap guys and call it a day.
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

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Pritchard laid an egg. This is the second horeshit leak in the last few days, and they're both transparent AF. Pritch may as well complain that his name isn't on the piece as co-writer.
I think the disconnect is that it appears neither Ainge nor the rest of the NBA views Miles Turner at $20m/year as an asset.

So Pritchard was looking to move something with negative value, but the Pacers and their fans still think of Turner as an up-and-coming big man with a ton of promise. So if the Celtics were going to lose GH either way, why would the Celtics take on a bad contract? Better to let him got for nothing, or at least get the TPE from the Hornets (or Knicks or whomever).

Pritchard needed to staple a real asset to that Turner contract to make it palatable. Jeremy Lamb? Come on.

The story about a "first round pick" in the Indy press is for sure ass-covering. The Pacers' 2020 pick was already in the Brogdon trade. Their 2021 first rounder? Even unprotected, probably not worth taking on that Turner contract albatross -- with GH added to the Indy lineup that 2021 pick might be in the mid-high 20s.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Indiana didn't really have a piece to add to the deal unless they wanted to give up Warren, who is probably better than Hayward and on one of the best contracts in the league.

I don't think Oladipo was ever an option. Moving him for Hayward doesn't solve the Turner/Sabonis problem.

Aaron Holiday is a nice player but not nice enough. As far as picks, they'd be in the back half of the 1st round and I don't think the C's really need more rookies next year, or that the picks would have much trade value. I think picks in general are overrated unless they are in the lottery or the team is rebuilding and has the roster spots. The way the C's are currently build, they really don't.

For a pick, I'd guess the C's would want it to be top half of the 1st round. For a player, I think they'd want a young player who is NBA ready but still has upside. Someone kinda like Luke Kennard. Indiana has neither unless you think very highly of Holiday.

Maybe Turner, Holiday, a 1st and filler but I'm not sure a 3 for 1 is the type of moves the C"s should be making unless they are the ones moving 3 players.

For the record, I would have done Turner + McDermott for Hayward over nothing, but the C's got something.


edit: I'm assuming most people would be ok with a Turner + Kennard for Hayward in a world where Kennard was on the Pacers but maybe not. That deal probably means no TT or Teague.
 
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E5 Yaz

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Sorry if this is somewhere in the thread, but is there a hard deadline they're up against to get this done?
 

Cesar Crespo

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I don’t think Kennard is that level of asset.
Maybe not. I could see it either way. He's close to 25 so how much more upside he has is questionable. I couldn't think of someone else off the top of my head. It's hard to find players that fit the bill because most teams are going to keep their young players that are performing and I doubt the C's would want to gamble on Mailk Monk or Mo Bamba, but at the same time aren't going to acquire Jaren Jackson.

edit: well, maybe Mo Bamba. Didn't realize he showed some promise from 3 this year.
 

lexrageorge

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Sorry if this is somewhere in the thread, but is there a hard deadline they're up against to get this done?
Sign-and-trades must be completed prior to the start of the regular season, as S&T's are not allowed once the season begins.

Then there is the 12/1 date for the start of training camp, and the 12/11 date for the start of pre-season games. I would not expect Charlotte to wait much past 12/1, and certainly not past 12/11.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Sign-and-trades must be completed prior to the start of the regular season, as S&T's are not allowed once the season begins.

Then there is the 12/1 date for the start of training camp, and the 12/11 date for the start of pre-season games. I would not expect Charlotte to wait much past 12/1, and certainly not past 12/11.
do you know how Green's contract works? They don't have to decide until February. So if he makes the team, his contract still isn't guaranteed?
 

lexrageorge

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do you know how Green's contract works? They don't have to decide until February. So if he makes the team, his contract still isn't guaranteed?
Green's base salary is not-guaranteed. However, all NBA contracts (except 10-day contracts) become guaranteed for the remainder of the season on "cut down day". Normally, the cut down day is 1/10; this season, it is 2/27, with the player needing to be placed on waivers 3 days prior (or 2/24).

Making the team on opening day by itself will not guarantee Green's salary.
 

E5 Yaz

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Sign-and-trades must be completed prior to the start of the regular season, as S&T's are not allowed once the season begins.

Then there is the 12/1 date for the start of training camp, and the 12/11 date for the start of pre-season games. I would not expect Charlotte to wait much past 12/1, and certainly not past 12/11.
Thank you
 

lexrageorge

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Sign-and-trades must be completed prior to the start of the regular season, as S&T's are not allowed once the season begins.

Then there is the 12/1 date for the start of training camp, and the 12/11 date for the start of pre-season games. I would not expect Charlotte to wait much past 12/1, and certainly not past 12/11.
Thank you
I forgot to add that there is also a deadline for Charlotte to stretch Batum, which they have to do if they are unable to trade him prior to signing Hayward. Normally, that deadline is 8/31. That deadline is 12/9, which therefore represents the hard deadline for all of this to happen.
 

DJnVa

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Hornets waiving Batum per Shams.

Doesn't kill the S&T obviously, but still...
 

lexrageorge

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Hornets waiving Batum per Shams.

Doesn't kill the S&T obviously, but still...
Charlotte would still benefit from getting a couple of second rounders from the C's. Hopefully there is enough good will between Ainge and the Hornets to work something out.
 

lovegtm

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Hornets waiving Batum per Shams.

Doesn't kill the S&T obviously, but still...
Just means OKC doesn’t want 2 2nds to take Batum, and no one wants to give value for Rozier/Zeller.

Charlotte likely ends up agreeing to take a small asset from Boston to give the TPE.
 

lovegtm

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Charlotte would still benefit from getting a couple of second rounders from the C's. Hopefully there is enough good will between Ainge and the Hornets to work something out.
If there’s not good will, that’s bs. Ainge helped them out with Rozier literally one year ago.
 

lovegtm

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This is probably the best Hayward outcome, given the teams he was interested in.
 

lovegtm

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It's going to be fun having a year where almost every fake trade works without checking.
 

the moops

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I don't get why CHA does this. Yes, last year, BOS did something similar in signing and trading Rozier. But creating a huge TPE for a championship contender is far different than giving a smaller one to the lowly Hornets
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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Hollinger noted that by stretching Batum, Charlotte had the space to front-loaded Hayward’s deal with 5% decreases instead increases, which would have generated an even larger TPE ($32.5 million) and made things easier for Charlotte going forward with lower cap numbers. Any reason they didn’t want to do that?
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/johnhollinger/status/1333154172586299398
Escrow is bigger this year so contracts are imaginary numbers. In future years they may be real numbers. Hayward probably wanted the bigger numbers in the future.
 

mostman

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I don't get why CHA does this. Yes, last year, BOS did something similar in signing and trading Rozier. But creating a huge TPE for a championship contender is far different than giving a smaller one to the lowly Hornets
I’m pretty sure that the teams help each other here. At some point, everyone will need it.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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I hope it's worth the two picks. Last time Danny had a big exemption (Hayward injury) he didn't get anything for it, and that could have been used for a free agent, not just in a trade like this.
 

Average Game James

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I hope it's worth the two picks. Last time Danny had a big exemption (Hayward injury) he didn't get anything for it, and that could have been used for a free agent, not just in a trade like this.
The disabled player exception is far more limiting. Was only $9 million and could not be used for more than one year (e.g. could only sign a street FA or trade for a player on an expiring deal). Nothing may come of the TPE, of course, but opens up a lot more options.
 

Mooch

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The first guy that comes to mind to use the TPE to acquire is Aldridge. If Danny could pull that off, it would be a hell of an upgrade.
 

mcpickl

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I don't get why CHA does this. Yes, last year, BOS did something similar in signing and trading Rozier. But creating a huge TPE for a championship contender is far different than giving a smaller one to the lowly Hornets
Because they get two free second round picks?
 

benhogan

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The first guy that comes to mind to use the TPE to acquire is Aldridge. If Danny could pull that off, it would be a hell of an upgrade.
I'd expect they would use some of it this season (stay under the luxury cap) and use the rest next offseason.

unless they get blown away by a Fertitta yard sale