Finding some gold on twitter
View: https://twitter.com/SimonSperling/status/1312958520958939136?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/SimonSperling/status/1312958520958939136?s=20
The enemy of the Lakers is my friend. The NBA finals thread.
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Saw this headline on the ESPN ticker and instantly thought "lol, McMenamin."
LeBron James: Know from experience to stay 'on edge' and 'locked in'
Imagine being paid to lick the King's boots.
LeBron James: Know from experience to stay 'on edge' and 'locked in'
Imagine being paid to lick the King's boots.
I see that in the 4th quarter of a 5 point game that could either essentially clinch a title for the lakers or make it a brand new series the lakers were in the bonus before they'd even been called for a single foul and ended up +10 at the ft line for the quarter. Some things never change.
Spoils go to the aggressor. I don’t recall a single penetration that was even a questionable call when LA attacked. If anything the refs were favoring the Heat on some calls with Herro’s shot over the backboard they tried calling off LeBron. Overall, I hardly even noticed them which is a generally great sign for how well they worked that night.
I wouldn’t count the Heat our from winning G6.......they keep coming at you. They impressed the hell out of me tonight in a loss against a focused Laker team more than Sunday’s win when LA was coasting.
The difference tonight was the Lakers defense. Miami has to work hard to get good looks as we all know and the Lakers size, length and athleticism had the Heat fighting harder than usual. They really miss having Dragic as a playmaker. Without him they are second round gritty rather than a true finals team imo.
Super teams have existed forever - not many champions have not had two top 10'ish players in the league.
LAL - Magic, Kareem
BOS - Bird, McHale
HOU - Hakeem, Horry
CHI - Jordan, Pippen
SAS - Duncan, Robinson
LAL - Shaq, Kobe
BOS - Garnett, Pierce
MIA - Lebron, Wade
GSW - Steph, Green
CLE - Lebron, Kyrie
GSW - Steph, Durant
LAL - Lebron, Davis
No NBA player has consistently used his individual star power to manipulate his supporting cast like LeBron. He has consistently leveraged his contract and god-tier image as the best player in basketball to always ensure that he has close to the optimal supporting cast, hopping around from team to team to ensure that he always has the best chance at winning wherever he goes. He fucked up last season going to the Lakers tire fire, but that ended up working out when he was able to get the Lakers to trade away their entire future to bring in Davis. His jump to Miami proved to be a trendsetter for other players in the league, most notably Durant, so now it does not feel unusual that he has bounced around as much as he has, when in previous generations it was unheard of for non-Wilt superstars.
Some people will argue that kind of exertion of star power is something that makes LeBron great; others will argue that it cheapens his accomplishments when compared to other stars who had more organic success because he never "stuck it out" in a bad situation. I think both arguments are valid.
Some people will argue that kind of exertion of star power is something that makes LeBron great; others will argue that it cheapens his accomplishments when compared to other stars who had more organic success because he never "stuck it out" in a bad situation. I think both arguments are valid.
AD is his supporting cast. It's bizarre to say that LeBron is supposed to win every title single-handedly -- but not the Celtics, the Warriors, the Clippers, the....etc etc. If you go back and read the Lakers thread post-AD trade you'll see a lot of people saying the team had no depth. Hell, going into the playoffs it was all about the Clippers having such a great supporting cast around their 2 stars -- not just random commentators, but 538 etc didn't see the Lakers as any sort of team in which LeBron had hand picked a bunch of stars. KCP and Caruso and Morris and Howard are no one's idea of the sort of supporting cast that shows LeBron with some sort of unique ability to "manipulate" or "leverage" his status.
The idea that anything cheapens his accomplishments is absurd hating.
The idea that anything cheapens his accomplishments is absurd hating.
I perhaps was not clear in my post, but I was comparing LeBron's accomplishments to players from prior eras. LeBron leveraging his status as the game's best player has allowed him to manipulate his supporting cast in a way that no other, pre-LeBron NBA superstar has ever been able to do. Since left Cleveland in 2010, he has successfully convinced the franchise he is playing for at each stop to go all-in on building a championship team, making sure that each team he goes too will have the proper supporting cast in a way that no player has ever done before. He has signed short-term deals to ensure that he always has leverage over the franchise, so that he could make sure that if a situation wasn't working out, he could split to a better location. Which he has done on multiple occasions. On top of that, because of his enormous influence on players of his generation (and the generation below him) he has a powerful sway with those players, able to convince them to jump ship or force a trade in order to join up with him.
LeBron has succeeded in the NBA playing under a different set of rules than players of a prior generation. Player movement and the movement of star players in particular, has become so rapid since LeBron left for Miami that when LeBron left Miami for Clevleand, and then Cleveland to LA, it felt normal, even though it would have been almost unheard of in prior generations. Now, rationale people can think that is a point in LeBron's favor; he has strategically positioned himself that put him always in an optimal position to win. Michael Jordan probably could have done what LeBron has done, bounce around the league to make sure he was always in the best position to win, but he didn't do that. LeBron blazed that trail. At the same time, you could also make a rational argument that you can't compare LeBron to Jordan, or Russell, or Bird or Magic or Duncan, because those guys won with the same franchise for their entire careers. Obviously there is the caveat that LeBron in Cleveland was a much worse situation than Jordan in Chicago, Russell in Boston, etc.
The fact a favored franchise can be run as badly as a franchise can be run, can simply load up with stars that want to play with them based of the prestige ruins a league. The NBA is like Soviet hockey and the Lakers are the red Army team. Since they went to LA, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq (free agent turned down same offer), Davis, among other non generational big men and stars have forced teams to trade them to the Lakers, not to mention the free agents. It is so much worse than Yankees, in terms of unfair advantages. It is almost impossible to not be a championship contender. All that stopped them recently, was Kobe making the team his personal men's league team for 5 years and Magic being clueless. Short of when a revered icon is sabotaging them the Lakers should win the title half the time.
The Lakers and Lebron lucked out a little bit. Anthony Davis was the only young star that wanted to play sidekick to Lebron.
A little bit? They had the #2 pick in the 2016 and 2017 drafts and took Brandon Ingram over Jaylen and Lonzo freaking Ball over Tatum. Both guys aren’t useless but their scouting team basically went 0-2 on 2 high profile picks. They were staring down years and years of garbage teams.
And then what happens? LeBron gets bored in Cleveland for the 2nd time and gets AD to force his way there in return for those 2 mediocrities.
Now let’s compare to Ainge. Ainge swindles the Nets to get all those picks and absolutely nails the picks. He literally couldn’t have done better. He clears enough cap space to land Hayward...who promptly breaks his leg in horrific fashion. Undeterred, he finds a bargain big man in Theis, swaps out Kyrie for Kemba, who proceeds to have knee problems in a year where the team had a real shot of winning it all.
The Lakers are the spoiled brats who get into a drunk driving accident but get out of it because their dad knows the judge. Every other team has to work so much harder to make it happen. There is nothing even remotely impressive about what LA has done recently.
I don't usually do this here... but
Thing is, I love it too. If we could just get some bitching about Kendrick Perkins hurting his knee, maybe a little bit about McHale's feet and a splash of "the Minnesota titles!!" it would really complete the moment for me.
A couple quibbles: I'll take the Ingram over Jalen Brown pick every day of the week from the long term view. Ingram is a year younger and is already a better scorer and passer who is trending to be a much better offensive player who's defense is not on Brown's level, but he has improved quite a bit on the defensive side of the ball and is trending upwards.
Second, there was a reason Kemba was available, his health concerns were priced in risk, not bad luck.
Third, "finding bargain big men".... I know a team that did really well at that this year and is a game away from winning a title because of it.
Thing is, I love it too. If we could just get some bitching about Kendrick Perkins hurting his knee, maybe a little bit about McHale's feet and a splash of "the Minnesota titles!!" it would really complete the moment for me.
A couple quibbles: I'll take the Ingram over Jalen Brown pick every day of the week from the long term view. Ingram is a year younger and is already a better scorer and passer who is trending to be a much better offensive player who's defense is not on Brown's level, but he has improved quite a bit on the defensive side of the ball and is trending upwards.
Second, there was a reason Kemba was available, his health concerns were priced in risk, not bad luck.
Third, "finding bargain big men".... I know a team that did really well at that this year and is a game away from winning a title because of it.
The lack of Jim Buss slander in this rant is really disappointing. We're three years removed from Luol Deng and Timofey Mosgov being the best thing the Lakers could drag in from a pretty stacked free agency summer.
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It's the one league where the quality of the GM or of the player development program means absolutely nothing.
Edit: Speaking in the present of course. Red Auerbach and Jerry West of course played the rest of the league for fools.
What sour grapes woe is us nonsense.
We're one year removed from Bob Myers bossing the league for five years and building one of the best 3-4 teams ever out of a perennial loser from nothing higher than a couple number 7 picks and the luck / wisdom to strike while the iron was hot in the summer where the PA & league fucked up the salary cap.
This is a league where a team with a history of nothing but losing from the third biggest market in Texas can hire an all time great coach / GM and then win five titles over 20 years and be a perennial top 5-6 team during that entire stretch.
Your argument to the super teams is to list...super teams? Seriously?
Golden state and San Antonio were super teams. Each had at least 3 hall of famers during their runs.
How did they build those super teams? Through quality GM work and player development, not just the allure of LA or Miami.
I was responding to this post:
Quality of GM and player development programs on the teams that drafted Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobli, and Kawhi Leonard, all Hall of Famers picked #7 or lower, meant everything to the Warriors and Spurs.
Quality GM work also means making smart trades for key players, which put the 19 Raptors (Kawhi), 11 Mavs (Kidd, Terry, Marion &Chandler), 15 Warriors (Bogut), 04 Pistons (Rasheed, Chauncey & Wallace), 06 Heat (Shaq, to go with #5 pick DWade), 09 & 10 Lakers (Gasol) and 08 Celtics (Allen & KG) over the top on their way to titles. The NBA rewards quality GM work and player development programs more than it does just having a city with nice clubs and beaches or superstar(s) that other players want to play with to attract Free Agents.
The Spurs and Warriors are exactly the types of teams who should be celebrated, not the 2020 Lakers. The Spurs found absolute gems in Parker/Manu and built a great culture that basically Patriots'd the league for 2 decades. Guys who were meh players came in there and were vital cogs to championship teams. The Warriors absolutely nailed 3 straight draft picks in Curry, Klay, and Draymond and then were able to clear the cap space to sign KD. But KD doesn't sign there if they hadn't already built such a great foundation. They deserved the title that they "bought" with him.
I have nothing but 2009 Yankees thoughts for the 2020 Lakers. Yes, they're the best and yes they're winning it all but there's nothing impressive about what they did. LeBron came there because of the allure of LA. AD forced his way in there. And they found some decent role players to chase some rings. This is not much different than the 2008 Yankees just going out and getting the top SP in his prime and a top bat in Teixeira. Sure, you still have to win it so props there but give the Port Cellar a LeBron/AD starting point and we're bringing a title home too.
Well, the 2020 Lakers are not champs yet, so, TBD on whether we can compare them on the other teams mentioned above.
I happen to think that Jeannie did a smart thing in listening to Phil and hiring Vogel and deserves credit for that. She is still one of the better owners when she is unencumbered by her massively stupid fuck up brothers. I think it is hilarious that Frank won GM of the year while Pelinka finished 7th, because Pelinka did a very good job putting together the pieces around AD (who he paid a fair price for, compared to the Paul George heist) & LeBron with limited flexibility. Vogel & staff did an excellent job of recognizing that the best way to maximize this team that the media "experts" (I'm not asking the Port Cellar to be rational about the Lakers) loved to pick doom for was to play big when the league was focused on going small and emphasize defense.
As a Laker fan, you guys are on to something, a LeBron title wouldn't feel as great as a Kobe or Magic title, you can't love a mercenary who is using you to provide an opportunity to build his brand and raise his kids where he wants as much as you do the homegrown stars who stay loyal to you for decades, but it would be like eating bad pizza or ice cream, still pretty damn great.
I happen to think that Jeannie did a smart thing in listening to Phil and hiring Vogel and deserves credit for that. She is still one of the better owners when she is unencumbered by her massively stupid fuck up brothers. I think it is hilarious that Frank won GM of the year while Pelinka finished 7th, because Pelinka did a very good job putting together the pieces around AD (who he paid a fair price for, compared to the Paul George heist) & LeBron with limited flexibility. Vogel & staff did an excellent job of recognizing that the best way to maximize this team that the media "experts" (I'm not asking the Port Cellar to be rational about the Lakers) loved to pick doom for was to play big when the league was focused on going small and emphasize defense.
As a Laker fan, you guys are on to something, a LeBron title wouldn't feel as great as a Kobe or Magic title, you can't love a mercenary who is using you to provide an opportunity to build his brand and raise his kids where he wants as much as you do the homegrown stars who stay loyal to you for decades, but it would be like eating bad pizza or ice cream, still pretty damn great.
Does finishing the season in a bubble after a 4 month hiatus change your feelings about a prospective championship? I don't think I would have cared nearly as much if the Celts or Bruins won it all. It doesn't feel as legitimate without the travel, home courts, fans, etc.
Can something be an asterisk and a special achievement at the same time? I think this situation is both. It will be interesting to see how we talk about this season in 5 or 10 years.
Adding a couple examples:
- The Clips were clearly a team affected by the bubble. I like to think of it as confirmation of their inherent lack of toughness and Clipperdom, but I do not think they go out in the second round in a normal season. They either implode entirely in round 1 or make the WCF.
- The Lakers beating Denver in 5 was purely a bubble thing to me. They would be a much tougher out with home games. Of course, the same logic has to apply to the Bucks, losing the home court advantage they earned probably hurt them more than anyone.
-That said, winning in the bubble takes a special type of toughness and, more importantly, team leadership and unity, that I think is nice to see rewarded. I don't think it is a coincidence that the four conference finals teams were probably the four teams you would pick for having most unity or veteran / coaching leadership, if you can try to measure such things. Obviously Toronto is an exception to this, but I think their talent delta is pretty severe compared to the four conference finalists.
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What is this heist you speak of?
SGA, Galinari, 5 first round picks, and 2 pick swaps
vs
Ingram, Ball, Hart, 3 first round picks, 1 pick swap
Oh, they're champions alright. NO chance they lose 3 straight to Miami. None. Zip. Zero. Not happening...
Jokes aside, if I were a Lakers fan, I would view this title the same as a Duke or UK fan who won it all because they signed the top 4 McDonald's AAs. The title still counts but won't have a special place in most fans' hearts like 2000 or 2010. In any event, as a fan, who really cares if people discount your titles. To quote the esteemed Herm Edwards, you play...to win...the game. And the Lakers will have done just that. And when you're the Lakers, Yankees, Patriots, etc., you don't really care about style points. You just want to add to the list.
That's all fair - but I am more asking how you, personally, are emotionally attached to this prospective title?
As a Duke fan, I can confirm this - I simply don't really care about the 2015 title team (Okafor, Winslow, Tyus Jones). Yawn.